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Where are the big GIUK and Atlantic battlesets?

 
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Where are the big GIUK and Atlantic battlesets? - 1/4/2014 5:01:01 AM   
spookyer

 

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Hi all, playing harpoon many moons ago I use to love the GIUK and Atlantic convoy battlesets.

I have been hanging out for something along these lines to be released, are they in the pipeline now that people are used to the scenario editors?
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RE: Where are the big GIUK and Atlantic battlesets? - 1/4/2014 5:07:16 AM   
bgeery

 

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I sure hope so. I miss the cold war stuff.

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RE: Where are the big GIUK and Atlantic battlesets? - 1/4/2014 4:25:55 PM   
SSN754planker


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+1 to this! I am a child of the cold war, i remember the big bad Soviet Union, I remember "The Day After", and i sure remember LOVING the GIUK and Atlantic convoy battlesets!

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RE: Where are the big GIUK and Atlantic battlesets? - 1/4/2014 5:01:00 PM   
Darkwing

 

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I'm keen on the EC-2000 Battlesets...or maybe even an updated version of them (EC-2015 or something!)

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RE: Where are the big GIUK and Atlantic battlesets? - 1/4/2014 7:56:06 PM   
navwarcol

 

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The needed things already are in the database for this, you can create pretty much anything you can imagine for those cold war years. Or did you perhaps mean you were wondering if anyone else has created any yet?
With the entire world available, as well as equipment from the entire world from the 1946-2025ish time frames already in there, I do not imagine there to be a need for 'harpoon' style "battle sets" because one can go much deeper than that already.

< Message edited by navwarcol -- 1/4/2014 8:59:35 PM >

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RE: Where are the big GIUK and Atlantic battlesets? - 1/4/2014 11:57:36 PM   
Randomizer


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The tools are there as Navwarcol has written and all that's required is somebody to create the situations and author the scenarios. Waiting for some unknown, unidentified and unsung Command player to do the work for you is a pretty good way of making sure that they never get done.

-C

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RE: Where are the big GIUK and Atlantic battlesets? - 1/5/2014 9:05:02 AM   
CaptCarnage

 

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Especially if you don't use the word 'please' in the OT ;)

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RE: Where are the big GIUK and Atlantic battlesets? - 1/5/2014 11:16:29 AM   
navwarcol

 

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My reply was not intended to be negative towards the original post, it was in reality a bit of confusion. The Harpoon "battleset" was limited to a small geographic area (CMANO has 'the entire world' ) with platforms and bases from that area. There really isn't any need to develop a battleset for CMANO because of that, so I was not sure if the OP meant "Will someone develop scenarios for GIUK area?" or if I was mistaken somewhere.

< Message edited by navwarcol -- 1/5/2014 12:39:50 PM >

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RE: Where are the big GIUK and Atlantic battlesets? - 1/5/2014 7:37:25 PM   
spookyer

 

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Hi navwarcol, no offense taken. When I used the term "battleset" I was referring to a group of scenarios that "build up" ending in major confrontation between Nato and the Warsaw pact in this particular geographical area. Classic cold war/Red Storm rising type scenarios if you like from first contact type scenarios to multiple carrier battlegroups and regiments of backfires etc.

As for those who seem to think I am being ungracious in not saying "please" if you read my post I asked if anyone was working on this sort of thing and I include the developers in this. Seemed fairly harmless to me.

I will finish this post with a "please" in case some thing I am not being polite!


PLEASE

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RE: Where are the big GIUK and Atlantic battlesets? - 1/5/2014 7:44:13 PM   
mikmykWS

 

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RE: Where are the big GIUK and Atlantic battlesets? - 1/5/2014 9:27:43 PM   
pandoraefretum

 

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I'd like some original scenarios too, please!

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RE: Where are the big GIUK and Atlantic battlesets? - 1/5/2014 9:40:06 PM   
Wiz33

 

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Well. Along the same idea. But I would actually want to see new scenario from the Coldwar era set in the Pacific since that was one area that was not covered by the original Harpoon release (although the Westpac battleset was finally added many years later).

