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wite, since massive update, v 1.07.11

 
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wite, since massive update, v 1.07.11 - 2/15/2014 12:30:35 AM   
charlie0311

 

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1. hi all, as you may have guessed, i bought wite, above version, as a xmas present to myself. and since i have plenty of time (retired), i've been having a gas with wite for over two months.

2. well, well, well. Don't take long to notice, really complex. Really complex. And so, have been studying the manual and all the threads.

3. have made a lot of progress with the axis. Still hardly a clue about the reds, organizing the army and factory evacs, to name two. Plenty of threads about these two but who knows how they apply to version .07.11.

4. I have been looking at the soviet OB for the 44-45 campaign for an idea of what to get to, but going from the 41 red army to the 44 version is looking like a monster project of trial an error.

5. When wite came out 2 years ago there was monster interest, thousands of posts/threads. Not so much anymore. All i can find is remarks about better morale for the soviets. In my lack of experience or even ignorance, i don't see it. Playing the present version, with reduced blizzard, i got decisive axis victory in 43. I did use 120 axis logistics because I didn't want to mess so much with supply. Presently, in my second campaign, using all normal settings, i am, if anything, busting up the reds even worse.

6. My intention is to become adept playing either side v AI, then to go for human opponent. For fun. I play slowly and may spend a week on one turn. There's a lot to do in '41.

7. I have a question, respectfully, for you more experienced guys. Pelton, Flavious, et al. Forget Comrade P (maybe that's Pelton). What happened, just lost interest? Maybe you know something, that I don't and are just waiting for wite2?

Post #: 1
RE: wite, since massive update, v 1.07.11 - 2/15/2014 2:09:29 AM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 7503
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
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Everything gets old after a while, is all. Even Civ5. I'm waiting on WITE2.

Right now my biggest hobby is getting back to my weekend binge fest of House of Cards.

_____________________________

WitE Alpha Tester

(in reply to charlie0311)
Post #: 2
RE: wite, since massive update, v 1.07.11 - 2/15/2014 4:00:28 AM   
Zantos

 

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I used to play Hearts of Iron 3 a lot. However after some time I became so familiar with the game mechanics that it no longer offered a challenge or any satisfying form of war simulation ( e.g. Starting a 1944 scenario as Germany and then defeating Russia by 1945. Come on, seriously? On very hard level? That's just nonsense. Of course the fault was that I had learned to game the system on a tactical, operational and strategic level. That said, however, HOI3 did provide me with many hours of enjoyable fun while I was still at noob and intermediate experience level. No doubt against a human player it would continue to be a great game, but perhaps unfortunately HOI3 does not lend itself well to multiplayer or PBEM.

I heard about WITE and thought "Aha! Perhaps this could fill the sad, blank, destitute, morally corrupt and depressingly void area in my life where the mighty Wehrmacht storm the gates of Leningrad, Moscow and Stalingrad in one Germanfanboi epic of such magnificent magnitude as to make Ayn Rand look like a communist sympathizer by comparison.

I haven't purchased WITE yet. I was almost sold after reading the commercial reviews, but having read the AARs and other comments in this forum I have been hesitant. Plus I know one must NEVER trust commercial reviews. Nor even semi-commericial/amateur reviews, seeing as many of these are written by innocuously helpful people who, however, do not seriously play the game, basing their review upon insignificant playing time. The best way to see what a game is really like, in my view, is to read the AARs.

Some of my concerns (bear in mind that these are from someone who hasn't actually played the game yet, but are based on what I have read in this forum). ( So some of my remarks may be totally out of whack. Like the cam-belt in my car's engine.)

1) Endless updates. There seems to be a pattern of updates, all of which appear to have offered hope in improving the game (bugs and balancing issues) yet seem to fail to appease a significant number of players. It may well be that those who are not happy with the updates merely tend to be more vocal and outspoken on this forum. Indeed some players to the contrary approve of certain updates. But when I read about how arbitrary rules regarding national morale have not been fixed, inconsistencies with armament production and manpower, the inability of players to alter AI controlled replacement priories, some weird thing about a mysterious 1:1=1:2 rule (or is it the other way around?), etc, it makes me go... "Hmmm, wait a minute...."

