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$99? Heck yeah! - 4/15/2014 4:28:13 AM   
tom730_slith

 

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I got WIF for myself back in December as a Christmas present to me. I finally got to the point of actually running the Barbarossa scenario yesterday, and am learning like crazy now. I took the highly unusual step (for me) of actually reading all the books, a little here and there.
I played the board game years ago - solo only, as was the case with most of my war games. So I remembered some of the basics, and mostly remembered how much fun it was to re-do history with different choices, the complexity of it all, and REALLY loved the production mechanics.
I've noticed on the forum here a number of folks complaining about this or that aspect of the game. I get it, this is the internet so it is almost a requirement that people gripe about stuff. And of course, the product isn't perfect.
But for me I'd like to say that the books alone were worth my $99 . Really.
Then when I look at the depth of research done for ships and military leaders, well, as a guy that used to exchange WW2 history books with his dad every Christmas, that is just like a cool bonus.
Now that I'm actually getting to "play" a little, I can see that the entertainment value of this game is going to be many times over the $99! If we ever get AI as well? My wife may never see me again! And if there is a DOD add-on? Forget about it!
And even if I didn't enjoy it and think it was well worth the money, I probably would have bought it anyway - "voting with my wallet" - just to encourage game companies to do this kind of thing, which is basically produce a niche product that may not make millions, but that WILL make a decent number of gamers very happy.
I know this had to be a labor of love for the people deeply involved in producing the game, and I just want to say thank you! As you read messages of disapproval please remember that there are a lot of folks that will criticize, but few that will make a difference in the world. While perhaps you didn't discover a cure for cancer, but you have developed something that no one else could have, and that will provide me (and many others) countless hours of fun, challenge and creativity.
Thank you.


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RE: $99? Heck yeah! - 4/15/2014 11:23:59 AM   
cfc20045

 

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+1

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RE: $99? Heck yeah! - 4/15/2014 2:36:47 PM   
Numdydar

 

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If you are not closely related to Steve (the developer), how much is Matrix paying you for this ?


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RE: $99? Heck yeah! - 4/15/2014 4:42:11 PM   
Twisted1


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From: Cleveland, OH
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I agree with tom730 100%. Love the game. Worth every penny. Anything more will be a bonus (Get DoD and I will worship the ground Matrix walks on! )

<edit for a complete lack of correct spelling>

< Message edited by Twisted1 -- 4/15/2014 9:36:19 PM >


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RE: $99? Heck yeah! - 4/15/2014 6:21:32 PM   
AxelNL


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Nice to read your posts, guys. I am sure this will boost morale of the whole team.

< Message edited by AxelNL -- 4/15/2014 9:21:35 PM >

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RE: $99? Heck yeah! - 4/15/2014 10:29:35 PM   
WIF_Killzone

 

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Good post, agree completely, the team rocks and Steve is a superstar!

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RE: $99? Heck yeah! - 4/16/2014 12:43:06 AM   
johng5155


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Status: online
+1

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RE: $99? Heck yeah! - 4/16/2014 6:58:49 PM   
Centuur


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Thanks for your kind words... It's good for morale.

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RE: $99? Heck yeah! - 4/16/2014 7:34:13 PM   
Ingtar

 

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+1

I think I already have the cost per hour down below $1. Games that reach that level are becoming rare.

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RE: $99? Heck yeah! - 4/16/2014 9:50:41 PM   
bo

 

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Hi Tom730, appreciate your kind words as there has not been many since the game was released. You are actually picking up my spirits, I am a beta tester on this game and I am not as pleased as you are I had a much different feeling when the game was released IMHO a little too early.

I do agree now with the release but for only one reason we have many more eyes helping us with their ideas about the game. I have always been outspoken about the early release, but when the 2 half maps and the AI are completed, I feel there will be nothing but praise for the game. The net play at this moment in time does not intrigue me at all but just maybe I will get to enjoy that way of playing.

Again your comments are deeply appreciated.

Bo

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RE: $99? Heck yeah! - 4/16/2014 10:05:33 PM   
philabos

 

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This game is so complex it would have been "early" no matter when it was released.
Try laying the maps out on a table with 6000 counters and see how many mistakes you make. I have had the board game for years and it is
Always been in a state of change.
I am amazed the team did as well as they did out of the gate. It will only get better.

