First Impressions - Bombur's mod 1930

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First Impressions - Bombur's mod 1930 - 5/20/2014 10:21:13 PM

Gregory Wilmoth

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These are my first impressions after starting a pair of randomly generated games using Bombur�s mod1930 v0.30. In each I am playing solitaire against two other AI powers using a large map.

In the first game, I am Nippon (Japanese) against the Holy Roman Empire (Italian) and Albion (British). The game started in 1936, and both the AI powers quickly declared war on me. In the second I am The Empire (British) against the Sun Empire (Japanese) and the Eastern Empire (Russian). This game started in 1934, and this time the two AI powers quickly declared war on each other.

The first thing I realized as I examined my forces and production options is that in 1930mod crew served weapons are subsumed into various types of riflemen and submachine gunners. No longer are there any separate machine guns or mortars to produce and distribute as in generic ATG or GD1838.

Light Rifle I represents riflemen solely armed with bolt action rifles�no machine guns or heavy weapons. Rifle I adds light machine guns, but no heavy weapons. Heavy Rifle I includes light machine guns at the squad level and adds heavy weapons (machine guns and mortars) at the company level. Heavy AT Rifle I throws anti-tank rifles into the mix. There are also generally equivalent SFTs for submachine guns instead of bolt action rifles. The end result is a variety of infantry SFTs with different combat statistics and production costs.

A second big difference is that technologies in 1930mod generally are not available for purchase. They are assigned by year, and they simply show up available for purchase by the appropriate power in the January turn of their assigned year.

A third big difference is that the technologies in 1930mod differ greatly from the generic ATG technologies and to a lesser extent from GD1938 technologies. As in GD1938 they generally reflect the historical equipment available to the various major powers of the era. However I�ve been offered the chance to produce several items that are not on the list of SFTs for GD1938. For example, as a British power in mod1930, I have the option to buy the Birch gun, an early British self-propelled gun. That weapon is not in the list of SFTs for GD1938. Another example is trucks. In mod1930, all I can purchase is a generic truck (at least so far). In GD1938 players can purchase small, medium and large trucks.

Perhaps the most striking difference I�ve noticed about mod1930 versus generic ATG and GD1930 is the limited intelligence of ground units regarding enemy ground units. In mod1930 units made up of infantry SFTs can be adjacent to enemy units and not see them. In the first game I�m playing, in which I�m already engaged in combat, I have repeatedly blundered into invisible enemy units. I�ve quickly learned the importance of cavalry, which do allow me to see otherwise hidden units which are within a few hexes of them.

There are other differences I�ve noticed, and I�m sure there will be more as I play longer. So far the AI managing the enemy powers I�m fighting seems about as competent as it is in a generic ATG game. It will be interesting to see how it fares as the weapons get more complex. I�ll try and post more comments as I get further along.

Post #: 1

RE: First Impressions - Bombur's mod 1930 - 5/21/2014 1:15:18 AM

cpdeyoung

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Thank you so much for this evaluation. I will be very interested to see what comes up next.

Chuck

(in reply to Gregory Wilmoth)

Post #: 2

RE: First Impressions - Bombur's mod 1930 - 5/21/2014 6:40:48 AM

Josh

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From: Leeuwarden, Netherlands
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Thx for the review.

"...Perhaps the most striking difference I�ve noticed about mod1930 versus generic ATG and GD1930 is the limited intelligence of ground units regarding enemy ground units. In mod1930 units made up of infantry SFTs can be adjacent to enemy units and not see them. In the first game I�m playing, in which I�m already engaged in combat, I have repeatedly blundered into invisible enemy units. I�ve quickly learned the importance of cavalry, which do allow me to see otherwise hidden units which are within a few hexes of them..."

