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Some of my designs (post yours here) - 2/7/2003 7:39:48 PM   
Sir Rechet

 

Posts: 33
Joined: 1/30/2003
From: Finland
Status: offline
Titan Name: (Sadist) (Assault Close Combat Titan)
Chassis: Mark MK-A4
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Weight: 199.9t (200t maximum) Height : 19 [meter]
Bmt : 34 (35 kph) Reduce Heat: -4.6C/sec.
Jmt : 12 (100 kph) for 37 secs Cost : 449872 ($)


Equipment:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Component/Type/Location

Engine :Morola M5 [Engine 5] [CBT ]
Heatreg.:Mark MH-II [Heat A]
Shield :Simson-Light [Shld1] [LowT]
D.C.S. :Surko [D.C.S.3] [CT ]
LifeSup.:Bisvo Inc. [Life 6] [Head]
Scanner :Mark M-S [Scan 5] [Head]
Computer:Mark BC-X [Comp. 6] [CT ]
E.C.M :Electra [E.C.M. 1] [CT ]
JumpPort:Mark MJ-I [Jump 6]


Weapons:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Location/Weapon/Ammunition/SL

[RT ] AUTO CANNON 20 (030) [3]
[LT ] AUTO CANNON 20 (030) [3]
[RA ] AUTO CANNON 12 (045) [3]
[LA ] AUTO CANNON 12 (045) [3]
[RL ] NEUTRON BLASTER
[LL ] NEUTRON BLASTER


Armor:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Loc/Internal/Armor/Points/mm

[Head] (15) Dullaroy 027 [039mm]
[RT ] (29) Dullaroy 043 [062mm]
[CT ] (29) Vicenium 045 [075mm]
[CBT ] (19) Millenia 035 [089mm]
[LT ] (29) Dullaroy 043 [062mm]
[RA ] (29) Vicenium 040 [068mm]
[LA ] (29) Vicenium 040 [068mm]
[LowT] (19) Dullaroy 055 [079mm]
[RL ] (25) Vicenium 057 [095mm]
[LL ] (25) Vicenium 057 [095mm]

Armorindex: 3.45 [Total APts/T]
Internal: 248 [APts]
External: 442 [APts] Max:[107mm]
Total Armor: 690 [APts]


JOCK requirements:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Piloting: skill on Assault Titan incl. Jump
Weapons : Energy Cannon
Warfare : Defensives Scanner Warfare(ECM)
Skills : D.C.S

The idea behind this titan comes from the use of "excess" PUs generated by the engine being used for something good, here that good is defined as two Neutron Blasters. A rather similar design to this would be to replace those with pulse lasers or something like that. Even if the shield isn't world-class, it doesn't produce too much heat or consume many PUs either, and should be enough (together with the DCS) to lessen the threat of incoming meson gun fire.

I also tried a version with two Cold Light Guns instead of AC12s, but I quickly noticed that unless I make the engine considerably larger it's going to have severe problems with power generation.

_____________________________

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Jukka Mikkonen a.k.a Sir Rechet
Post #: 1
- 2/7/2003 8:00:35 PM   
Sir Rechet

 

Posts: 33
Joined: 1/30/2003
From: Finland
Status: offline
Titan Name: (Ice Demon) (Assault Close Combat Titan)
Chassis: Mark MK-A3
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Weight: 200.0t (200t maximum) Height : 19 [meter]
Bmt : 35 (34 kph) Reduce Heat: -4.7C/sec.
Jmt : 12 (100 kph) for 37 secs Cost : 501833 ($)


Equipment:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Component/Type/Location

Engine :Mark MK-V [Engine 9] [CT ]
Heatreg.:Mark MH-II [Heat A]
Flare :FL Large [Flare2] [Head]
D.C.S. :Solidon [D.C.S.5] [CBT ]
LifeSup.:Bisvo Inc. [Life 6] [LT ]
Scanner :Mark X-S [Scan 6] [Head]
Computer:Mark BC-X [Comp. 6] [RT ]
JumpPort:Mark MJ-I [Jump 6]


Weapons:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Location/Weapon/Ammunition/SL

[RA ] COLD LIGHT GUN
[LA ] COLD LIGHT GUN
[RT ] COLD LIGHT GUN
[LT ] COLD LIGHT GUN
[RA ] PULSE LASER
[LA ] PULSE LASER
[RL ] MEDIUM LASER
[LL ] MEDIUM LASER


Armor:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Loc/Internal/Armor/Points/mm

[Head] (15) Dullaroy 026 [038mm]
[RT ] (29) Vicenium 052 [087mm]
[CT ] (27) Dullaroy 055 [079mm]
[CBT ] (17) Millenia 016 [040mm]
[LT ] (29) Vicenium 052 [087mm]
[RA ] (29) Vicenium 051 [086mm]
[LA ] (29) Vicenium 051 [086mm]
[LowT] (17) Vicenium 062 [104mm]
[RL ] (25) Vicenium 061 [102mm]
[LL ] (25) Vicenium 061 [102mm]

Armorindex: 3.65 [Total APts/T]
Internal: 242 [APts]
External: 487 [APts] Max:[104mm]
Total Armor: 729 [APts]


JOCK requirements:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Piloting: skill on Assault Titan incl. Jump
Weapons : Energy
Warfare : Defensives Scanner
Skills : D.C.S

Here's a design built around the idea of utilizing the good heat/damage ratio of Cold Light Guns to maximum effect.

