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Crossing Point Objective - 4/20/2014 11:50:02 AM   
springel


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From: Groningen, NL
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I am playing the Melee at Mill scenario, from http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3140798, a 1940 invasion of the Netherlands scenario, and there are some objectives that I may not understand.

There are two objectives that are over Ferry Crossings, and the objective icon is a 'Build Bridge' Icon.

Does that mean that I have to build a bridge there?

The thing I don't understand in the scenario is that at one of those two objectives (Gennep crossing point) there are two crossing points next to each other, one just a crossing point in a road (a destroyed bridge) and the other the ferry that contains the objective, but that is not directly connected to the road. Wouldn't it make more sense to construct the bridge in the road crossing? Especially given that the ferry is already operational?

The other bridge construction objective (St Agatha crossing point) is also a ferry, but that one is connecting a road.
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RE: Crossing Point Objective - 4/20/2014 1:37:52 PM   
jimcarravall

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: springel

I am playing the Melee at Mill scenario, from http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3140798, a 1940 invasion of the Netherlands scenario, and there are some objectives that I may not understand.

There are two objectives that are over Ferry Crossings, and the objective icon is a 'Build Bridge' Icon.

Does that mean that I have to build a bridge there?

The thing I don't understand in the scenario is that at one of those two objectives (Gennep crossing point) there are two crossing points next to each other, one just a crossing point in a road (a destroyed bridge) and the other the ferry that contains the objective, but that is not directly connected to the road. Wouldn't it make more sense to construct the bridge in the road crossing? Especially given that the ferry is already operational?

The other bridge construction objective (St Agatha crossing point) is also a ferry, but that one is connecting a road.


To win points at the objective, the Germans need to rebuild the bridge to meet the Secure Crossing criteria and the Dutch forces need to keep that from happening.

Reviewing the objectives for for the Axis side in SceneMaker shows the "Secure Crossing" location on the map includes a check in the "AI Should Rebuild Bridge" box for its properties.

If that property is set, Table 4 - Objective Properties in the SceneMaker manual says: "For Secure Crossing objectives only: (having a check in the box) Means the objective can still be achieved if the bridge is blown and rebuilt. AI will only build bridges where this box is checked."



_____________________________

Take care,

jim

(in reply to springel)
Post #: 2
RE: Crossing Point Objective - 4/20/2014 1:54:12 PM   
springel


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So what does this mean for a ferry crossing that is not destroyed?

(in reply to jimcarravall)
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RE: Crossing Point Objective - 4/20/2014 3:11:26 PM   
springel


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From: Groningen, NL
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I played this one to the end as German, but I failed to secure those two objectives.

The ferries were not destroyed by the enemy, I secured the perimeter right at the start of the scenario, checking the secure crossing box, and I ordered my two bridge units to construct bridges at the sites. But these bridges were never finished during the 27 hours of the scenario. I don't see how to do it.

(I also failed to exit my troops to the West, because I probably ordered them to move just an hour too late to make it to the exit. So all in all it was a draw).

(in reply to springel)
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RE: Crossing Point Objective - 4/20/2014 4:03:00 PM   
Phoenix100

 

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I have asked these questions in here before, Springel (when this scenario first came out) - you are not alone! The answer, as best I can remember it, is that (a) you need to build the bridges to get the points to win, (b) to build the bridges it's not enough to move up 1 engineer co to each bridge - they need support. I haven't got the scenario in my version at the moment, so can't check what was meant to support them, but I think you had to move more than 1 engineer co up to each bridge, along with some infantry support and give them all a joint build bridge order - that way it gets done quick enough for you to get the points. If I knew how to work out the search system in this forum (it's so counter-intuitive that I haven't a clue and can never find older posts) then I would find the reply from the scenario designer. If you know how to search better than me then you could do so....

(in reply to springel)
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RE: Crossing Point Objective - 4/20/2014 4:07:20 PM   
Phoenix100

 

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Not as counter-intuitive as I thought. here's the old thread - hope that helps - the answer is in there; http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3140798&mpage=1&key=mill�

In there - re your first point, Tukker (who made this lovely scenario) says
quote:

Yes, you have to build the bridges to earn the point. I've done this because historically the Germans needed bridges to move the 9. Panzer across the river- and they needed them quickly.


And Fishbreath provides this winning advice:
quote:

The points come after you build bridges. The bridge builders need some support from the motorized pioneer companies you get. Three of those plus the bridge unit with Construct Bridge orders finished them in a few hours.


