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Can you lose as the allies\ - 12/27/2013 6:47:38 AM   
jakla1027

 

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So I started the 1943 GC as the allies & started out doing rather well. I got industry damage to 13, terror level to 10, & Air Sup. to 2, by early to Mid Oct.

Now its late Nov. 43 & I'm starting to lose ground due to weather. Industry damage has fallen down to 7, terror is at 10 & Air Sup. 2.

So if I let any of the 3 levels get to low will I lose the campaign? I'm just wondering if I can sneak through winter 43 doing small day light raids & night terror bombing & then start more effective missions with better weather in early 44?

anyone know how low the objectives or levels can get before you lose the game?
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RE: Can you lose as the allies\ - 12/27/2013 6:59:14 AM   
Misconduct


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It takes a while to get things going, as the allies you have to pound your way into late 1944 to really see some numbers. I believe I am October 1943 and sitting on 2/10/10, I was up to 2/12/10 but due to terrible weather my campaign slowed down on me, quite a few missed runs etc.
I haven't played the allies in a long time, but I think if the objective of 85 isn't met by May 1945 then its probably lost? (can't remember).


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RE: Can you lose as the allies\ - 12/27/2013 7:09:59 AM   
jakla1027

 

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From: Idaho
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Thanks Misconduct,

Ya I just found the manual and it gives a formula,

The game checks every 31 turns and if your points are lower than the months played x2 you lose.

i.e. 10 months or 310 turns...so at this time if you have less than 20 points, you lose.

that's the example given in the manual.

so I should be ok if I keep up a good effort, weather permitting.

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RE: Can you lose as the allies\ - 12/27/2013 7:12:38 AM   
jakla1027

 

Posts: 181
Joined: 7/7/2010
From: Idaho
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I think I might have to put RAF 617 Squadron to work over the winter, they do rather well at hitting individual targets & knocking them out.

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RE: Can you lose as the allies\ - 12/27/2013 7:16:44 AM   
Misconduct


Posts: 1864
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From: Cape Canaveral, Florida
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jakla1027

I think I might have to put RAF 617 Squadron to work over the winter, they do rather well at hitting individual targets & knocking them out.


I recently got brazen and sent a few decoys north to hit the Uboat pen north around bremen, I spent 600 night bombers to rank sack 8 industries in southern germany and walked out with 6 heavily damaged and 2 lightly damaged.

So far my night time bombing is improving nicely, Day light bombing I am pretty much trying to get the luftwaffe in the air at this point, Most of my targets are around cologne but this is almost the max my escorts can handle and I hate to give up B17s for a few pesky 109s, instead I've been baiting them by hitting airfields with FLAK covering it just to get the luftwaffe up and shut down some of these AAA fields.

Right now i'm pretty much stumped other then wait for 51 Bravos and just keep trying to swat the luftwaffe.

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RE: Can you lose as the allies\ - 12/27/2013 7:24:28 AM   
jakla1027

 

Posts: 181
Joined: 7/7/2010
From: Idaho
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Misconduct


quote:

ORIGINAL: jakla1027

I think I might have to put RAF 617 Squadron to work over the winter, they do rather well at hitting individual targets & knocking them out.


I recently got brazen and sent a few decoys north to hit the Uboat pen north around bremen, I spent 600 night bombers to rank sack 8 industries in southern germany and walked out with 6 heavily damaged and 2 lightly damaged.

So far my night time bombing is improving nicely, Day light bombing I am pretty much trying to get the luftwaffe in the air at this point, Most of my targets are around cologne but this is almost the max my escorts can handle and I hate to give up B17s for a few pesky 109s, instead I've been baiting them by hitting airfields with FLAK covering it just to get the luftwaffe up and shut down some of these AAA fields.

Right now i'm pretty much stumped other then wait for 51 Bravos and just keep trying to swat the luftwaffe.



Late Nov. for me the 51b's are just entering service, also the P-47D-15's I get the Luft up and am starting to shoot down 80 plus a raid....but I have holes in my fighter escort, I'm losing 50-90 heavies in return...need to work on my fighter escort coverage!!!!!


< Message edited by jakla1027 -- 12/27/2013 8:24:39 AM >

(in reply to Misconduct)
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RE: Can you lose as the allies\ - 12/27/2013 7:43:39 AM   
Misconduct


Posts: 1864
Joined: 2/18/2009
From: Cape Canaveral, Florida
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jakla1027

quote:

ORIGINAL: Misconduct


quote:

ORIGINAL: jakla1027

I think I might have to put RAF 617 Squadron to work over the winter, they do rather well at hitting individual targets & knocking them out.


I recently got brazen and sent a few decoys north to hit the Uboat pen north around bremen, I spent 600 night bombers to rank sack 8 industries in southern germany and walked out with 6 heavily damaged and 2 lightly damaged.