However, as the CLG uses up a whopping 20 PU per weapon to reload, it places exorbitant demands for the engine, even if the heat regulator would allow for more firing. Therefore this design has opted to leave shields and ECM devices home altogether. A risky proposition for small team play, but in huge teams, all that matters is the damage output rate. As this is a CC titan, you'll have to count in that you'll be dodging/swiveling most of the time anyway, not to mention recharging jump jets to get to places as soon as possible. The extra-powerful engine helps when you're finally punching & kicking your enemy as well.

Extra pulse lasers and medium lasers seem a bit counter-intuitive, since we need all the power we can get to feed those CLGs. However, they're there to boost the alpha-strike capability, and since the Scanner isn't the fastest one, weapons have plenty of time to reload when you decide to do an active scan in the middle. Which you should, as calling shots at low ranges makes this design a whole lot more dangerous.

_____________________________

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Jukka Mikkonen a.k.a Sir Rechet

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Post #: 2
- 2/7/2003 8:08:34 PM   
Sir Rechet

 

Posts: 33
Joined: 1/30/2003
From: Finland
Status: offline
Forgot to mention - if you REALLY enjoy the power of calling shots, you can replace Life 6 -> Life 3 and Scanner 5 -> Scanner 6 in that Sadist design. That'll leave a bit of extra tonnage for your free use as well.

The Ice Demon's scan time depends on the jock, naturally, but even with scanner 6 it usually takes more time to active scan than to reload CLGs, as they reload in 12 seconds.

_____________________________

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Jukka Mikkonen a.k.a Sir Rechet

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Post #: 3
- 2/7/2003 8:27:42 PM   
Sir Rechet

 

Posts: 33
Joined: 1/30/2003
From: Finland
Status: offline
Titan Name: (Lightbolt) (Heavy Close Combat Titan)
Chassis: Durania H1
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Weight: 139.9t (140t maximum) Height : 15 [meter]
Bmt : 32 (37 kph) Reduce Heat: -4.7C/sec.
No Jump-Ports Cost : 362783 ($)


Equipment:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Component/Type/Location

Engine :Durania [Engine 7] [RT ]
Heatreg.:Mark MH-II [Heat A]
D.C.S. :S.A.W.Fast [D.C.S.6] [CT ]
LifeSup.:Bisvo Inc. [Life 6] [LT ]
Scanner :Mark X-S [Scan 6] [Head]
Computer:Mark BC-X [Comp. 6] [LT ]
E.C.M :TraCop [E.C.M. 5] [CBT ]


Weapons:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Location/Weapon/Ammunition/SL

[RA ] LARGE LASER
[RA ] LARGE LASER
[LA ] LARGE LASER
[LA ] LARGE LASER


Armor:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Loc/Internal/Armor/Points/mm

[Head] (13) Dullaroy 022 [032mm]
[RT ] (25) Vicenium 051 [086mm]
[CT ] (25) Dullaroy 055 [079mm]
[CBT ] (15) Millenia 017 [044mm]
[LT ] (25) Vicenium 051 [086mm]
[RA ] (23) Vicenium 040 [068mm]
[LA ] (23) Vicenium 040 [068mm]
[LowT] (15) Vicenium 051 [086mm]
[RL ] (21) Vicenium 051 [086mm]
[LL ] (21) Vicenium 051 [086mm]

Armorindex: 4.54 [Total APts/T]
Internal: 206 [APts]
External: 429 [APts] Max:[086mm]
Total Armor: 635 [APts]


JOCK requirements:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Piloting: skill on Heavy Titan
Weapons : Energy
Warfare : Scanner Warfare(ECM)
Skills : D.C.S

I REALLY don't have the foggiest idea why the factory claims this to be a close-combat titan, because it's definitely not. It's what I'd call a "medium-range support titan". It's purpose is to find a nice hilltop and just sit there, raining death on the poor enemies. However, even running doesn't shave very much of the firing potential, as the large lasers don't really require a whole lot of power to recharge, plus running generates heat -> you need to watch your firing rate anyhow.

Having FOUR large lasers is a bit of an overshoot for Classic terrain, but works wonders in Polar. By the time you have managed to score an active scan, your heat is back to rather low levels and you can restart the cycle again.

This design has become one of my top favourites in my team, fighting pretty equally alongside a Devastator and Annihilator stock designs. A LL is strong enough weapon to overload shields with a considerably good success rate, as I've noticed so many times.

_____________________________

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Jukka Mikkonen a.k.a Sir Rechet

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Post #: 4
- 2/7/2003 9:52:23 PM   
Lobsteve


Posts: 118
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Victoria BC, Canada
Status: offline
I can't help but wonder what sort of drug the Factory was on when they gave all of those titans 'Assault Close Combat' tags. Very whack. Especially for the LL one.

Lobsteve.