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RE: Where are the big GIUK and Atlantic battlesets? - 1/5/2014 9:56:43 PM   
Russian Heel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wiz33

Well. Along the same idea. But I would actually want to see new scenario from the Coldwar era set in the Pacific since that was one area that was not covered by the original Harpoon release (although the Westpac battleset was finally added many years later).


I just uploaded a test version of one of those. Check it out.

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RE: Where are the big GIUK and Atlantic battlesets? - 1/5/2014 10:11:53 PM   
navwarcol

 

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I also enjoyed the CW scenarios, some excellent ones Ragnar did.
I will try to work some in that time frame when my current work is finished, which now that my 'day job' is back on probably won't be until later this winter. The great thing with CMANO is its unlimited geography, which means you can really do a convoy concept, beginning to end, from the US coastline, through unloading in a European port, then the empty container ships return, complete with escorts along the way, Soviet submarines, backfire threat, etc. My mouth waters at the thought lol.

(in reply to Russian Heel)
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RE: Where are the big GIUK and Atlantic battlesets? - 1/6/2014 5:40:24 PM   
Bigfish

 

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GIUK and Atlantic battlesets are may favorite too. So a few days after release of CMANO i started to recreate my TOP 1 "Cutting the Nose" from original Harpoon GUIK Battleset.

But i stoped working on this, because there are too many bugs in CMANO.

Also the Editor is month away from being a good tool creating scenarios:
- The presets of Installations are usless:
___* Add three airfields and assaign those targtes to events/actions/... - which runway belongs to which airfield?
___* It is neceesary to rename every buidling so you can identify it and assaign ist to events/actions/... - this is awesome
- There are still not enough bases in the presets, so you have to create your own - awesome again
- There are no multiply functions - so you have to do a click orgie to setup events/actions - awesome again
- If you add weapons to ammo stores the game slows down horrifying - awesome again
- If you add planes to an base you have to look which weapons are necesary in the ammo stores
___* It would be much better if the ammo stores filled up automatically with correct weapons for all hosted planes
- Build up surface groups need s too much research because there are no information about available ship quantity and there names
___* You have to name every ship by your own, it would be much easier to select this from an database list...


So creating a CMANO scenario is like inventing a wheel! But i don't want to invent a wheel - i know about wheels - i want to use wheels !!!

So i decided to give CMANO some months for ongoing development before i start again with creating scenarios...

< Message edited by Bigfish -- 1/6/2014 6:49:47 PM >


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RE: Where are the big GIUK and Atlantic battlesets? - 1/6/2014 7:10:44 PM   
navwarcol

 

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I wonder if you are using the same CMANO that I am...
I realize you said "a few days after release of CMANO..." perhaps you should try it now....
there are over a thousand preset bases for the Cold War.
You can add a base, then work on events/actions involving it.. then add another base, repeat. This is something I have already done with the modern database, and it takes precisely the same amount of time that it takes to add every base, then add every trigger, etc.... no more time.
Harpoon had the same issues as far as adding to triggers, etc. Create 20 bases, want to trigger a specific building in one, you must somehow find it.
Adding weapons to ammo stores does not slow down the game... in my current scenario being designed, there are 30+ bases around the PG, with full magazines, and the scenario runs fine.
Harpoon did not "fill up magazines automatically for the planes" either...
Harpoon 3 did not name ships either, you had to name your own... not a big deal, again, making a scenario I prefer naming mine, also prefer the ability to add fictional ones where a database that already named them, would lack that ability.
In short, there are over a hundred excellent scenarios already written by people who apparently had none of these issues.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bigfish

GIUK and Atlantic battlesets are may favorite too. So a few days after release of CMANO i started to recreate my TOP 1 "Cutting the Nose" from original Harpoon GUIK Battleset.

But i stoped working on this, because there are too many bugs in CMANO.

