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Command HQ prep - 2/12/2014 7:28:58 PM   
jay102

 

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Do Command HQs really need prepare for an enemy base first to offer the assault bonus there?

In the Downfall scenario, the whole V US Amphibi Corp( including 3 marine divisions, 1 Corp HQ, 1 amphib HQ, several Arty, Arm and Eng) have all perfectly prepared for Kanoya for 50 points on day 1, however the Southwest Pacific HQ(the nearest Command HQ sit at Okinawa) has nothing prepared. I think the designer has no reason to leave it unprepared if the assault bonus is tied to Command HQ's prep level.

Another thought makes me skeptic about the Command HQ prep is, with it in mind, player can do some very unrealistic behaviour like concentrating all Command HQ(with different target prepared) to front line base. I guess designers probably won't like see that.

< Message edited by jay102 -- 2/12/2014 10:19:11 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Command HQ prep - 2/12/2014 8:29:24 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jay102

Do Command HQs really need prepare for an enemy base first to offer the assault bonus there?

In the Downfall scenario, the whole V US Amphibi Corp( including 3 marine divisions, 1 Corp HQ, 1 amphib HQ, several Arty, Arm and Eng) have all perfectly prepared for Kanoya for 50 points on day 1, however the Southwest Pacific HQ(the nearest Command HQ sit at Okinawa) has nothing prepared. I think the designer has no reason to leave it unprepared if the assault bonus is tied to Command HQ's prep level.

Another thought makes me skeptic about the Command HQ prep is, with it in mind, player can do some very unrealistic behaviour like concentrating all Command HQ to one front line base. I guess designers probably won't like see that.


My understanding is that multiple HQs of the same type don't confer stacking bonuses.

I think the Command HQ bonus can go above and beyond the corps or army HQ bonus to assault value, but you can't have multiple Command HQs each giving a bonus. Or multiple corps/army HQs (whichever gives the bonus...is it both?).

At least that's my understanding.

(in reply to jay102)
Post #: 2
RE: Command HQ prep - 2/12/2014 8:37:11 PM   
jay102

 

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I think you may misunderstood.I'm not talking about stacking bonus from multiple Command HQs. I mean whether a Command HQ need prepare for an enemey base first(pass the prep check) to grant the additional 90% assault bonus above the bonus from Corp/Army HQ.

< Message edited by jay102 -- 2/13/2014 10:01:34 AM >

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 3
RE: Command HQ prep - 2/12/2014 8:58:42 PM   
Lokasenna


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Ah, I thought you were asking two questions. I meant to be answering the one here:
quote:

Another thought makes me skeptic about the Command HQ prep is, with it in mind, player can do some very unrealistic behaviour like concentrating all Command HQ to one front line base. I guess designers probably won't like see that.


As to whether a Command HQ needs prep... I've always just assumed that it does. Maybe that's only for defending, though - that's all prep does for local LCUs, I think. I haven't checked this section of the manual in some time.

(in reply to jay102)
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RE: Command HQ prep - 2/13/2014 12:55:01 AM   
Capt Hornblower


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Although divining the intent of the designers from the content of the manual can be fraught with danger , I interpret the HEADQUARTERS and OBJECTIVES subsections of the GROUND UNITS section of the manual to mean that the primary utility of the unit OBJECTIVE button is to prepare combat units and their immediately involved headquarters for assaulting (or defending) particular hexes. Command HQs within 2x their command radius impart a bonus (explicitly mentioned in the manual), but there is no explicit statement to the effect that a Command HQ must have the objective hex designated in order for the bonus to be awarded. (In fact, I would find such a requirement to be counterintuitive, since Command (i.e., Theater) HQs should quite often be involved in planning multiple operations simultaneously.)

(in reply to Lokasenna)
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RE: Command HQ prep - 2/13/2014 1:40:43 AM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jay102

Do Command HQs really need prepare for an enemy base first to offer the assault bonus there?

In the Downfall scenario, the whole V US Amphibi Corp( including 3 marine divisions, 1 Corp HQ, 1 amphib HQ, several Arty, Arm and Eng) have all perfectly prepared for Kanoya for 50 points on day 1, however the Southwest Pacific HQ(the nearest Command HQ sit at Okinawa) has nothing prepared. I think the designer has no reason to leave it unprepared if the assault bonus is tied to Command HQ's prep level.

