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RE: Human wave failed attempt #9

 
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RE: Human wave failed attempt #9 - 2/24/2014 2:19:30 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 34479
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From: Vermont, USA
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Hi guys,

I advise playing everything through on "Intro" difficulty first. Human wave is a hard scenario until you get the hang of it. Once you do, it is possible to beat it reliably and those lessons help you in other scenarios.

The advice above from Barthheart and Mark is good advice. Use the mortars and the Slayer carefully, they are the keys to the scenario.

We toned this down a few times during beta testing. While I'm sure Mark is loathe to revisit it again, I'm sure he is taking all the comments here into account.

Regards,

- Erik


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(in reply to Barthheart)
Post #: 31
RE: Human wave failed attempt #9 - 2/24/2014 3:57:59 PM   
vonRocko

 

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Please don't tone it down. It took me eight tries, but the first five I was using the wrong tactics. once I got some advice from Barthheart, It only took a few more attempts. You do need some luck however, but once you got the right tactic you should be able to win.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 32
RE: Human wave failed attempt #9 - 2/24/2014 9:44:48 PM   
mh1066

 

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Joined: 5/11/2012
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The problem is not that we dislike losing (heck, losing can even be fun if it is a well designed scenario), but rather the inability to move onto the next scenario. This simply is not a very fun battle to play much less replay several times. It lacks true tactical choices, and in the end feels more like an Xbox console game boss fight where the designer just throws more zombies at the player rather than a serious wargame. Either just unlock ALL the campaign scenarios at the outset, or allow for the option to continue on regardless of the outcome of the previous battle. Either one renders this issue mute.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 33
RE: Human wave failed attempt #9 - 2/25/2014 12:01:28 AM   
baloo7777


Posts: 954
Joined: 5/18/2009
From: eastern CT
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Hi guys,

I advise playing everything through on "Intro" difficulty first. Human wave is a hard scenario until you get the hang of it. Once you do, it is possible to beat it reliably and those lessons help you in other scenarios.

The advice above from Barthheart and Mark is good advice. Use the mortars and the Slayer carefully, they are the keys to the scenario.

We toned this down a few times during beta testing. While I'm sure Mark is loathe to revisit it again, I'm sure he is taking all the comments here into account.

Regards,

- Erik



I played up to this point on normal, then after a couple trys I switced to intro. I played some scenarios very well with only one attempt on the first one (and some luck with the little girl). I thoroughly enjoy and will continue to play this game. I am playing the russian campaign as we speak and am onto the scenario where they defend a factory and some railyards (right after the scenario escorting some civilians to safety). So I have had some successes on normal level. I don't enjoy having to play the german scenario over and over and not being able to move on. That's why I am going back to playing single player scenarios and not get stuck playing one scenario as a if trying to solve a puzzle.


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Post #: 34
RE: Human wave failed attempt #9 - 2/25/2014 12:48:29 AM   
jonj01

 

Posts: 219
Joined: 2/21/2014
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I'm not usually such a cry baby about a scenario or a game with a AI opponent. I had the scenario beat twice (once on hard and once on normal) until a hero appeared with the "one more time" skill card.

Game over both times. I have now beat it on intro settings twice, but I have never been an intro kind of guy.

Hats off to the developers for the limit on heros generated for the soviets in the scenario. This limit keeps the map from being filled with many russian heros. I've played it half a dozen or so times and never had less than 5 heros generated. A key is not waste fire killing them...you will just get more.

The "one more time" skill card is a pain in the neck. It basically ends the game there just as if you let Wurtz get killed. You might want to remove this skill card from the scenario.


(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 35
RE: Human wave failed attempt #9 - 2/25/2014 10:40:28 AM   
markhwalker


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Joined: 1/29/2005
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quote:

This simply is not a very fun battle to play much less replay several times. It lacks true tactical choices, and in the end feels more like an Xbox console game boss fight where the designer just throws more zombies at the player rather than a serious wargame.


There are plenty of tactical choices, you probably just aren't familiar enough with the game to take them. The scenario is hard, it was meant to be hard, but with the right tactics it can be regularily beaten. You can't skip scenarios, because of the core units you must carry and improve through the campaign. If you could skip, players might jump ahead to campaign scenario 6, get their butt kicked because it is unbalanced, and then complain that this isn't a serious war game.

quote:

serious wargame

Very serious, there isn't a joke in the game, but I think I'll add a couple of one-liners in the next iteration.