Haven't played this version yet so wasn't aware of it. In other versions one sort of knew something was "out there" but you didn't know what exactly. So yeah this seems to be an improvement, you *have* to reconnoiter your frontlines. Long live the Uhlanen

(in reply to cpdeyoung)

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RE: First Impressions - Bombur's mod 1930 - 5/23/2014 9:06:35 PM

Gregory Wilmoth

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Even when you can't see enemy units, you can see the frontier control line move as the enemy advances. (Is that the right term for the white and orange dotted line that marks the boundary of the hexes you control?) But unless you can actually see the units, you can't tell if the lead unit has backed up, or if another one is following behind it. The temptation is there to try and surround the unit that moved, but outguessing the AI on this has been futile. Using nearby cavalry to not only see the enemy units, but to see how strong they are makes a big difference.

(in reply to Josh)

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RE: First Impressions - Bombur's mod 1930 - 5/27/2014 1:43:47 AM

Bombur

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The tech tree was greatly simplified in order to make the game AI compatible, since the AI is clearly unable to research complex chains of technology.

(in reply to Gregory Wilmoth)

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RE: First Impressions - Bombur's mod 1930 - 5/27/2014 3:06:22 AM

Twotribes

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Well I deleted all my bombur 1930 files had a bunch from the old versions. And now it works again, I guess one of the old ones had corrupted files?

(in reply to Bombur)

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RE: First Impressions - Bombur's mod 1930 - 6/11/2014 2:39:17 AM

Gregory Wilmoth

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Well, things are getting back to normal now that the Consimworld Expo is done out here in Arizona. Before I resume my test games, I thought people might find it interesting to hear about some of the equipment available for purchase early in Bombur�s mod1930 v0.30. As I mentioned before, I�m playing two trial games against AI opponents. In one game I am Nippon, a Japanese power. In the other, I am The Empire, a British power.

The game where I�m Nippon started in 1936. In January of 1937 and 1938 new equipment appeared. Now it's June, 1938. Currently I can build the following ship types:
Battleships: BB Nagato, BB Fuso, BB Kongo
Cruisers: CA Aoba, CA Myoko, CL Tenryu
Destroyers: DD Fubuki
Aircraft Carriers: CA Akagi, Light Carrier
Submarines: Type J1, WWI Submarine
MTB (motor torpedo boat)
Raider (an armed merchant ship)
Troop Transport I
Cargoship

All these ships, of course, have different construction costs. The structural rating of my capital city is 16,000 points. Using half of that, I can build one tenth of a Fuso class battleship per turn. The same amount of construction capacity can build 2.8 Fubuki class destroyers, or 25 MTBs per turn.

In shopping for aircraft, here are my options:
Fighter 1926
Lt. Bomber 1921
Naval Fighter 1928
Naval Patrol 1929
Torp. Bomber 1926
Bomber 1925
A5M (single-engined naval fighter, Allied code name: Claude)
B4Y1 (single-engined carrier-based naval attack bomber, Allied code name Jean)
G3M2 (two-engined naval land based bomber, Allied code name Nell)
H6K4 (four-engined naval flying boat, Allied code name Mavis)
Ki-15 (single-engined army reconnaissance plane, Allied code name Babs)
Ki-20 (four-engined army bomber, variant of 1920s era Junkers G.38 airliner)
Ki-21 I (two-engined army heavy bomber, Allied code name Sally)
Ki-27 (single-engined army fighter, Allied code name Nate)

All of the �generic� airplanes are biplanes and obviously models from the 1920s. The Ki-20 is a monoplane, but the picture looks similar to a Soviet TB-3 in that it has long, thick wings. As with ships, the cost of building the different types of aircraft varies widely.

There are fewer choices for vehicles. My options include:
Armoured Car I
Halftrack
Rail Gun
Train
Truck
Type 89 (a tank of 12.8 metric tons with a 57mm main gun)
Type 95 Ha-Go (a tank of 7.5 metric tons with a 37mm main gun)
Type 98 Halftrack

It�s interesting that the Rail Gun is included here rather than under artillery. It�s self-propelled, so I suppose it fits under vehicles as well as it does under artillery.

I�ll skip the artillery in the interests of brevity and move on to my other game where I�m a British power.

