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Funerals are FUN? - 2/19/2014 12:04:08 PM   
Joe D.


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MILWAUKEE (AP) — A photograph showing soldiers clowning around an empty, flag-draped casket has sparked a furor online, with people saying it's disrespectful of veterans and those killed in action.

The Wisconsin National Guard responded Tuesday by announcing it had suspended honor guard duties of the soldier who apparently posted the photograph on Instagram.

The photograph was taken at a guard training facility in Arkansas and shows about a dozen soldiers around the casket. Several hug (sic) playfully hug, one flashes a peace sign and another is pointing off in the distance.

The caption reads, "We put the FUN in funeral -- your fearless honor guard from various states" ...

http://news.yahoo.com/soldiers-clowning-around-empty-casket-sparks-furor-073607724.html


< Message edited by Joe D. -- 2/19/2014 1:27:00 PM >


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RE: Funerals are FUN? - 2/19/2014 12:10:57 PM   
altipueri

 

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Standing on the coffin at a funeral is not wakeboarding.

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RE: Funerals are FUN? - 2/19/2014 3:33:13 PM   
british exil


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If they are the fearless, then they should be sent off somewhere where it is really dangerous. Let them return after 6 months duty on the line. See how much they have FUN at funerals then.

Shows disrespect not only for the fallen soldiers, but also to the families have suffer the loss.

Mat

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RE: Funerals are FUN? - 2/19/2014 3:45:21 PM   
bayonetbrant

 

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The soldiers absolutely screwed up, but this was not an actual funeral that disrespected a fallen servicemember, as it was at the training facility with an empty casket.

They need their asses handed to them, but in the process of being morons, they didn't do it at a real funeral that would add indignity to a specific family's loss.


quote:

ORIGINAL: british exil
If they are the fearless, then they should be sent off somewhere where it is really dangerous. Let them return after 6 months duty on the line. See how much they have FUN at funerals then.


IIRC from traffic I saw elsewhere, several of them do have Iraq/Afghanistan deployments under their belts. How much of it was outside the wire I don't know.

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RE: Funerals are FUN? - 2/19/2014 10:40:23 PM   
Joe D.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bayonetbrant

The soldiers absolutely screwed up, but this was not an actual funeral that disrespected a fallen servicemember, as it was at the training facility with an empty casket ....


It was more than that.

WASHINGTON — A Wisconsin National Guard member who publicly defended a subordinate who posted controversial photos and comments about military funerals on the Internet, has been suspended from his regular duties pending the outcome of an ongoing investigation into the matter, according to Maj. Paul Rickert, the director of public affairs for the Wisconsin Guard.

The photos and comments which ignited a firestorm of criticism on social media and caused the Wisconsin National Guard and the Army National Guard to initiate separate investigations into the scandal, appeared on the Instagram page of Spc. Terry Harrison, a member of the Madison-based 1st Battalion, 147th Aviation Regiment ...

http://www.stripes.com/news/us/2nd-national-guard-soldier-suspended-over-casket-photo-scandal-1.268619?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=dlvr.it




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RE: Funerals are FUN? - 2/19/2014 10:45:05 PM   
Joe D.


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And here's another.

Air Force will take ‘appropriate action’ over viral POW/MIA emblem photo

WASHINGTON — The Air Force is “disappointed” in the airman who appeared in a photo that is being circulated of her posing with her tongue in the mouth of the prisoner of war depicted on the iconic black-and-white POW/MIA emblem ...

http://www.stripes.com/news/us/air-force-will-take-appropriate-action-over-viral-pow-mia-emblem-photo-1.267780

Another instance of a picture being worth a thousand words.


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RE: Funerals are FUN? - 2/19/2014 11:05:30 PM   
WarHunter


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Was there a body in the casket? Even if there was i don't see a problem. Hell, i hope when my funeral takes place the honor guard is composed of like individuals. I guess no one ever "goofs" before or after a funeral. If it was during the funeral. Then i would ask for apologies.

Just more PC BS to force compliance of the sheeple.

