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problems loading oil - 1/17/2014 4:37:13 AM   
wga8888


Posts: 380
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From: Sachse, Texas USA
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I had a oil transport TF, enroute from West Coast to the SoPac/Australia. It was running short of fuel (no oilers) so I had it stop in Hilo (port size 5). it unloaded the oil upon arrival. since then I have not been able to get the oil loaded back on, tf keeks sailing away empty. Make sure setting is on 'do not unload', tried disbanding and reforming. The oil seems stuck. I am interested in any suggestions. I would hate to write the oil off.

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RE: problems loading oil - 1/17/2014 11:30:19 AM   
guytipton41


Posts: 351
Joined: 2/26/2011
From: Houston, TX
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Hi WGA,

1. Write the oil off, you're swimming in it.

2. I've noticed that oil loads much slower than fuel. No idea why.

Cheers,
Guy

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Post #: 2
RE: problems loading oil - 1/17/2014 12:32:46 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: guytipton41

Hi WGA,

1. Write the oil off, you're swimming in it.

2. I've noticed that oil loads much slower than fuel. No idea why.

Cheers,
Guy


Oil only loads if it's in excess of local refinery demand. That isn't the case almost anywhere on the Allied map. For the most part the Allies never need to move oil. Move fuel. If a refinery is in need of oil, such as at Melbourne, you usually just have to accept the loss of the supply generated and make it up in the HI cities such as Sydney, by using fuel shipped in.

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RE: problems loading oil - 1/17/2014 12:49:11 PM   
pws1225

 

Posts: 1164
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From: Tate's Hell, Florida
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: guytipton41

Hi WGA,

1. Write the oil off, you're swimming in it.

2. I've noticed that oil loads much slower than fuel. No idea why.

Cheers,
Guy


Oil only loads if it's in excess of local refinery demand. That isn't the case almost anywhere on the Allied map. For the most part the Allies never need to move oil. Move fuel. If a refinery is in need of oil, such as at Melbourne, you usually just have to accept the loss of the supply generated and make it up in the HI cities such as Sydney, by using fuel shipped in.


Don't most Allied players simply turn off HI in Oz and import supplies and fuel (for TFs) from Capetown and the West Coast?

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Post #: 4
RE: problems loading oil - 1/17/2014 12:58:01 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pws1225


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: guytipton41

Hi WGA,

1. Write the oil off, you're swimming in it.

2. I've noticed that oil loads much slower than fuel. No idea why.

Cheers,
Guy


Oil only loads if it's in excess of local refinery demand. That isn't the case almost anywhere on the Allied map. For the most part the Allies never need to move oil. Move fuel. If a refinery is in need of oil, such as at Melbourne, you usually just have to accept the loss of the supply generated and make it up in the HI cities such as Sydney, by using fuel shipped in.


Don't most Allied players simply turn off HI in Oz and import supplies and fuel (for TFs) from Capetown and the West Coast?


Some do, some don't. For me it varies by era. Sydney's HI plant pumps out massive amounts of supply though, and it flows easily up the coast where it's usually needed.

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RE: problems loading oil - 1/17/2014 1:02:29 PM   
Encircled


Posts: 1755
Joined: 12/30/2010
From: Northern England
Status: online
I think turning off the HI is one thing that the Allies shouldn't do.

But each to their own!


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RE: problems loading oil - 1/17/2014 3:23:29 PM   
wga8888


Posts: 380
Joined: 9/29/2010
From: Sachse, Texas USA
Status: offline
When I started using the tracker in May 42, I get a lot of daily messages that India, Russia, and Australia HI is short of oil So I started shipping from US west cost until the KB showed up in the shipping lanes around Canton. My orphaned oil is in Hilo.

In reading responses, it seems shipping to oil is questionable, impact is just lower supply generated. Shipping is not safe at this time until KB scuttles itself. 90 zeros and 150 Kates makes

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bill@wargameacademy.org
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RE: problems loading oil - 1/17/2014 11:38:56 PM   
wdolson

 

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The refineries in Australia are small and don't produce much fuel. I've moved oil from Palembang to Australia before that area got too hot to move anything. One or two tanker fulls keep the refineries in Oz going for several months. Australia does produce a lot of supply from HI, but you need fuel to do that. Depending on the operational demands for ships and the dangers to the supply routes from the US, you may not be able to ship enough fuel to Oz to keep both HI running at full capacity and fuel your ships. Shutting off HI in Australia is robbing Peter to pay Paul though as it increases the external supply demand in Oz.

You should be shipping as much fuel as you can to Australia in the early going. Whether you want to throw in a tanker or two full of oil is optional.

