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RE: Will you be playing this on Steam?

 
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RE: Will you be playing this on Steam? - 5/24/2014 12:24:37 PM   
Spidey


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I won't be playing on Steam. In part because it has its own problems, and in part because I just don't like the way the Steam-concept is implemented.

For one, Steam is a backdoor into your system that you've only got whatever control over that Valve allows you to have. I doubt it will get hacked anytime soon, but the occasional stealth update shows that Steam can force updates through without asking permission and regardless of your settings.

On top of that, you've got zero version control. Maybe you're afforded the luxury of holding out on an update here and now, but reinstalls are with the latest version and I could swear that I've read about cases of games where you simply can't play, not even offline, unless you activate online and patch up. This won't be critical in all games but there are situations where you lose saved games with serious time investments and there are times where patches actually hurt the game more than they help.

And Steam's answer to both those problems is essentially "go **** yourself", and if you make the mistake of complaining about it on their forums then you'll get swarmed with brats spewing nonsense about how consumer rights shouldn't be and all hail the mighty freaking Valve.

If that system appeals to you then fair enough. It doesn't appeal to me. I can patch my games manually just fine, I can mod my games manually just fine, and I sure can live without giving my money to Valve. If that means I can't buy certain games then that's really not my loss, is it?

Final thing, I do take some measure of offense from games that require online activation for offline play. And it pleases me when developers actually show me the respect of not treating me like a moron by stuffing the game they're hoping I'll like full of copy protection garbage that doesn't provide any value for me and also doesn't keep cracked versions off the pirate-infested shores of Sweden. That sort of respect and common courtesy makes me want to buy the game. The Steamworks DRM option? Not so much.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tree Dog

I hope you didn't forget to also open up your Task Manager and hunt down everything Windows runs that's not useful when playing DW.


I actually do this regularly out of general principle. Never did like having crapware running for no reason and you'd be amazed how many application designers suffer from the delusion that their particular load of crap really is important enough that it needs to start together with Windows.

(in reply to Tree Dog)
Post #: 31
RE: Will you be playing this on Steam? - 5/24/2014 12:32:01 PM   
Deathball

 

Posts: 117
Joined: 4/3/2012
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I hate DRM and avoid it wherever possible. Steam itself takes away control of the product you bought and forces updates down your throat and I can not see how any sane person could ever voluntarily surrender their rights like that. And Steam Workshop is in the same vein, it takes away your control and forces things on you without players having any say. I hope they will never support it, as it forces you to register your game with them before you can download and so any mods published there would be shut off from all those people who don't throw all their customer rights to the wind at the first promise of convenience.

(in reply to mbar)
Post #: 32
RE: Will you be playing this on Steam? - 5/24/2014 2:30:03 PM   
Buio


Posts: 247
Joined: 11/21/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Spidey
For one, Steam is a backdoor into your system that you've only got whatever control over that Valve allows you to have. I doubt it will get hacked anytime soon, but the occasional stealth update shows that Steam can force updates through without asking permission and regardless of your settings.
...etc...


Wow, what a load of hate and bile just for a gaming software platform. You creep me out.


(in reply to Spidey)
Post #: 33
RE: Will you be playing this on Steam? - 5/24/2014 3:54:48 PM   
Animorganimate

 

Posts: 7
Joined: 5/23/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tree Dog

quote:

ORIGINAL: Animorganimate

Steam is DRM.


Steam is a store.
Steamworks is DRM.



Semantics is fun.

I didn't start this thread to bash Steam or start a DRM war. I use Steam regularly, with nearly 200 games in my Library. But I also have few precious games that are DRM-free (a rarity now-a-days), and Distant Worlds was always one of those gems. I was just curious: since all of us are accustomed to not using a third-party program while playing Distant Worlds, who will now make the transition over to Steam since it's available and why.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tree Dog

I hope you didn't forget to also open up your Task Manager and hunt down everything Windows runs that's not useful when playing DW.



Actually, I do, and I think it should be a regular practice of anyone serious about maintaining a healthy PC.

(in reply to Tree Dog)
Post #: 34
RE: Will you be playing this on Steam? - 5/24/2014 4:05:43 PM   
solops

 

Posts: 704
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From: Central Texas
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Will you be playing this on Steam?

Abso-f-ing-lutely not. I have a Steam account and about 30 games there...but only because that is the only way to get them. Matrix has the BEST marketing model ever and that is how I will keep it.