Another thought makes me skeptic about the Command HQ prep is, with it in mind, player can do some very unrealistic behaviour like concentrating all Command HQ(with different target prepared) to front line base. I guess designers probably won't like see that.


Your assumptions are incorrect.

For a LCU to get the combat bonus, it and the HQs must have the same objective.

Patch 1 (from 2009) makes it very clear.

77. Gameplay Change: When calculating the bonus for land unit planning for a target, the land unit and its HQs (corps and command) must be planning for same target to get the full HQ bonuses.

Otherwise there would be far too many gamey loopholes.

Alfred

(in reply to jay102)
Post #: 6
RE: Command HQ prep - 2/13/2014 7:13:06 AM   
Chris21wen

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: jay102

Do Command HQs really need prepare for an enemy base first to offer the assault bonus there?

In the Downfall scenario, the whole V US Amphibi Corp( including 3 marine divisions, 1 Corp HQ, 1 amphib HQ, several Arty, Arm and Eng) have all perfectly prepared for Kanoya for 50 points on day 1, however the Southwest Pacific HQ(the nearest Command HQ sit at Okinawa) has nothing prepared. I think the designer has no reason to leave it unprepared if the assault bonus is tied to Command HQ's prep level.

Another thought makes me skeptic about the Command HQ prep is, with it in mind, player can do some very unrealistic behaviour like concentrating all Command HQ(with different target prepared) to front line base. I guess designers probably won't like see that.


Your assumptions are incorrect.

For a LCU to get the combat bonus, it and the HQs must have the same objective.

Patch 1 (from 2009) makes it very clear.

77. Gameplay Change: When calculating the bonus for land unit planning for a target, the land unit and its HQs (corps and command) must be planning for same target to get the full HQ bonuses.

Otherwise there would be far too many gamey loopholes.

Alfred


From this I've always assumed that it does not matter how many prep points the HQ has to receive this bonus. But the manual implies PPs do matter?

< Message edited by Chris H -- 2/13/2014 8:18:15 AM >

(in reply to Alfred)
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RE: Command HQ prep - 2/13/2014 7:36:15 AM   
JocMeister

 

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As I understands it the more PP the greater chance for the HQ to pass its check(s?)?

Both the Command and Corp HQ has to pass their checks to pass in order for the 90% bonus to apply. Having 20 PP for a target would give you a significant lower chance to pass those checks than if you had 100PP. If both HQ only have 20 PPs for a target I would assume chances for both to pass their checks would be slim. I have failed the check on occasions despite a 100/100 prepp.

That at least how it was explained to me. Sounds reasonable!

(in reply to Chris21wen)
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RE: Command HQ prep - 2/13/2014 10:54:30 AM   
jay102

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

As I understands it the more PP the greater chance for the HQ to pass its check(s?)?

Both the Command and Corp HQ has to pass their checks to pass in order for the 90% bonus to apply. Having 20 PP for a target would give you a significant lower chance to pass those checks than if you had 100PP. If both HQ only have 20 PPs for a target I would assume chances for both to pass their checks would be slim. I have failed the check on occasions despite a 100/100 prepp.

That at least how it was explained to me. Sounds reasonable!


quote:

Patch 1 (from 2009) makes it very clear.

77. Gameplay Change: When calculating the bonus for land unit planning for a target, the land unit and its HQs (corps and command) must be planning for same target to get the full HQ bonuses.


According to Alfred's explanation, a failed check despite a 100/100 may caused by the mismatched command hierachy. LCUs may only get full bonuses when its own corp/command HQs have prepared for the same target and passed the check. This could sound reasonable.

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 9
RE: Command HQ prep - 2/13/2014 11:53:33 AM   
guytipton41


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jay102


quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

As I understands it the more PP the greater chance for the HQ to pass its check(s?)?

Both the Command and Corp HQ has to pass their checks to pass in order for the 90% bonus to apply. Having 20 PP for a target would give you a significant lower chance to pass those checks than if you had 100PP. If both HQ only have 20 PPs for a target I would assume chances for both to pass their checks would be slim. I have failed the check on occasions despite a 100/100 prepp.

That at least how it was explained to me. Sounds reasonable!


quote:

Patch 1 (from 2009) makes it very clear.

77. Gameplay Change: When calculating the bonus for land unit planning for a target, the land unit and its HQs (corps and command) must be planning for same target to get the full HQ bonuses.


