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Travel Time From Balboa To Main Map - 2/11/2014 9:45:39 PM   
Icedawg


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How long does this take? I know it varies based on ship speed, but how about an Essex CV?

As a Japanese player, I haven't taken much time to try to decipher the off map movement table, but based on my quick glances through it, I don't think extra time mulling it over would help. It all sounds Greek to me.

I'm curious because I'd like to have some sort of estimate of the on-map arrival times of allied CVs slated to enter the game at Balboa.

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RE: Travel Time From Balboa To Main Map - 2/11/2014 10:03:58 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icedawg

How long does this take? I know it varies based on ship speed, but how about an Essex CV?

As a Japanese player, I haven't taken much time to try to decipher the off map movement table, but based on my quick glances through it, I don't think extra time mulling it over would help. It all sounds Greek to me.

I'm curious because I'd like to have some sort of estimate of the on-map arrival times of allied CVs slated to enter the game at Balboa.




Balboa to where?

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RE: Travel Time From Balboa To Main Map - 2/11/2014 10:12:22 PM   
Icedawg


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I was thinking just to the closest map edge. From there, I can estimate times to other parts of the map.

Specifically, after their arrival, I'm concerned about how long it will take my opponent to get his Essex CVs from Balboa to the general Java/Sumatra area.

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RE: Travel Time From Balboa To Main Map - 2/11/2014 10:19:51 PM   
witpqs


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There is a table in the manual about distance to bases. I don't know that they have ever published the distance to the first on-map hex or whatever.

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RE: Travel Time From Balboa To Main Map - 2/11/2014 10:27:12 PM   
Icedawg


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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

There is a table in the manual about distance to bases. I don't know that they have ever published the distance to the first on-map hex or whatever.


The off-map movement table shows distances between off-map hexes and other off-map hexes, but I couldn't find anything about the distance to the on-map entry hex. That's what I'm looking for.

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RE: Travel Time From Balboa To Main Map - 2/11/2014 11:00:32 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icedawg

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

There is a table in the manual about distance to bases. I don't know that they have ever published the distance to the first on-map hex or whatever.


The off-map movement table shows distances between off-map hexes and other off-map hexes, but I couldn't find anything about the distance to the on-map entry hex. That's what I'm looking for.


When I said "to where" I meant did you mean to the Pacific entry box for, say, San Diego? That's the only direct on-map exit (Pacific) from Balboa from memory. But a ship that appears there can go to CT and then onward to several bodies of water. Or it can go to UK/Aden/India depending on the date. Or it can go to South America/Port Stanley and come out about on the latitude of Tahiti. And so forth.

You also need to know if the off-map speed is Cruise or not. It can vary the answer a lot.

If I wanted a CV at Java I'd go through CT. There's no damage accrual off-map, no fuel usage, and you can run at Full without fuel worries. Also can't be attacked.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 2/12/2014 12:04:28 AM >


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RE: Travel Time From Balboa To Main Map - 2/11/2014 11:02:37 PM   
witpqs


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There is also shown the distance to on-map bases. But to the entry hexes, I don't recall ever seeing that.

However, in looking now I see the matter covered in a different way on pages 45, 46 and 47 of the PDF of the manual. They give the "virtual hex locations" off the off-map bases, and the hex locations of the entry hexes. You can then calculate the distance between the two.

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RE: Travel Time From Balboa To Main Map - 2/11/2014 11:07:27 PM   
Icedawg


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icedawg

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

There is a table in the manual about distance to bases. I don't know that they have ever published the distance to the first on-map hex or whatever.


The off-map movement table shows distances between off-map hexes and other off-map hexes, but I couldn't find anything about the distance to the on-map entry hex. That's what I'm looking for.


When I said "to where" I meant did you mean to the Pacific entry box for, say, San Diego? That's the only direct on-map exit (Pscific) from Balboa from memory. But a ship that appears there can go to CT and then onward to several bodies of water. Or it can go to UK/Aden/India depending on the date. Or it can go to South America/Port Stanley and come out about on the latitude of Tahiti. And so forth.

You also need to know if the off-map speed is Cruise or not. It can vary the answer a lot.