_____________________________

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-- Lewis Carrol

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Post #: 5
- 2/7/2003 10:43:21 PM   
Quinnes

 

Posts: 4
Joined: 2/7/2003
Status: offline
I can't comment on those titans because my team can't afford anything heavier than light titans yet. :) But I think it registers as a close combat titan because large lasers are M/C range and more effective at short than medium range.

Here's my first successful design. I wonder what the experts think of it. :)


Titan Name: (Light Close Combat Titan)
Chassis: Morola L4
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Weight: 70.0t (70t maximum) Height : 10 [meter]
Bmt : 19 (63 kph) Reduce Heat: -2.9C/sec.
No Jump-Ports Cost : 156288 ($)


Equipment:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Component/Type/Location

Engine :Morola M1 [Engine 1] [LowT]
Heatreg.:Delinit H6 [Heat 6]
LifeSup.:Triton TL [Life 4] [Head]
Scanner :CyberSys S [Scan 1] [CT ]
Computer:Mark BC-X [Comp. 6] [CBT ]


Weapons:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Location/Weapon/Ammunition/SL

[RA ] MACHINE GUN (040) [1]
[RT ] MACHINE GUN (040) [1]
[CT ] MACHINE GUN (040) [1]
[LT ] MACHINE GUN (040) [1]
[LA ] MACHINE GUN (040) [1]
[RT ] MACHINE GUN (040) [1]
[LT ] MACHINE GUN (040) [1]
[RA ] POWER AXE
[LA ] POWER AXE
[RA ] MACHINE GUN (040) [1]
[LA ] MACHINE GUN (040) [1]


Armor:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Loc/Internal/Armor/Points/mm

[Head] (11) Dullaroy 018 [026mm]
[RT ] (19) Dullaroy 032 [046mm]
[CT ] (19) Vicenium 033 [055mm]
[CBT ] (13) Dullaroy 020 [029mm]
[LT ] (19) Dullaroy 032 [046mm]
[RA ] (19) Titanium 019 [038mm]
[LA ] (19) Titanium 019 [038mm]
[LowT] (13) Dullaroy 027 [039mm]
[RL ] (17) Vicenium 038 [064mm]
[LL ] (17) Vicenium 037 [063mm]

Armorindex: 6.30 [Total APts/T]
Internal: 166 [APts]
External: 275 [APts] Max:[071mm]
Total Armor: 441 [APts]


JOCK requirements:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Piloting: skill on Light Titan
Weapons : Cannon C.C.
Warfare : Scanner
Skills :

I've no idea how it holds up against more experienced pilots but a rookie pilot in this titan can easily take on any rookie enemy, even in medium titans. It can't fire continuously but long enough to knock most enemies to the ground.
It's also my only titan which isn't seriously handicapped in Hell terrain.

(in reply to Sir Rechet)
Post #: 6
- 2/7/2003 10:59:25 PM   
Sir Rechet

 

Posts: 33
Joined: 1/30/2003
From: Finland
Status: offline
Titan Name: (Nemesis) (Assault Attack Titan)
Chassis: Mark MK-A2
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Weight: 200.0t (200t maximum) Height : 18 [meter]
Bmt : 36 (33 kph) Reduce Heat: -5.1C/sec.
Jmt : 12 (100 kph) for 37 secs Cost : 481368 ($)


Equipment:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Component/Type/Location

Engine :Mark MK-V [Engine 9] [RT ]
Heatreg.:Mark MH-II [Heat A]
Flare :FL Surround [Flare6] [CT ]
D.C.S. :Solidon [D.C.S.5] [CBT ]
LifeSup.:Bisvo Inc. [Life 6] [LT ]
Scanner :Mark X-S [Scan 6] [Head]
Computer:Mark BC-X [Comp. 6] [CT ]
E.C.M :Mark EXL [E.C.M. 6] [LT ]
JumpPort:Mark MJ-I [Jump 6]


Weapons:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Location/Weapon/Ammunition/SL

[RA ] PLASMA GUN
[RA ] PLASMA GUN
[LA ] PLASMA GUN
[LA ] PLASMA GUN
[RT ] MEDIUM LASER
[LT ] MEDIUM LASER


Armor:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Loc/Internal/Armor/Points/mm

[Head] (13) Dullaroy 025 [037mm]
[RT ] (27) Millenia 040 [100mm]
[CT ] (27) Millenia 040 [100mm]
[CBT ] (17) Millenia 017 [043mm]
[LT ] (27) Millenia 040 [100mm]
[RA ] (27) Millenia 039 [098mm]
[LA ] (27) Millenia 039 [098mm]
[LowT] (15) Millenia 040 [100mm]
[RL ] (23) Vicenium 060 [100mm]
[LL ] (23) Vicenium 060 [100mm]

Armorindex: 3.13 [Total APts/T]
Internal: 226 [APts]
External: 400 [APts] Max:[101mm]
Total Armor: 626 [APts]


JOCK requirements:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Piloting: skill on Assault Titan incl. Jump
Weapons : Energy
Warfare : Defensives Scanner Warfare(ECM)
Skills : D.C.S

Here's an attempt at creating a support titan that could try to match the long-range firepower of Devastator or Tentakel to bring down enemies. As you might notice, it's an offshoot from that Lightbolt design of mine. Using energy weapons leaves a lot of room to install nice equipment, so I did. Let's just leave it at "good luck" to try to bring this down with Guided Missiles. :)

The superb heat reduction rate is achieved by bolting down a huge amount of Millenia armor, which in turn makes the armor rather thin for an Assault class titan. However, as this is a support, it shouldn't become a huge problem - your task is to make sure that your supports are protected anyhow. In Classic terrain you'll still encounter heat problems if firing with all four Plasma Cannons, but you could try finding a nice water hex to cool yourself in - let's hope your piloting skills are up to par. The added +5% handling bonus should help you a bit, however.