According to Alfred's explanation, a failed check despite a 100/100 may caused by the mismatched command hierachy. LCUs may only get full bonuses when its own corp/command HQs have prepared for the same target and passed the check. This could sound reasonable.


Hi Folks

If I was writing the code I would not have made the bonus a sure thing. I would have started out with a simple chance - like half - that the good effect would occur. Then the other variable would be taken into account. After a few dozen test runs I would look at the distribution of combat results and tweak the initial value if the results didn't look good. There is no real-world data that could be used to calibrate this algo - you wind up with gut feel. So don't over think the problem!

Cheers
Guy

(in reply to jay102)
Post #: 10
RE: Command HQ prep - 2/13/2014 5:38:59 PM   
JocMeister

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jay102
According to Alfred's explanation, a failed check despite a 100/100 may caused by the mismatched command hierachy. LCUs may only get full bonuses when its own corp/command HQs have prepared for the same target and passed the check. This could sound reasonable.


If that is indeed what Alfred means that does not match my own experience with the game.

From my experience as long as you have a Command/HQ combo prepped you can get the bonus regardless of to what HQs the troops are attached to. I have received the bonus on countless occasions with a grand mismatch of troops attached to a myriad of diffrent HQs. Its the Command/Corp combo that matters. The only thing that matters for the LCUs is that they are prepped for the same target as the HQ combo.

< Message edited by JocMeister -- 2/13/2014 6:45:40 PM >

(in reply to jay102)
Post #: 11
RE: Command HQ prep - 2/13/2014 9:40:31 PM   
SqzMyLemon


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I've always wondered if the 90% bonus applies only to the attacker or does the defender get a similar bonus when fully prepped for defending a base?

< Message edited by SqzMyLemon -- 2/13/2014 10:40:50 PM >


_____________________________

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RE: Command HQ prep - 2/15/2014 5:01:00 AM   
Alfred

 

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Answers to the follow up questions.

1.  The change log #77 from patch 1 was worded clumsily.  It is not to be inferred that the Chain of Command must be followed.  The "its HQs" was meant to mean the applicable HQs which are within range of the LCU and intended to assist.

2.  Defenders can also gain the combat bonus.  This means that when defending a base, even units with no attacking assault value devices should still have the base as their objective because when defending support type squads are counted as having an assault value of 1/10 for odds calculations.

3.  Being 100% prepped for an objective is not in itself a 100% guarantee that the combat bonuses will be present.  Leader ratings also modify the availability and quantum of combat bonuses received.  A Command HQ can give a combat bonus within the range of 0% to 90%.  A Corps HQ can give a combat bonus within the range of 0% to 10%.  Having both Command and Corps HQs within range and at 100% prepped value, can give a combat bonus within the range 0% to 100%.

4.  In determining whether the HQs may provide a combat bonus, both the level and target of the HQ objective is checked.  See BigJ62's last post in this thread

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2223071&mpage=1&key=objective&#2223504

which is the only reference from a dev I have ever tracked down which expands on what the manual states on page 178.

5.  In practical terms, where time is not critical, the desirable prepped thresholds are:

for an atoll invasion - 100%, although anything above 80% might be OK if the landing troops have minimal disruption and the defenders are badly disrupted/fatigued etc
for land combat not in base - anything as objectives do not apply outside of base hexes
for land combat in a base - ideally 100% but anything above 50% will probably be of some value


The closer to 100% prepped for LCU and applicable HQs, the better it is.  However any level below 30 is almost guaranteed to be of no value.

Alfred

(in reply to SqzMyLemon)
Post #: 13
RE: Command HQ prep - 2/15/2014 5:50:06 AM   
Chris21wen

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Answers to the follow up questions.

1.  The change log #77 from patch 1 was worded clumsily.  It is not to be inferred that the Chain of Command must be followed.  The "its HQs" was meant to mean the applicable HQs which are within range of the LCU and intended to assist.

2.  Defenders can also gain the combat bonus.  This means that when defending a base, even units with no attacking assault value devices should still have the base as their objective because when defending support type squads are counted as having an assault value of 1/10 for odds calculations.

3.  Being 100% prepped for an objective is not in itself a 100% guarantee that the combat bonuses will be present.  Leader ratings also modify the availability and quantum of combat bonuses received.  A Command HQ can give a combat bonus within the range of 0% to 90%.  A Corps HQ can give a combat bonus within the range of 0% to 10%.  Having both Command and Corps HQs within range and at 100% prepped value, can give a combat bonus within the range 0% to 100%.