If I wanted a CV at Java I'd go through CT. There's no damage accrual off-map, no fuel usage, and you can run at Full without fuel worries. Also can't be attacked.


Originally, I was thinking the Pacific entry box. But now I'm starting to second guess myself. In the end, what I want to know is this. What is the shortest possible time it would take my opponent to get his Essex CVs arriving at Balboa to the area around Cocos Island moving at mission speed? Shortest possible path, not stopping to fix system damage, not worried about attack, no refueling stops necessary (magical unlimited fuel) etc.

< Message edited by Icedawg -- 2/12/2014 12:10:33 AM >

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RE: Travel Time From Balboa To Main Map - 2/11/2014 11:19:28 PM   
witpqs


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FYI, it's only between two off-map bases that fuel is not a concern. When heading to or from the map to/from an off-map base fuel is handled the same as on-map.

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RE: Travel Time From Balboa To Main Map - 2/12/2014 2:17:51 AM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icedawg

Originally, I was thinking the Pacific entry box. But now I'm starting to second guess myself. In the end, what I want to know is this. What is the shortest possible time it would take my opponent to get his Essex CVs arriving at Balboa to the area around Cocos Island moving at mission speed? Shortest possible path, not stopping to fix system damage, not worried about attack, no refueling stops necessary (magical unlimited fuel) etc.


My best guess/estimate/looking at some TFs in my game hairy swing would be:

Balboa to CT: about 10 days

CT to IO map at 12 kts is about 16 days. Adjust up for a CV. Maybe 50%? So 8 days?

Map edge to Cocos about 4-ish.

So, three weeks or so? Plus or minus a week.

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RE: Travel Time From Balboa To Main Map - 2/12/2014 2:26:58 AM   
msieving1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icedawg

How long does this take? I know it varies based on ship speed, but how about an Essex CV?

As a Japanese player, I haven't taken much time to try to decipher the off map movement table, but based on my quick glances through it, I don't think extra time mulling it over would help. It all sounds Greek to me.

I'm curious because I'd like to have some sort of estimate of the on-map arrival times of allied CVs slated to enter the game at Balboa.




Where the task force will appear on map depends on the assigned destination, and that determines how long it takes to reach the map. If you hover the mouse over a task force in the off map holding box, a window appears showing the hex where the task force will arrive on map and how long it will take to get there.

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RE: Travel Time From Balboa To Main Map - 2/12/2014 9:08:49 AM   
jay102

 

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Although a bit off topic, anybody notice the 15 hexes difference between Balboa and Cristolbal? When calculating distance of TF movement, it's a whooping 15 hexes difference if TF depart from the closer side of the Panama Canal(on map they are just 1 hex away from each other).

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RE: Travel Time From Balboa To Main Map - 2/12/2014 9:24:08 AM   
Alfred

 

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Yes.

It takes time to negotiate all those locks.

Alfred

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RE: Travel Time From Balboa To Main Map - 2/12/2014 11:45:25 AM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Yes.

It takes time to negotiate all those locks.

Alfred


Hardest working donkeys in show business.

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RE: Travel Time From Balboa To Main Map - 2/12/2014 11:46:27 AM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: msieving1

Where the task force will appear on map depends on the assigned destination, and that determines how long it takes to reach the map. If you hover the mouse over a task force in the off map holding box, a window appears showing the hex where the task force will arrive on map and how long it will take to get there.


Very good point. The TFs I used in my post would take about three more days to get on map, given where they're going, than one going to Cocos I.


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RE: Travel Time From Balboa To Main Map - 2/12/2014 4:02:11 PM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Yes.

It takes time to negotiate all those locks.

Alfred


Yes, quite a bit more time by off board movement than by on board movement.

I discovered that an Allied player should NEVER move directly from the East Coast to Balboa.

Instead Move to Cristobal first and then to Balboa.

Using on board movement from Cristobal to Balboa requires only one turn.

The cost difference for moving from EC to Balboa is something like 5 turns longer than moving from EC to Cristobal.

I can't recall the exact turn differential as I discovered it some time ago but recall it is considerable.

I used to be lazy and try avoiding the extra micromanagement of moving to Cristobal first, but no longer do after discovering the difference.