Even with Class 9 engine the Plasma Cannons need to be used pairwise, ie. shooting two, waiting a moment and then shooting the other two. Shooting everything at once would also be rather foolish considering how much heat those PCs create. Since this is a support titan, you should be able to count three "extra" PUs to recharge weapons, as you're not supposed to be moving around that much, and you have the jump jets for that purpose anyway. For real powermongers, dropping the two MLs and a bit of armor here and there should be enough to upgrade the engine to Class A, but I'd consider it a bit of an overkill, as your firing rate is already limited by heat, not power.

_____________________________

--
Jukka Mikkonen a.k.a Sir Rechet

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Post #: 7
- 2/7/2003 11:28:22 PM   
Sir Rechet

 

Posts: 33
Joined: 1/30/2003
From: Finland
Status: offline
A review on the Machine:

I guess it's OK to put the scanner 1 in that design since you're not likely to find anyone skilled enough to make called shots anyway with your team anytime soon. However, that's also why I'd drop the power axes altogether, a light titan does have a rather solid punch (compared to PX, that is) as it is, and you'll get space for two slots of armor in your hands instead of just one. With the saved tonnage I'd add a DCS system (even Repakoff) because it helps to avoid those dreadful ammo explosions.

Other than that, a titan with a good heat reg and lots of MGs is nothing but pure joy (or pain if you happen to be at the receiving end) when you get to the firing range. Without jump jets, getting there might be a slight problem, but I suppose you're counting on a bit of extra armor and fast chassis to get you there, right?

By the success of Piranha (Pretty much the same but with two chainsaws - yikes!) I'd say this should be a rather good choise for a close combat titan in your team's era. Later on, an upgraded Scanner and called shots should make it a really deadly one.

_____________________________

--
Jukka Mikkonen a.k.a Sir Rechet

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Post #: 8
- 2/8/2003 12:12:08 AM   
GROND

 

Posts: 119
Joined: 4/3/2002
From: hollywood
Status: offline
Guys, you're still missing the point. ToS is driven by Heat and you ignore that at your peril.

Most of my energy titan designs have 2 PBs as part of the main battery. The reason for this is that 3 PBs can't fire any faster than 2 can. It doesn't matter if you spring for an engine 10 they still won't fire any faster. Why? Heat. The firing rate of any Assault Titan is determined not by weapon type, number or size but by how fast your heat reg can cool your titan down. 4 PBs look very imposing but I can take two PBs and have room for something else (say 2 Teslas) to give me the edge at close range or 2 PBs and a bigger shield and more armor. 1.4 allows no more that 3 large AC/Gauss or 2 large Energy weapons (PB/Tesla/Brg) to fire/cool down/fire efficiently. Any design that does not acknowledge that is going to have problems vs a design built with that in mind.

_____________________________

Hetzer

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Post #: 9
- 2/8/2003 12:58:01 AM   
tarendelcymir


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Joined: 10/9/2001
From: Tucson, AZ, USA
Status: offline
[QUOTE]Originally posted by GROND
[B]Guys, you're still missing the point. ToS is driven by Heat and you ignore that at your peril.

Most of my energy titan designs have 2 PBs as part of the main battery. The reason for this is that 3 PBs can't fire any faster than 2 can. It doesn't matter if you spring for an engine 10 they still won't fire any faster. Why? Heat. The firing rate of any Assault Titan is determined not by weapon type, number or size but by how fast your heat reg can cool your titan down. 4 PBs look very imposing but I can take two PBs and have room for something else (say 2 Teslas) to give me the edge at close range or 2 PBs and a bigger shield and more armor. 1.4 allows no more that 3 large AC/Gauss or 2 large Energy weapons (PB/Tesla/Brg) to fire/cool down/fire efficiently. Any design that does not acknowledge that is going to have problems vs a design built with that in mind. [/B][/QUOTE]

He's got a point, there. Even for a pure energy titan, heat is still one of the most important factors in the game.

Listen to the old man, he's wise. :D

_____________________________

We sometimes catch a window
A glimpse of what's beyond
Was it just imagination
Stringing us along?
More things than are dreamed about
Unseen and unexplained
We suspend our disbelief
And we are entertained

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Post #: 10
- 2/8/2003 6:45:12 PM   
PrinceCorrin

 

Posts: 302
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From: Bossier City, Louisiana
Status: offline
ESPECIALLY for energy titans you mean.

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I see your lips moving, but all I hear is: Blah Blah Blah, I'm a friggin moron.