Also the Editor is month away from being a good tool creating scenarios:
- The presets of Installations are usless:
___* Add three airfields and assaign those targtes to events/actions/... - which runway belongs to which airfield?
___* It is neceesary to rename every buidling so you can identify it and assaign ist to events/actions/... - this is awesome
- There are still not enough bases in the presets, so you have to create your own - awesome again
- There are no multiply functions - so you have to do a click orgie to setup events/actions - awesome again
- If you add weapons to ammo stores the game slows down horrifying - awesome again
- If you add planes to an base you have to look which weapons are necesary in the ammo stores
___* It would be much better if the ammo stores filled up automatically with correct weapons for all hosted planes
- Build up surface groups need s too much research because there are no information about available ship quantity and there names
___* You have to name every ship by your own, it would be much easier to select this from an database list...


So creating a CMANO scenario is like inventing a wheel! But i don't want to invent a wheel - i know about wheels - i want to use wheels !!!

So i decided to give CMANO some months for ongoing development before i start again with creating scenarios...



< Message edited by navwarcol -- 1/6/2014 9:03:02 PM >

(in reply to Bigfish)
Post #: 16
RE: Where are the big GIUK and Atlantic battlesets? - 1/6/2014 8:08:13 PM   
cuthbo2001

 

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Jesus, navwarcol, penny drop ,I feel so dumb ! Add base one at time and then work on relevant event. That has reduced workload.
Bigfish , there seems to be a plethora of scenarios in pipeline ,which would suggest it is a functioning editor. From my point of view as someone has already said relearning is a challenge

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RE: Where are the big GIUK and Atlantic battlesets? - 1/6/2014 8:52:51 PM   
Randomizer


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IMHO and based on the current version the Editor is just fine; both user friendly and tremendously powerful. I intend to start writing scenarios once I get the game itself down pat particularly the complex relationships between the various assets as the scenarios play out. The community has already done a vast amount of work to grow CMANO and as the experience levels rise we should see all manner of user-built scenarios.

Am really looking forward to testing the limits of the Event Editor since initial examination indicates that this allows all manner of opportunities for the scenario author. This is a feature that most scenario designers have longed for for years.

-C

(in reply to cuthbo2001)
Post #: 18
RE: Where are the big GIUK and Atlantic battlesets? - 1/6/2014 8:56:40 PM   
Bigfish

 

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quote:

there are over a thousand preset bases for the Cold War.


Cold war ended when? 1989? CWDB stops 1979 - creating scens from 1980 till 1989 can't use CWDB Bases. So only a few bases left...


quote:

You can add a base, then work on events/actions involving it.. then add another base, repeat.


Sorry! But this .... - I have to break up creating bases, add events, continue creating bases. And how did you differ between installations from the same base? Should a human do what the computer says, or should a computer do what a human says? Your way is not very logical...


quote:

Harpoon had the same issues as far as adding to triggers,


Because Harpoon had the same issue it is not an issue? Sorry but it is an issue and it should be fixed! Also which Harpoon? Harpoon Classic or Harpoon 3?


quote:

Adding weapons to ammo stores does not slow down the game...


I think you don't understand. Adding weapons is quit slow if you add more and more. If you have dozens of different weapon typs in the magazin and you will add more the game (the EDITOR!!!) frezes for about 20-30 seconds (Just tested with B480 again).


quote:

Harpoon did not "fill up magazines automatically for the planes" either...


And this should be an argument why CMANO dont' need such a function? Sorry...


quote:

Harpoon 3 did not name ships either, you had to name your own...


Again - This should be an argument why CMANO dont' need such a function? Sorry...- Also Harpoon Classic has this function!



quote:

In short, there are over a hundred excellent scenarios already written by people who apparently had none of these issues.


Sure? They did not have this issues? Or they have this issues but they still works on there scens ignoring this issues?