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RE: Funerals are FUN? - 2/19/2014 11:23:08 PM   
Joe D.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WarHunter

Was there a body in the casket? Even if there was i don't see a problem. Hell, i hope when my funeral takes place the honor guard is composed of like individuals. I guess no one ever "goofs" before or after a funeral ....


Even if they did, I would hope they wouldn't be dumb enough to post it online.



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RE: Funerals are FUN? - 2/20/2014 1:54:22 AM   
2ndACR


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Personally, I find it a disgrace and would love to see each and every one of them tossed out on their ass with dishonorable discharges. I performed many a funeral detail while active duty back in the 80's, over 80 of them and we always approached our duty with the utmost respect. We practiced for hours every day to make sure everything went off without a hitch, all shots as one, pall bearers carrying a sandbag loaded practice casket over and around obstacles, flags folded so many times that it could literally be performed with our eyes closed. We stayed on call, spent many a hour traveling on a bus to towns in 4 states performing our duty.

Just shows me how far my Army is falling with the newer troops.

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RE: Funerals are FUN? - 2/20/2014 3:18:28 AM   
Greybriar


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Their behavior was very unprofessional. I wouldn't go so far as to say they deserve a dishonorable discharge, but they should never be permitted to participate in military funerals again and they should all be disciplined.

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RE: Funerals are FUN? - 2/20/2014 11:57:39 AM   
bayonetbrant

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe D.
quote:

ORIGINAL: bayonetbrant
The soldiers absolutely screwed up, but this was not an actual funeral that disrespected a fallen servicemember, as it was at the training facility with an empty casket ....

It was more than that.


Defending idiocy is equally idiotic, but AFAIK, there weren't any more actions taken by the team beyond what we already saw in the existing photos. Maybe there are, but they haven't come to light as of THU morning (US EST)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe D.
And here's another.

Air Force will take ‘appropriate action’ over viral POW/MIA emblem photo


Yep, different idiot, same level of stupid.

quote:

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR

Personally, I find it a disgrace and would love to see each and every one of them tossed out on their ass with dishonorable discharges. I performed many a funeral detail while active duty back in the 80's, over 80 of them and we always approached our duty with the utmost respect. We practiced for hours every day to make sure everything went off without a hitch, all shots as one, pall bearers carrying a sandbag loaded practice casket over and around obstacles, flags folded so many times that it could literally be performed with our eyes closed. We stayed on call, spent many a hour traveling on a bus to towns in 4 states performing our duty.

I don't know about tossing them out when retraining maybe be a legitimate option. There's been a lot invested in time and effort to get them to this point, and the remedial actions to correct their behavior may be all that's needed instead of tossing them out and starting over.


quote:

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR
Just shows me how far my Army is falling with the newer troops.


I guarantee you there was some retired E7 in 1986 looking at you and your peers saying the same thing. My grandfather said it about my father's troops. My dad said it about mine. You and I are saying/thinking it about these kids.

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RE: Funerals are FUN? - 2/20/2014 2:13:12 PM   
Joe D.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bayonetbrant

...

quote:

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR
Just shows me how far my Army is falling with the newer troops.


I guarantee you there was some retired E7 in 1986 looking at you and your peers saying the same thing. My grandfather said it about my father's troops. My dad said it about mine. You and I are saying/thinking it about these kids.


Yes, but your father and grandfather didn't have physical proof of it, but with today's social media we do!

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RE: Funerals are FUN? - 2/20/2014 4:16:26 PM   
Qwixt


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Empty casket group photo. Oh no, the horror. Time to hang them all.

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RE: Funerals are FUN? - 2/20/2014 4:35:07 PM   
Lecivius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Qwixt

Empty casket group photo. Oh no, the horror. Time to hang them all.



Hang them? No. Tar & feather? Perhaps. Exaggeration to try to distract is childish. If my guys had ever done something so completely idiotic, they would be wishing for the tar. Dreaming of the feathers. Fortunately, my bunch were a helluva lot more mature. Unfortunately, idiots can be found anywhere.

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RE: Funerals are FUN? - 2/20/2014 4:41:23 PM   
bayonetbrant

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bayonetbrant

...

quote:

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR
Just shows me how far my Army is falling with the newer troops.


