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Proximity Arrays useless? - 1/21/2014 2:11:42 PM   
Deathball

 

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You can see everything in a system, including gas clouds so the only time they come into play is if you fight an enemy in deep space, but when would you ever do that? It allows you to track fleeing ships into hyperspace but that isn't particularly useful either since you're generally not concerned as much about destroying an enemy's warships as taking over his planets.
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RE: Proximity Arrays useless? - 1/22/2014 10:35:04 AM   
Bingeling

 

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I think they work like a very short ranged "long range scanner". At least I have in the past seen a pirate base when a fleet drove across the system (with hyperdrive).

If bored an curious, it is probably possible to test this with the editor.

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RE: Proximity Arrays useless? - 1/22/2014 11:34:14 AM   
Darkspire


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quote:

It allows you to track fleeing ships into hyperspace


That is pretty useless as well, you can target the ship / fleet but the fleet only goes to the last known point the ship / fleet was detected, once your fleet / ship reaches that point they stop even if your ship / fleet is faster, surely if they were working correctly then your ship / fleet should track them to there destination?
Like pirate constructors, they are 90% of the time going to build a base somewhere, you should be able to track them to there destination and destroy them if you have the Proximity Arrays installed

Darkspire

< Message edited by Darkspire -- 1/22/2014 12:34:36 PM >


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RE: Proximity Arrays useless? - 1/22/2014 11:39:54 AM   
Deathball

 

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Just placed a pirate gas mining station at a gas cloud, then had a ship hyperdrive over the gas cloud. It did not detect the mining station.

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RE: Proximity Arrays useless? - 1/22/2014 12:20:27 PM   
Bingeling

 

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It was a nice theory, though :)


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RE: Proximity Arrays useless? - 1/22/2014 3:33:28 PM   
CyclopsSlayer


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It would help somewhat as well if we had a clue as to what the range means. "Scan Range 60,000" means what exactly? 60K millimeters, kilometers, miles, rods, chains, furlongs, frog hops, light seconds??

Light seconds would actually make some sense as Sol star system would be about 60,000 light seconds across if you just counted the planetary orbits. So 60K would be able to see the entire Kuiper belts estimated 50AU radius if say scanning from Earth.

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RE: Proximity Arrays useless? - 1/22/2014 5:35:48 PM   
ASHBERY76


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I have had forces track and destroy alien scum on many occasions so no it's not useless but maybe not much of a tech priority.The same could be said for a fair few techs.

< Message edited by ASHBERY76 -- 1/22/2014 6:56:02 PM >


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RE: Proximity Arrays useless? - 1/22/2014 6:01:23 PM   
Deathball

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CyclopsSlayer

It would help somewhat as well if we had a clue as to what the range means. "Scan Range 60,000" means what exactly? 60K millimeters, kilometers, miles, rods, chains, furlongs, frog hops, light seconds??

Light seconds would actually make some sense as Sol star system would be about 60,000 light seconds across if you just counted the planetary orbits. So 60K would be able to see the entire Kuiper belts estimated 50AU radius if say scanning from Earth.


From testing it seems a scanrange of 60k is about 2-3 times a system diameter, however the proximity array does not actually work inside a system (gimping the whole thing even further).

< Message edited by Deathball -- 1/22/2014 7:04:34 PM >

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RE: Proximity Arrays useless? - 1/22/2014 6:31:24 PM   
SireChaos

 

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Based on my observations, I assume a sector is 2 million by 2 million range units large.

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RE: Proximity Arrays useless? - 1/22/2014 6:31:34 PM   
Osito


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deathball

quote:

ORIGINAL: CyclopsSlayer

It would help somewhat as well if we had a clue as to what the range means. "Scan Range 60,000" means what exactly? 60K millimeters, kilometers, miles, rods, chains, furlongs, frog hops, light seconds??

Light seconds would actually make some sense as Sol star system would be about 60,000 light seconds across if you just counted the planetary orbits. So 60K would be able to see the entire Kuiper belts estimated 50AU radius if say scanning from Earth.


From testing it seems a scanrange of 60k is about 2-3 times a system diameter, however the proximity array does not actually work inside a system (gimping the whole thing even further).


