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Problem with custom design - 2/11/2014 6:13:54 PM   
towerbooks3192


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I tried to follow that beginners thread written by Timotheus (hope I got the spelling write) in order to refresh me with the game. I know he suggested deleting the plans for the state ships and leave out small space port and high tech research then making them more efficient. Only problem is that it only covers up to pre-midgame and I don't know how to proceed. A part of me wants to know how to proceed but I would prefer to know what I should be looking out for and how to adapt to it rather than follow a step by step process. I did learn about how important energy collectors are and how it is more efficient to go straight with Gerax rather than bother with the warp bubbles. I was wondering if there is a guide that covers more on those things especially on how to make an efficient medium or large spaceport, etc. One of the things that really daunts me is the design as there are things that I don't know how many to put in (like lets say how many armour or shields compared to something like energy collectors that I could identify how much to put in based on the static energy used) and I kind of don't want to be inefficient.
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RE: Problem with custom design - 2/11/2014 6:34:55 PM   
Canute0

 

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How much defence and weapon you put into a spaceport depend how much income you got ! :-)
I design mining base that they just need to defend against 1-3 pirate ships, when a base get destroyed or captured it doesn't hurt that much.
But a Spaceport special the one from the homeplanet is more important. Special when it is the primary research base too, and the home of many characters.

I don't want say, put xy shields on it, or something similar.
But when you look at your own ships at max. shipsize, multiple that with 5, that should be enough to defeat a similar fleet of 5-9 ships.
When you use 10 times, you can defeat a larger fleet. And you should set a focus on long range weapons since the spaceport is stationary.

But don't forget the technological advance. If you are behind the tech of the attacker it can be that the attacker can overwhelm you with much fewer ship.
Maybe you notice this allready when you found an abandone ship or needed to fight against one.

But it is all a question of cost or maintance, you can design and build a large spaceport, and then you never get attacked by a larger fleet and the maintance cost prevent you to build some wonders or to some crash-researchs.



(in reply to towerbooks3192)
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RE: Problem with custom design - 2/11/2014 7:29:49 PM   
towerbooks3192


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The guide really has some great suggestions on how to make the spaceport and research center more efficient.One of my main problem is starting a design from scratch. Other than ticking off the warning signs, I don't know which ones are the one off parts (things like commerce center which only requires one) and how many of some parts I should be adding. I know there is no set number of shields and weapons as I should be taking in to account what technology (especially the build size limit early in the game) that is available to me and when I could implement it.

So far I am being torn between automating and trusting the AI on the pre-made designs but try to improve them or if I should follow the guide and then really built everything efficiently from scratch. What worries me are the other figures to consider while adding some parts. I kind of know things like how some components affect the speed and where to look at the speed figures and the energy consumption but I am worried if I will overlook some figures that I should have considered in adding different parts. Other than that, I reckon my understanding of the game is pretty much good.

So is it better to automate then adjust the pre-set plans or really build things from scratch efficiently?

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RE: Problem with custom design - 2/12/2014 6:46:02 AM   
Canute0

 

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For the basics you can trust the automatd design.
It is ok just to remove the warnings, these modules arn't cumulativ. You can add a second or 3. one as backup when one got damaged during a fight, but beside repairbot i don't do that.
Basicly you can say when there don't change any values it is enough to keep just one module.

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RE: Problem with custom design - 2/12/2014 7:43:01 AM   
towerbooks3192


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Ok, I never deleted all the designs but I have a few questions:

Is it alright to place energy collectors to almost every ship and base to cover the static energy used?

Do I only need to put Medical/Recreational module on Colonies or I have to include them on labs and other bases?

How should I assess how strong a particular empire/faction is? (I think I should be looking at the number of ships and firepower when it comes to pirate empires?)

Should I be approving AI ship requests at times and leave some ships automated? ( I want to control my main fleets but I am concerned when the AI might want an escort to follow around mining/civilian ships)

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RE: Problem with custom design - 2/12/2014 8:04:03 AM   
CyclopsSlayer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: towerbooks3192
Is it alright to place energy collectors to almost every ship and base to cover the static energy used?

Do I only need to put Medical/Recreational module on Colonies or I have to include them on labs and other bases?

How should I assess how strong a particular empire/faction is? (I think I should be looking at the number of ships and firepower when it comes to pirate empires?)

