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RE: Shell hits on Yamato ( just curious)

 
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RE: Shell hits on Yamato ( just curious) - 1/27/2014 9:11:25 PM   
FDRLincoln


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I'm not saying this is what happened in the actual game engine, but I can imagine a real life scenario where a "lucky hit" from a US 6-inch penetrates something like an ammunition magazine for Yamato's 6-inch or AA guns, causing an explosion which does substantial damage to the ship.

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RE: Shell hits on Yamato ( just curious) - 1/27/2014 10:55:00 PM   
wdolson

 

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A small ship with a good captain can close to within knife fighting range on a BB without getting hit. The USS Johnston did at the Battle Off Samar. The Johnston got so close to the Kongo that the Kongo couldn't depress her main guns down far enough. The Johnston pretty much emptied her magazines against the Kongo, hitting her many times with practice rounds when everything else ran out.

The game engine does allow for critical hits. I don't think they show up in the combat report. I believe they do show up in the status screen which is also recorded in a file on disk. Accidents can happen too. It's possible the Yamato had a premature explosion while loading the main guns, or a fire broke out from an accident during the fight.

Bill

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RE: Shell hits on Yamato ( just curious) - 1/28/2014 12:12:26 AM   
Disco Duck


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

The Combat Report does not indicate which weapon fired.  The Yamato has other weapons besides 460mm guns.

Unless you watched the actual combat animation you would not know what actually fired.

Alfred


In the game at close range, rarely does a BB land a MA hit on any ship. I personally really do not fear old BBs at night. Almost always the hits come from secondary armament. Could even be AA guns. There is a historical basis for this as older BBs and CAs has slow turrets, dated fire control systems and slow rate of fire. The frequent course changes in a close night action limited the usefulness of the main armament.

Once again. Watching the combat replay again would be the only solution-unless it was a sync bug. I doubt very seriously if you would see any six inch projectiles penetrate the Yamato. I just don't think it is possible in game terms.



Is there any way to replay the combat animation? I know replaying the turn doesn't work because it is always a little different. Many time I have wanted to re-watch it.

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RE: Shell hits on Yamato ( just curious) - 1/28/2014 4:33:29 AM   
Alfred

 

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Replaying the turn does work.

Change absolutely nothing in the orders phase and the same seed number is used, resulting in the same replay.

Alfred

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RE: Shell hits on Yamato ( just curious) - 1/28/2014 11:31:14 AM   
spence

 

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Quite some time ago I read "A Glorious Way to Die" which concerned itself with the last sortie of Yamato. IIRC it was written by a Ltjg who was an Assistant Damage Control Officer. I remember him mentioning a couple of defects in the design of Yamato which came into play during her last sortie: the longitudinal bulkhead in the middle of the iron box (belt protected) which hampered or prevented counterflooding within that area and the over-concentration of the ship's AAA defenses.

I didn't see anything in the text of the replay that suggests a secondary explosion (of AAA ammo) but the game system seems to protect the entire hull of Yamato with the belt armor so the flotation damage does seem a mystery.

Perhaps it is just best to remember that "unsinkable" is also a very unlucky adjective for a ship.

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RE: Shell hits on Yamato ( just curious) - 1/28/2014 2:47:49 PM   
tigercub


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yes "unsinkable" ships tended to "sink" a lot :P

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RE: Shell hits on Yamato Interesting links - 1/30/2014 4:23:01 PM   
Disco Duck


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After the war the Navy found some armor plate that had been destined for the Shinano. The first link is a picture of the armor after being hit with a 16 shell and the second link is a summary of the ballistic tests on the same armor.
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/antique-machinery-history/26-inch-armor-plate-japanese-shipyard-113898/

http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-040.htm

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RE: Shell hits on Yamato Interesting links - 1/30/2014 5:05:28 PM   
pontiouspilot


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Fascinating discussion.

Was this the right TF composition for Yamato? I should think that this composition is more likely to bring her in to these short ranges.

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RE: Shell hits on Yamato Interesting links - 1/31/2014 12:11:12 AM   
crsutton


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I believe it was Helena that made a close range run past the BB Hiei during the first Naval Battle of Guadalcanal wrecking Hiei's superstructure with five and six inch shells while suffering little or nothing from return fire. The crippled Hiei went down the next day.

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RE: Shell hits on Yamato Interesting links - 1/31/2014 1:40:18 AM   
Disco Duck


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

I believe it was Helena that made a close range run past the BB Hiei during the first Naval Battle of Guadalcanal wrecking Hiei's superstructure with five and six inch shells while suffering little or nothing from return fire. The crippled Hiei went down the next day.


According to this it was the DD Laffey which suffered heavily from return fire.
The enemy battleship continued on her course and bore down on our second destroyer, the Laffey. Only by speeding up did the Laffey manage to cross the enemy's bows with a few feet to spare. Two torpedoes were fired, but the range was so short that there was not time enough for them to arm. The Laffey then shelled the battleship's bridge with all guns that would bear, damaging it severely before she was silenced by a heavy caliber salvo which smashed her own bridge, as well as No. 2 turret, the after fireroom, and the electrical workshop.

From http://www.history.navy.mil/library/online/battleguadalcanal1942.htm

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RE: Shell hits on Yamato ( just curious) - 2/12/2014 12:42:16 PM   
John Lansford

 

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Yamato has a virtual army's worth of guns; 18", 6.1", 5" and the antiaircraft guns as well, all which will engage a surface target depending on the range. USS Concord getting hit by Yamato doesn't mean they were all 18" hits; given the fight was at night and short range, most of the hits were probably from the 5" and AA guns if not all of them. As for the floatation damage on Yamato, I've not seen a CL's guns get through Yamato's armor yet but perhaps it was caused by firefighting efforts? A hit on a secondary turret does have the possibility of causing a big fire and I think even leads to a magazine being flooded.

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RE: Shell hits on Yamato Interesting links - 2/12/2014 1:47:46 PM   
crsutton


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Disco Duck


After the war the Navy found some armor plate that had been destined for the Shinano. The first link is a picture of the armor after being hit with a 16 shell and the second link is a summary of the ballistic tests on the same armor.
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/antique-machinery-history/26-inch-armor-plate-japanese-shipyard-113898/

http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-040.htm




The hunk of metal in these photos sits in the museum park at the Washington Navy Yard. One of my favorite museums in the whole world. If you go to DC, put it on your bucket list. You can thank me later.


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RE: Shell hits on Yamato Interesting links - 2/12/2014 2:57:15 PM   
jeffk3510


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That hunk of metal is amazing. Thanks for sharing.

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