(in reply to bo)
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RE: $99? Heck yeah! - 4/17/2014 1:52:52 AM   
Missouri_Rebel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warrenup

This game is so complex it would have been "early" no matter when it was released.



There's a lot of truth in this statement. These positive comments are very refreshing.

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RE: $99? Heck yeah! - 4/17/2014 1:53:46 PM   
AndyG1

 

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Totally agree with Tom's comments. Matrix were up front with the state of the game, I bought it fully aware of what I was purchasing and no timeframe for getting it just right. Also aware the paying customer would effectively help out with the bug finding, etc. But surely doing it this way speeds up development of the game anyway.

Engrossed by this game, still have to learn so much (never had the board game but always aware of it's existence).

Thanks, to the Team, keep up the good work:).

(in reply to Missouri_Rebel)
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RE: $99? Heck yeah! - 4/17/2014 2:24:24 PM   
Manstein63


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Its a Fantastic Game exactly as I remember the original board game. It would be nice to to have a working AI but I am prepared to wait for that.
Manstein63

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RE: $99? Heck yeah! - 4/17/2014 5:34:05 PM   
Centuur


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Wow... More supporters than I thought...

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RE: $99? Heck yeah! - 4/17/2014 11:18:41 PM   
alexvand


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I love this game to.

Since release I have played well over a hundred hours on this game.

I'm content to play solitaire at the moment as I am still brushing the rust of my playing abilities.

I expect it to take at least a year just to get comfortable enough to want to face another human being. (I'm not counting on the AI being worth anything.)


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RE: $99? Heck yeah! - 4/18/2014 6:37:09 AM   
Magpius


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Count me in as a fan.
Treated this game purchase similar to backing a kickstarter project.
I guess I hope that everyone who persevered with an early buy, will be rewarded with a bargain price when an A.I. is ultimately released.

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RE: $99? Heck yeah! - 4/18/2014 9:53:48 AM   
Rasputitsa


Posts: 2875
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From: Bedfordshire UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Agent S
Count me in as a fan.
Treated this game purchase similar to backing a kickstarter project.
I guess I hope that everyone who persevered with an early buy, will be rewarded with a bargain price when an A.I. is ultimately released.


+1

Many people have backed this game with their cash, even if it's not fully complete yet, words of complaint are cheap, but the game has some solid support, keep the faith.


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“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress" - Napoleon

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RE: $99? Heck yeah! - 4/21/2014 2:12:08 AM   
tom730_slith

 

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Really glad my post brought out a few other fans, and especially glad it was a morale boost!
To answer one poster, I have no relation to the designer nor Matrix nor anyone at all involved with production of the game. Just really a fan who has seen one too many negative posts. It's just too easy to be an "online critic" and I even found myself wondering "If I post something positive will I get slammed (flamed) by the more critical out there?" Then I just figured, who cares? For me it is just so awesome to be able to play a little any time I feel like it and have my computer handle the set up and clean up!
By the way, concerning cost, I just looked on e-bay and to get the table top version of the game and all the add-ons currently included would cost around $300! Plus shipping and then the set up and clean up time of course!
Anyway, glad I spoke up. Thanks again to EVERYONE who made it possible for this amazing game to make it to computer!

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Post #: 19
RE: $99? Heck yeah! - 4/21/2014 3:56:21 AM   
onionking


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So much truth to your fine words, especially the last sentence. Have these mud-slingers actually read anything at all about WW II? Just finished Mark Zuehlke's 'The Liri Valley' about the I Canadian Corps drive up the boot of Italy. And I just get the impression that there was a lot of freaking chaos most of the time. And if I lose a CP due to a small bug here and there? It was stuck in a port in Africa LIKE THE REAL WAR. These minute problems might actually add a ton of realism.

I am so so glad to finally be able to play a game, even if I tend to cut corners while playing solo.

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RE: $99? Heck yeah! - 4/21/2014 10:07:26 AM   
Rasputitsa


Posts: 2875
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From: Bedfordshire UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: onionking

So much truth to your fine words, especially the last sentence. Have these mud-slingers actually read anything at all about WW II? Just finished Mark Zuehlke's 'The Liri Valley' about the I Canadian Corps drive up the boot of Italy. And I just get the impression that there was a lot of freaking chaos most of the time. And if I lose a CP due to a small bug here and there? It was stuck in a port in Africa LIKE THE REAL WAR. These minute problems might actually add a ton of realism.