< Message edited by solops -- 5/24/2014 5:12:20 PM >


_____________________________

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.-Edmund Burke
Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; if it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it.-Judge Learned Hand

(in reply to mbar)
Post #: 35
RE: Will you be playing this on Steam? - 5/24/2014 4:08:08 PM   
solops

 

Posts: 704
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From: Central Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Buio

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spidey
For one, Steam is a backdoor into your system that you've only got whatever control over that Valve allows you to have. I doubt it will get hacked anytime soon, but the occasional stealth update shows that Steam can force updates through without asking permission and regardless of your settings.
...etc...


Wow, what a load of hate and bile just for a gaming software platform. You creep me out.




Spidey is right.


_____________________________

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.-Edmund Burke
Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; if it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it.-Judge Learned Hand

(in reply to Buio)
Post #: 36
RE: Will you be playing this on Steam? - 5/24/2014 4:12:22 PM   
Bingeling

 

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I have some games on steam, and don't mind the platform. But I see absolutely no reason to play DW there.

(in reply to Animorganimate)
Post #: 37
RE: Will you be playing this on Steam? - 5/24/2014 4:14:49 PM   
solops

 

Posts: 704
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Central Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bingeling

I have some games on steam, and don't mind the platform. But I see absolutely no reason to play DW there.


You, Sir, are entirely too calm and reasonable in your response to a life-and-death-galaxy-shattering question.


_____________________________

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.-Edmund Burke
Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; if it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it.-Judge Learned Hand

(in reply to Bingeling)
Post #: 38
RE: Will you be playing this on Steam? - 5/24/2014 5:13:40 PM   
Spidey


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Joined: 12/8/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Buio

Wow, what a load of hate and bile just for a gaming software platform. You creep me out.


Just answering the question. I don't like Steam, at least not in its current form, and I believe that's my prerogative, just like it's yours to love Steam or to not love Justin Bieber or whatever. I went a bit above and beyond by providing this thing called "reasons", but then I figured I might have to, since so depressingly many people get upset if you don't just love Steam's hand-holding and railroading.

You're quite right that I have rather strong emotions on this topic, though. But I really don't like to be treated like a moron and I don't like Valve thinking it's their prerogative to mess around with my games on my system without even having the courtesy to ask for permission. That's just me, though. I've never really been good at submitting to that sort of authority.

(in reply to Buio)
Post #: 39
RE: Will you be playing this on Steam? - 5/24/2014 5:31:52 PM   
FingNewGuy


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From: Boulder, CO
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(in reply to Spidey)
Post #: 40
RE: Will you be playing this on Steam? - 5/24/2014 6:57:39 PM   
Darkspire


Posts: 1989
Joined: 6/12/2003
From: My Own Private Hell
Status: offline
My 50ps worth.

I do not like Steam, never have, never will, many games on there that I would like to have, like Anno 2070, X-Albion etc but it is the backdoor methods that my diplomatically challenged friend Spidey mentioned, I may be blonde and large but am more than capable of doing anything regards installing a game and installing mods, get stuck, ask uncle Google. Yes you can disable auto updates of any game in the settings on Steam but it is far to big a risk in this interconnected world to have a backdoor open that anyone can walk through if they so wish.

Steam Workshop, great for the lazy and those that can not be bothered to learn how to do things. DW really does not need the Steam Workshop, you can only have one theme running at once, download the zip into the customization folder, extract, job done, you can not have multiple themes running so having Steam Workshop for DW is overkill. The only thing I would agree on and would really like is that Matrix stepped up to the plate and offered a server to put all the uploads on, there are some great pieces of work done by folks on here and as time wears on the links go down, it would be great if we had somewhere to upload to that was official and the files could always be accessed.

Darkspire

_____________________________


(in reply to FingNewGuy)
Post #: 41
RE: Will you be playing this on Steam? - 5/24/2014 7:30:27 PM   
ehsumrell1


Posts: 2519
Joined: 8/17/2010
From: The Briar Patch Nebula
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darkspire

My 50ps worth.

I do not like Steam, never have, never will,....

Yes you can disable auto updates of any game in the settings on Steam but it is far to big a risk in this interconnected world to have a backdoor open that anyone can walk through if they so wish....