2) One week turns for a game of this scale? Wouldn't half week turns be more appropriate? Yeah, I know, thousands of units to move, imaging doubling the "workload" on the players, perhaps that is just too much to reasonably ask. Nonetheless it grates on me a bit to see the mighty surges and ripostes posted in AAR's that seem to strain the borders of credibility at times. I have seen a major complaint regarding what some players call the "Lvov pocket", which may be (imho) merely a dysfunction caused by having one week turns. Players can simply achieve unchallenged thrusts of unrealistic proportions. With that comes my third and final point...

3) House rules. I see many PBEM setups have house rules. I detest them. Violently. However given the state of the game it appears that many players feel the need to introduce house rules ( eg No "Lvov pocket", no paratroops, no bombing HQs, no airfield spam, etc. No. Goddammit! No way. If players feel the need to introduce house rules then there is definitely something rotten in the state of Denmark. If a game is running well then there should be no need for house rules. The player base should not have to resort to house rules to balance perceived deficiencies. That's like having the dentist perform brain surgery.

I really want to play WITE. I want to set those Panzers free. FREE! To advance and frolic upon the steppes of Mother Russia. FREE! To wander as nature and God intended, surrounding and mopping up obstinate Rifle brigades. FREE! TO splash playfully in the oilfields of Grozny and quench their thirst at Maikop.

But I hesitate to commit the time (and money) to WITE for the reasons above. Now I hear there is a WITW in the pipeline and possibly a WITE2 as well?

Quite honestly as it stands I think I would be inclined to wait for those.

(...although the urging to set those Panzers FREE keeps gnawing on me, much like the cat, I should feed it sometime.).

Correct me if I am wrong, but like the OP in this thread, I am in need of some clarification.

Should I wait for this mysterious WITW and deliverance at the hands of a mystical WITE2, if so what would the time frame be?

Perhaps I should sate my underdog urgings on CW2 instead. I would say "DAMN THOSE YANKEES, SIR! WE MARCH ON GETTYSBURG!"



< Message edited by Zantos -- 2/15/2014 7:00:21 AM >

(in reply to Flaviusx)
Post #: 3
RE: wite, since massive update, v 1.07.11 - 2/15/2014 6:40:41 AM   
Zantos

 

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Just reread my post (and corrected some spelling etc).

It may appear to some to be a bit negative and critical, especially considering I have not shelled out the hard yards to actually buy and play the game.

Just to balance things out I would like to add that I am absolutely astonished at the sheer quality of the posts in this forum. There are many very knowledgeable and enthusiastic players here. I have thoroughly enjoyed reading through many of the threads, even though at times the subject matter has bordered upon the arcane for a non-player such as myself (Just what on Earth is this 1:1=2:1 rule and what does it mean? What the Hell does TOE mean?). Similarly I am impressed by the effort staff put into answering tech questions.

Many of the debates and arguments I have read in this forum have been very thought provoking, from people questioning historical accuracy, debating game balance, to as abstract as game design philosophy. Fascinating stuff. I have probably learned more about the facets of the Eastern front conflict and game design here in one week than I have over years anywhere else.

I would be deeply honored to have any of you Gentlemen here as opponents if and when the time comes to indulge my war-gaming escapism. If I do not see you over the snowdrifts near the gates of Moscow, then perhaps it will be over the other side of the Shenandoah valley.

(in reply to Zantos)
Post #: 4
RE: wite, since massive update, v 1.07.11 - 2/15/2014 3:53:26 PM   
charlie0311

 

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Joined: 12/20/2013
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1. rereading my post above, i said "forget" comrade p, what i meant to say was "forgot". one keystroke changed the whole meaning.