4.  In determining whether the HQs may provide a combat bonus, both the level and target of the HQ objective is checked.  See BigJ62's last post in this thread

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2223071&mpage=1&key=objective�

which is the only reference from a dev I have ever tracked down which expands on what the manual states on page 178.

5.  In practical terms, where time is not critical, the desirable prepped thresholds are:

for an atoll invasion - 100%, although anything above 80% might be OK if the landing troops have minimal disruption and the defenders are badly disrupted/fatigued etc
for land combat not in base - anything as objectives do not apply outside of base hexes
for land combat in a base - ideally 100% but anything above 50% will probably be of some value


The closer to 100% prepped for LCU and applicable HQs, the better it is.  However any level below 30 is almost guaranteed to be of no value.

Alfred


I'm assuming from this that Army HQ are treated as Corps HQ.

(in reply to Alfred)
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RE: Command HQ prep - 2/15/2014 6:49:18 AM   
LoBaron


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I love your precise and clear explanations, Alfred.

On thing to add, as I think this is misinterpreted very often:

The bonus/malus display in the combat report is per unit. If a single unit in th ehex receives the HQ bonus it is listed, even if there are 5 other units in the hex who did not receive the bonus.
(this is very similar to others such as supply (-). If just a single unit in a hex is out of supply, for whatever reason, the CR shows the supply (-). This is important to keep in mind when drawing conclusions about battle results with large numbers of units involved.)

_____________________________


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RE: Command HQ prep - 2/15/2014 10:18:14 AM   
Gaspote


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Answers to the follow up questions.

1.  The change log #77 from patch 1 was worded clumsily.  It is not to be inferred that the Chain of Command must be followed.  The "its HQs" was meant to mean the applicable HQs which are within range of the LCU and intended to assist.

2.  Defenders can also gain the combat bonus.  This means that when defending a base, even units with no attacking assault value devices should still have the base as their objective because when defending support type squads are counted as having an assault value of 1/10 for odds calculations.

3.  Being 100% prepped for an objective is not in itself a 100% guarantee that the combat bonuses will be present.  Leader ratings also modify the availability and quantum of combat bonuses received.  A Command HQ can give a combat bonus within the range of 0% to 90%.  A Corps HQ can give a combat bonus within the range of 0% to 10%.  Having both Command and Corps HQs within range and at 100% prepped value, can give a combat bonus within the range 0% to 100%.

4.  In determining whether the HQs may provide a combat bonus, both the level and target of the HQ objective is checked.  See BigJ62's last post in this thread

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2223071&mpage=1&key=objective�

which is the only reference from a dev I have ever tracked down which expands on what the manual states on page 178.

5.  In practical terms, where time is not critical, the desirable prepped thresholds are:

for an atoll invasion - 100%, although anything above 80% might be OK if the landing troops have minimal disruption and the defenders are badly disrupted/fatigued etc
for land combat not in base - anything as objectives do not apply outside of base hexes
for land combat in a base - ideally 100% but anything above 50% will probably be of some value


The closer to 100% prepped for LCU and applicable HQs, the better it is.  However any level below 30 is almost guaranteed to be of no value.

Alfred


I'm not sure to understand correctly so I ask with an example.

25th Army HQ and all of these ground units are 100% prep for Singapore. Southern Army is 100% prep for Singapore.

A) If Southern Army is in 1x range of command. Does it act like a Corps so the bonus will be 10+10+90 (Army+Corps+Command) ?

B) If Southern Army is in 2x range of command. It won't act like a Corps so does the bonus is of 10% (just Army because there are no Corps in range) ?

C) If a SNLF of combined fleet 100% prep for Singapore is following 25th Army's HQ in case A. Does it will get a bonus ?

D) If allies counter-attack in case A, Does the bonus of Command HQ will be take into account (in case of defense) ?


< Message edited by Gaspote -- 2/15/2014 11:19:13 AM >

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 16
RE: Command HQ prep - 2/16/2014 12:45:08 AM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris H


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Answers to the follow up questions.

1.  The change log #77 from patch 1 was worded clumsily.  It is not to be inferred that the Chain of Command must be followed.  The "its HQs" was meant to mean the applicable HQs which are within range of the LCU and intended to assist.

2.  Defenders can also gain the combat bonus.  This means that when defending a base, even units with no attacking assault value devices should still have the base as their objective because when defending support type squads are counted as having an assault value of 1/10 for odds calculations.