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RE: Travel Time From Balboa To Main Map - 2/12/2014 6:13:55 PM   
geofflambert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: msieving1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Icedawg

How long does this take? I know it varies based on ship speed, but how about an Essex CV?

As a Japanese player, I haven't taken much time to try to decipher the off map movement table, but based on my quick glances through it, I don't think extra time mulling it over would help. It all sounds Greek to me.

I'm curious because I'd like to have some sort of estimate of the on-map arrival times of allied CVs slated to enter the game at Balboa.




Where the task force will appear on map depends on the assigned destination, and that determines how long it takes to reach the map. If you hover the mouse over a task force in the off map holding box, a window appears showing the hex where the task force will arrive on map and how long it will take to get there.


So, Icedawg, you're going to have to break down and do a simulation. Get a destroyer or cruiser there, send it then the next day you'll be able to do as instructed.

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RE: Travel Time From Balboa To Main Map - 2/13/2014 1:11:12 AM   
Capt Hornblower


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FYI: For a combat TF going directly from Balboa to Pearl, it takes approximately 7-8 game days at mission speed to appear on the map.

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RE: Travel Time From Balboa To Main Map - 2/13/2014 3:03:12 PM   
crsutton


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On average about 8 to 10 days.

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RE: Travel Time From Balboa To Main Map - 6/2/2014 8:03:13 PM   
wegman58

 

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Three days seems like a long time unless you have a BUNCH of ships. I was on an LST that supported one of the PHMs which set the record in 1979. Don't remember what it was, they cleared everything out for the record breaker. But it should be less than a day if you have priority, and a bird farm would have priority.

Interesting transit though. That Gaillard Cut (through a 300 foot hill) is one of the more impressive things I've sailed through.

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RE: Travel Time From Balboa To Main Map - 6/2/2014 10:17:44 PM   
obvert


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I made some calculations for my own use. Have them in the AAR but thought I'd throw them up here. Pretty sure most are correct, but there could be somethings I missed here or there.

Mission/cruise is used to calculate. Bull says above that no fatigue to ships or loss of fuel for off map movement. I trust his knowledge, but man, that would change a lot for me, and so I'm having trouble containing myself.



CAPE TOWN > EAST COAST = 170 hexes

32 knots (13 hexes/day) = 14 days
20 knots (10 hexes/day) = 18 days
14-16 knots (7hexes/day) = 25 days
12 knots (6hexes/day) = 29 days

CAPE TOWN > UK = 152 hexes

32 knots (13 hexes/day) = 12 days
20 knots (10 hexes/day) = 16 days
14 knots (7hexes/day) = 22 days
12 knots (6 hexes/day) = 26 days

CAPE TOWN > KARACHI = 140 hexes

32 knots (13 hexes/day) = 11 days
20 knots (10 hexes/day) = 14 days
14 knots (7 hexes/day) = 20 days
12 knots (6 hexes/day) = 24 days

CAPETOWN > DIEGO GARCIA = 86 hexes

32 knots (13 hexes/day) = 7 days
20 knots (10 hexes/day) = 9 days
14 knots (7hexes/day) = 13 days
12 knots (6 hexes/day) = 15 days

CAPETOWN > COLOMBO = 109 hexes

32 knots (13 hexes/day) = 9 days
20 knots (10 hexes/day) = 11 days
14 knots (7hexes/day) = 16 days
12 knots (6 hexes/day) = 19 days

CAPETOWN > PERTH = 139 hexes

32 knots (13 hexes/day) = 11 days
20 knots (10 hexes/day) = 14 days
14 knots (7hexes/day) = 20 days
12 knots (6 hexes/day) = 24 days

CAPETOWN > COCOS = 100 hexes

32 knots (13 hexes/day) = 8 days
20 knots (10 hexes/day) = 10 days
14 knots (7hexes/day) = 15 days
12 knots (6 hexes/day) = 17 days

ADEN > KARACHI = 39 hexes (40 coastal routing)

32 knots (13 hexes/day) = 3 days
20 knots (10 hexes/day) = 4 days
14 knots (7 hexes/day) = 6 days
12 knots (6 hexes/day) = 7 days