Should I be approving AI ship requests at times and leave some ships automated? ( I want to control my main fleets but I am concerned when the AI might want an escort to follow around mining/civilian ships)

1) Energy collectors only function when the ship isn't otherwise moving. So all bases YES, military and troop ships, likely yes, explorers, I do.

2) Everything on a colony ship is lost upon colonization. To gain the effects to the Commerce, Medical and Recreation centers they need to be place on a facility at the Colony. Usually a base of some type.

3) There are a couple indicators, The Relative length of the colored background bar on the Politics screen, the Victory Condition screen, the data on the race info under the politics screen showing #worlds, strategic value.
As well plan an Intelligence Mission to steal Tech and you will see what they have that you don't.

4) I eventually leave my Escorts/Frigates/Destroyers to auto control as escorts. The Cruisers/Capital/Carriers I manually control.

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RE: Problem with custom design - 2/12/2014 9:06:18 AM   
towerbooks3192


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CyclopsSlayer


quote:

ORIGINAL: towerbooks3192
Is it alright to place energy collectors to almost every ship and base to cover the static energy used?

Do I only need to put Medical/Recreational module on Colonies or I have to include them on labs and other bases?

How should I assess how strong a particular empire/faction is? (I think I should be looking at the number of ships and firepower when it comes to pirate empires?)

Should I be approving AI ship requests at times and leave some ships automated? ( I want to control my main fleets but I am concerned when the AI might want an escort to follow around mining/civilian ships)

1) Energy collectors only function when the ship isn't otherwise moving. So all bases YES, military and troop ships, likely yes, explorers, I do.

2) Everything on a colony ship is lost upon colonization. To gain the effects to the Commerce, Medical and Recreation centers they need to be place on a facility at the Colony. Usually a base of some type.

3) There are a couple indicators, The Relative length of the colored background bar on the Politics screen, the Victory Condition screen, the data on the race info under the politics screen showing #worlds, strategic value.
As well plan an Intelligence Mission to steal Tech and you will see what they have that you don't.

4) I eventually leave my Escorts/Frigates/Destroyers to auto control as escorts. The Cruisers/Capital/Carriers I manually control.


Just to clarify on colonies and the medical/commerce/recreational mods, I didn't mean the colony ship. I just realised that I meant do I need to place them on spaceports on colonies only or they are necessary to all bases i.e defense platform, mines, and research stations?

And as to the ship request from the AI. Should I provide them with the individual ships running around or provide them with an automated fleet or just provide them with an automated escort/frigate destroyer? I don't have any plans of having the AI control specially built ships and anything above Destroyers so I am following your Cruisers/Capital/Carrier manual control.

(in reply to CyclopsSlayer)
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RE: Problem with custom design - 2/12/2014 9:18:25 AM   
Bingeling

 

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The colony need the medical/research component on some base above it. The spaceport is the logical choice, or a star base. Or you could put it on a defensive base, or a custom star base...

When I play I won't give the AI any ships to work with, and never see any need for running a ship outside fleets apart form resupply ships. If there are weak respawning pirates, and the empire is massive, building a bunch of frigates or something and let roam free could of course be a way to make sure "something is always somewhere near".

It is always best to figure out how you prefer to play the game yourself. There are many ways to sort out automation, fleet usage, and types of game played.

The only reason I keep destroyers around, is that they are there in numbers before I can build cruisers. And I leave them for smaller fleets to do local defense and munch mining bases in war. There is no reason why a fleet of 2 cruisers and a carrier (or similar) can't do the same, though. In mid tech using different ships can have an benefit in having the destroyers use "fast jump" hyperdrives, and the main battle ships "fast travel". One type travels to targets far away, the other wants to intercept nearby enemies.

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RE: Problem with custom design - 2/12/2014 11:48:36 AM   
Canute0

 

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Medical : increase happyness on colonies, heal troops on ship too.
Recreation : increase happyness on colonies, needed for resort base.
Commerce : increase trade income, only needed on spaceports or starbase, not sure if it would help on freighters.
Labs : You don't need these on a spaceport, some people like to concentrate their research at a single point, other like to build multiple research station around the Spaceport.
(Gas) Mining enignes : only needed on Mining station/ship, no use on Spaceport since you can't mine a colony from orbit.