3.  Being 100% prepped for an objective is not in itself a 100% guarantee that the combat bonuses will be present.  Leader ratings also modify the availability and quantum of combat bonuses received.  A Command HQ can give a combat bonus within the range of 0% to 90%.  A Corps HQ can give a combat bonus within the range of 0% to 10%.  Having both Command and Corps HQs within range and at 100% prepped value, can give a combat bonus within the range 0% to 100%.

4.  In determining whether the HQs may provide a combat bonus, both the level and target of the HQ objective is checked.  See BigJ62's last post in this thread

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2223071&mpage=1&key=objective?

which is the only reference from a dev I have ever tracked down which expands on what the manual states on page 178.

5.  In practical terms, where time is not critical, the desirable prepped thresholds are:

for an atoll invasion - 100%, although anything above 80% might be OK if the landing troops have minimal disruption and the defenders are badly disrupted/fatigued etc
for land combat not in base - anything as objectives do not apply outside of base hexes
for land combat in a base - ideally 100% but anything above 50% will probably be of some value


The closer to 100% prepped for LCU and applicable HQs, the better it is.  However any level below 30 is almost guaranteed to be of no value.

Alfred


I'm assuming from this that Army HQ are treated as Corps HQ.


Correct.

Alfred

(in reply to Chris21wen)
Post #: 17
RE: Command HQ prep - 2/16/2014 1:27:33 AM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gaspote

... I'm not sure to understand correctly so I ask with an example.

25th Army HQ and all of these ground units are 100% prep for Singapore. Southern Army is 100% prep for Singapore.

A) If Southern Army is in 1x range of command. Does it act like a Corps so the bonus will be 10+10+90 (Army+Corps+Command) ?

B) If Southern Army is in 2x range of command. It won't act like a Corps so does the bonus is of 10% (just Army because there are no Corps in range) ?

C) If a SNLF of combined fleet 100% prep for Singapore is following 25th Army's HQ in case A. Does it will get a bonus ?

D) If allies counter-attack in case A, Does the bonus of Command HQ will be take into account (in case of defense) ?





1. LCU looks to see if a Corps HQ is in range. If a Corps HQ is found, proceed to points 2-6 below. If no Corps HQ is found, proceed to points 7-8 below



2. If Corps HQ is within range, the level and target of the Corps HQ is checked and a combat bonus within the range 0-10% may be given.

3. If more than one Corps HQ is within range, the levels and targets of the additional Corps HQs are not checked.

4. If a Corps HQ within range was found, the LCU then sees if a Command HQ is within 2x range.

5. If Command HQ is within 2x range, the level and target of the Command HQ is checked and an additional combat bonus within the range 0-90% may be given.

6. If more than one Command HQ is within 2x range, the levels and targets of the additional Command HQs are not checked.



7. If no Corps HQ is found by the LCU, it then looks to see if a Command HQ is in 1x range.

8. If a Command HQ is within 1x range, the level and target of the Command HQ is checked and a combat bonus within the range 0-10% may be given.



9. The combat bonus applies to combat conducted inside the named base.

10. An Army HQ = a Corps HQ. The only difference is that a Corps HQ usually has only a one hex range whereas an Army HQ might have a range of up to five hexes.


A LCU may therefore receive assistance from:

(a) one Corps HQ only, or
(b) one Corps HQ and one Command HQ, or
(c) one Command HQ only

Alfred

(in reply to Gaspote)
Post #: 18
RE: Command HQ prep - 2/16/2014 4:04:20 AM   
EHansen


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I would like to ask about 2 & 3 and by extension 5 & 6.
If I have two Corps HQ within range with different targets, does the LCU
check the second if the first has a target that is different than the LCU?

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Post #: 19
RE: Command HQ prep - 2/16/2014 7:10:12 AM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: EHansen

I would like to ask about 2 & 3 and by extension 5 & 6.
If I have two Corps HQ within range with different targets, does the LCU
check the second if the first has a target that is different than the LCU?



Answered directly in post #6.

Alfred

(in reply to EHansen)
Post #: 20
RE: Command HQ prep - 2/16/2014 7:21:38 AM   
Chris21wen

 

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Thanks Alfred

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Post #: 21
RE: Command HQ prep - 2/16/2014 2:18:11 PM   
Gaspote


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Thanks Alfred, I understand better the use of command HQ now.