2. I refer to the guy who did the tutorial with wit and dare i say, charm. What i meant, Sir, is to say i stand in awe.

3. And to go even further, all you guys, designers, alpha and bets testers, you have have achieved something far beyond my meager intellectual capacity.

4. That should be plenty of butt kissing.

5. domestic affairs call so by for now, but coming soon, so what ifs.

(in reply to Zantos)
Post #: 5
RE: wite, since massive update, v 1.07.11 - 2/17/2014 4:25:55 PM   
GamesaurusRex


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IMO:

WITE is very playable and enjoyable as of the last .11 patch. It still has problems, but they are not fatal and can be cured by house rules and tweaking the optional settings that are available in the game.

Yes there are still issues and you will have to play the game a few times to get a feel for what HRs and adjustments you will have to make to get a balanced game (for PvP games), but I feel it is doable. There is currently no other East Front computer game on this scale available elsewhere (until WITE 2.0 comes out).

I like it.



(in reply to charlie0311)
Post #: 6
RE: wite, since massive update, v 1.07.11 - 2/18/2014 2:24:31 PM   
Wuffer

 

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TOE = table of Equipment, for example http://www.niehorster.orbat.com/011_germany/41_organ_army/41_id_01-welle.html

That must be a new record - ranting about 1=1 or Lvow without even owning the stuff... :-)

So, after realizing that any AI is just another word for a huge waste of time, what did you expect to hear?
short answer: ask Loki, why he has to reload AI-Gemany's manpower in his HOI-days and now fights for survival in WitE?

longish answer:
This game is built for a human opponent, ok, but as I could promise you, at some part and some stage you will always play the engine.

This is not a simulation. And it never could be, no matter what the devs say, as any game is always an abstraction and therefore you will find your can of worms if you only dig deep enough. The more details, the worser it get: a very slight inaccuracy here or there, not just an error, but an imprecision of say 0,5% accumulates over 200 turns - but, hey, how would you 'simulate' a firefight between a halfstarved, undersupplied russian riflesquad with machinepistols against a halffrozen, undersupplied german infantrysquad, which is mainly equiped with bolt action rifles, but which real firepower relies on a multipurpose quickfiring machinegun? In cities, woods or in the open steppe? In the defense or in the attack? In rainy mud or in freezing blizzard?
A continuing support of updates becomes in this logic not just a sign of something 'rotten', but could reflect some necessary adjustments or finetuning based of a LOT of gameplays.

And don't forget Stalin, of course.
The whole debacle is alone Stalin's fault.
As a German you would never let yourself trapped in Stalingrad, of course...
But as a Sowjet, you will of course attack nonstop no matter the costs of lives nor equipment, you will even forbit your men to dig themselves in, won't you?
Or would you retreat?
Retreat into swamps, behind rivers, running away from the German army, because you have the knowledge of the coming mud saison and your winteroffensive...

"This is total unhistoric!" cries the German player and soon a new discussion is opened around around a biased developers team.


You don't trust commercials, which I like, but don't believe all the stuff written in forums by some people to whom no one would ever listen in real life.

try it or leave it.
I would say: try it, and if it's only stopping you from waste your lifetime playing against HOI's AI ????????

if you want daily turns, check out War in The Pacific: Admirals Edition. WitP:AE, same forum here. But beware, it's a real MONSTER




(in reply to GamesaurusRex)
Post #: 7
RE: wite, since massive update, v 1.07.11 - 2/18/2014 5:17:55 PM   
Aurelian

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wuffer



And don't forget Stalin, of course.
The whole debacle is alone Stalin's fault.
As a German you would never let yourself trapped in Stalingrad, of course...
But as a Sowjet, you will of course attack nonstop no matter the costs of lives nor equipment, you will even forbit your men to dig themselves in, won't you?
Or would you retreat?
Retreat into swamps, behind rivers, running away from the German army, because you have the knowledge of the coming mud saison and your winteroffensive...