(in reply to Bingeling)
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RE: Problem with custom design - 2/12/2014 12:12:59 PM   
towerbooks3192


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canute

Medical : increase happyness on colonies, heal troops on ship too.
Recreation : increase happyness on colonies, needed for resort base.
Commerce : increase trade income, only needed on spaceports or starbase, not sure if it would help on freighters.
Labs : You don't need these on a spaceport, some people like to concentrate their research at a single point, other like to build multiple research station around the Spaceport.
(Gas) Mining enignes : only needed on Mining station/ship, no use on Spaceport since you can't mine a colony from orbit.


Ok, so are those one off parts or it the more the better like weapons and shields?

Next question, Countermeasures and target tracking, What figures to look out for that would let me determine how many of it is enough on a ship? The way I understand them, they aid with things like improving the ship weapon's effectiveness and defenses? or am I understanding it wrong?

Edit: What if I want to expand my small spaceport in to a large one? How do I do it? any advice on things especially with the storage and components that are required to manufacture ships.

< Message edited by towerbooks3192 -- 2/12/2014 1:44:12 PM >

(in reply to Canute0)
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RE: Problem with custom design - 2/12/2014 1:15:59 PM   
Canute0

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canute

For the basics you can trust the automatd design.
It is ok just to remove the warnings, these modules arn't cumulativ. You can add a second or 3. one as backup when one got damaged during a fight, but beside repairbot i don't do that.
Basicly you can say when there don't change any values it is enough to keep just one module.


So when you add a 2.Countermeasures does it change any value ? I don't think, so it is a module which give any bonus when you add another one.

Small, medium, Large, Escort,Cruiser,Capital, thats just roles how the AI would use/build it when you let it.
You can design your small spaceport real large, but when you set the build part on auto. the AI would build that small spaceport on colonies you setup at the empire policty.




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RE: Problem with custom design - 2/12/2014 1:45:44 PM   
towerbooks3192


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Ok, so my basic components are finally in place. I just got shields. I was wondering if shields consume energy while recharging and how I can see how much it consumes and ensure that I have enough excess power to fire all my weapons and shields? My other problem now is trying to find the perfect balance of how many engines and that other engine (the one that affects how a ship turns) that would ensure that my first military ships could put up a fight. Still on the process of researching proton ionization but I already have decent weapons, fuel cells, reactor and armour. My current ship size limit is 300 and I am struggling to fit a lot of stuff in a Destroyer.

(in reply to Canute0)
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RE: Problem with custom design - 2/13/2014 6:31:17 AM   
Canute0

 

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Oh 300 is at last a useful size, it is much worser when you try to get all the stuff into smaller size !! :-)
But right with 300 you can't add much. You have to decide between ship sublight speed, shields and weapons. A few armor should be there too since pirates use Railgun/Graviton weapons often they bypass shield.

Maybe you should look at this subforum, and you find some guide or tips there
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tt.asp?forumid=794


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RE: Problem with custom design - 2/13/2014 11:46:45 AM   
towerbooks3192


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Cheers!

Sorry I got so annoying. Finally realised how addictive designing is! Already researched proton ionization. I don't know how much cruise and turning speed I should be aiming for and engines are pretty hard to fit in. Still looking for a good number of armour/shield/weapon that I try to fit at 300 (I think I inreased it to 400 last night).

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RE: Problem with custom design - 2/13/2014 11:54:20 AM   
Bingeling

 

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Start a game at your tech with AI designer. Basic tech, or one step up. Let the AI design its stuff. Watch these designs. Watch the number of engines and directional stuffs. Watch the speeds of escort, frigate, destroyer, cruiser...

This should give you a baseline to design from.

Do you want your ship to be "in your face?". Slower, more armored, powerful short range weapons.
Do you want it to circle larger ships? Fast movement, fast turning, long range weapons.

But to know how to make each, peek at the AI designs and their properties. And remember, 4 as the lowest speed, for even the slowest one.

Remember, though, that the AI will use "8 thrusters" whether it is basic tech or the most advanced. So don't compare end tech speed to early tech speed.