Steam Workshop, great for the lazy and those that can not be bothered to learn how to do things. DW really does not need the Steam Workshop, you can only have one theme running at once, download the zip into the customization folder, extract, job done, you can not have multiple themes running so having Steam Workshop for DW is overkill. The only thing I would agree on and would really like is that Matrix stepped up to the plate and offered a server to put all the uploads on, there are some great pieces of work done by folks on here and as time wears on the links go down, it would be great if we had somewhere to upload to that was official and the files could always be accessed.

Darkspire

Ditto.....

100% agree....

Well stated fellow team member!




_____________________________

Shields are useless in "The Briar Patch"...

(in reply to Darkspire)
Post #: 42
RE: Will you be playing this on Steam? - 5/24/2014 7:39:02 PM   
Darkspire


Posts: 1989
Joined: 6/12/2003
From: My Own Private Hell
Status: offline
Thank you ehsumrell1

That is why I created Darkspires's File Repository

I have two backups of all the files and the Mediafire account they are on is quick and easy to access, it is a shame that so much has been lost over the last few years

I made a community section on there so if folks wanted me to host them from my end there is not a problem and the work done is safe and secure and no one has to worry about the links going down.

Darkspire

_____________________________


(in reply to ehsumrell1)
Post #: 43
RE: Will you be playing this on Steam? - 5/24/2014 7:51:48 PM   
Animorganimate

 

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I just wanted to say, despite the polarizing opinions and emotions in this thread, I think we can all agree how awesome it is that Distant Worlds is getting the attention it deserves, and some of that is thanks to Steam. So despite your stance on the situation, at least the DW movement is spreading.

(in reply to Animorganimate)
Post #: 44
RE: Will you be playing this on Steam? - 5/24/2014 8:44:09 PM   
Flinkebeinchen


Posts: 109
Joined: 6/18/2013
From: Germany
Status: online
If they will ever get Steamworks to work its way better to get the mods you want then digging into wall of texts in the mod forum here. In Steamworks you can tag your mod like "more races" "sound overhaul" "total conversion" etc. This is total easy and even users who lack the ability to install a mod (yes they do exist!) can play mods this way.

I still don't get it.. why all the hate about Steam? It has pros and cons.

I like it and use it every day to stay in touch with friends, keep my screenshots and saves in the cloud (I lost every old screenshot and saves due a mainboard error that killed my HDD 3 years ago so I really like that feature) and the achievements aren't that bad either.. not that I really need them but its a way to measure my progress on a game.

_____________________________


(in reply to Animorganimate)
Post #: 45
RE: Will you be playing this on Steam? - 5/24/2014 9:14:04 PM   
Spidey


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"Diplomatically challenged", eh? Thanks! And I was trying real hard to be nice too, not calling anyone any names or anything. Fat lot of good that did, wasn't it?

Anyway, Flinke is probably right about Steam Workshop being easier to use, but then it also ties DW mods to Steam and Valve. And for those of us who don't really like either of those entities, being forced to use them isn't exactly nice. I'm happy to put money into DW but I can just about promise in advance that there's no game awesome enough to make me buy it through steam. I'm an angry ideologist, absolutely, and it's obviously not for everyone, but it generally works for me.

Why the hate, you ask? Well, I kind of don't want to repeat myself, since that might lead to more heated replies in defense, at which point we have a clusterfuck of a topic, but let's cut it down to me feeling that Valve doesn't respect me as a customer, and that Steam sort of stands for values I really don't like. I can't do a damn thing to change anything about it but I can at make a symbolic gesture of protest and not buy from people I don't like who runs a shop with values I also don't like.

Edit: If the Workshop was open to non-Steamers with an option to download the zipped package then it wouldn't be a problem, as Workshop would then just be an organized file host for those who don't want to be Steam-customers and a mod manager for those who do, but that's not how it works, is it?

< Message edited by Spidey -- 5/24/2014 10:18:32 PM >

(in reply to Flinkebeinchen)
Post #: 46
RE: Will you be playing this on Steam? - 5/24/2014 9:45:48 PM   
Osito


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My own perspective on Steam is that I 'tolerate' it, but I don't love it. I totally understand the views of those who don't like it, and when I was younger I would have probably taken the same view. I've played the 'age' card a couple of times recently, but it does mellow you to certain things, and maybe that's good or maybe it's bad, but I don't really care about whether Steam 'owns' all my stuff because I realise I won't be around to own it myself for all that much longer.