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Post #: 11
- 2/8/2003 9:27:49 PM   
Quinnes

 

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It's only true if you want to fire continuously, but if you fire in bursts you can fire more guns than your heat regulation can handle.
If you fire all your weapons in the beginning you will heat up but do a lot of extra damage. After a while you have to slow down your firing rate but then the damage has already been done (to your oponent).
While you are moving around, locking, scanning or doing anything else besides firing you'll cool down to be ready for the next target.

About Machine:
In fact, even a rookie can make called shots with the machine guns once the target is prone. So I've updated the design with a better scanner at the cost of life support, which I hardly use anyway. So far it works out well.
Damage Control and Jump Packs would be nice but are i.m.o. not worth sacrificing armor or weapons. I stay behind hills and under trees as much as possible so the enemy doesn't get to shoot much before I reach them.
Armor in arms isn't as important I think, because there are no vital systems in them anyway. Occasionally an arm gets ripped of but they glue it back on in the factory at a modest price. The axes are rather important because the target has to go down as quickly as possible. (possibly preventing quite a lot more damage than a bit of extra armor)

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Post #: 12
- 2/8/2003 11:47:29 PM   
Thorgrim

 

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From: Portugal
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As a rule of thumb, each energy weapon takes up 2C/sec of your heat dissipation, each big cannon 1C/sec. So that means you can have 2 energy weapons or 4 big cannons in an assault firing continuously. You can have more than those, of course, but that's where balance with systems and armor begins :)
Moving around while trying to cool down should not be an option unless you really need to, cause moving creates heat - so your heat dissipation is lowered, and your heat goes down slower.
As for alphastrikes, it's really a 2-edge sword. I usually have "alphastrike" weapons in my assaults, MLs or PLs mostly. They can give you an edge momentarily, but they'll also slow down the recharge of your main weapons. (and heat level modifies most if not all your skill checks :) )

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Iceman

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Post #: 13
- 2/8/2003 11:57:56 PM   
Thorgrim

 

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From: Portugal
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Quinnes
[B]About Machine:
In fact, even a rookie can make called shots with the machine guns once the target is prone. So I've updated the design with a better scanner at the cost of life support, which I hardly use anyway. So far it works out well.[/B][/QUOTE]

The LS is not something you use by choice :) If it gets to work, that's a bad sign. Then, you'll wish you had a better one.

[QUOTE][B]
Damage Control and Jump Packs would be nice but are i.m.o. not worth sacrificing armor or weapons.[/B][/QUOTE]

Depends. Jump Ports allow you to DfA your opponent, which is nice in a CC titan. All that damage hitting his upper body, with a little luck his head. You better have strong armor in the legs yourself, though. Plus they allow you to close in faster, and with higher attack penalty for your opponent.

[QUOTE][B]
Armor in arms isn't as important I think, because there are no vital systems in them anyway. Occasionally an arm gets ripped of but they glue it back on in the factory at a modest price. The axes are rather important because the target has to go down as quickly as possible. (possibly preventing quite a lot more damage than a bit of extra armor) [/B][/QUOTE]

Well, there are no systems in the arms, but that's where most of your firepower is. No arms, almost no attack. Hit the dirt and you're dead in the water, with no offensive capability. Even getting up can turn into an adventure.

_____________________________

Iceman

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Post #: 14
- 2/9/2003 9:02:55 AM   
TitanFodder

 

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Joined: 1/1/2003
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My general comment on this discussion is that a lot of mean guns mean a lot of itching in yer trigger-finger. You'll run out of patience and try to get "just one more shot" since you missed with the first few. Then your heat skyrockets and you keep missing and losing patience and possibly the fight.

Hetzer gave you advice beyond measure. I suggest you take it. In a team game why not spread the firepower between a couple of titans. Not only is your team more flexible,but loosing one wont mean loosing everything.

And forget designing support titans. There's only one kind of titan and that is get-there-fast-and-fight-to-the-death. The only exceptions are long range missile bots,and small FAST CC bots with whips&chains. Other than that it's important too keep your team close,and use every opportunity to concentrate all your guns on 1 enemy.

And NEVER count on yer ECM and flares to keep you safe. They wont :D


"Machine"

Too many MGs sorry. 4 MGs will reload fast enough and your heat wont be such a problem. You'll never miss those other MGs. Take a Chainsaw,beef up the arm armor,and add a better scanner cos scanning is the best way of getting "other" experience,and you'll need that when your pilot graduates to heavier titans and heavier guns leaving the CC titan to a new recruit.

"Nemesis"

**** that's the kind of titan i'd hate to fight.Fortunately it's slow and a swarm of mediums will (hopefully) kill it. But it's a good design.

_____________________________

cheers
georg

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Post #: 15
- 2/9/2003 10:42:41 PM   
Thorgrim

 

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Joined: 10/11/2001
From: Portugal
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Well, everyone is entitled to have an opinion I guess...
even if it sometimes is contraditory (the Nemesis has 4 PGs, and that's what Hetzer was talking about/against).

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Iceman

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Post #: 16
- 2/9/2003 11:48:37 PM   
jzpops

 

Posts: 1147
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From: Illinois
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I have to agree on the Nemesis titan. The armor is far too thin for a direct-fire support titan, and the PG will overheat very quickly.

On the other hand, it might be a relatively safe design in a duel, or even a team with only two or three titans.

