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RE: "Lobby" is HORRIBLE!

 
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RE: "Lobby" is HORRIBLE! - 3/19/2014 12:16:13 AM   
Ozymandias2

 

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Okay, after a serious round of testing -

1. My friend generally hosts.
2. It generally takes 3-5 minutes for my "Match Making Forum" box to populate (he never has this issue.)
3. Even with appropriate port open etc., if he send me a join-game invite before said box populates, we wind up playing via the lobby with all attendant, reported problems; "Lobby Connection" is displayed.
4. If we wait (get a coffee; dash off an email or 2) for my "Match Making Forum" box to populate, then we wind up with a "Direct Connection" and play is just fine.
5. Hypothesis: random "fast" population of "Match Making Forum" box caused the favorable results ca. 2/28.

- Any ideas? (BTW, from a programming POV, I understand having the dashboard fully populating before full functionality is enabled - but, still ...)

Cheers,
Oz

(in reply to PipFromSlitherine)
Post #: 31
RE: "Lobby" is HORRIBLE! - 3/19/2014 6:19:20 PM   
PipFromSlitherine

 

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OK - so the issue isn't the connection when played directly, but that (for some reason) the forum list takes an age to populate for your machine, and the game does not connect directly unless it has completed the download?

Cheers

Pip


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Post #: 32
RE: "Lobby" is HORRIBLE! - 3/19/2014 6:21:07 PM   
Ozymandias2

 

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Correct, and most vexing.


Cheers,
Oz

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Post #: 33
RE: "Lobby" is HORRIBLE! - 3/19/2014 7:13:02 PM   
PipFromSlitherine

 

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Can you give us some details of the connection you are on, ISP etc.

Cheers

Pip


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Post #: 34
RE: "Lobby" is HORRIBLE! - 3/20/2014 4:29:29 PM   
Steve McClaire

 

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That is very helpful information, thanks Ozymandias2. Will discuss with PipFromSlitherine.

Steve

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Post #: 35
RE: "Lobby" is HORRIBLE! - 3/24/2014 12:54:27 AM   
Ozymandias2

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve McClaire

Hi Ozymandias2,

Sorry to hear that the lobby system is not working for you.

What you're describing sounds like lost data and the games getting out of sync (I.e. one person's game is waiting for data the other has sent, but was never received).

Can you tell me a bit about your system? What version of Windows are you using? What sort of internet connection do you have? Anti-virus / security / firewall software?

Do you and your opponent both have the 1.01 update? http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3288748

When you says 'Connecting to the lobby either crawls or freezes', do you mean logging in to the lobby itself, or connecting to your opponent once you're in the lobby?

Have you tried establishing a direct connection with your opponent? You can do this by having the host open port 1944 for incoming connections. If you do this the lobby server is out of the picture once you and your opponent connect to each other on the lobby screen. The game is then functioning basically the same as it has in past versions.

Thanks,

Steve




AAAAARRRGGGHHHH!!!!!

Opening Port 1944 worked for one night! This evening, we're back to horror show performance; just out of desperation opened port on both ends - AND WOUND UP CONNECTING THROUGH THE LOBBY WHETHER ONE OR BOTH OF US HAS IT OPENED!

Bizarrely, my friend has far less delays even simply entering the lobby.

For anti-malware, I'm running Malwarebytes & have made exceptions for the executable. Microsoft Security Client (Process: "MsMpEng") is also running.

Anymore thoughts ... PLEASE!

(Oh, yeah, and somehow my "Ozymandias2" ID disappeared."


Cringing Whenever I Hear The Word "Lobby,"
Oz

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Post #: 36
RE: "Lobby" is HORRIBLE! - 3/24/2014 2:59:18 PM   
rmdesantis


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Ozy and I are the ones playing - and he is completely correct. Direct Connection happens very rarely (even with port 1944 open on my router. Please realize that both of us have had extensive systems backgrounds both on Wall Street and in corporate America, so we're reasonably capable of working through technical issues.

We wind up spending quite a bit of time trying to figure out if there are certain conditions that need to be met (apart from the open port) in order to establish a direct connection (because the lobby system is so incredibly bad). Ultimately, we give up and try to play.

Let me describe how the play goes - we each log into the lobby system. This takes about 60 or so seconds for the connection to come through (Ozy will tell me on the phone he's on the lobby, but I don't see him appear for some time). I, as host, click 'host' and then we wait another 60-120 seconds while the program does whatever it does. When we get a direct connection, that typically pops up within 30 seconds. Lobby connection will take closer to 120 seconds (we have timed it).