In the game where I�m The Empire, it�s now August 1936. These are the ship types I can build:
Battleships: BB Queen Elizabeth
Battlecruisers: BC Renown
Cruisers: CA Hawkins, CL Danae
Destroyers: DD Class C
Aircraft Carriers: CV Courageous, Light Carrier
Submarines: SS Triton
MTB (motor torpedo boat)
Raider (an armed merchant ship)
Troop Transport I
Cargoship

It�s rather surprising that the only British cruisers available are both from the World War I era. During the 1920s the Royal Navy built over a dozen County class heavy cruisers. In the early 1930s they built eight small Leander class light cruisers. By 1936 the first of ten Town class large light cruisers were being launched. It�s also surprising that the BB Nelson isn�t available, given the fact a Japanese player has the option of building a 16 inch gun BB Nagato. Well, there�s always room to quibble.

On the aircraft menu, I find the following choices:
Bomber 1925
Torp. Bomber 1926
Naval Patrol 1929
Anson (two-engined multi-role aircraft)
Gauntlet (single-engined biplane fighter)
HP Heyford (two-engined biplane bomber)
Hawker Hart (single-engined biplane bomber)
Nimrod (single-engined biplane naval fighter)
Swordfish (single-engined biplane torpedo bomber)

Overall, a smaller selection than for the Japanese player. Perhaps the British arsenal is still under development.

My choices for vehicles are fewer, too:
Rail Gun
Train
Truck
Carden Loyd (a tankette armed with a machine gun)
Lanchester (an armored car armed with machine guns)
Vickers MkVI (a tank of 4.9 metric tons armed with machine guns)

Again I�ll skip artillery. The choices for the Japanese and British player are almost identical. The only difference is that as a British player I can build a 40mm AA gun that I can�t choose as a Japanese player�at least at this point in time.

All in all, very interesting. While I would like to see more ship choices for a British player in the mid-1930s, my hat�s off to Balbur and anyone who helped him put this together. For a military technology geek, this is light years ahead of the standard ATG. I�ll let you know what shows up after a few more turns of the calendar.

(in reply to Twotribes)

Post #: 7

RE: First Impressions - Bombur's mod 1930 - 6/11/2014 4:40:02 AM

Twotribes

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3 tanks for the Japanese are incorrectly assigned to the Italians. 2 Are tankettes I believe and the third is either a light tank or TANK.

(in reply to Gregory Wilmoth)

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RE: First Impressions - Bombur's mod 1930 - 6/11/2014 5:34:30 PM

Gregory Wilmoth

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I haven't had a chance to see the Italian force options yet. Are the tanks labeled on the menu as Italian tanks, and then you produce the Japanese ones? Or are they labeled as Japanese tanks from the get-go? Could be a mistake, or could be a place-holder. Maybe Bombur isn't done yet. I can understand not finishing the details of the tech menu when you're not sure if the AI will work or not.

(in reply to Twotribes)

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RE: First Impressions - Bombur's mod 1930 - 6/11/2014 8:19:48 PM

Twotribes

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They are Japanese he just accidentally assigned them to Italy in the item list. The nomenclature and the write up are all for japan.

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RE: First Impressions - Bombur's mod 1930 - 6/13/2014 6:41:18 PM

Bombur

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This feature will be corrected. I resumed work in the mod

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RE: First Impressions - Bombur's mod 1930 - 6/13/2014 6:45:10 PM

Bombur

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The list of equipment is a work in progress, I accept suggestions. The Nelson class and the 1920�s cruisers for the RN will be created.

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RE: First Impressions - Bombur's mod 1930 - 6/13/2014 8:08:05 PM

Twotribes

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No complaints Bombur just informing the person of the problems I found, I listed the ones I know about in the thread for the mod. Love your mod.

(in reply to Bombur)

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RE: First Impressions - Bombur's mod 1930 - 6/14/2014 6:03:41 PM

Gregory Wilmoth

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Aerial Reconnaissance

I mentioned before the difficulty of most infantry units seeing what�s right in front of them, and the importance of cavalry in shedding some light on the subject. Aerial reconnaissance is another way to do it.