I'm surprised you were getting messages India was shy of oil. I've never had to ship oil to India, just fuel. Russia is on its own until activated. Its problem is most of its oil is generated on an island and the refineries are on the mainland. Until you get Russian tankers and safe enough waters to move the oil, the Russian refineries will just starve.

The Allies get so much fuel from off map and the US that moving oil is not really required unless you want to dot a couple of 'i's.

I'm wondering how you ended up with tankers on the Australia route that they started to run low on fuel by the time you got to Hawaii. Most Allied tankers have endurance of around 12000 or 8000. Even the 8000 endurance tankers can make Australia, though they will suck up some of their cargo refueling before returning. in the early going I sort my tankers to send most of the 8000 endurance to Adan and most of the 12000 endurance to Los Angeles. I have a few 8000 endurance based on the West Coast to ship fuel to Alaska and Hawaii and a few built up bases in the South Pacific, but the 12000 endurance tankers are the ones to make the Oz trips. The 8000 endurance tankers can hump a lot of fuel from Adan to Karachi. I usually end up with India swimming in fuel. The 8000 tankers can make the Adan/Ceylon trip easily too.

As the frontline moves, you may need to change the assignments a bit, but generally the 12000 tankers are better operating out of West Coast ports.

Bill

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RE: problems loading oil - 1/18/2014 5:58:36 AM   
wga8888


Posts: 380
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From: Sachse, Texas USA
Status: offline
My opponent captured Asonsal, Dacca, Chandpur, Diamond Harbor, and Calcutta. Now focusing on knocking off north Burma. Likley why India is short of oil.

I still have oil in Hilo I cannot load onto a tanker.

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Bill Thomson
bill@wargameacademy.org
skype: wga8888
817-501-2978 CST [-6 GMT]

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RE: problems loading oil - 1/18/2014 3:08:10 PM   
rms1pa

 

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quote:

still have oil in Hilo I cannot load onto a tanker.


as said before , just leave it.

it won't load or load slowly as oil tries to use the liquid handling of the port and as there is no refinery there are no liquid handling for oil there.

rms/pa

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RE: problems loading oil - 1/19/2014 2:58:25 PM   
Louisvillan


Posts: 74
Joined: 1/18/2014
From: Louisville
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Thanks for sharing this topic. I've been slurping information off this forum for over three years and I continue to learn new things all the time. I play Allies against the Japanese AI (I'm just not a good PBEM candidate). Santa brought me a new tablet & mobile hotspot for the holidays and I've resolved to begin participating in these topics).

Somehow I've managed to overlook the refineries in Australia. My current game is dated Oct 15th, 1942 and I now need to shift some tankers to hauling oil from LA to Sydney. I'm thinking I'll split one tanker from the TF at LA upon arrival, load it with Oil, then transfer it back into the convoy upon departure for Sydney.

With all the tanker capacity the Allies have, it's usually not a problem to keep the fuel flowing to Australia. My set up is very similar to wdolson's comments, I also run some 12000 endurance tankers from Abadan to Perth (using waypoints that hug the eastern map edge, and refueling at Perth for the return trip).

One lesson learned, after a large amphibious landing at Milne Bay, upon returning to Townsville the transports and AK's sucked up all available fuel. Going forward I need to remember to include some loaded AO's in the staging area.... all the little things about this game keeps me addicted.

Thanks again.

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Post #: 11
RE: problems loading oil - 1/19/2014 3:03:25 PM   
pws1225

 

Posts: 1164
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From: Tate's Hell, Florida
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Post #1. That's a good start. Welcome to the forums.

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Post #: 12
RE: problems loading oil - 1/19/2014 5:47:30 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11301
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Louisvillan

Thanks for sharing this topic. I've been slurping information off this forum for over three years and I continue to learn new things all the time. I play Allies against the Japanese AI (I'm just not a good PBEM candidate). Santa brought me a new tablet & mobile hotspot for the holidays and I've resolved to begin participating in these topics).

Somehow I've managed to overlook the refineries in Australia. My current game is dated Oct 15th, 1942 and I now need to shift some tankers to hauling oil from LA to Sydney. I'm thinking I'll split one tanker from the TF at LA upon arrival, load it with Oil, then transfer it back into the convoy upon departure for Sydney.

With all the tanker capacity the Allies have, it's usually not a problem to keep the fuel flowing to Australia. My set up is very similar to wdolson's comments, I also run some 12000 endurance tankers from Abadan to Perth (using waypoints that hug the eastern map edge, and refueling at Perth for the return trip).