So far my night time bombing is improving nicely, Day light bombing I am pretty much trying to get the luftwaffe in the air at this point, Most of my targets are around cologne but this is almost the max my escorts can handle and I hate to give up B17s for a few pesky 109s, instead I've been baiting them by hitting airfields with FLAK covering it just to get the luftwaffe up and shut down some of these AAA fields.

Right now i'm pretty much stumped other then wait for 51 Bravos and just keep trying to swat the luftwaffe.



Late Nov. for me the 51b's are just entering service, also the P-47D-15's I get the Luft up and am starting to shoot down 80 plus a raid....but I have holes in my fighter escort, I'm losing 50-90 heavies in return...need to work on my fighter escort coverage!!!!!



Ouch that is some huge numbers to lose, I haven't even lost 150 B-17s all together so far. You have to be able to escort to and from the target, I can see 20% losses but I won't go above 25% unless its critical.


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RE: Can you lose as the allies\ - 12/27/2013 7:47:00 AM   
jakla1027

 

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From: Idaho
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Wow 150 total so far!!! I have much to learn ol wise one how are you running your fighter escort & what alt. you bombing from?

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RE: Can you lose as the allies\ - 12/27/2013 2:11:56 PM   
Misconduct


Posts: 1864
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From: Cape Canaveral, Florida
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jakla1027

Wow 150 total so far!!! I have much to learn ol wise one how are you running your fighter escort & what alt. you bombing from?



I am stacking mine, If you have P-38s or P-51's you can have one or two already with the bombers, make one close escort, and another escort high escort, put him at 3,000ft above the bombers. Now you have to pay attention to time to target, for example I am running raids right now with no more then 30 minutes from take off to time over target, this allows me to maximize my D-11 thunderbolt escorts I think right outside cologne are some railyards that are around 30 minutes so let me break down how I would do the escorting.

Take off bombers 7:00am - time over target 7:30
First escort takes off (something long range P-38 for example is what I have) Close escort take off time 7:10
Second escort takes off 7:15 high escort 2,000 feet above
third escort takes off 7:20 high escort 4,000 feet above
forth takes off 7:25 close escort
5th escort 7:35 high escort 3,000

I use 38s as an example because they can stay with the bombers a long duration, 47s have to turn back - you can find this info out in your weapons database, yuo will see something like escort radius.

In my situation I am raiding around cologne, way to far for 47s, so what I've been doing is having 2 squadrons of P-47s escort as far as they can go, followed by P-38s staggered escort (2-4,000 feet above) then 2 squadrons of P-47s to link up with the bombers on return (close or high escort).

Tinker with it to find your best setup.

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Post #: 9
RE: Can you lose as the allies\ - 12/27/2013 11:22:11 PM   
Misconduct


Posts: 1864
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From: Cape Canaveral, Florida
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Here's a screenshot or two of my setup so far the first is the planes I've managed to shoot down, so far i've gotten way better with escorting - the large losses to the P38 and Spitfires were from attacking airfields in the morning, I usually use typhoons but they've had low moral lately and I'm giving most of them a rest


Here's a map of europe so far, I am focusing more on southern france and the western area where fresh 109 and 190 units just popped up, today I managed 30 109s shot down in this area alone, 20 in Italy!


Here's italy


I'm focusing on the two ground units only so i can maximize putting them away, so far after a week of non-stop bombing I am really doing no good, I am glad I took Corsica I want to fly 38s out of there so I can control northern italy from at least 5 units of the luftwaffe - this would secure the air for me, I only wish I could then move units back to england but I cant.


The only real thing I need to work on, Is getting my night bombing to work well, so far I can avoid 80% of the night fighters, but I seem to always miss the target or end up with less then 20% damage with hundreds of bombers? I tried flying from 2-10,000ft. I guess its trial and error, It seems 3100 feet does work sometimes.

< Message edited by Misconduct -- 12/28/2013 12:23:15 AM >


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RE: Can you lose as the allies\ - 12/30/2013 9:12:14 PM   
TaggedYa

 

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Joined: 10/9/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Misconduct

I am stacking mine, If you have P-38s or P-51's you can have one or two already with the bombers, make one close escort, and another escort high escort, put him at 3,000ft above the bombers. Now you have to pay attention to time to target, for example I am running raids right now with no more then 30 minutes from take off to time over target, this allows me to maximize my D-11 thunderbolt escorts I think right outside cologne are some railyards that are around 30 minutes so let me break down how I would do the escorting.


I like this but your close escort should not join until the area where the first bad guys are coming in. In the early game that tends to mean a 15 to 18 minuite delay for P47D-6s.
quote:


Take off bombers 7:00am - time over target 7:30


Something is very wrong here. B17F time to Cologne is about an hour forty five. G models 1:55. Are you adding escorts in the raid planner or on the raid modification screen? The raid planner is notorious for screwing up times. You might want to assign a target with the raid planner (click the bomb mission button) but once the lead unit is set then click done and open the mission review list and select the mission and then modify it to add your extra bombers and escorts. Else the times are all fouled up. You also will need to adjust start time on the mod screen if TOT is at all important.

quote:


First escort takes off (something long range P-38 for example is what I have) Close escort take off time 7:10
Second escort takes off 7:15 high escort 2,000 feet above
third escort takes off 7:20 high escort 4,000 feet above
forth takes off 7:25 close escort
5th escort 7:35 high escort 3,000

I use 38s as an example because they can stay with the bombers a long duration, 47s have to turn back - you can find this info out in your weapons database, yuo will see something like escort radius.