"This is total unhistoric!" cries the German player and soon a new discussion is opened around around a biased developers team.





So is the unhistoric taking of Lgrad and Moscow in 41. But they cry foul if you try and make them follow Hitler's orders from Turn 1 like they want the Soviets to follow Stalin's from turn 1.

_____________________________


(in reply to Wuffer)
Post #: 8
RE: wite, since massive update, v 1.07.11 - 2/22/2014 3:29:48 PM   
charlie0311

 

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1. Looks like this thread is over.
2. I'm willing to play the game "as is".
3. there's something wrong with setting upgrades to manual or automatic in the CR, commander's report, for aircraft, soviet. I'm going to leave it on automatic and let the luftwaffe blow the crap away.
4. sometimes, for some obscure reason, german rr repair stops working. Make sure it's in supply and on the fixed railhead, then they start working again in a week or two or so, not sure.
5. for Zantos. i think the game has what you want so go ahead and jump in. I bet the game will still have "annoyances" even when wite2 comes out.
6. Sincere thanks to all who have posted on all the various topics,

(in reply to Aurelian)
Post #: 9
RE: wite, since massive update, v 1.07.11 - 2/22/2014 11:52:47 PM   
Zantos

 

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Not quite over, that is if you dont mind me co-opting your thread, Charlie.

In the intervening time since I last posted I tried the demo version of Ageod's Alea Jacta Est. To see how I liked the Aegod engine (Simultaneous turns? It has to be good, surely. Drool.) But even more so to see if it would run on my laptop. It did, but incredibly slowly, and occasionally the computer would turn itself off from overheating. So I would assume from this that Ageods's Civil War 2 would also run slowly and be prone to eventually giving my laptop's processor nervous breakdown. Marching upon Gettysburg may well have to wait. I say "Damn those Yankees, Sir, damn them."

(Interesting to note that one of this forum's best AAR writers, Qball, is also a CW AAR writer. I followed his accounts with great interest and noted that CW2 is far from perfect either.)

So obviously I need to convince the gf that a new computer (faster, better, stronger) is an ideal birthday present. I am sure she will agree with the pragmatism of this choice.

So, for now, with the road to Gettysburg hopelessly obscured by the pall of smoke arising from my motherboard, the eyes of Zantos are once more drawn, predatory-like, unto the Eastern front.

I appreciate the comments by Wuffer and Gamersaurusrex. Indeed, the AI is useful for learning the game, but nothing can compare to the low cunning of a human brain. However I hope that indeed the AI of Wite is a notch above that of HOI3. I did suggest somewhere upon the Paradox forums that they replace the AI with "wet wired" humans. Paid employees whose appendages have been surgically removed, are fed nutrients via tubes, and who exist solely, by grace of a fine network of wires inserted into their neural cortex, to provide gamers around the world with a viable online opponent at all times.

They thought I was joking. The Philistines.

The clincher for me is that Wite does appear to the very best Eastern Front game, despite its flaws (just read something more about some "swap" feature that ensured that Qball practically ran out of Anti tank weapons.) But what puts the icing on top is that it seems to have a relatively seamless PBEM system. I see recent posters advertising for opponents and this gives me hope that an investment of time and money in Wite will be rewarded with the opportunity to have my armies surrounded and destroyed by a measure of low cunning induced by a human, rather than defeat incurred by an AI that insists that I can not equip my divisions with 75mm AT guns because there is still one single 37mm AT gun still on their books.

HOI3, as I mentioned, is a fine game at noob level, until you discover you can pull off stunts like invading Japan as Nationalist China and win by 1939. (The IJN will sail off the coast of Guam quite happily forever while you transport two divisions at a time to Japan.) Of course this sort of nonsense would not occur against a human. But given that HOI3 multiplayer must occur in real time (there is no PBEM option) and given that any multiplayer game must have the same version of the game ( HOI3 versions proliferate like unruly mobs at Boxing day sales) and that there is still usually an array of annoying house rules that must be agreed upon, the answer is clear. Multiplayer in HOI3 is a pain in the ass.