After selecting the scenario, I get on the strategic screen (we are playing a campaign) within a few seconds. Ozy will wait 2-3 minutes while the program sends whatever data to him. Once we both are on the strat screen, we proceed and the next and the program takes 2-3 minutes to transfer data. After choosing forces, we wait another 2-3 minutes (again, we've timed all these pauses) for the data exchange to take place.

As host, I can set up easily, but Ozy will fight a long lag while dragging/dropping. Note - I have had Ozy host a few times and I can say that I experience the same drag/drop issue (click on a unit, try to drag but nothing happens for a few seconds, then it will move, then it drops in the wrong place, etc). Very frustrating, but we learn that this is part of the 'overhead' that we have in playing this game.

The battles typically run okay - no issues with orders or any other aspect of the game. There are times, of course, where the game freezes entirely (about 1 time in 3). What we do to make sure we don't have to start this whole process again is that the person who is not hosting will call for a truce early in the battle, and if there is a freeze, typically we find the hosting PC - although frozen - can accept the truce and the game result is saved on the host computer.

As you can see, we spend a lot of time treating and dealing with the symptoms of a poorly executing product. We live on opposite sides of the country so this is a time when we get to enjoy each others' company, even for a short while, but much of the time is spent in a frustration, which you can sense from Ozy's posts here.

Mike

(in reply to Ozymandias2)
Post #: 37
RE: "Lobby" is HORRIBLE! - 3/24/2014 4:04:54 PM   
PipFromSlitherine

 

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I'm not sure how you can have variability with the direct connection, where it works for one day and then stops. Either the ports are open or they are not. Have you guys played prior CC incarnations in MP without issue? The port settings are identical AFAIK.

It sounds like there are a multitude of issues going on - ports failing to work, 5 minute downloads for a few HTTP calls.

If you could both post your ISP and the type of router you are using that would be very helpful.

Cheers

Pip

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Post #: 38
RE: "Lobby" is HORRIBLE! - 3/24/2014 4:06:48 PM   
PipFromSlitherine

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ozymandias2


quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve McClaire

Hi Ozymandias2,

Sorry to hear that the lobby system is not working for you.

What you're describing sounds like lost data and the games getting out of sync (I.e. one person's game is waiting for data the other has sent, but was never received).

Can you tell me a bit about your system? What version of Windows are you using? What sort of internet connection do you have? Anti-virus / security / firewall software?

Do you and your opponent both have the 1.01 update? http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3288748

When you says 'Connecting to the lobby either crawls or freezes', do you mean logging in to the lobby itself, or connecting to your opponent once you're in the lobby?

Have you tried establishing a direct connection with your opponent? You can do this by having the host open port 1944 for incoming connections. If you do this the lobby server is out of the picture once you and your opponent connect to each other on the lobby screen. The game is then functioning basically the same as it has in past versions.

Thanks,

Steve




AAAAARRRGGGHHHH!!!!!

Opening Port 1944 worked for one night! This evening, we're back to horror show performance; just out of desperation opened port on both ends - AND WOUND UP CONNECTING THROUGH THE LOBBY WHETHER ONE OR BOTH OF US HAS IT OPENED!

Bizarrely, my friend has far less delays even simply entering the lobby.

For anti-malware, I'm running Malwarebytes & have made exceptions for the executable. Microsoft Security Client (Process: "MsMpEng") is also running.

Anymore thoughts ... PLEASE!

(Oh, yeah, and somehow my "Ozymandias2" ID disappeared."


Cringing Whenever I Hear The Word "Lobby,"
Oz

Both Malwarebytes and MSC are anti-virus programs and are unlikely to interfere. Do you have any software firewalls running (e.g. Windows Firewall, Zonealarm, Norton Internet Security, etc).

Cheers

Pip



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Post #: 39
RE: "Lobby" is HORRIBLE! - 3/24/2014 5:51:59 PM   
Ozymandias2

 

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My ISP is Time Warner Cable. D/L speed 12-13 Mbps; upload 5-6 Mbps.

Ubee router; Netgear wifi.

And we've been playing H2H since 1999.

As an aside, as an ex-programmer, I'd be curious to know how the Lobby "hands off" a handshake it's controlling (seriously: just curiosity.)


-Oz

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Post #: 40
RE: "Lobby" is HORRIBLE! - 3/24/2014 5:53:28 PM   
Ozymandias2

 

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quote:


Both Malwarebytes and MSC are anti-virus programs and are unlikely to interfere. Do you have any software firewalls running (e.g. Windows Firewall, Zonealarm, Norton Internet Security, etc).