Although I haven't specifically tested it, I suspect the ship sensor range also depends on the number of sectors in the galaxy. The long range scanners you put on spaceports have a lower range (in terms of sector size) in galaxies with fewer sectors, so it makes sense that the ship sensors would be similarly scaled down. On a 15x15 galaxy, the best spaceport scanners have 1.5 million range, and that gives you a radius of about 0.75 sectors, so a 60k sensor range is going to see about 0.03 sectors.

Edit:

quote:

ORIGINAL: SireChaos

Based on my observations, I assume a sector is 2 million by 2 million range units large.


I think that's about right on a 15x15 galaxy.


< Message edited by Osito -- 1/22/2014 7:33:06 PM >

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RE: Proximity Arrays useless? - 1/27/2014 9:25:40 PM   
Spidey


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CyclopsSlayer

It would help somewhat as well if we had a clue as to what the range means. "Scan Range 60,000" means what exactly? 60K millimeters, kilometers, miles, rods, chains, furlongs, frog hops, light seconds??

Light seconds would actually make some sense as Sol star system would be about 60,000 light seconds across if you just counted the planetary orbits. So 60K would be able to see the entire Kuiper belts estimated 50AU radius if say scanning from Earth.

I'm pretty sure it means in-game "distance units". Notice that a sector is a 2000k by 2000k unit square. The ultimate long range scanner has a range of 750k, meaning that it scans a big circle with a diameter of 1500k. This is not scaled by the number of sectors in the game, at least not as far as I know. The range shown is how many distance units out the thing will scan.

I'm also fairly certain that the hyperspace tracking percentage on proximity sensors is the percentage of the total scan distance within which it can detect ships in hyperspace.

quote:

From testing it seems a scanrange of 60k is about 2-3 times a system diameter

I select a ship and point the cursor to the left of a system, remember the x-coordinate, then move the cursor to the right of the system. The coordinates will disappear while the cursor is inside the system radius and then appear again on the other side. At that point, the x-coordinate is 50k higher. This has me suspecting that a system diameter is 50k. That is, the system stretches out in a radius of 25k from the solar center.

< Message edited by Spidey -- 1/27/2014 10:34:27 PM >

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RE: Proximity Arrays useless? - 1/28/2014 7:15:32 AM   
Deathball

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Spidey

quote:

From testing it seems a scanrange of 60k is about 2-3 times a system diameter

I select a ship and point the cursor to the left of a system, remember the x-coordinate, then move the cursor to the right of the system. The coordinates will disappear while the cursor is inside the system radius and then appear again on the other side. At that point, the x-coordinate is 50k higher. This has me suspecting that a system diameter is 50k. That is, the system stretches out in a radius of 25k from the solar center.


Further testing seems to corroborate this. Also it seems ships outside a system can detect ships inside a system but not vice versa.

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RE: Proximity Arrays useless? - 1/28/2014 11:58:10 AM   
CyclopsSlayer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deathball


quote:

ORIGINAL: Spidey

quote:

From testing it seems a scanrange of 60k is about 2-3 times a system diameter

I select a ship and point the cursor to the left of a system, remember the x-coordinate, then move the cursor to the right of the system. The coordinates will disappear while the cursor is inside the system radius and then appear again on the other side. At that point, the x-coordinate is 50k higher. This has me suspecting that a system diameter is 50k. That is, the system stretches out in a radius of 25k from the solar center.


Further testing seems to corroborate this. Also it seems ships outside a system can detect ships inside a system but not vice versa.

Hmm, so mounting Long Range Scanners and Proximity Sensors on planet orbiting stations serves no purpose I guess?
That would explain the number of bases/listening posts found in mid space.

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RE: Proximity Arrays useless? - 1/28/2014 12:43:26 PM   
Deathball

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CyclopsSlayer


quote:

ORIGINAL: Deathball


quote:

ORIGINAL: Spidey

quote:

From testing it seems a scanrange of 60k is about 2-3 times a system diameter

I select a ship and point the cursor to the left of a system, remember the x-coordinate, then move the cursor to the right of the system. The coordinates will disappear while the cursor is inside the system radius and then appear again on the other side. At that point, the x-coordinate is 50k higher. This has me suspecting that a system diameter is 50k. That is, the system stretches out in a radius of 25k from the solar center.


Further testing seems to corroborate this. Also it seems ships outside a system can detect ships inside a system but not vice versa.