(in reply to cuthbo2001)
Post #: 19
RE: Where are the big GIUK and Atlantic battlesets? - 1/6/2014 9:20:16 PM   
navwarcol

 

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The modern database has over 1000 installations as well.. total for both databases is close to 3.000
There have been issues that others have worked around, yes.
The method I have used with bases, has worked as I said, just as fast, as the order in which you want to go, faster even, since it saves me from needing to know which base I am looking for, to make a trigger..just use what is listed so far, then when done with those, add more pieces, then put those into the event editor and victory conditions.
As far as the other things you are asking for, that Harpoon also did not have...
your post suggested that you wanted to build your favorite Harpoon scenario... that is great. But whomever built that in Harpoon, also had to work around the same (and actually many more) issues... this is my only point. Making a really good scenario, as you are hoping to do, will ALWAYS take a lot of work. I have made plenty with both, and this editor is far easier, far more user friendly..this is my only point here.
Edit: Also build 483 is "current"

< Message edited by navwarcol -- 1/6/2014 10:21:31 PM >

(in reply to Bigfish)
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RE: Where are the big GIUK and Atlantic battlesets? - 1/6/2014 9:50:52 PM   
mikmykWS

 

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Hi Guys,

D and I discussed and he brought up adding a autopopulate magazine feature. Added to our list and we'll take a look when it makes sense to.

As far as the mission imports. Just ask in the mods section. We did create this feature so all can build and share the import files so perhaps somebody already has a file with what your need or may be willing to work on it.

These are good times guys. You have developer than can get things done and are willing too. You have a good community that is looking to help each other.

Mike



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RE: Where are the big GIUK and Atlantic battlesets? - 1/6/2014 9:55:23 PM   
Dimitris


Posts: 12431
Joined: 7/31/2005
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bigfish

GIUK and Atlantic battlesets are may favorite too. So a few days after release of CMANO i started to recreate my TOP 1 "Cutting the Nose" from original Harpoon GUIK Battleset.

But i stoped working on this, because there are too many bugs in CMANO.

Also the Editor is month away from being a good tool creating scenarios:
- The presets of Installations are usless:
___* Add three airfields and assaign those targtes to events/actions/... - which runway belongs to which airfield?
___* It is neceesary to rename every buidling so you can identify it and assaign ist to events/actions/... - this is awesome
- There are still not enough bases in the presets, so you have to create your own - awesome again
- There are no multiply functions - so you have to do a click orgie to setup events/actions - awesome again
- If you add weapons to ammo stores the game slows down horrifying - awesome again
- If you add planes to an base you have to look which weapons are necesary in the ammo stores
___* It would be much better if the ammo stores filled up automatically with correct weapons for all hosted planes
- Build up surface groups need s too much research because there are no information about available ship quantity and there names
___* You have to name every ship by your own, it would be much easier to select this from an database list...


So creating a CMANO scenario is like inventing a wheel! But i don't want to invent a wheel - i know about wheels - i want to use wheels !!!

So i decided to give CMANO some months for ongoing development before i start again with creating scenarios...


And you have not mentioned these gripes/requests until now in public because.....?

< Message edited by Sunburn -- 1/6/2014 10:58:52 PM >


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RE: Where are the big GIUK and Atlantic battlesets? - 1/7/2014 5:00:43 AM   
hoover


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..loading (exported) airbases together with their aircraft would be great. Until now, this works just for aircraft on ships.
Better would be, if one could load selected airbases together with their aircrafts and with their magazins at once.

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RE: Where are the big GIUK and Atlantic battlesets? - 1/7/2014 5:16:06 AM   
navwarcol

 

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Unlike carrier air wings which have generally had a TO&E, even if actual airframes may vary a bit.. land airbases would have that changed sometimes with several iterations for each base. I prefer the way it is now, and adding a/c the designer actually WANTS to be present, rather than an automatic addition of the entire number of airframes that would be possible(this would be the only way to do it without drawing complaints). If I want an airbase for a small ASW scenario, and only want to use its fixed wing ASW a/c, I do not want to go through it, subtracting the dozens of other aircraft it could possibly have been holding...
**** nor do I want to sort through a pre-populated ammo dump to get rid of weapons for a/c I do not intend to use anyway.