In my game as Nippon, I�ve been using the Japanese Ki-15 (Allied code-named �Babs�) to do some aerial scouting. The procedure seems to be identical to that of standard ATG. You pick a hex within range, push the Air Recon button, and what is at and around the hex is revealed. I can�t be sure, but it seems to use the same three-hex radius for searching as in the standard game.

What you see remains revealed only for that turn. It�s a little like playing standard ATG with a shroud, but you can�t see the shroud. Units behind it are invisible. You just see empty hexes.

I�ve been flying the missions using units with both three and four planes. The number of �recce points� expended changes, but I can�t detect any difference in what they see. Perhaps the four-ship missions have more granularity�i.e. more accurate information. I can�t tell yet.

Someone elsewhere commented they�d like to see aerial reconnaissance missions flown and reveal information the way they are done in the real world. In other words, they shouldn�t just reveal what�s under a circle with a three-hex radius, but rather they ought to reveal everything in a long wedge-shaped triangle with the apex at the aircraft�s home base.

That would be nice, but I imagine it would require a change to the underlying game engine. I�m sure it�s beyond the ability of the scenario generator. As far as I know, only two computer wargames handle it that way. One is SSG�s Carriers at War, and the other is/was the now-defunct SSI�s Carrier Strike.

One final point. The range of some of the aircraft in Bombur�s 1930 mod seems very long compared to standard ATG. The Ki-15s I�m using can fly 25 hexes from their home base. Now admittedly they�re specialized reconnaissance aircraft, with a secondary role as light bombers. Just don't be surprised. I�m also flying Ki-21-I bombers (Allied code name "Sally"), which can only reach 20 hexes from their base. I haven�t built any fighters yet, as the AI hasn�t deployed any aircraft yet to defend against. Perhaps their range, as generally was the case for fighters in the 1930s, will be much shorter.

(in reply to Twotribes)

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RE: First Impressions - Bombur's mod 1930 - 6/16/2014 4:16:08 PM

Gregory Wilmoth

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Artillery

Here�s a little surprise: artillery in Bombur�s 1930 mod only has a range of one hex. You have to be adjacent to an enemy unit to bombard it. Or at least that is the range for artillery in the early 1930s.

In an earlier post I neglected to list the available artillery, so let me do that now. As Nippon (the test game where I�m at war), in 1939, I have the following artillery choices:
105mm Gun
20mm AA Gun
37mm AT Gun
40mm AA Gun
75mm Field Gun
Coastal Guns I
Coastal Guns II
Coastal Guns III
Heavy Guns
Infantry Gun I

The options above are listed in the order they appear on the screen, which is numerical and then alphabetical. Coastal guns are fixed guns for coastal defense. Per their descriptions, Coastal Guns I are 6 to 8 inch (152mm to 203mm) naval guns, Coastal Guns II are 10 to 12 inch (254mm to 305mm) naval guns, and Coastal Guns III are 14 to 16 inch (356mm to 406mm) naval guns. Heavy Guns are described as heavy artillery over 155mm. The Infantry Gun I is described as a support weapon, such as 37mm guns like the Japanese Type 11, or the French 1916 TRP.

As The Empire (British) in my other game, in 1936, my artillery choices are the same.

Artillery moves faster when pulled by horses, but it appears that I need one horse per gun rather than one horse per two guns as in the standard ATG. Putting a pair of Infantry Guns Is in an infantry unit seems to give it an extra punch on attack. A battery of six 75mm guns can kill a few infantry factors, but one of six 105mm guns does a bit better. Four guns of heavy artillery seem to do about the same as the six 105s. None are devastating, but they help soften up an enemy battlestack for a ground attack.