I'd replace two PG with LRM's, and up the armor. That'd allow you to get a shield, or trade engine size/weight for armor.

I'd also downgrade the jumpjets to a 3 or 4... no reason for the extra power, other than climbing up hillsides/mountains, or the occasional forest hex. But if you're doing that, you're exposing a lightly-armored titan to fire that it can't take, and effectively dish out at the same time. Or even eliminate the jj's, for faster walk/run speed.

"Lightbolt" looks like a good design, although a little under-powered. But LL are the way to go with a machine like that: low(er) heat and good punch and range. I may have to steal it from you. :D

I like the "Machine" design... but eliminating two MG's is a good idea. Rat-at-at-tat-tat!!!!! :D

As for the "Ice Demon"... I hate CLG's. Never work right for me.

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Post #: 17
- 2/10/2003 1:42:10 AM   
Thorgrim

 

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Problem with your solutions is PGs are in the arms, so removing them doesn't bring you any advantages in terms of installing additional equipment. Even LRM racks won't fit.

Downgrading the JPs is something that shouldn't be done lightly. Even installing them shouldn't be done lightly. One thing you must check always is jump time. See how many "jumps" you can get out of them (don't forget up/down). Reducing JPs to 3 or 4 would probably cut number of jumps from 2 to 1, which is a severe drawback. The way it is now, you can jump to level 2, jump 2 hexes forward, and jump back down 2 levels - and still have 1 sec left. JP5 would probably still allow a 2-hex level 1 jump.
Having JP6 might also save your life in a DfA contest.

A couple of remarks:
Extra power in JP6? What do you mean? JP level and power aren't related...
Eliminating JPs doesn't make your titan any faster, unless you leave it underweight after removing them...


BTW, that many plasmas in WS will be asking for trouble... (evil grin)

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Post #: 18
- 2/10/2003 1:45:26 AM   
Thorgrim

 

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Forgot about one thing, armor. That's Millenia, for max heat dissipation. You won't get any more APs out of it in an A2 chassis, it's too bulky. Balancing factor. M has been improved in WS, much better now.

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Post #: 19
- 2/10/2003 2:26:41 AM   
jzpops

 

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Exactly. I don't use Millennia... too bulky. I'd switch to Vicenium, at least. Dullaroy, if weight and heat are not factors. In this case, I'd say the boost in armor outweighs the elimination of two PG's.

I know you can't boost better than a JP 6. But JP's do use up power... don't they???? So eliminating JP's allows for better energy distribution to other systems... IF I'm correct... otherwise, it's a moot point, except for the weight savings.

I'll underweight a titan deliberately, if it allows for a better speed factor, AND if speed is a factor for the design I'm preparing, a CC titan, for example. Even one second can count in a run. And over 30 or 40 moves, one second adds up.

I use JP's in fire support titans only to get them up or down hills/mountains faster, and to enable the occasional quick escape from enemy titans that have closed with them, say from an airdrop. In that operation, one hex or two doesn't make much of a difference... it's the ability to jump, not the quality or quantity of the jump.

So, for example, 14 secs. at 5 secs. up and another 3 down, with a total of 30 secs for 2 levels up and 2 levels back down, with a one-hex jump, is all I'd need. The rest is fat to be trimmed, or else, if I choose to keep it, a touch of insurance.

I've fit LRM 9s in arms before... but in the Nemesis design, you'd definitely have to axe the Millennium armor for Vicenium or Duralloy. Which is a choice I wouldn't hesitate to take!

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Post #: 20
- 2/10/2003 3:36:43 AM   
Thorgrim

 

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Actually, Vicenium is the bulkiest of them all. :)

JPs use power to recharge only. Not when used. 1 PU regardless of JP quality.

Underweight titans? Ha. You know how much weight you have to give up to shave off 1 sec BMT? Not worth it.

I'd say that being able to jump 2 hexes is a much better option when escaping airdrops than only being able to jump 1... and you'll stay airborne longer, which is added protection.
And then there's crossing rivers and streams of acid and lava. Even woods or rocks. 1 hex won't do you any good there.

Hmm, the Nemesis has 36 secs jump time. Trimming it down to 30 would mean reducing JPs to... what? 5?
And yes, there are situations when a touch of insurance is most welcome (mainly reaction related). But anyway, those 6 extra secs aren't wasted in any way. They're just 6 secs less you have to recycle to be able to jump for 30 again, which might be enough to save your skin.

I don't think you understand. An LRM9, how many slots does it take, including ammo? And how many does a PG (we're talking about swapping here) take?
Vicenium, again, isn't an option. Dullaroy yes, but that reduces your heat dissipation, and LRMs are heavy on the heat, just like PGs. GMs would be a better choice in terms of heat - but not of skills, yes.

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Post #: 21
- 2/10/2003 4:29:47 AM   
jzpops

 

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When recharging, what is the rate? 1 pu/second, or some other equasion?

But in short, to recharge a JP, you need extra power.

My underweight proves quite useful in the CC defense role, or when utilized properly as a team effort.

As for the space-for-space replacement of LRM for PG, PG has the edge... if you have the heat regulator and power plant to deal with it. Or in cold climes. But power still remains a factor.