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RE: Where are the big GIUK and Atlantic battlesets? - 1/7/2014 6:49:56 AM   
brassem


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Agreed navwarcol. The tools are there to make whatever Order Of Battle for your scenario you would like. Sure the bigger scenarios take more work. But I've found it is far easier if you build them up to your OOB requirements, not to a template where you are deleting down to your OOB. (And still probably have to add units as well.)


< Message edited by brassem -- 1/7/2014 8:31:17 AM >


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RE: Where are the big GIUK and Atlantic battlesets? - 1/7/2014 7:50:11 AM   
hoover


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quote:

ORIGINAL: navwarcol

Unlike carrier air wings which have generally had a TO&E, even if actual airframes may vary a bit.. land airbases would have that changed sometimes with several iterations for each base. I prefer the way it is now, and adding a/c the designer actually WANTS to be present, rather than an automatic addition of the entire number of airframes that would be possible(this would be the only way to do it without drawing complaints). If I want an airbase for a small ASW scenario, and only want to use its fixed wing ASW a/c, I do not want to go through it, subtracting the dozens of other aircraft it could possibly have been holding...
**** nor do I want to sort through a pre-populated ammo dump to get rid of weapons for a/c I do not intend to use anyway.


Hi navwarcol,
hi brassem

I think, I have expressed myself in an mistakable way. I didn't request an automatically prepopulated airbase. What I would like to have is, that I should have the option to save an airbase (I manually had populated with aircrafts and ammo) as a whole and load it, next time I need it, as a whole. For example if the default airbase (the unpopulated one) has the name Anderson_2013.inst I could my personally configured airbase save with the name Andersen_2013_prep.inst.

Annotation:
Save an prepopulated airbase today (Build <= 483) and take a look into the .inst file. You will see, that the aircraft are already saved in this file. But you cannot reimport them into an scenario because the import routine ignores the aicraft already stored within the .inst file.

By
Hoover

(in reply to navwarcol)
Post #: 26
RE: Where are the big GIUK and Atlantic battlesets? - 1/7/2014 12:36:51 PM   
Have

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mikmyk
These are good times guys. You have developer than can get things done and are willing too. You have a good community that is looking to help each other.



Have you logged the problem of the magazine functionality where adding new weapons to magazines gets more slower the more weapons there are in the magazines?
Basically it is so broken that in any larger scenarios with multiple large airbases it is not feasible to add enough weapons into magazines for multiple aircraft types. I keep using the "unlimited weapons" option for this reason because the processing delay of each new addition is several seconds. When the magazine is empty or almost empty the addition is practically instantaneous.

To me it looks like some kind of UI problem because you see the magazine dialog scrollbar fluctuating in a very weird way when adding weapons.

(in reply to mikmykWS)
Post #: 27
RE: Where are the big GIUK and Atlantic battlesets? - 1/7/2014 12:39:48 PM   
Dimitris


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Yes, this is a UI issue (not sim-engine problem) and we're looking into it.

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Post #: 28
RE: Where are the big GIUK and Atlantic battlesets? - 1/7/2014 1:13:28 PM   
Bigfish

 

Posts: 90
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From: Frankfurt, Germany
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quote:

And you have not mentioned these gripes/requests until now in public because.....?


Most of the issues in the game are discussed in other threads - so i think it is not helpful to write it twice.

Also like i wrote, i decided to wait for a while. How i can see most of the issues are known to the developers - so it is not necessary to write it twice. Because this issues are the reason that "I'm" decided to wait some months, others decided to go on with work. So it is mostly not a general problem rather than an individual one for me...

And don't missunderstand me: CMANO is a great work, and much better than Harpoon - But my personal demands are higher than that what CMANO brings to me at this time.

(in reply to Dimitris)
Post #: 29
RE: Where are the big GIUK and Atlantic battlesets? - 1/7/2014 8:55:17 PM   
mikmykWS

 

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quote:

CMANO is a great work, and much better than Harpoon - But my personal demands are higher than that what CMANO brings to me at this time.


Glad you like the game and we'll continue to work to make the editor better.

Thanks!

Mike

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