I am so so glad to finally be able to play a game, even if I tend to cut corners while playing solo.


+1

Everything in war is simple, but the simplest thing is difficult. von Clausewitz :

Real war is about SNAFU and being able to deal with it, this is not to excuse errors and bugs in any game, but too much perfection and predictability is just not realistic. Some uncertainly greatly adds to the realistic feel of a game, provided the main game system works.

_____________________________

"In politics stupidity is not a handicap" - Napoleon

“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress" - Napoleon

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RE: $99? Heck yeah! - 4/22/2014 5:48:00 AM   
jascou

 

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+1 to this thread.

I've been of the same mind. Grateful to finally play this game after ....ummmmm....almost 20 years (due to the usual lack of time / space and roaming pet difficulties).

For all of the hard work that has been put into this game, Steve and Matrix deserve ultra kudos for ensuring what probably no one else could make possible (well, not *probably*....they ARE the only ones who made it possible -- in contrast to various individuals who, despite their claims of having acquired such uncanny and godlike abilities in the field of software development, such that they feel qualified to point out to Steve his "obviously" outdated software development techniques --- a feat made that more amazing by the fact that they had never seen one line of code -- and yet, nonetheless get to take zero credit for the *actual accomplishment* of producing WiF for the computer). Putting our money where our mouths are, and lending encouraging support, regardless of the state of the game at this point, is the *only* tangible way to ensure that eventually the game becomes as awesome as it deserves to be.

Worst case scenario: the malcontents continue to overwhelm this forum with their bitching and insults, Steve and Matrix decide that the **** and abuse over what amounts to little more than a labor of love isn't worth it, decide they have better things to do, shrug their shoulders and walk away, leaving us with the following situation:

1) no possibility of future bug fixes.
2) zero possibility of an A.I.
3) nada possibility of Netplay.
4) zilch possibility of whatever pet add-on (DoD, additional options, Patton in Flames, etc, etc) people are hoping to eventually be made available

and best of all:
5) no, non, none, nein, no way, not gonna happen, el zilcho, chance of ADG or any other publisher ever attempting to port this game to computer ever ever EVER again.

Now, wouldn't that be AWESOME? /sarc

Don't think it could happen? I know after reading some of the disrespectful and beyond rude comments (gutter level, really) I've seen directed at Steve and Matrix on this forum for quite some time, if *I* was in their shoes, it would already be game over (pun unintended) for this project. Not sure why people think that just because they can't have something that they really really want right now, that it is acceptable to leap head-first off the civility train.

Oh right, silly me; maturity isn't necessarily universal.

Anyway, timely thread. Overdue, actually. The OP deserves a big thumbs up for getting the ball rolling. Thank you.



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RE: $99? Heck yeah! - 4/22/2014 11:22:57 AM   
tacfire


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+1

Thanks to the developers for making this game!!!

I am new to the game system, and it has taken me many months to learn and appreciate all the finer implications of the rules on the gameplay.

The game's solitaire mode has been working fine for me since the game was released.
Does it have a few bugs? -Yes, but saving frequently and reloading has always allowed me to continue on with my grand campaign game.

I figure by the time I obtain a decent understanding of all the game's rules, Netplay will be working by then.
I know it will take me years to truly master the game system.

The computer version of the game will bring many new players into the WiF gaming community .

In my opinion, ADG group should only further develop new rules for the game with the computer version in mind.
The computer version is definitely going to be the future for this game.

< Message edited by tacfire -- 4/22/2014 12:23:29 PM >

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RE: $99? Heck yeah! - 4/22/2014 10:51:58 PM   
AllenK


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+1 to the post. An absorbing and great game. Well worth the cost and challenging enough for a beginner like me for hours of fun in solitaire mode.

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RE: $99? Heck yeah! - 4/22/2014 11:28:32 PM   
alexvand


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I too have been dismayed by the negativity on these forums. That's why I've been trying to create more positive threads that are about the game. On that note. I'm going to go start another one.

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RE: $99? Heck yeah! - 4/28/2014 11:07:41 PM   
paburke

 

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+1

I treated myself to the game for my birthday and have been engrossed ever since. Have to say I was put off by some of the negativity in some threads but im sure alot of the guys are super fanboys and anything short of perfection wont be enough. I'm enjoying the complexity and depth involved in the game and am truly absorbed by it. Kudos to the Matrix team for the hard work that has gone into and is ongoing into the game, a great achievement so far and I cannot imagine the complexity of coding an AI for this beast!