Cheers

Pip



No.


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Post #: 41
RE: "Lobby" is HORRIBLE! - 3/24/2014 8:15:54 PM   
PipFromSlitherine

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ozymandias2

My ISP is Time Warner Cable. D/L speed 12-13 Mbps; upload 5-6 Mbps.

Ubee router; Netgear wifi.

And we've been playing H2H since 1999.

As an aside, as an ex-programmer, I'd be curious to know how the Lobby "hands off" a handshake it's controlling (seriously: just curiosity.)


-Oz

There are two separate TCP routing servers. One handles letting people in the lobby talk to one another, the other is used for games where the players are not directly connected. There is an HTTP lobby system which is responsible for tracking logins and IP addresses for the players.

Would it be possible for you to try out a game with a direct (wired) connection to your router. The 5 min download for the forum list is the most obvious symptom of whatever is going wrong.

Cheers

Pip




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Post #: 42
RE: "Lobby" is HORRIBLE! - 3/24/2014 10:59:02 PM   
rmdesantis


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The port settings for prior CC's are completely different - we've played head-to-head since CC first came out in the late 90s, without these frustrating issues. Port 1944 is open to my gaming laptop.

I'm on Comcast, and have a Netgear WNDR 4300. I have no issues with transmission speed, btw - I run a business out of my home without a problem. So, by process of elimination I keep coming back to CC being the issue.

Like you, I have no idea why we can't get Direct Connection to work reliably or regularly.

Mike


(in reply to PipFromSlitherine)
Post #: 43
RE: "Lobby" is HORRIBLE! - 3/25/2014 12:11:17 AM   
Steve McClaire

 

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Mike,

There is a certain time window the host will wait after trying a direct connection before it decides that it is not possible and it should fall back on the lobby. The default timeout is 5 seconds. Based on what Ozymandias2 described, it sounds like it is taking longer than that for him to get lobby information in many cases.

If you're comfortable using RegEdit, go into your registry under HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Matrix Games\Close Combat Panthers in the Fog\ and change the key for ConnectionTimeout to some very high value (say 30 75 00 00 = 30 seconds) and see if that helps. If you're not confident about doing this I can email you a registry file that will set it automatically.

Steve

(in reply to rmdesantis)
Post #: 44
RE: "Lobby" is HORRIBLE! - 3/25/2014 5:42:46 AM   
rmdesantis


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Okay, I made that change. We'll see how it works.

Mike

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Post #: 45
RE: "Lobby" is HORRIBLE! - 3/25/2014 4:33:18 PM   
PipFromSlitherine

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ozymandias2

My ISP is Time Warner Cable. D/L speed 12-13 Mbps; upload 5-6 Mbps.

Ubee router; Netgear wifi.

And we've been playing H2H since 1999.

As an aside, as an ex-programmer, I'd be curious to know how the Lobby "hands off" a handshake it's controlling (seriously: just curiosity.)


-Oz

Is it possible that your install of Internet Explorer is not set up to match your current configuration? Some of the HTTP subsystems use IE components, and if you use a different browser and have changed things in your config it might be possible that IE is having trouble with speed.

Just trying to think through the forum list delays you are seeing.

Cheers

Pip


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Post #: 46
RE: "Lobby" is HORRIBLE! - 3/25/2014 8:58:37 PM   
Ozymandias2

 

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Standard IE 11 on Windows 7; auto-updates for both enabled.

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Post #: 47
RE: "Lobby" is HORRIBLE! - 3/25/2014 10:20:48 PM   
PipFromSlitherine

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ozymandias2

Standard IE 11 on Windows 7; auto-updates for both enabled.

Is it your day-to-day browser and operates without issue?

Cheers

Pip



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Post #: 48
RE: "Lobby" is HORRIBLE! - 3/26/2014 1:58:38 AM   
Ozymandias2

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PipFromSlitherine


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ozymandias2

Standard IE 11 on Windows 7; auto-updates for both enabled.

Is it your day-to-day browser and operates without issue?

Cheers

Pip




Weirdly, it's mildly incompatible with two sites I frequent: Quora and CivFanatics. On Quora, text formatting is impossible; on Civ, the slider bar has to be "grabbed" and moved.

Neither of these issues is unique to me: they are site specific; I can tolerate the CivFanatics issue, but use Firefox for Quora (being mildly paranoid, I also have Chrome and Opera lurking on my PC somewhere, but I never use them.)