And then we have the Rail gun. The Rail gun is described as �very heavy artillery pieces mounted on rail wagons.� As I mentioned earlier, in the production menus the Rail gun is found under vehicles rather than under artillery. If you transfer one into a unit by itself, you�ll see a silhouette of a locomotive. It can only move along rail lines. Perhaps because of its categorization as a vehicle, it cannot be produced by a Gun Factory. But the biggest surprise is that it has a range of zero�it cannot bombard an adjacent hex. It has to attack like a ground unit, and in the attack I launched, it was destroyed just as an attacking ground unit might be.

So far the only design issue I would raise with artillery is the range. Artillery effectiveness, while perhaps less than in the standard ATG game, does not seem unreasonable. But it seems to me that the range, especially for the Rail gun, should be increased. (Incidentally, the Combat Stats for the coastal guns show they all have a range of one hex, too.)

I don�t know what the scale for each hex in Bombur�s 1930 mod is meant to be. That, of course, would determine the range. I can understand how a 75mm gun might only shoot into an adjacent hex. Perhaps a 105mm could only reach the next hex too. But I would think guns over 150mm, and especially the Rail gun, and the bigger coastal guns, should be able to reach two, or even three hexes away.

It would also be nice to be able to build a Rail gun in a Gun Factory. I wonder if it could be coded in a way similar to Heavy Artillery in the standard ATG so that it could only be pulled by a locomotive. That would make it more costly to build and move, but it�s a special piece.

But wait! Silhouette of a locomotive . . . moves only on railroads . . . attacks like a ground unit . . . can�t be built in a gun factory . . . could the Rail gun really be an armored train?

(in reply to Gregory Wilmoth)

Post #: 15

RE: First Impressions - Bombur's mod 1930 - 6/16/2014 6:04:36 PM

Jeffrey H.

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Time and space scale are a little bit screwy IMHO when a mod like this is taken into a random game format.

_____________________________

History began July 4th, 1776. Anything before that was a mistake.

Ron Swanson

(in reply to Gregory Wilmoth)

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RE: First Impressions - Bombur's mod 1930 - 6/16/2014 8:21:33 PM

Twotribes

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The size 20 guns can be split amongst horses it appears. A horse has a carry of 30, 3 horses can carry 4 guns of 20 size. Also the size 20 Infantry appear to work the same way amongst vehicle carry. In other words 2 Half tracks of 50 carry each could carry 5 size 20 Infantry.

(in reply to Jeffrey H.)

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RE: First Impressions - Bombur's mod 1930 - 6/17/2014 1:27:56 AM

Gregory Wilmoth

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Interesting. I'll have to experiment and try that out. Thanks.

Is there a guide or a key explaining the different inputs for General Stats and Combat Stats for STFs?

(in reply to Twotribes)

Post #: 18

RE: First Impressions - Bombur's mod 1930 - 6/30/2014 8:09:51 PM

Gregory Wilmoth

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1939 Buying Guide

Well, in my test game where I�m playing The Empire, I�m now at war with one of the AI powers. The Eastern Empire (Russian) declared war on me. It must have gotten bored fighting the other AI power. In any event, I�m glad they both didn�t decide to gang up on me, because I�ve had my hands full dealing with the massive human wave attacks the Eastern Empire is launching. The air and artillery don�t seem to have the same devastating effects on massed infantry in open terrain as in the standard game. Granted, the aircraft are still early to mid-1930s vintage, but the description for Heavy Guns say they�re modeled on the American �Long Tom,� a 1938 vintage 155mm field gun used in WWII and the Korean War. I would think they would have more punch.

One other thing I noticed was that I was losing supplies and trucks on the front facing the AI power I was at peace with. The notices said I was losing them to �CAP� and �Enemy Air and Naval activity.� The aircraft ranges are long enough that planes of the Eastern Empire could have reached the area, but the odd thing was there were no similar losses on either of the two other fronts where I was actively fighting the Eastern Empire. Could there be a bug that allows an AI power one is at peace with to interdict one�s supplies?

In any event, I�ve now made it to 1939 in both my test games, and I thought I�d share what new weapons technologies are available.