I guarantee you there was some retired E7 in 1986 looking at you and your peers saying the same thing. My grandfather said it about my father's troops. My dad said it about mine. You and I are saying/thinking it about these kids.


Yes, but your father and grandfather didn't have physical proof of it, but with today's social media we do!

Yep - very true.

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RE: Funerals are FUN? - 2/20/2014 5:13:08 PM   
Joe D.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Qwixt

Empty casket group photo. Oh no, the horror. Time to hang them all.


Empty or not, there's still a US flag draped over it.


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RE: Funerals are FUN? - 2/20/2014 5:19:16 PM   
Qwixt


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius


quote:

ORIGINAL: Qwixt

Empty casket group photo. Oh no, the horror. Time to hang them all.



Hang them? No. Tar & feather? Perhaps. Exaggeration to try to distract is childish. If my guys had ever done something so completely idiotic, they would be wishing for the tar. Dreaming of the feathers. Fortunately, my bunch were a helluva lot more mature. Unfortunately, idiots can be found anywhere.


No, it's not. It highlights the stupidity of getting worked up over absolutely nothing. Most of them are pretty young too. The overreaction from this photo will far exceed the act as the people who show up only for things like this get their fake enraged act going, then immediately forget about the ones fighting after this quiets down. I am sure if you were in charge, things would be different and they would be in so much trouble. Of course, you are going to have to line up behind all the other awesome would be leaders of this group.

My company was tasked with providing a color guard parade type duty (only dress greens) in the early-mid 80s for commemorating the battle of the bulge in Belgium. I forget the city in belgium, but there was a monument and wreath laying ceremony. Anyway, we did not take it seriously. We were there to party like most GIs during that time. The history of it was completely lost on me at the time, and for all of the guys I imagine. Come show time we did fine. You could have probably snapped a few shots of us during a hung over practice that were inappropriate.

< Message edited by Qwixt -- 2/20/2014 8:35:20 PM >

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RE: Funerals are FUN? - 2/20/2014 5:33:06 PM   
Orm


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The main trouble here is that they photographed it and that the picture was made available to the public.

I am sure that there has been other incidents that has been a lot worse than these guys fooling around but it never made it to the general public. I find it hard to believe that young men behave properly at all times. They tend to blow steam and they also tend to forget that their actions has consequences in the future.

But what I think do not count for much since I have not fought for my country and I am a foreigner.


< Message edited by Orm -- 2/20/2014 6:34:10 PM >


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RE: Funerals are FUN? - 2/20/2014 5:57:20 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

The main trouble here is that they photographed it and that the picture was made available to the public.

I am sure that there has been other incidents that has been a lot worse than these guys fooling around but it never made it to the general public. I find it hard to believe that young men behave properly at all times. They tend to blow steam and they also tend to forget that their actions has consequences in the future.

But what I think do not count for much since I have not fought for my country and I am a foreigner.

warspite1

I 100% agree with this. I have to warn my little warspites about the dangers of the fact that everyone nowadays has a smartphone. What is recorded and posted on facebook or youtube or whatever, is a permanent record. You have to be careful.

To suggest that no one ever acted inappropriately in the past is nonsense - they just weren't caught on camera. I do not know whether those soldiers meant any disrespect - but would be very surprised if that were the case.


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RE: Funerals are FUN? - 2/20/2014 7:13:10 PM   
Jevhaddah


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No funeral

Empty Casket

No story

Ho hum another over reaction by the PC brigade.

I wonder what they would say about an Irish or Scottish Wake ....

I consider myself fortunate to have a pusser bad taste sense of humour, it has seen me through some pretty bad times.

Cheers

Jev


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RE: Funerals are FUN? - 2/20/2014 7:32:57 PM   
WarHunter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: altipueri

Standing on the coffin at a funeral is not wakeboarding.

No standing on coffin. No FUNeral.
Why so scandalous?




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by WarHunter -- 2/20/2014 8:33:19 PM >


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RE: Funerals are FUN? - 2/20/2014 7:35:24 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
I 100% agree with this. I have to warn my little warspites about the dangers of the fact that everyone nowadays has a smartphone. What is recorded and posted on facebook or youtube or whatever, is a permanent record. You have to be careful.