Best,

Oz

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Post #: 49
RE: "Lobby" is HORRIBLE! - 3/27/2014 2:35:55 AM   
rmdesantis


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In an effort to move things forward, I just volunteered to be a beta tester for Gateway to Caen

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RE: "Lobby" is HORRIBLE! - 3/27/2014 3:05:59 AM   
Ozymandias2

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rmdesantis

In an effort to move things forward, I just volunteered to be a beta tester for Gateway to Caen


Ditto that.

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Post #: 51
RE: "Lobby" is HORRIBLE! - 3/31/2014 11:36:30 PM   
rmdesantis


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After making the change, we played last night. The first time we tried to connect, we got the Lobby connection (after waiting for about a minute). We played several episodes and then the game froze (not unusual). Starting the software again, we connected a second time and then we had a Direct Connection (in less than 10 seconds).

Nothing changed in our systems during that time - so we have no idea why we get Lobby connection most of the time, and Direct Connection occasionally (but rarely).

Mike

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve McClaire

Mike,

There is a certain time window the host will wait after trying a direct connection before it decides that it is not possible and it should fall back on the lobby. The default timeout is 5 seconds. Based on what Ozymandias2 described, it sounds like it is taking longer than that for him to get lobby information in many cases.

If you're comfortable using RegEdit, go into your registry under HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Matrix Games\Close Combat Panthers in the Fog\ and change the key for ConnectionTimeout to some very high value (say 30 75 00 00 = 30 seconds) and see if that helps. If you're not confident about doing this I can email you a registry file that will set it automatically.

Steve


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Post #: 52
RE: "Lobby" is HORRIBLE! - 4/1/2014 4:17:34 PM   
PipFromSlitherine

 

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Did the startup times match up with the time it took for the data to come down to Ozy's machine when we went into the lobby? What value had you set the direct connect timeout to?

Cheers

Pip


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Post #: 53
RE: "Lobby" is HORRIBLE! - 4/1/2014 4:19:53 PM   
Steve McClaire

 

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Thanks for the update. Everything so far still points to the joining player's machine not receiving data from the lobby in a timely manner.

Did you wait for the forums to load on Ozymandias2's machine before trying to connect?

Will keep you posted as we continue to look into this.

Steve

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Post #: 54
RE: "Lobby" is HORRIBLE! - 4/2/2014 12:03:37 AM   
rmdesantis


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I used the suggestion from Steve in post #43 above, so I presume 30 seconds.


quote:

ORIGINAL: PipFromSlitherine

Did the startup times match up with the time it took for the data to come down to Ozy's machine when we went into the lobby? What value had you set the direct connect timeout to?

Cheers

Pip



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Post #: 55
RE: "Lobby" is HORRIBLE! - 4/2/2014 12:04:28 AM   
rmdesantis


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I think so, but I don't recall. In the future, we'll wait to be sure that the forum loads before trying to host or join.

Mike

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve McClaire

Thanks for the update. Everything so far still points to the joining player's machine not receiving data from the lobby in a timely manner.

Did you wait for the forums to load on Ozymandias2's machine before trying to connect?

Will keep you posted as we continue to look into this.

Steve


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Post #: 56
RE: "Lobby" is HORRIBLE! - 4/8/2014 4:39:50 AM   
Tejszd

 

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Another example where depending on a company to be able to multiplayer hurts gamers in the long run; Sony Shutting Down Resistance Trilogy Servers April 8th

http://www.gamrreview.com/news/91254/sony-shutting-down-resistance-trilogy-servers-april-8th/

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Post #: 57
RE: "Lobby" is HORRIBLE! - 4/24/2014 2:55:30 PM   
Ozymandias2

 

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Update from Dell: IE11 is "incompatible" with Windows 7; I've rolled back to IE10 & disabled auto-updates; I'll see if this has any effect this coming Sunday.

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Post #: 58
RE: "Lobby" is HORRIBLE! - 4/24/2014 7:32:42 PM   
PipFromSlitherine

 

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Well, that's patently untrue, but perhaps it's true on Dell machines?? Let us know if it changes anything.

Cheers

Pip


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Post #: 59
RE: "Lobby" is HORRIBLE! - 4/24/2014 9:21:58 PM   
Ozymandias2

 

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I wouldn't go with "patently untrue." Two websites - one of which I've been frequenting for a decade - (CivFanatics; the other is Quora) were not functioning properly under IE11 (I had to use Firefox for those sites) and, with the roll-back to IE10, every problem I had been encountering was resolved.

-Oz

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Post #: 60
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