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Post #: 22
RE: Command HQ prep - 2/21/2014 11:51:06 PM   
Mike McCreery


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Alfred,

Per #3 above in your flow chart

quote:

3. If more than one Corps HQ is within range, the levels and targets of the additional Corps HQs are not checked.


It seems from your description that luck would be the deciding factor in what HQ and thus HQ prep would be used if multiple Corps HQ's with varying prep levels were within range of an LCU.

Is there some other determining factor such as highest prep level?

I guess the question is mostly moot since it would not make much sense to have multiple HQ's prepped for the same target within range of that target (unless you were worried about one or more of them not making it AKA amphibious assault).



_____________________________


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Post #: 23
RE: Command HQ prep - 2/22/2014 1:13:19 AM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wargmr

Alfred,

Per #3 above in your flow chart

quote:

3. If more than one Corps HQ is within range, the levels and targets of the additional Corps HQs are not checked.


It seems from your description that luck would be the deciding factor in what HQ and thus HQ prep would be used if multiple Corps HQ's with varying prep levels were within range of an LCU.

Is there some other determining factor such as highest prep level?

I guess the question is mostly moot since it would not make much sense to have multiple HQ's prepped for the same target within range of that target (unless you were worried about one or more of them not making it AKA amphibious assault).




(a) Luck will play no part. There are various criteria (commander rating, distance proximity, prep level, chain of command to name a few) which could be used singly or with weighting in the algorithm to find the first HQ but that level of detail is never disclosed by the devs.

(b) Range is between the units; it is not range to target.

(c) Your concern re amphibious assault is not valid as an HQ "not making it" is a meaningless concept in AE.

(d) Amphibious assaults are greatly assisted by having an Amphibious HQ and AGC ships involved. Combat bonus are not associated with them hence why not covered in this thread. Besides you won't get that infrastructure until 1943. Quite a few threads deal exclusively with amphibious assaults.

(e) Just how many HQs do you really think you have. Outside of the Chinese army, in 1942 (and you are not even halfway through 1942 in your AAR) you simply do not have sufficient HQs to prep for every possible target. You are left with no alternative but to have some LCUs prepping by themselves with no assistance from HQ prep point levels.

Alfred

(in reply to Mike McCreery)
Post #: 24
RE: Command HQ prep - 9/11/2014 5:28:41 AM   
Yaab


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From: Poland
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This is a great thread for understanding HQ bonuses, but I see no proof that the command HQ bonus applies in defensive battles. The wording on page 178 in the manual explicitly mentions attack only. Thus, does anyone have any combat reports from their defensive battles, where the jump in AV value can be attributed to command HQ bonus?

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 25
RE: Command HQ prep - 9/11/2014 10:18:01 AM   
Alfred

 

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Joined: 9/28/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

This is a great thread for understanding HQ bonuses, but I see no proof that the command HQ bonus applies in defensive battles. The wording on page 178 in the manual explicitly mentions attack only. Thus, does anyone have any combat reports from their defensive battles, where the jump in AV value can be attributed to command HQ bonus?


Another recent occasion when I have to point out that something either written by me or in the manual has been given an erroneous interpretation. on the most superficial of readings.

If you are that keen to find fault with what I write, you need to do your homework properly. I certainly do when I write detailed explanations. So the first thing you should have done was not assume that I had not read nor understood page 178 of the manual. In fact this subject was one of those where my homework took several hours as the entire picture is not contained just on page 178.

1. The word "attack" means what? One has to trawl through several sections of the manual to understand what the word "attack" means. I am not inclined at the moment to expend the effort to bundle up in a simple picnic basket what "attack" means in this game in this context.

2. If you had not been so blinded with trying to find a fault with what I wrote, you would have noticed that even on page 178 of the manual, in listing the benefits provided by Army and Corps HQs, it explicitly states "whether attacking or defending". Rather difficult to sustain your assertion, don't you think. So I won't bother with what page 187 of the manual states.

3. Unless one has access to the code when running the turn resolution, it is impossible to quarantine the results. You can't quantify the actual bonus when on the offensive, so how do you think it can be quantified when on the offensive. And 99&% of all sandbox tests conducted by forumites are just vanity testing, of zero value for determining the sort of thing you are interested in.

Time and time again you attempt to reverse engineer the algorithms and on every occasion it is demonstrated that it is a fools errand. Frankly I don't know why you bother with this game as it is so obvious you just want to play a giant Excel spread sheet where 100% of the time the end result of every single action is known in advance.