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RE: $99? Heck yeah! - 5/3/2014 7:18:47 PM   
Laskaris

 

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I never played the WiF board game, but I played World War II PBEMs that were very similar. I am very interested in MWiF and the multiplayer experience it promises. Having a group of 2 to 8 wargamers play out this massive global conflict, with the computer taking care of the number crunching, has long been a dream of mine.

Is the game worth $99? That depends on who you ask. Personally, I take a position between the super-negative trolls and the, in my view, somewhat uncritical fanboyism evident in this thread here. Whenever you read two extreme opinions like that, the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

If the game had either a working multiplayer mode or an AI, I would very probably buy it. Since it presently has neither, I am holding off a purchase. I am not going to pay $99 for a game I can only play in solitaire mode.

It's a pity that, after a decade of development, Matrix chose (for whatever reason, about which I am not going to speculate) to release a game that was obviously not finished. Most other games that have premature releases, even though some of them are eventually fixed to near-perfection, never fully recover from the poor initial reception. As the saying goes: "You never get a second chance to make a first impression."

That said, I wish Steve and the volunteer testers all the best, and hope that this case will be different. If / when the game-breaking bugs are fixed and multiplayer works, I will definitely give MWiF a try.

< Message edited by Laskaris -- 5/3/2014 8:20:56 PM >

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RE: $99? Heck yeah! - 5/4/2014 2:52:26 PM   
csiemers

 

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Here are my thoughts . . .

I've never been much of a video game player, the last video game I purchased was back in the 1990s!

I was thinking last December it'd be nice to get a game that could pass the time and it was a toss up between Civil War II and World in Flames. Both were on the grand scope of their particular conflicts. I didn't want a "first person shooter" as I just don't have the reflexes for that.

Since I'm a WWII nut, I choose World in Flames.

So, I dived in and starting learning the game. From time to time bugs would crop up and I wouldn't be able to proceed with the game. I wasn't too concerned as I was learning and I knew, based on these forums, there were bugs. However, as I got better at playing I started wanting to try different strategies. Such as the Soviet Union declaring war on Japan in 1939 and invading Manchuria and North Korea. Great, the game was going well, was even getting into mid-1941, then got to a point where there was a bug and couldn't go any further. Ok, then I started saving my games at the beginning of a turn so that if I had a bug I could at least go back to the start of the turn.

That was no problem, for awhile. When a bug was encountered I could roll back and make sure I didn't do those same steps and get by the bug.

Fast forward to last week. I decided to start the Brute Force scenario. Did setup, seemed to take hours, and started to play. Only after a couple moves a bug cropped up and I couldn't go any further! Didn't even make it out of the first turn!

Where I was playing every day before, I haven't played for days. Just too discouraged that I won't be able to ever finish one of the scenarios because of game stopping bugs.

So for now I'll probably just casually play a little and wait for bug fixes. I really do want World in Flames to succeed as it has great potential.

Thanks!

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RE: $99? Heck yeah! - 5/4/2014 5:29:25 PM   
AxelNL


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Could you post the gamesave just before or at the point the bug blocks progress in the tech forum? That way it will get attention sooner or later.

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RE: $99? Heck yeah! - 5/4/2014 9:15:17 PM   
rkr1958


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quote:

What an incredibly fun and tense turn (or impulse) I had for so little to have happened in the end. I must admit that prior to MWiF my Pacific wargaming experience has come from playing, many-many years ago, Avalon Hill titles such as, “Midway” and “Victory in the Pacific”. Both are fun; but aren’t exactly the highest fidelity representations of the War in the Pacific. Now, I have to say after playing this impulse that I’ve experienced a wargame, which to my historical knowledge, gives both a realistic strategic and tactical feel to that battle. This alone warrants the pricetag for the game. But couple in that I also get the land war in Europe, China and North Africa; and the Battle of the Atlantic and the naval conflict in the Med; and at this level of realism too – HOLY COW! Personally, if you enjoy WW2 wargaming and studying the history of that period, then MWiF is a must. I don’t care about the bugs and so forth. I believe that all will get fixed and work as intended in the end. O.K – now back to my AAR.


Guadalcanal AAR reference: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3598648&mpage=2&key=&# post 54

< Message edited by rkr1958 -- 5/4/2014 10:16:55 PM >

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