As for heat buildup, when a LRM finishes reloading, it's always cooled off, with or without fire control. For PG's to do that, well, you can't use them without the risk of shutting down. Not that many PG's, anyway.

Suffice to say, swapping one-for-one won't work with an LRM, I agree. But I'd never settle for an assault titan with so little armor in a direct-fire role.

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4 out of five comedians agree: pun fallout is 10 times more toxic than plutonium.

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Post #: 22
- 2/10/2003 5:37:46 PM   
Sir Rechet

 

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Thanks for the input, guys. Here's some actual experiences with those designs.

The Nemesis was just a wild idea that I had, but it fails rather miserably at its task. Energy weapons just don't cut it in a purely supportive role, not even in Polar setting. An added problem (with my team setup anyway, having many large titans) is that many of the larger titans carry a shield, cutting very deeply into the reliability department. And even with its superb heat reduction rate AND Polar climate the thing overheats all the time unless you use like 3 out of 4 PGs only. Ergo, it would actually be an improvement to toss out one of the PGs, at least it'd let you trade that Millenia for something more useful in some places. As I noticed, it doesn't really make THAT much of a difference if your heat reduction rate is -6.1C/sec instead of "just" -5.7C/sec, especially if it means that you'll be tossing out one third of your armor to get there. It just MIGHT be worth it in Hell setting, but that'd also rule out the use of PGs due to their abysmally low damage/heat ratio.

The 4 LLs in a Lightbolt work in Polar setting, though, overheating very little when standing still. Keep in mind that a LL has a much better damage/heat ratio than PG. If and when you need to do an active scan, the added heat will be pretty much gone once you're done with it. But just as with the Nemesis, this design works better in smaller teams as the opponents won't have that many Heavies & Assaults with shields installed.

When designing the Ice Demon I already knew that there might be some problems ahead if I leave shields/ECM home. And boy, was I right! Unless you're playing rookie/green AI opponents, you'll be having called shots (esp. energy weapons) coming your way much more than any imaginable armor could withstand. Plus, being encumbered by such a large engine and having so many things reducing your chances to use the full power output to recharge weapons I found the power management too arduous to bear. Also, since the range of those CLGs is rather limited, I found it frustrating to just act like a sitting duck before I could return fire. And, by the laws of Murphy, once you finally get in range, the first couple of titans you'll encounter WILL have shields, and you're scr3wed.

As a matter of fact, the CLG has a rather interesting problem with it - it's plain impossible to max out the heat reg with it due to power output problems, since you can't just expect to stand still when you have such a lowsy range in your weapons. It works better to ambush your enemies with it, though, and I'd imagine it being a lot more usefull in Hell settings, where even the best heat regs have trouble coping with all that extra heat.

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Post #: 23
- 2/10/2003 5:56:22 PM   
Sir Rechet

 

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On the subject of Jump Jets:

Interestingly enough, smaller titans really don't need jump jets for moving around, other than for crossing rivers and such. Their run speed is already in the same league as the jump speed, and adding a Jump Jet 6 only to get a small speed advantage seems too much of a waste to me. The possibility for DfA is, however, more than enough of a reason for many, for rather obvious reasons.

However, as we get into larger titans, you should pretty much ignore the speed differences of those different chassis types. A jump jet is what's going to get you into (and out of) the action in any reasonable time. And, while we're at it, having the possibility to jump two consecutive hexes instead of just one makes all the difference in the world when both speed AND getting to places is concerned, making Jump Jet 6 pretty much the only viable choise for Assaults. JJ5 would have all too slim safety margins for my taste and I could find ten less critical places to save one extra tonne if in dire need.

An immediate anomaly is titans with energy weapons. Weapons have a higher priority than recharging jump jets, which basically means that once you start blazing away with your energy guns, your jump ability goes bye bye, or you need to be extra careful with those recharge patterns. All in all, this nothing but makes the idea of creating an energy-based Assault Close Combat titan a foolish one, as you REALLY need that extra speed from the jump jets to get into the action! (Or you'll just need to upgrade your engine once again.)

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Post #: 24
- 2/10/2003 6:09:24 PM   
Sir Rechet

 

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About heat:

I've played a lot of games lately in the Polar terrain, which supposedly helps energy titans. Alas, the advantages are rather slight at best - the enemy titans can pretty much ignore the heat constraints of having their shields up at all times as well.

On the other hand, cannon titans that are designed to work in Classic terrain have way overdone Heat regs for their needs, never having to leave heat black condition unless they specifically want to and have enough cannons to push the heat there. Not that it's bad as such, but at least I get the feeling of carrying unnecessary dead weight with me plus all those vulnerable heat reg slots.

I suppose you'll agree with me that this terrain clearly favors the Gauss Cannon-based designs, maybe with a slight modification of one or two added lasers to take advantage of the added heat reduction capability. All other cannon types have no problems whatsoever with heat - they very possibly won't even need to have the Class A heat reg installed to stay cool at all times!