Hmm, so mounting Long Range Scanners and Proximity Sensors on planet orbiting stations serves no purpose I guess?
That would explain the number of bases/listening posts found in mid space.


Long Range Scanners work fine wherever you put them, the reason the AI likes to put monitoring stations in deep space is because it makes them harder to find. Proximity arrays on stations however seem to be completely useless.

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RE: Proximity Arrays useless? - 1/29/2014 5:53:52 AM   
Spidey


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quote:

Proximity arrays on stations however seem to be completely useless.

Almost completely useless, I suspect, but ships with proximity arrays do have limited hyperspace tracking and I believe this works inside systems as well. In other words, instead of pirates disappearing like they've teleported whenever they enter hyperspace, you have a brief window in which you can see what direction they're warping. Useful? Not all that much, at least not until you've invested a crapload of research into the proximity sensors and reached two digit hyperspace tracking percentages.

Still, I personally wouldn't bother with proximity gear on bases. I throw long range scanners on mines and exploration ships and that tends to take care of my needs. Seems a bit odd to have that sort of gear on mining facilities rather than military facilities but I'd rather have the private sector pay the upkeep if I can help it and if I'm going to spam mines anyway, they might as well also serve a strategic purpose.

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RE: Proximity Arrays useless? - 1/29/2014 6:27:07 AM   
CyclopsSlayer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Spidey

quote:

Proximity arrays on stations however seem to be completely useless.

Still, I personally wouldn't bother with proximity gear on bases. I throw long range scanners on mines and exploration ships and that tends to take care of my needs. Seems a bit odd to have that sort of gear on mining facilities rather than military facilities but I'd rather have the private sector pay the upkeep if I can help it and if I'm going to spam mines anyway, they might as well also serve a strategic purpose.

I tend to place LRScanners on bases, including Resorts. Never thought to pop them on Explorers but that is a decent idea.

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RE: Proximity Arrays useless? - 2/25/2014 11:19:08 AM   
Sirian


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LR Scanners on exploration ships are *awesome*. Place one in deep space next to an enemies system and you see all, hear all and know all. I cannot remember losing one of those to a computer player. And even if I did, they're cheap. For added safety one can fit a cloak, too... :-) Also tremendously helps when chasing Phantom Pirates, or looking for their base.

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RE: Proximity Arrays useless? - 2/25/2014 4:46:33 PM   
Ardilus


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What is odd is that ships without proximity arrays can still track targets moving in hyperspace. The range appears to work as described above, but what exactly is the % figure figuring? I've been wondering if this has to do with accuracy of jump destination, as in how close ships will be to target location on arrival?

< Message edited by Ardilus -- 2/25/2014 5:48:19 PM >

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RE: Proximity Arrays useless? - 2/25/2014 6:20:17 PM   
Spacecadet

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CyclopsSlayer

It would help somewhat as well if we had a clue as to what the range means. "Scan Range 60,000" means what exactly? 60K millimeters, kilometers, miles, rods, chains, furlongs, frog hops, light seconds??

Light seconds would actually make some sense as Sol star system would be about 60,000 light seconds across if you just counted the planetary orbits. So 60K would be able to see the entire Kuiper belts estimated 50AU radius if say scanning from Earth.


All range values :

1 Pixel at maximum zoom level = 1 Range


So 60,000 Range is 60,000 pixels at maximum zoom

A Sector is 2,000,000 x 2,000,000 pixels, regardless of whether it is a 4 x 4 or 15 x 15 sector map.

More FYI (@ Spidey), yes, a system is approximately 50,000 pixels.


EDIT (History) :

I had questions on these values as well when testing Shadows (first Warp Drive), and asked Elliot to put in the range factor in the Ship Design screen.
Initially it was going to be the pixel value, but it made more sense and was less cluttered to convert it to sectors.


This info may be in the Galactopedia somewhere as well, but I don't recall encountering it myself.





< Message edited by Spacecadet -- 2/25/2014 7:34:36 PM >


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RE: Proximity Arrays useless? - 2/26/2014 2:25:18 PM   
ReadeB

 

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Not sure about range, but I believe the Proximity Arrays are generating the messages about "The 53rd fleet is on an attack vector to blah blah mining station"

My defensive fleets then sit and wait for the attacking fleet to arrive.

Nice feature.

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