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(in reply to jonj01)
Post #: 36
RE: Human wave failed attempt #9 - 2/25/2014 5:10:34 PM   
cerberus77

 

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longtime buyer of the lock and load franchise...awesome alternative to ASL as i just havent had the time to play ASL in decades (literally).

this pc import is very slick. Thank you for your time and effort as the quality is always top notch.

(in reply to markhwalker)
Post #: 37
RE: Human wave failed attempt #9 - 2/26/2014 7:28:16 AM   
Skanvak

 

Posts: 577
Joined: 4/3/2005
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I am happy to see that other people feel the same about the campaign. I think this is a difficult issue because, for one, I like to play without bonus to either side (I like toplay true to the rules). But it is true that on hard, the difficulty is high. It look like a puzzle game. Though I love the idea of experience with some core unit, I do find frustating to have to play the scenario again and again. With experience, the campaign could have been more dinamyc (like the panzer general campaign).

About the machine gun, I find that as long it does not fire, it does interdict, but once fired, it is a bit gamey to pass near it. Whereas the slayer card is overpowerful, making a single guys with its submachinegun stronger than a MG42 squad. But from RO2 expérience, you cannot keep firing your machinegun all the time. At some point you need to recharge and that takes times. But as said the problem is the difference between the Slayer abilities and the MG42 one shot only abilty.

And yes, Heroes are a bit too strong and come back too often! The idea of heroes is nice but they should be limited in absolute (ie you can have 2 heroes in a scenario, if one die you cannot get it back) because a heroes is stronger than a squad, so this is a random factor than unbalanced scenario with lots of units (and make me feel like playing WH40K).

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Skanvak

(in reply to cerberus77)
Post #: 38
RE: Human wave failed attempt #9 - 3/1/2014 3:32:07 AM   
Tim James

 

Posts: 28
Joined: 3/1/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mh1066

The problem is not that we dislike losing (heck, losing can even be fun if it is a well designed scenario), but rather the inability to move onto the next scenario. This simply is not a very fun battle to play much less replay several times. It lacks true tactical choices, and in the end feels more like an Xbox console game boss fight where the designer just throws more zombies at the player rather than a serious wargame. Either just unlock ALL the campaign scenarios at the outset, or allow for the option to continue on regardless of the outcome of the previous battle. Either one renders this issue mute.


This is correct. I learned the lesson of Human Wave on the second try (though I still didn't win). But as a working adult with kids, I don't have time to play a campaign scenario 9 times. I'd like to move on and see the rest of the content.

God bless you for designing the scenario. I definitely wouldn't change it. But it would be nice to accomodate multiple playstyles with a more flexible campaign metagame. I like the idea of providing an option to move on after a defeat. This reasonably preserves your campaign storyline. Then in the GUI, track which scenarios are finished and which ones are "incomplete." We can always go back to fill in the blanks.

Without a lot of time right now, perhaps I should put the campaign on the back burner and play some individual scenarios. I still recommend thinking about the campaign metagame to see if you get any great ideas for this issue.

(in reply to mh1066)
Post #: 39
RE: Human wave failed attempt #9 - 11/6/2014 12:21:06 AM   
Dino_SWE

 

Posts: 31
Joined: 11/6/2014
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I just beat this scenario on normal. The key strategy is to shake enemy units at minimal cost.
Select as few soldiers as you can for opportunity fire. Once an enemy counter is shaken, avoid shooting at it. Let it retreat in peace and focus on shaking the remaining good ordered units as they try to move.

I also find it best to fall back with the western flank on turn 1. Set up Frei in the lodge beside the MG.

In my previous attempts I spent actions on killing already shaken units, and it bit me in the ass.


Awesome game btw, the soundtrack is gold :)


On a side note: I found the game (and the 3rd mission in particular) become much more pleasant to play if you enable auto-end impulses in the game options. I also enabled scrolling dice results and decreased the message time to 3.
It really improves the flow of the game. Happy hunting!

< Message edited by Dino_SWE -- 11/6/2014 1:46:35 AM >

(in reply to Tim James)
Post #: 40
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