ABADAN > KARACHI = 28 hexes

32 knots (13 hexes/day) = 2.5 days (2 days at flank)
20 knots (10 hexes/day) = 3 days
14 knots (7 hexes/day) = 4 days
12 knots (6 hexes/day) = 5 days

BALBOA > SD = 78 hexes

32 knots (13 hexes/day) = 6 days
20 knots (10 hexes/day) = 8 days
14 knots (7 hexes/day) = 12 days
12 knots (6 hexes/day) = 13 days

BALBOA > EAST COAST = 60 hexes

32 knots (13 hexes/day) = 5 days
20 knots (10 hexes/day) = 6 days
14 knots (7 hexes/day) = 9 days
12 knots (6 hexes/day) = 10 days

BALBOA > CAPE TOWN = 176 hexes

32 knots (13 hexes/day) = 14 days
20 knots (10 hexes/day) = 18 days
14 knots (7 hexes/day) = 26 days
12 knots (6 hexes/day) = 30 days

< Message edited by obvert -- 6/3/2014 8:41:20 AM >


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RE: Travel Time From Balboa To Main Map - 6/3/2014 6:38:34 AM   
Chris21wen

 

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I wondered that, got a few here. These are only days to get on the map NOT days to reach destination.

days to on map (speed #)
from Aden 4 days to Darwin (s2)
from Aden 4 days to Perth (s3)
from Abadan 4 days to Perth (s3)
from Abadan 4 days to Karachi (s3)
from Balboa 19 days to SF (s2)
from Balboa 16 days to pH (s2)
from Balboa 8 days to pH (s4)
from Balboa 11 days to Pago Pago (s3)
from Cape town 14 days to Colombo (s3)
from Cape Town 14 days to Broome (s3)
from Cape Town 15 days to Darwin (s3)

obverts is much more comprehensive but that appears to be time to reach destination.

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RE: Travel Time From Balboa To Main Map - 6/3/2014 11:29:52 AM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Yes.

It takes time to negotiate all those locks.

Alfred


Not if you do it manually.

If you make a strategic move from Cristobal to an on map destination you will suffer the strategic movement delay in transiting between Cristobal and Balboa.

If, instead, you manually move from Cristobal to Balboa and then set an on map destination from Balboa you will make the transit from Cristobal to Balboa in one day.

Never, never, never set an on map destination directly from Cristobal.



damn....beating a dead horse. I already made this point in this thread......

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 6/3/2014 12:31:36 PM >


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RE: Travel Time From Balboa To Main Map - 6/3/2014 11:58:27 AM   
wegman58

 

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I notice a LOT of people have done some digging and then posted it on the forums. I'm wondering if over the years anyone did a detailed table of 'on map' distances. Back in the day when we bought books of maps/atlases there would be a table somewhere Anchorage/Alameda; Anchorage/Victoria and a LOT more. BIG GRID. Did someone do that for WITP and post it on the forums somewhere?

If nothing else - which are the closest east coast ports to Pearl Harbor. And what on the Indian Coast is closest to Cape Town?

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RE: Travel Time From Balboa To Main Map - 6/3/2014 1:10:37 PM   
LeeChard

 

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I remember reading somewhere that in off map movement ship speed is not relevant.

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RE: Travel Time From Balboa To Main Map - 6/3/2014 1:29:08 PM   
Yaab


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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

I made some calculations for my own use. Have them in the AAR but thought I'd throw them up here. Pretty sure most are correct, but there could be somethings I missed here or there.

Mission/cruise is used to calculate. Bull says above that no fatigue to ships or loss of fuel for off map movement. I trust his knowledge, but man, that would change a lot for me, and so I'm having trouble containing myself.



CAPE TOWN > EAST COAST = 170 hexes

32 knots (13 hexes/day) = 14 days
20 knots (10 hexes/day) = 18 days
14-16 knots (7hexes/day) = 25 days
12 knots (6hexes/day) = 29 days

CAPE TOWN > UK = 152 hexes

32 knots (13 hexes/day) = 12 days
20 knots (10 hexes/day) = 16 days
14 knots (7hexes/day) = 22 days
12 knots (6 hexes/day) = 26 days

CAPE TOWN > KARACHI = 140 hexes

32 knots (13 hexes/day) = 11 days
20 knots (10 hexes/day) = 14 days
14 knots (7 hexes/day) = 20 days
12 knots (6 hexes/day) = 24 days

