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Early War Bomber Usuage (Allies)

 
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Early War Bomber Usuage (Allies) - 5/15/2014 12:30:36 PM   
Chuske


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Hi,

Been trying to get back up to speed with WITP:AE after nearly 2 year break and forgotten so much!

Anyway using Sardauker's guides and Kull's allied setup spreadsheet + Greyjoys AARs my plan from Dec 41 is use bombers in following roles:-

  • 4E Bombers (B17s etc) start off on Naval search at 6k, later when have them massed in Oz and india can use them as airfield busters

  • 2E bombers except Marauders and Mitchells naval search/ASW, later use thebetter ones on ground attack

  • Marauders and Mitchells train for low level naval attack

  • Bolos and Wirraways mainly used in dedicated training groups

  • Torpedo and Dive Bombers naval attack obviously



    Questions:-

    1) Should I bother training any bomber crews for Ground attack, port or airfield attacks now (start of GC Dec41) or leave that till later when I have my search and ASW crews trained?

    2) Is it better to focus Catalinas and other search planes on search and 2E bombers on ASW or is it better to mix up the roles? At moment I'm not sure if particular flight characteristics and weapon loads suit these two roles more specifically or if a good search plane is always a good ASW plane.

    3) Would I be right in thinking that ideal setup is having both naval search and ASW at a base even if its a WC base where I'm only likely to see subs? ie Does a combination of both help me see subs better than just ASW.

    4) For training for search and ASW is it worth having 100% training groups or better just to have all groups actually on active duty (as they'll gain experience actually searching) with a training % set? If so does the training % train the main mission (eg naval search) or just general training (eg just exp)?

    5) In the Phillipines and Malaya I'm going to be under attack straight away and unsure how to use the level bombers at those places? Do I stick with search missions or do I set naval attack or ground attack to contest the landings? I'm a bit wary of losing the B17 groups as even tho only D variant I can upgrade them and use in India or Oz, so I'm debating how to use them and how quickly to get them out to Darwin or India to train /upgrade?

    < Message edited by jonboym -- 5/17/2014 9:13:23 PM >


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    RE: Early War Bomber Usuage (Allies) - 5/15/2014 3:07:18 PM   
    Erkki


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    Regarding NavS and ASW: they both find and attack submarines. ASW is more effective at hitting subs but it halves the range(normal) and uses the ASW skill.

    ts good to both know where enemy submarines lurk, keep them detected as well as of course hit them with naval and aerial ASW. Directly you are helped by submarines encountering escorts more and attacking actual targets less if they have a detection level, and indirectly you can order your ships and convoys to try to go around the subs. ASW actually hurts them so they die or need to spend a month or two on their way home and in repairs, but both naval ASW and AASW are more effective if you have search aircraft keeping the subs in sight and tracked. So you most likely want to mix NavS and ASW even if enemy surface units arent expected even remotely near the base in question.

    (in reply to Chuske)
    Post #: 2
    RE: Early War Bomber Usuage (Allies) - 5/15/2014 3:51:19 PM   
    Chuske


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    Thanks you confirmed what I already thought was most likely, so as long as you have enough AV and airfield size having both a search and ASW group is optimum anti-sub strategy until start getting more decent ASW ships later on

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    Post #: 3
    RE: Early War Bomber Usuage (Allies) - 5/15/2014 4:47:27 PM   
    crsutton


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    You will need your bombers in a multitude of roles and need to train them accordingly. You do not have enough patrol planes at start so naval search is a help for the first year of the war. You have some experienced pilots in the PI. Pull those valuable units out and train the them for search. After that, Army bombers should not be used for that purpose. A little ASW training at first helps but becomes less important after 4/42 when your DDs become much more effective. By the end of 42 you will have enough sub killing ships that you really only need your air for searching. Early in the war, I would train for ground bombing first and then add low naval for your mediums as you get the chance. Don't worry about low ground until you have attack bombers. Regular bombers only carry half a bomb load below 6k and are just as effective from that altitude. In the end, I would say that 80% of my bomber missions are ground or base bombing from above 6,000 feet. That right there tells me what I need to train in.

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    Post #: 4
    RE: Early War Bomber Usuage (Allies) - 5/16/2014 10:38:27 PM   
    jmalter

     

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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: jonboym
  • Marauders and Mitchells train for low level naval attack

  • Only Attack Bombers can take full advantage of LowG or LowN, other types can only use half of their bomb load on low-level missions.

    ABs (All USArmy UNO):
    A-20A1 Havoc
    A-20G Havoc
    A-20G Boston (Aus)
    B-25D1 Mitchell
    B-25G Mitchell
    B-25H Mitchell
    B-25J11 Mitchell
    PBJ-1H (USNavy)

    ABs will take fairly stiff losses from enemy CAP & AA, so it's as well to use some non-AB groups to train replacement pilots for LowN & LowB. Don't neglect to train them for Strafe skill as well.

    (in reply to Chuske)
    Post #: 5
    RE: Early War Bomber Usuage (Allies) - 5/17/2014 2:38:26 AM   
    JeffroK


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    In July 1945 when you have enough aircraft to fulfill your plan you should be alright.