Gentlemen. You have convinced me. I need to purchase and play Wite.

You gentlemen need to learn the meaning of Blitzkreig. And I, the mighty Zantos, shall teach it to you. Soon your cities will be reduced to rubble. Your armies distraught, in tatters, in retreat, their weapons thrown away, their spirit broken. Your women shall weep as I enslave your nation, which ever nation that may be. I will build statues of me wherever I go.

(Just give me a while to learn how to do it, okay? Fair is fair after all. And fix that thing about anti tank "swap" rule, or whatever it is, I may need those weapons to add ornamental value to my statues.)


(in reply to charlie0311)
Post #: 10
RE: wite, since massive update, v 1.07.11 - 3/4/2014 9:55:16 PM   
charlie0311

 

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1. version 1.07.12 beta, playing axis v ai
2. march 42, manual says snow, game says blizzard, that should get fixed.
3. reduced blizzard effects in use, building FZ, fortified zones is a much better proposition now. See the massive update announcement for particulars.
4. More kudos to Matrix, was using download version, uninstalled it and tried to install from hard disc, that didn't work, couldn't get the hard disc to install. Matrix fixed me right up. Running .12 beta now as above.
5. Going to opponents now for PBEM, see you there.

(in reply to Zantos)
Post #: 11
RE: wite, since massive update, v 1.07.11 - 3/5/2014 5:57:42 AM   
morvael


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From: Poland
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Please remember to apply the .13 hotfix: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3499563

(in reply to charlie0311)
Post #: 12
RE: wite, since massive update, v 1.07.11 - 3/5/2014 2:16:41 PM   
charlie0311

 

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1. just spent an hour blathering, tried to send, browser bailed.
2. Here's the short version.
3. Not a clue on how to do, install, unzip, whatever, this hot fix. Tried and failed.

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 13
RE: wite, since massive update, v 1.07.11 - 3/5/2014 6:41:48 PM   
morvael


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Maybe someone will help you. The hotfix is a zip (compressed archive) that has the game executable file inside. This file has to be unpacked and saved to the game's main directory, overwriting the original .12 executable. If you are not overwriting that file in the process it means you are saving the unpacked executable in wrong place.

(in reply to charlie0311)
Post #: 14
RE: wite, since massive update, v 1.07.11 - 3/5/2014 6:43:02 PM   
morvael


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Always copy post text before you click "post" button, as writing a long post takes a lot of time and your session may be invalidated in that time, especially if you browse the forum using another tab in the browser.

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 15
RE: wite, since massive update, v 1.07.11 - 3/5/2014 7:01:45 PM   
HermanGraf

 

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I downloaded latest patch via the installer when I bought the game a few days ago, do I need to install another patch?

(in reply to charlie0311)
Post #: 16
RE: wite, since massive update, v 1.07.11 - 3/5/2014 7:09:11 PM   
mbar


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HermanGraf

I downloaded latest patch via the installer when I bought the game a few days ago, do I need to install another patch?


No. your games gets the latest patch with the updater.

(in reply to HermanGraf)
Post #: 17
RE: wite, since massive update, v 1.07.11 - 3/5/2014 7:16:57 PM   
charlie0311

 

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1. i am typing in the window right below your last message.
2. i get here after login, then war room for wite, then the thread (i guess it is) for massive update v1.07.11.
3. i see no obvious way to copy anything.
4. the sad fact is that i am computer illiterate.
5. i want to remark that i see your post all over and admire your enthusiasm.
6. maybe i can get some help from matrix.
7. fooling around in my ignorance has resulted such that now i have v.11 running, no .12beta.
8. what matrix should do is be able to just take control of the home computer and do the fix up themselves, instead of trying to send obscure (to me) instructions.
9. not to complain, i am enjoying the game despite.