One lesson learned, after a large amphibious landing at Milne Bay, upon returning to Townsville the transports and AK's sucked up all available fuel. Going forward I need to remember to include some loaded AO's in the staging area.... all the little things about this game keeps me addicted.

Thanks again.


Loading oil at LA will take forever. There just isn't the quantity in excess of local refinery demand. It will do it after a time, but it's a misuse of a good TK IMO. The amount of supply generated by the Oz refineries is tiny and not worth hauling oil. It just isn't. Give Sydney the same fuel--right now--and the HI machine will crank out supply in six-figures.

There's another Perth/fuel option I don't think I've ever seen in the forums. Works well from mid-42 until it doesn't matter anymore. As I've long advocated, move huge numbers of refugee xAKs off-map to CT as soon as possible at war's start. Run a couple of EC-to-CT cycles with them on fuel to get over the initial CT hump. At the same time run TKs from Abadan to Karachi. This will flow mostly to Bombay. Don't know why, but it does. By the summer Bombay often has 800,000 or more fuel to run its HI. Far in excess of reqs. At the same time CT has gotten many free convoys in full of mostly supply, and you need supply in Burma. If you set the spinners right supply will easily flow to Calcutta and be available for distribution into Burma during the monsoon. You can pull Bombay dry of supplies easily while it sits on close to a million fuel.

So. By mid-1942 shift off-cycle xAKs from the EC run, and load them with supply at CT. Run them to Bombay to fill that pipe for Burma. And backload them with FUEL (Abadan fuel originally) to haul BACK to CT. At CT re-load this fuel for Perth with dedicated CT-to-Perth xAKs. Big and fast ones.

What's the advantage? Running map edge to Bombay is a low submarine enviro. Running Abadan to Karachi is the same. Running CT to Perth is much safer than running Abadan to Perth and back. In general there is an IO Rule: go E-W as much as possible. Avoid N-S. This scheme minimizes exposure time to subs, and gets work out of the Bombay-to-CT backhaul route.



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RE: problems loading oil - 1/19/2014 7:01:30 PM   
Louisvillan


Posts: 74
Joined: 1/18/2014
From: Louisville
Status: offline
Thanks for the follow up...you saved a bunch of wasted time for a big tanker.

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Fair Winds and Following Seas

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Post #: 14
RE: problems loading oil - 1/19/2014 10:57:32 PM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 10373
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
Loading oil at LA will take forever. There just isn't the quantity in excess of local refinery demand. It will do it after a time, but it's a misuse of a good TK IMO. The amount of supply generated by the Oz refineries is tiny and not worth hauling oil. It just isn't. Give Sydney the same fuel--right now--and the HI machine will crank out supply in six-figures.

There's another Perth/fuel option I don't think I've ever seen in the forums. Works well from mid-42 until it doesn't matter anymore. As I've long advocated, move huge numbers of refugee xAKs off-map to CT as soon as possible at war's start. Run a couple of EC-to-CT cycles with them on fuel to get over the initial CT hump. At the same time run TKs from Abadan to Karachi. This will flow mostly to Bombay. Don't know why, but it does. By the summer Bombay often has 800,000 or more fuel to run its HI. Far in excess of reqs. At the same time CT has gotten many free convoys in full of mostly supply, and you need supply in Burma. If you set the spinners right supply will easily flow to Calcutta and be available for distribution into Burma during the monsoon. You can pull Bombay dry of supplies easily while it sits on close to a million fuel.

So. By mid-1942 shift off-cycle xAKs from the EC run, and load them with supply at CT. Run them to Bombay to fill that pipe for Burma. And backload them with FUEL (Abadan fuel originally) to haul BACK to CT. At CT re-load this fuel for Perth with dedicated CT-to-Perth xAKs. Big and fast ones.

What's the advantage? Running map edge to Bombay is a low submarine enviro. Running Abadan to Karachi is the same. Running CT to Perth is much safer than running Abadan to Perth and back. In general there is an IO Rule: go E-W as much as possible. Avoid N-S. This scheme minimizes exposure time to subs, and gets work out of the Bombay-to-CT backhaul route.



You can load oil in Los Angeles by turning off the refineries temporarily. Under normal conditions the US has enough refinery capacity to convert all oil produced into fuel.

Fuel tends to gravitate towards larger ports when there is excess of needs. When there is more than one port of the same size, it trends towards the larger base (airfield plus port). At least that is how it worked at one time. Supply/resource movement has changed since I last worked on the code.

There is also some tendency to gravitate toward a base with a theater command. Bombay has the theater command HQ, plus I believe it's the largest base in India at start.

Bill

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