    Until then, you are going to misuse your aircraft so as to have some air cover or ground support or search or ASW without it being the optimum aircraft.

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    RE: Early War Bomber Usuage (Allies) - 5/17/2014 4:42:52 AM   
    jmalter

     

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    JeffK is right - in the early war, you must do as best you can w/ the best aircraft & pilots you can muster for front-line airgroups. But you've got to watch them, & move them back from the fight when their losses & fatigue renders them combat-ineffective. It's imperative that you develop a robust pilot-training program as soon as possible, and practice force-preservation techniques.

    (in reply to JeffroK)
    Post #: 7
    RE: Early War Bomber Usuage (Allies) - 5/17/2014 11:41:56 AM   
    Chuske


    Posts: 386
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    Thanks for the replies.

    From crsutton's answer I get the impression that the GrdB skill is the one I need most, with LowG later on for attack Bombers when they arrive. A few medium groups on LowN might be handy and some B17s from Phillipines will start on search missions and switch to other missions later.

    Would I be right in thinking from what is said here that I only need a very few dedicated ASW/search training groups? Mostly I'll train them by active duty?

    As for naval search of course all my patrol planes will do this reinforced by whatever 2E and 4E groups I have sitting idle.

    What would be amazingly helpful is if anyone could be kind enough to write as an example a bit about the assignments they give to their Pearl Harbour bomb and patrol groups in early Dec 41? ie How many you keep at Pearl on search, how many on ASW and the types of training missions the groups have on training and what destination you intend for the groups heading away from Pearl (assuming nothing really unexpected happens). In the end hearing a reasoned example gives a better feel of kind of thinking I'll need to assess training and mission assignments

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    Post #: 8
    RE: Early War Bomber Usuage (Allies) - 5/17/2014 8:36:28 PM   
    rook749


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: jonboym

    Thanks for the replies.

    From crsutton's answer I get the impression that the GrdB skill is the one I need most, with LowG later on for attack Bombers when they arrive. A few medium groups on LowN might be handy and some B17s from Phillipines will start on search missions and switch to other missions later.

    Would I be right in thinking from what is said here that I only need a very few dedicated ASW/search training groups? Mostly I'll train them by active duty?

    As for naval search of course all my patrol planes will do this reinforced by whatever 2E and 4E groups I have sitting idle.

    What would be amazingly helpful is if anyone could be kind enough to write as an example a bit about the assignments they give to their Pearl Harbour bomb and patrol groups in early Dec 41? ie How many you keep at Pearl on search, how many on ASW and the types of training missions the groups have on training and what destination you intend for the groups heading away from Pearl (assuming nothing really unexpected happens). In the end hearing a reasoned example gives a better feel of kind of thinking I'll need to assess training and mission assignments


    There are a couple of good links on this one is http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3540874&mpage=1&key=training� and http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2462965&mpage=26&key=Sleepless%2CSamoa.

    I'll PM you some other information as well.

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    RE: Early War Bomber Usuage (Allies) - 5/17/2014 8:43:57 PM   
    crsutton


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    Years ago I did some testing with attack bombers, fighter bombers and medium bombers. I found that low ground attacks even with attack bombers are overrated. You will do almost as well bombing above 6k even with attack bombers as the AA losses are just not worth the marginally better return. So, I rarely waste time until late in the war training low ground. Low naval is well worth while as when attacking shipping I drop everything down to 1k and below. Even with the reduced bomb load and higher casualties, it is worth it with your mediums. I will use low ground when I have enemy units in the open that I know do not have much in the way of AA assets. (A lot of Japanese units). but otherwise do not use it much. My tests showed that the strafing skill is virtually useless and I don't waste time on it. Even with the heavily gunned B25s I found that it is the bombs that do the damage. Too bad but that is the way that it works. The majority of my pilots are trained in vanilla GB with a lot of low naval mixed in for the mediums.

    It has been pointed out that strafing training seems to help boost defensive skills. I have not tested that.

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    RE: Early War Bomber Usuage (Allies) - 5/17/2014 10:50:46 PM   
    jmalter

     

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    hi crsutton,
    Thanks for posting the conclusions from your testing. I agree that LowG Attack Bombers aren't v. useful 'til late in the war. You're probably right that non-AB mediums are useful as LowN attackers, even w/ the reduced ordnance load. I couldn't buy a bomb-hit from mediums attacking naval targets from higher altitudes. And those 75mm guns on the B-25G/H very rarely get a hit on anything but a ship's superstructure.

    I've found that training for Strafing (100' alt, LowN, LowG or Sweep) definitely does add to Defensive skill. And the only airgroups I've found that will attack light units (TBs) are Fighter-types at 100' Naval Attack.

    (in reply to crsutton)
    Post #: 11
    RE: Early War Bomber Usuage (Allies) - 5/19/2014 10:26:35 AM   
    Chuske


    Posts: 386
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    Thanks crsutton really useful conclusions there. rook749 thanks for the links and PM!

    I've also found the pilot training groups link useful and added that to the useful beginners thread. Need a bit more time to digest the other one

    < Message edited by jonboym -- 5/19/2014 11:28:41 AM >


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    (in reply to jmalter)
    Post #: 12
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