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Post #: 25
- 2/10/2003 6:38:05 PM   
Sir Rechet

 

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Titan Name: (Annihilator P) (Assault Close Combat Titan)
Chassis: Mark MK-A4
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Weight: 200.0t (200t maximum) Height : 19 [meter]
Bmt : 34 (35 kph) Reduce Heat: -4.4C/sec.
Jmt : 14 (85 kph) for 30 secs Cost : 460361 ($)


Equipment:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Component/Type/Location

Engine :Morola M5 [Engine 5] [CBT ]
Heatreg.:Mark MH-II [Heat A]
Shield :Simson-Light [Shld1] [LowT]
LifeSup.:B.M.I. [Life 3] [Head]
Scanner :Mark X-S [Scan 6] [CT ]
Computer:Mark BC-X [Comp. 6] [Head]
E.C.M :TraCop [E.C.M. 5] [CT ]
JumpPort:Morola MJ [Jump 4]


Weapons:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Location/Weapon/Ammunition/SL

[RT ] GAUSS CANNON (045) [3]
[LT ] GAUSS CANNON (045) [3]
[RA ] GAUSS CANNON (045) [3]
[LA ] GAUSS CANNON (045) [3]
[RL ] LARGE LASER
[LL ] LARGE LASER


Armor:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Loc/Internal/Armor/Points/mm

[Head] (15) Dullaroy 027 [039mm]
[RT ] (29) Dullaroy 066 [095mm]
[CT ] (29) Dullaroy 069 [099mm]
[CBT ] (19) Millenia 035 [089mm]
[LT ] (29) Dullaroy 066 [095mm]
[RA ] (29) Dullaroy 046 [067mm]
[LA ] (29) Dullaroy 046 [067mm]
[LowT] (19) Vicenium 064 [107mm]
[RL ] (25) Dullaroy 069 [099mm]
[LL ] (25) Dullaroy 069 [099mm]

Armorindex: 4.03 [Total APts/T]
Internal: 248 [APts]
External: 557 [APts] Max:[107mm]
Total Armor: 805 [APts]


JOCK requirements:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Piloting: skill on Assault Titan incl. Jump
Weapons : Energy Cannon
Skills : Defensives Scanner Warfare(ECM)

Here's a Polar-climate version of the famour Annihilator design. With a minimal add to the engine power, there's now enough power to keep two Large Lasers happy with it. The added heat is partially negated by the climate bonus, but one will need some caution when firing - a top priority should always be given to more accurate Gauss Cannons, as the weapons also happen to have the same maximum range. I decided to drop one GC in favor of superb electronics in the CT instead, this also leaves more work to do for the LLs.

The missing DCS can be explained by there being no risk of ammo explosions, plus the engine being in the CBT, mesons won't have a chance to damage it for quite some time. The lowsy Jump Jet serves only one purpose - to get to that hilltop, period. Any jump is better than having to walk/run that hillside, right?

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Post #: 26
- 2/11/2003 5:35:34 PM   
Thorgrim

 

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by jzpops
[B]When recharging, what is the rate? 1 pu/second, or some other equasion?
But in short, to recharge a JP, you need extra power.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Yep, 1 PU/sec when on the ground.
Yes you do, but that applies to JP6 as well as to JP3 or 4, which was what you proposed :)

[QUOTE]
My underweight proves quite useful in the CC defense role, or when utilized properly as a team effort.
[/QUOTE]

Somehow I don't see this as coming from being underweight... besides, speed advantage is not that useful in defensive roles. More in attack.

[QUOTE]
As for heat buildup, when a LRM finishes reloading, it's always cooled off, with or without fire control. For PG's to do that, well, you can't use them without the risk of shutting down. Not that many PG's, anyway.
[/QUOTE]

Heh. Ever played the Devastator?
Don't forget that alphastrikes *are* affected by heat level.

[QUOTE]
Suffice to say, swapping one-for-one won't work with an LRM, I agree. But I'd never settle for an assault titan with so little armor in a direct-fire role. [/B][/QUOTE]

Why not? If you could fire all the PGs, I would. And that was the intention of Jukka. Granted, it was flawed, but if you could fire 4 PGs 40 armor is enough.
That's what happens with the Ancient Mariner. With all those HMGs, its thin armor is not something you worry about cause your opponent goes down before he breaches yours. And it is a direct-fire titan.

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Post #: 27
- 2/11/2003 11:30:30 PM   
tarendelcymir


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[QUOTE]Here's a Polar-climate version of the famour Annihilator design. With a minimal add to the engine power, there's now enough power to keep two Large Lasers happy with it. The added heat is partially negated by the climate bonus, but one will need some caution when firing - a top priority should always be given to more accurate Gauss Cannons, as the weapons also happen to have the same maximum range. I decided to drop one GC in favor of superb electronics in the CT instead, this also leaves more work to do for the LLs.

The missing DCS can be explained by there being no risk of ammo explosions, plus the engine being in the CBT, mesons won't have a chance to damage it for quite some time. The lowsy Jump Jet serves only one purpose - to get to that hilltop, period. Any jump is better than having to walk/run that hillside, right? [/B][/QUOTE]

It's an interesting idea to make a climate-specific titan. Some designs would be really effective in one climate and totally useless in another. But you'd have to guarantee you'd always get the climate you need for the titan you're using. How's that working for you?

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A glimpse of what's beyond
Was it just imagination
Stringing us along?
More things than are dreamed about
Unseen and unexplained
We suspend our disbelief
And we are entertained

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Post #: 28
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