War is a risky and messy business. The abstractions of this game do a very good job of capturing that element. It is simply not possible to play this game without exposing one's ego to the realisation that the plan/action ordered will not turn out 100% as predicted.

Alfred

(in reply to Yaab)
Post #: 26
RE: Command HQ prep - 9/11/2014 11:08:33 AM   
Yaab


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From: Poland
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You are right that manual p.178 uses "attacking and defending" for corps/army HQ and their 10% bonuses, but for command HQ it says, I quote:

"If there is a Corps HQ within range of the battle, and the Command HQ is within 2 times its command
range of the battle, it can add up to an additional 90% bonus to the Assault Value of an attacking force for odds calculations."

Now, if the manual had said "attacking/defending force", then I wouldn't be asking this question now. The topic is important because we don't have many command HQ/corps HQ combos in the game to use them casually across the map. As the Allies on December 7, I have just one command HQ ( Pacific Fleet) that starts unrestricted and is ready to go anywhere and assist with the bonus.

I just find the manual ambiguous on this issue, that's all.

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 27
RE: Command HQ prep - 9/11/2014 11:20:55 PM   
bigred


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Joined: 12/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Answers to the follow up questions.

1.  The change log #77 from patch 1 was worded clumsily.  It is not to be inferred that the Chain of Command must be followed.  The "its HQs" was meant to mean the applicable HQs which are within range of the LCU and intended to assist.

2.  Defenders can also gain the combat bonus.  This means that when defending a base, even units with no attacking assault value devices should still have the base as their objective because when defending support type squads are counted as having an assault value of 1/10 for odds calculations.

3.  Being 100% prepped for an objective is not in itself a 100% guarantee that the combat bonuses will be present.  Leader ratings also modify the availability and quantum of combat bonuses received.  A Command HQ can give a combat bonus within the range of 0% to 90%.  A Corps HQ can give a combat bonus within the range of 0% to 10%.  Having both Command and Corps HQs within range and at 100% prepped value, can give a combat bonus within the range 0% to 100%.

4.  In determining whether the HQs may provide a combat bonus, both the level and target of the HQ objective is checked.  See BigJ62's last post in this thread

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2223071&mpage=1&key=objective�

which is the only reference from a dev I have ever tracked down which expands on what the manual states on page 178.

5.  In practical terms, where time is not critical, the desirable prepped thresholds are:

for an atoll invasion - 100%, although anything above 80% might be OK if the landing troops have minimal disruption and the defenders are badly disrupted/fatigued etc
for land combat not in base - anything as objectives do not apply outside of base hexes
for land combat in a base - ideally 100% but anything above 50% will probably be of some value


The closer to 100% prepped for LCU and applicable HQs, the better it is.  However any level below 30 is almost guaranteed to be of no value.

Alfred

What is the effect of the American 6th army? It has a range of 5. I wondered if it acts as a surrogate command hq. Giving the allies an extra command HQ to pick targets.

edit--I finished the tread and an answer has been given.

< Message edited by bigred -- 9/12/2014 12:30:46 AM >


_____________________________

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http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2597400

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 28
RE: Command HQ prep - 9/12/2014 12:06:00 PM   
LeeChard

 

Posts: 1011
Joined: 9/12/2007
From: Michigan
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Sort of a spinoff question.
How do you handle Combat HQ prep when your army is moving fast?
EI I am chasing the Japanese up Burma road and I'm moving base to base much faster than my prep time will allow?

(in reply to bigred)
Post #: 29
RE: Command HQ prep - 9/12/2014 6:14:49 PM   
Lokasenna


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From: Iowan in MD/DC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ranger5355

Sort of a spinoff question.
How do you handle Combat HQ prep when your army is moving fast?
EI I am chasing the Japanese up Burma road and I'm moving base to base much faster than my prep time will allow?


You only need prep time for two (or three) things:

1) Amphibious landings
2) Defending
Possible 3) Negating your opponent's #2

You will never see a "preparation (+)" in the combat report, only "preparation (-)". That (-) occurs when the attacker's preparation is higher than the defenders.

If you are moving so quickly that you aren't prepped for the next base, then your opponent probably isn't prepped either. In a land war, prep isn't that important. It does make a difference in a small way, but in the grand scheme of a big push through Burma or China, it's not something you need to bother about.

(in reply to LeeChard)
Post #: 30
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