< Message edited by phoenix -- 4/20/2014 5:09:52 PM >

(in reply to Phoenix100)
Post #: 6
RE: Crossing Point Objective - 4/20/2014 4:46:58 PM   
springel


Posts: 243
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From: Groningen, NL
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Ah, thank you.

The scenario offered a good game anyway.

EDIT: and ironically the answer was down in the link I provided myself in the OP.

< Message edited by springel -- 4/20/2014 5:54:03 PM >

(in reply to Phoenix100)
Post #: 7
RE: Crossing Point Objective - 4/21/2014 1:05:21 AM   
Arjuna


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Don't give yourself a hard time springel. There's a wealth of information and plenty of good people here willing to assist. So it's better to ask and get a response than to flounder around on your own. Enjoy.

_____________________________

Dave "Arjuna" O'Connor
www.panthergames.com

(in reply to springel)
Post #: 8
RE: Crossing Point Objective - 4/21/2014 2:00:08 PM   
jimcarravall

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

Don't give yourself a hard time springel. There's a wealth of information and plenty of good people here willing to assist. So it's better to ask and get a response than to flounder around on your own. Enjoy.


After posting to the forum, I'd recommend looking at the manual (Game Manual first, then the appropriate component manual -- Map Maker, Estab Editor, and Scenario Maker for more refined levels of detail) while waiting for a response.

The one difficulty I've had is in the terms I use to define a problem. The term I'm thinking may not have been the specific one the author used to describe the matter in the manual. I solve that by taking key nouns from my problem description and searching the manual based on single words instead of phrases. For example, if I want to search for "combat resolution" I may find the information by searching for "combat" and discover the author provided the answer using the term "resolving combat" or "resolution of combat."

The good part of searching the manual is learning other, sometimes even unrelated, subtleties of handling the game engine while scanning for the answer to a different issue.

_____________________________

Take care,

jim

(in reply to Arjuna)
Post #: 9
RE: Crossing Point Objective - 4/21/2014 3:48:38 PM   
springel


Posts: 243
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From: Groningen, NL
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Is there a way to see the progress of the bridge building progress during the game? I tried various views but found nothing of the kind.

I know there are tables in the manual, but as it depends on work force, kind of bridge, etc. that is kind of distracting to calculate in the middle of an ongoing battle, while it can be crucial information.

EDIT: well, asking the question and seeing Jim's previous posting is answering it: I found the answer in the manual at page 100. (Yet I couldn't find it when I searched for it in game during the battle).

< Message edited by springel -- 4/21/2014 4:52:50 PM >

(in reply to jimcarravall)
Post #: 10
RE: Crossing Point Objective - 4/21/2014 5:10:33 PM   
jimcarravall

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: springel

Is there a way to see the progress of the bridge building progress during the game? I tried various views but found nothing of the kind.

I know there are tables in the manual, but as it depends on work force, kind of bridge, etc. that is kind of distracting to calculate in the middle of an ongoing battle, while it can be crucial information.

EDIT: well, asking the question and seeing Jim's previous posting is answering it: I found the answer in the manual at page 100. (Yet I couldn't find it when I searched for it in game during the battle).


I try to make it my habit to open the game manual and then go back to the welcome screen to initiate the game I want to play.

I can then pause the game, and toggle to the manual window to research the mechanics when I have a question.

Usually doesn't take a long pause in the action to search for a solution to my question, and watching the solution initiate after issuing the appropriate orders during the pause helps reinforce the memory of the information I saught at the pause.


_____________________________

Take care,

jim

(in reply to springel)
Post #: 11
RE: Crossing Point Objective - 4/21/2014 5:30:47 PM   
Phoenix100

 

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You mean the sidebar slider showing progress, Springel? You can see the bridge better, sometimes, to click on it, if you hide all units on the map (as the units might be on the bridge, obscuring it) - there's a button in the bottom bar to do this.

(in reply to jimcarravall)
Post #: 12
RE: Crossing Point Objective - 4/21/2014 6:55:08 PM   
springel


Posts: 243
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From: Groningen, NL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: phoenix

You mean the sidebar slider showing progress, Springel? You can see the bridge better, sometimes, to click on it, if you hide all units on the map (as the units might be on the bridge, obscuring it) - there's a button in the bottom bar to do this.


Yes, but the U and J key are even better for this. (But I had to look for the nice QuickReference card that I put somewhere).

(in reply to Phoenix100)
Post #: 13
RE: Crossing Point Objective - 4/22/2014 7:08:06 AM   
Phoenix100

 

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U and J. Ok. Didn't know that. Thanks.

(in reply to springel)
Post #: 14
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