Actually that is a good thing. In fact it's the main Youtube raison d'être, it explains why it's so popular. No matter how idiotic we think we are, there's always -and I mean always- some clown dumber than [put your name here]. Fact

God bless Youtube (I don't mention Facebook because I refuse to use that thing)

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RE: Funerals are FUN? - 2/20/2014 7:58:46 PM   
CarnageINC


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR

Personally, I find it a disgrace and would love to see each and every one of them tossed out on their ass with dishonorable discharges. I performed many a funeral detail while active duty back in the 80's, over 80 of them and we always approached our duty with the utmost respect. We practiced for hours every day to make sure everything went off without a hitch, all shots as one, pall bearers carrying a sandbag loaded practice casket over and around obstacles, flags folded so many times that it could literally be performed with our eyes closed. We stayed on call, spent many a hour traveling on a bus to towns in 4 states performing our duty.

Just shows me how far my Army is falling with the newer troops.


I do not condone what these guys did, like what byonetbrant said...their morons and should get slammed. But saying they deserve dishonorable discharges is IMO, over reacting. Soldiers who have seen combat do weird stuff to desensitize themselves from the harsh realities of death. This is just one of those cases I believe. If you drown yourself in the seriousness of it, it can really bring you down. I am 100% positive that these troops did their utmost professional duty to each and every individual they had the honor to bury in public.

I was fortunate enough that no one in my unit died in Desert Storm but we still seen death and partook in it. Cleaning up the aftermath was horrible and we did and said stupid stuff around each other to. But I will tell you, not once did we disgrace the dead in our duties.

I don't see this any different...it was a empty casket not an actual person. I find it tasteless and stupid to have it out in the open and they should be hammered down on but thats all.

And just one more thing 2ndACR...most of these soldiers in my Army today are some of the best that ever has been since the time of the 'greatest generation'. That you judge all of our Army by the actions of these knuckle heads is unfortunate for you and you don't see the true greatness of today's soldiers.

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RE: Funerals are FUN? - 2/20/2014 8:02:57 PM   
Lecivius


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"worked up over absolutely nothing"

I will say I have a serious problem with this thought.  I meant what I said.  Still do.  Always will.

"I find it tasteless and stupid to have it out in the open and they should be hammered down on but thats all."

Concur 100%

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RE: Funerals are FUN? - 2/20/2014 9:43:33 PM   
2ndACR


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Sorry, I disagree, I prefer to see them tossed. We showed respect to all OUR dead. Over my 3 combat tours I am extremely desensitized to enemy deaths which I could care less about. But let a soldier pop off while we bagged one of our own and I would lose it on their ass. There should never be any horse play while on funeral detail.....ever.

Be glad you did not lose anyone, I lost a good friend in Desert Storm and had to see his wife and kid when we got back to Germany and that sucked massively. Lost another in OIF3 to a IED, taking my place on a convoy when I was home on mid tour leave, that one still messes with me if I let it. As he had only run a few and I was always out there, I might have seen something and prevented it.

The thought of a care free attitude while on funeral detail churns my stomach. The idea that just prior to doing the detail at graveside one of these ass hats was saying "ashes to ashes, dust to dust, let's bury this ****er and get back on the bus" makes me see red.

< Message edited by 2ndACR -- 2/20/2014 10:44:23 PM >

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RE: Funerals are FUN? - 2/20/2014 10:56:46 PM   
sullafelix

 

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I agree with the hard asses on this.

We are told that it is an empty casket and I hope so.

The whole crux to me is the picture.

If they were fooling around and a superior saw it. I assume he would have taken care of it end of story.

To post this were families with loved ones is way over the top. We assume that they did their jobs with the proper respect, but if i was a family member I think I would have a nagging doubt.

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RE: Funerals are FUN? - 2/21/2014 2:03:07 AM   
bayonetbrant

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sulla05
We are told that it is an empty casket and I hope so.



It was the last day of training on how to perform funeral detail and they were taking a group photo around the casket. Apparently they did the serious group shot then someone decided to take a "goofy" one. Bad idea.

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