CAPETOWN > DIEGO GARCIA = 86 hexes

32 knots (13 hexes/day) = 7 days
20 knots (10 hexes/day) = 9 days
14 knots (7hexes/day) = 13 days
12 knots (6 hexes/day) = 15 days

CAPETOWN > COLOMBO = 109 hexes

32 knots (13 hexes/day) = 9 days
20 knots (10 hexes/day) = 11 days
14 knots (7hexes/day) = 16 days
12 knots (6 hexes/day) = 19 days

CAPETOWN > PERTH = 139 hexes

32 knots (13 hexes/day) = 11 days
20 knots (10 hexes/day) = 14 days
14 knots (7hexes/day) = 20 days
12 knots (6 hexes/day) = 24 days

CAPETOWN > COCOS = 100 hexes

32 knots (13 hexes/day) = 8 days
20 knots (10 hexes/day) = 10 days
14 knots (7hexes/day) = 15 days
12 knots (6 hexes/day) = 17 days

ADEN > KARACHI = 39 hexes (40 coastal routing)

32 knots (13 hexes/day) = 3 days
20 knots (10 hexes/day) = 4 days
14 knots (7 hexes/day) = 6 days
12 knots (6 hexes/day) = 7 days

ABADAN > KARACHI = 28 hexes

32 knots (13 hexes/day) = 2.5 days (2 days at flank)
20 knots (10 hexes/day) = 3 days
14 knots (7 hexes/day) = 4 days
12 knots (6 hexes/day) = 5 days

BALBOA > SD = 78 hexes

32 knots (13 hexes/day) = 6 days
20 knots (10 hexes/day) = 8 days
14 knots (7 hexes/day) = 12 days
12 knots (6 hexes/day) = 13 days

BALBOA > EAST COAST = 60 hexes

32 knots (13 hexes/day) = 5 days
20 knots (10 hexes/day) = 6 days
14 knots (7 hexes/day) = 9 days
12 knots (6 hexes/day) = 10 days

BALBOA > CAPE TOWN = 176 hexes

32 knots (13 hexes/day) = 14 days
20 knots (10 hexes/day) = 18 days
14 knots (7 hexes/day) = 26 days
12 knots (6 hexes/day) = 30 days


Where have you been when they were writing the manual?

Saving it for future reference.

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RE: Travel Time From Balboa To Main Map - 6/3/2014 1:54:23 PM   
blueatoll


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wegman58
If nothing else - which are the closest east coast ports to Pearl Harbor.

If you are talking 'real life' in WWII, your looking at Miami, Tampa/St.Petersburg, Pensacola, Savannah, Mobile, New Orleans, Orange/Beaumont, Houston, Galveston, Corpus Christi, and Brownsville. I don't remember if the channel for Jacksonville, FL had been dredge out enough for larger vessels by the time of the war.

Quite a few of the East Coast subs you get all come out of New Orleans as they were built as far north as Wisconsin/Minnesota and traveled down the Mississippi river.

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RE: Travel Time From Balboa To Main Map - 6/3/2014 5:52:04 PM   
wegman58

 

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If nothing else - which are the closest east coast ports to Pearl Harbor. And what on the Indian Coast is closest to Cape Town?

I meant closest West Coast ports to Pearl Harbor. East Coast is one big pile in this game.

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RE: Travel Time From Balboa To Main Map - 6/3/2014 5:55:08 PM   
blueatoll


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wegman58

If nothing else - which are the closest east coast ports to Pearl Harbor. And what on the Indian Coast is closest to Cape Town?

I meant closest West Coast ports to Pearl Harbor. East Coast is one big pile in this game.

Gotcha.

You can figure that out by looking at Pearl's coordinates and then SF, LA, SD coordinates and do the math.

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RE: Travel Time From Balboa To Main Map - 6/3/2014 8:18:17 PM   
obvert


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Working on a map with coordinated written in and a distance chart from main on and off map points with days of travel from the above list added in. I'll post hen it's done if anyone is interested, but it might be a week or two.

Here is a sample zoomed way out. It will be 1:1 scale to the AE map.






Attachment (1)

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