Phew ... anyway, regarding the 'SW' (Steam Workshop), I did post above that I would play the game on Steam if it had SW 'functionality'. But after thinking about it a bit more, I'm having serious doubts about whether SW is remotely appropriate for this game. The problem is that many of the mods are going to conflict with each other. For example, take Haree78's excellent 'extended' mod. If anyone mods their resources, components or techs, it's likely to conflict with Haree's work. Many mods will conflict with other mods, owing to the way that the modding process works.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad the modding is here, but I don't think it is a great system for integrating mods which are doing slightly different things.

I'm slowly coming to the view that the best long term option is the development of DW2, but in the meantime I'll take all the DW1 love I can get.

Osito

(in reply to Spidey)
Post #: 47
RE: Will you be playing this on Steam? - 5/24/2014 9:48:45 PM   
Darkspire


Posts: 1989
Joined: 6/12/2003
From: My Own Private Hell
Status: offline
quote:

"Diplomatically challenged", eh? Thanks! And I was trying real hard to be nice too, not calling anyone any names or anything. Fat lot of good that did, wasn't it?


The moment anyone mentions the S***M word round here WWIII breaks out, I am so used to seeing constructive discussions and posts from your good self that to see you blowing a valve (see what I did there?) was most amusing and had to be responded to

I hope our new members from the dark side, sorry S***M, will bear with us, no offense is meant and in all honesty with DWU being on there now, hopefully, things will calm down a bit, and it will no longer be a bone of contention here on our corner of the galaxy.

Darkspire

_____________________________


(in reply to Spidey)
Post #: 48
RE: Will you be playing this on Steam? - 5/24/2014 9:51:04 PM   
Osito


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darkspire

quote:

"Diplomatically challenged", eh? Thanks! And I was trying real hard to be nice too, not calling anyone any names or anything. Fat lot of good that did, wasn't it?


The moment anyone mentions the S***M word round here WWIII breaks out, I am so used to seeing constructive discussions and posts from your good self that to see you blowing a valve (see what I did there?) was most amusing and had to be responded to

I hope our new members from the dark side, sorry S***M, will bear with us, no offense is meant and in all honesty with DWU being on there now, hopefully, things will calm down a bit, and it will no longer be a bone of contention here on our corner of the galaxy.

Darkspire


You have to keep in mind that a lot of people are frightened of Spideys.

(in reply to Darkspire)
Post #: 49
RE: Will you be playing this on Steam? - 5/24/2014 9:55:00 PM   
Darkspire


Posts: 1989
Joined: 6/12/2003
From: My Own Private Hell
Status: offline
quote:

You have to keep in mind that a lot of people are frightened of Spideys.




Darkspire

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Post #: 50
RE: Will you be playing this on Steam? - 5/24/2014 10:13:41 PM   
Drexy

 

Posts: 2
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Yes i love steam, i rub it on my face every morning, i love being backdoored, DWU 7th on the steam chart, a great game finally getting some recognition, dev finally getting paid for years of work, silly hipster steam haters no longer can feel special by being part of an elite few whose played DW

(in reply to Darkspire)
Post #: 51
RE: Will you be playing this on Steam? - 5/24/2014 10:18:47 PM   
Darkspire


Posts: 1989
Joined: 6/12/2003
From: My Own Private Hell
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Drexy

Yes i love steam, i rub it on my face every morning, i love being backdoored, DWU 7th on the steam chart, a great game finally getting some recognition, dev finally getting paid for years of work, silly hipster steam haters no longer can feel special by being part of an elite few whose played DW


And you wonder why we dislike Steam ...

Darkspire

_____________________________


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Post #: 52
RE: Will you be playing this on Steam? - 5/25/2014 1:24:50 AM   
Scrove

 

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Absolutely, in fact if I have a choice of having a game on steam or from another source I'll generally go with steam over the other choice for convenience sake. Would love for the mods to come to steam as well, that way it's a one stop shop and I no longer have to check if they are updated, simply get them updated when they are.

With it being on the featured games list on top of the store page and 6th place seller atm it's great to see that the game is getting more recognition. This will hopefully bring in more modders for more mods. It's great for publicity's sake if nothing else.

(in reply to Darkspire)
Post #: 53
RE: Will you be playing this on Steam? - 5/25/2014 1:35:41 AM   
pycco

 

Posts: 345
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lol steam severs is purpose. its what was needed and still is to ensure the copyright goods of games. remember the early 2000's why buy a game when a morals-less person can get it from mega share for free.

as for mods on steam those modders are signing over the rights to ideas and images and such to steam when they put it on steam workshop.