(in reply to towerbooks3192)
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RE: Problem with custom design - 2/13/2014 3:04:00 PM   
towerbooks3192


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bingeling

Start a game at your tech with AI designer. Basic tech, or one step up. Let the AI design its stuff. Watch these designs. Watch the number of engines and directional stuffs. Watch the speeds of escort, frigate, destroyer, cruiser...

This should give you a baseline to design from.

Do you want your ship to be "in your face?". Slower, more armored, powerful short range weapons.
Do you want it to circle larger ships? Fast movement, fast turning, long range weapons.

But to know how to make each, peek at the AI designs and their properties. And remember, 4 as the lowest speed, for even the slowest one.

Remember, though, that the AI will use "8 thrusters" whether it is basic tech or the most advanced. So don't compare end tech speed to early tech speed.


Ok, I will do that. I tried to follow Timothaeus guide for beginners to refresh my memory and he suggested scrapping some of them. Now I keep the initial designs as standards and adjust them to my needs. The last game I had ended me costing tons of money when I went overboard with some of the designs. I tried to be careful in the current game that I just started.

Just a question, aside from those very early abandoned ships I could get, are those Capital ships and Cruisers with advanced technology a good design to aspire for and use it as a standard for what a "good" or even "great" ship is? One of the main problems I reckon I will have with things like using saved designs as standards is when technology will increase the effects of each component or replaced it with components that are more effective and whether if I should aim for lesser components thus lesser cost or same number of components but more effective but more expensive.

(in reply to Bingeling)
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RE: Problem with custom design - 2/13/2014 3:36:39 PM   
Canute0

 

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quote:

The last game I had ended me costing tons of money when I went overboard with some of the designs.

It isn't a question of the design, its more a question of the quantity of the ship.
Special at the early game you don't need much military ships or Spaceports, it is cheaper to pay the pirate until he left the system then to fight him and loose all your ships and mining bases.

quote:

very early abandoned ships I could get, are those Capital ships and Cruisers with advanced technology

You can't improve these designs since you don't own these nessesary components.
You can keep these ship as military ship, one of these ship are more worth then 5-10 of your ships you can build.
Or you an salvage the ship and get a research bonus.

My tip, if it is a big ship and you can affort the maintance cost, keep the ship and destroy pirate bases with it until you can build better own ships.
If you got more then 2 of them, or smaller ones then cruiser, salvage them for tech.
When you found a debris field not that far, you should focus 1-2 construction ship to repair these ships.

(in reply to towerbooks3192)
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RE: Problem with custom design - 2/13/2014 3:56:41 PM   
towerbooks3192


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I actually tried to keep one since I found a capital ship and I tried to kill a pirate base but I had to reload it as it has a hard time killing a pirate base and ended up getting killed. It doesn't have any problem roflstompping any other ships on its way though. Will continue this current game that I am having but I got Shakturi and Vanilla events disabled so I might not find any Capitals. I wasn't expecting that pirate bases are a lot harder to destroy this time around as they were pretty easy on release of shadows.

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RE: Problem with custom design - 2/13/2014 4:25:38 PM   
Bingeling

 

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I assume that the advanced ships are no more than "normal designs", but with more advanced design. So your "AI" ship in late game will be like the best you can find early on.

I think you find some without any story events, but you won't find debris fields with wrecks to repair. That is a distant worlds story thing.

A "crap" AI capital may have 200-300 firepower. A good one will have 400++. It is a difference between 220 and 450 firepower when it comes to killing a pirate base solo.

(in reply to towerbooks3192)
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RE: Problem with custom design - 2/14/2014 12:24:56 PM   
towerbooks3192


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bingeling

I assume that the advanced ships are no more than "normal designs", but with more advanced design. So your "AI" ship in late game will be like the best you can find early on.

I think you find some without any story events, but you won't find debris fields with wrecks to repair. That is a distant worlds story thing.

A "crap" AI capital may have 200-300 firepower. A good one will have 400++. It is a difference between 220 and 450 firepower when it comes to killing a pirate base solo.



Ok, I really thought those capital ships are really cool. But they really decimate anything that stands in the way. I also tried invading one of the AI homeworld but I got crushed. I managed to really decimate all their ships though. I reckon the best way for me to learn is just play and fail then.

One of the other things that I am still thinking of doing is enabling the story lines but then getting crushed by world destroyers.

(in reply to Bingeling)
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