For The Empire (British), here are the changes:

Artillery: no changes

Ships: no changes

Aircraft: All the old aircraft are still available, and over the years the following new ones showed up.
Blenheim (two-engined monoplane light bomber)
Fairey Battle (single-engined monoplane attack bomber)
Hurricane I (single-engined monoplane fighter)
Spitfire MkI (single engine monomplane fighter)
Whitley (twin-engined monoplane medium bomber)

Vehicles: New items here too.
A9 (the first Cruiser tank; 12 tons armed with a 40mm gun and machine guns)
Halftrack
Matilda I (an early infantry support tank; 11 tons armed with a single heavy machine gun)
Medium MkII (an early medium tanks; 12 tons armed with a 47mm gun and machine guns)
Vickers MkVI (a light tank; 5 tons armed with machine guns)

Newer British ships are conspicuous by their absence. In addition to the cruiser types from the 1920s and early 30s I mentioned in an earlier post (County class of heavy cruisers, e.g HMS Norfolk; Leander class of light cruisers; and Town class of light cruisers, e.g. HMS Southampton), by the late 1930s the Dido class of anti-aircraft light cruisers were under construction. The namesake ship of a new class of battleships, the King George V, was laid down in 1937 and completed in 1940. The first two ships of the Lion class were laid down in 1939, although war demands led to their suspension, and they were never finished. The late 1930s also saw the first of the Tribal class of powerful new destroyers laid down (e.g. HMS Cossack). The Triton (�T� class submarine) is by its own description a late-1930s class. Perhaps the �S� class submarines (e.g. HMS Sturgeon) should be added. They were smaller submarines first built in the early 1930s.

For Nippon (Japanese) in the other test game I�m playing, here are the changes:

Artillery: no changes

Ships: All earlier existing types are still with the following exception.
DD Fubuki has been replaced by DD Kagero
CV Shokaku is now available

Aircraft: Earlier existing ones are still there plus the following two new ones.
B5N2 (single-engined monoplane carrier torpedo bomber, Allied code name: Kate)
D3A1 (single engine monoplane carrier dive bomber, Allied code name: Val)

Vehicles: no changes

BTW, I commented earlier about the long ranges of the bomber and reconnaissance aircraft in the games. I speculated that the ranges of the 1930s era fighters would be much shorter. They are.

As with the British ships, I can think of some suggestions for Japanese ships, but I hesitate to make them without knowing what Bombur�s goals and limitations are for the SFTs in the mod. Here are a few questions I�d like to ask him:

1. Variety. How many different types of SFTs do you want for each nationality? Are you working with an upper limit? Do you have limits or guidelines within a nationality for each category (i.e. aircraft, ships, artillery, vehicles, etc.)? Are you trying to include as many historical SFTs as possible (of ships, aircraft and vehicles), or are you just looking for major representative types?

2. Timing. What year do you want new types to become available for production? When a prototype was first produced? When they first became operational? (That is perhaps best for vehicles, artillery and aircraft, since they have relatively short production times.) In the case of ships, I know that shipyards in the game can produce a large ship faster than in real life. Should a naval SFT become available the year the first of its type was laid down? Launched? Commissioned?

3. Planned but not produced. Do you want to include SFTs for equipment that was planned but not produced? (Typically this would be for specific equipment types such as aircraft, artillery, ships, or vehicles, although aggregated SFTs like Rifle could involve upgrades with infantry weapons never produced.) If so, do you want to limit it to types where production actually began? (Prototypes actually produced, and ships where a keel was actually laid�like the British Lion class battleships.) What about design studies where the equipment type was advanced enough to get a designation (e.g. U.S. Montana class battleships, or Japanese G10N1 six-engined strategic bombers)? Do you want an estimate on when production (or construction) would have started?

BTW, thanks to TwoTribes for his explanation on the relationship between a horse�s lift capacity and the weight of artillery and infantry. It seems to work out as he explained. And it�s a much more realistic ratio for how many horses can move a body of men.

(in reply to Gregory Wilmoth)

Post #: 19