< Message edited by pycco -- 5/25/2014 2:37:16 AM >

(in reply to Scrove)
Post #: 54
RE: Will you be playing this on Steam? - 5/25/2014 2:48:12 AM   
flanyboy

 

Posts: 1453
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Yes

(in reply to mbar)
Post #: 55
RE: Will you be playing this on Steam? - 5/25/2014 2:58:13 AM   
Buio


Posts: 247
Joined: 11/21/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Spidey
Just answering the question. I don't like Steam, at least not in its current form, and I believe that's my prerogative, just like it's yours to love Steam or to not love Justin Bieber or whatever. I went a bit above and beyond by providing this thing called "reasons", but then I figured I might have to, since so depressingly many people get upset if you don't just love Steam's hand-holding and railroading.

You're quite right that I have rather strong emotions on this topic, though. But I really don't like to be treated like a moron and I don't like Valve thinking it's their prerogative to mess around with my games on my system without even having the courtesy to ask for permission. That's just me, though. I've never really been good at submitting to that sort of authority.


Not really, you could just have said "I don't like Steam, I play the standalone Matrix version" but instead ranted.

I overreacted with my reply, but I'm not a fan of hate posts.

So how do you feel about having to run the game on Windows with Microsoft in charge and no alternatives? I mean, they aren't shy of cooperating with NSA, and they supported the SOPA. Just to mention two things. Yes, there are no alternatives, but in my opinion Microsoft is a much larger and controlling "bad guy" compared to Valve/Steam.

(in reply to Spidey)
Post #: 56
RE: Will you be playing this on Steam? - 5/25/2014 3:01:35 AM   
ASHBERY76


Posts: 2083
Joined: 10/10/2001
From: England
Status: offline
Hey guys are steam achievements working? I am playing a theme and do not seem to get any.

_____________________________


(in reply to Buio)
Post #: 57
RE: Will you be playing this on Steam? - 5/25/2014 3:23:55 AM   
Buio


Posts: 247
Joined: 11/21/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76
Hey guys are steam achievements working? I am playing a theme and do not seem to get any.


No, they don't. They did report on the Steam forum they are looking into it.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/261470/discussions/1/540742667310076717/

(in reply to ASHBERY76)
Post #: 58
RE: Will you be playing this on Steam? - 5/25/2014 12:19:40 PM   
Spidey


Posts: 399
Joined: 12/8/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Buio
Not really, you could just have said "I don't like Steam, I play the standalone Matrix version" but instead ranted.

I overreacted with my reply, but I'm not a fan of hate posts.

So how do you feel about having to run the game on Windows with Microsoft in charge and no alternatives? I mean, they aren't shy of cooperating with NSA, and they supported the SOPA. Just to mention two things. Yes, there are no alternatives, but in my opinion Microsoft is a much larger and controlling "bad guy" compared to Valve/Steam.

I could've said a lot of things, absolutely. But I still just answered the question. And then you hand-waved my reasons away as irrelevant bile and called me a creep, which strikes me as a generally odd reaction from someone who isn't a fan of hate posts.

Regarding your question, I would actually agree that MS is a bigger "bad guy" than Valve but what has that got to do with anything? This topic isn't about MS, is it? And MS being bigger dicks than Valve doesn't even begin to imply that Valve aren't also dicks, does it? Should I pretend they're not dicks because they're not the biggest dicks alive? What kind of general principle is that based on? Do you use it in all aspects of life or does it only apply to Valve?

(in reply to Buio)
Post #: 59
RE: Will you be playing this on Steam? - 5/25/2014 2:14:21 PM   
Gregorovitch55

 

Posts: 191
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Spidey, what you say about Steam DRM being a gross intrusion on your machine etc is true - it is - but there is another side to this that I think you need to consider that balances the equation somewhat.

What's happening now is something like this: thousands of people are noticing DW on the Steam front page and going roughly through the following process:

Hey, this is a new space game, I like space games
No it's not a new space game it's an old space game, wtf don't I know about it then, and why are people buying it?
[reads some reviews]
Hmm. This looks like it might be quite good.
[looks up some more reactions to DW]
Hmm. This looks like one of those "best games you've never heard of" type of thing.
[notices the price]
*cough* *choke* *splutter*
[checks out maybe Quill's vid, maybe one of Das's]
OK, I'm convinced........

This would never have happened without Steam.
This is bad because?


(in reply to Spidey)
Post #: 60
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