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 18
RE: wite, since massive update, v 1.07.11 - 3/5/2014 7:18:17 PM   
morvael


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mbar


quote:

ORIGINAL: HermanGraf

I downloaded latest patch via the installer when I bought the game a few days ago, do I need to install another patch?


No. your games gets the latest patch with the updater.


Wouldn't that be only the latest official patch, not the latest beta patch?

Links to patch .12 and hotfix .13 are here:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3563142&mpage=1�

(in reply to mbar)
Post #: 19
RE: wite, since massive update, v 1.07.11 - 3/5/2014 7:24:02 PM   
morvael


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quote:

ORIGINAL: charlie0311

3. i see no obvious way to copy anything.


Clicking right mouse button on the white text field will bring up a context popup menu that let's you select all text in the window and copy it to clipboard. If something goes wrong and you are again in front of the white text field that is empty you can bring that menu again and paste it from clipboard. The same effect can be obtained by pressing ctrl+A (to select all), ctrl+C (to copy) and ctrl+V (to paste), if you prefer keyboard to mouse.

(in reply to charlie0311)
Post #: 20
RE: wite, since massive update, v 1.07.11 - 3/5/2014 8:22:05 PM   
Tarhunnas


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Or better still, write your post in notepad or something and then paste the text into the edit window when you're finished.

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 21
RE: wite, since massive update, v 1.07.11 - 3/6/2014 12:30:50 PM   
charlie0311

 

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1. have a system registry error, will get help from matrix.
2. probably will be able to do long posts now, not today, thx for tips.
3. going to play russkies v ai for awhile, i have the axis, pretty well, wired.
4. i love this interactive stuff.

(in reply to Tarhunnas)
Post #: 22
RE: wite, since massive update, v 1.07.11 - 3/9/2014 2:47:40 PM   
charlie0311

 

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1. ready for PBEM.
2. what does PM me mean?
3. tarhunnas, easy to say, paste into edit window, HUH?

(in reply to charlie0311)
Post #: 23
RE: wite, since massive update, v 1.07.11 - 3/9/2014 4:16:18 PM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 5701
Joined: 7/25/2010
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If you look at a post, there are three buttons underneath it. The email button allows you to send an email to the registered email address of the poster. The pm will send a message through the forum (along with a notice to the registered email address) that will be flagged to the poster the next time they login. The last button is buddy and will allow you to build a list of people where it is easy to follow their posts.

Paste into the edit window is to highlight and copy the contents of the editor you are working in to the clipboard (usually highlight the text and then ctrl-c for Windows). You can then switch to this edit window and hit ctrl-v to copy the clipboard into this window without typing it all over again. The advantage is to use a better editor - such as notepad, wordpad, or MS Word - and then transfer it easily into the forum. I do all of my AARs in other editors and then copy and paste them into the forum.

(in reply to charlie0311)
Post #: 24
RE: wite, since massive update, v 1.07.11 - 3/9/2014 9:11:49 PM   
charlie0311

 

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1. thx carlkay, most excellent.
2. too bad you're not sitting here, I'd get it right away.
3. Sounds like, a. write something b. zap it to clipboard c. then zap to a window such as this one.
4. Will give it a go.

(in reply to carlkay58)
Post #: 25
RE: wite, since massive update, v 1.07.11 - 3/14/2014 1:31:07 PM   
Tuhhodge

 

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I have just started playing again after months out. I'm using v1.07.12 beta overlaying the v1.07.11 patch.

Playing as the Germans I have found the game noticeably different in the opening phases. Is the Soviet AI retreat logic different? I keep overrunning airbases to an extent that never used to happen!

A more general question about the AI: as an experiment I did not advance on Turn 1. At the start of Turn 2 the air recon revealed that the AI had retreated all units as if the invasion had started. This is a shame. I had hoped to experiment with varied tactics but it seems this isn't possible if the AI is so rigidly programmed.

(in reply to charlie0311)
Post #: 26
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