In my situation I am raiding around cologne, way to far for 47s, so what I've been doing is having 2 squadrons of P-47s escort as far as they can go, followed by P-38s staggered escort (2-4,000 feet above) then 2 squadrons of P-47s to link up with the bombers on return (close or high escort).

Tinker with it to find your best setup.

Your first close escort group should always be P47s because they are very durable. They are just shielding (read taking bullets for) the bombers. Until I have a surfeit of long range planes I still use the P47s for the first leg in and the last leg out. It is also a good idea to try to arrange things so the biggest fight is inside p47 range.


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RE: Can you lose as the allies\ - 12/30/2013 9:50:30 PM   
TaggedYa

 

Posts: 217
Joined: 10/9/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Misconduct


The only real thing I need to work on, Is getting my night bombing to work well, so far I can avoid 80% of the night fighters, but I seem to always miss the target or end up with less then 20% damage with hundreds of bombers? I tried flying from 2-10,000ft. I guess its trial and error, It seems 3100 feet does work sometimes.


Try 13K to 17K. Less flak damage and its area bombing regardless of altitude.

Night bombers do poorly against point (industry) targets. Also, the walk back principle causes all squadrons but the first to bomb short of the target.

617 sqd is an exception that is set into the game code. They get 12000 lb bombs when they attack industry and have very high skill numbers.

If you want to hit industry with night bombers: Use high skill, high moral units with nav radar. Make sure that you have light at the target. Bomb before moon set or after moon rise on nights with higher light (say 10 or more). This will get your bombers hurt but will hit targets. It is a waste to send lots of bombers at a target as if the first one hits all the rest will miss. The only time you get a hit with the second or later units is if the first went long and the walk back walks over the target.

If an industry you want to knock out is in an urban area you can just set the whole area on fire. Industries do burn.

I tend to lead with a top of the line unit and send 1 or 2 extra squadrons. You still will not do "well" so this is for critical targets that are otherwise out of range. All targets that are within sight (40 miles or so) need to be hit in the same minute or the fires from one will attract the bombers from other targets.

It is much better to try for RR Yards (they are area targets) that are near the industries you want to hurt. You knock out industry and get terror from the misses.

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RE: Can you lose as the allies\ - 1/6/2014 11:29:55 PM   
Misconduct


Posts: 1864
Joined: 2/18/2009
From: Cape Canaveral, Florida
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TaggedYa


quote:

ORIGINAL: Misconduct

I am stacking mine, If you have P-38s or P-51's you can have one or two already with the bombers, make one close escort, and another escort high escort, put him at 3,000ft above the bombers. Now you have to pay attention to time to target, for example I am running raids right now with no more then 30 minutes from take off to time over target, this allows me to maximize my D-11 thunderbolt escorts I think right outside cologne are some railyards that are around 30 minutes so let me break down how I would do the escorting.


I like this but your close escort should not join until the area where the first bad guys are coming in. In the early game that tends to mean a 15 to 18 minuite delay for P47D-6s.
quote:


Take off bombers 7:00am - time over target 7:30


Something is very wrong here. B17F time to Cologne is about an hour forty five. G models 1:55. Are you adding escorts in the raid planner or on the raid modification screen? The raid planner is notorious for screwing up times. You might want to assign a target with the raid planner (click the bomb mission button) but once the lead unit is set then click done and open the mission review list and select the mission and then modify it to add your extra bombers and escorts. Else the times are all fouled up. You also will need to adjust start time on the mod screen if TOT is at all important.

quote:


First escort takes off (something long range P-38 for example is what I have) Close escort take off time 7:10
Second escort takes off 7:15 high escort 2,000 feet above
third escort takes off 7:20 high escort 4,000 feet above
forth takes off 7:25 close escort
5th escort 7:35 high escort 3,000

I use 38s as an example because they can stay with the bombers a long duration, 47s have to turn back - you can find this info out in your weapons database, yuo will see something like escort radius.

In my situation I am raiding around cologne, way to far for 47s, so what I've been doing is having 2 squadrons of P-47s escort as far as they can go, followed by P-38s staggered escort (2-4,000 feet above) then 2 squadrons of P-47s to link up with the bombers on return (close or high escort).

Tinker with it to find your best setup.

Your first close escort group should always be P47s because they are very durable. They are just shielding (read taking bullets for) the bombers. Until I have a surfeit of long range planes I still use the P47s for the first leg in and the last leg out. It is also a good idea to try to arrange things so the biggest fight is inside p47 range.


quote:

Something is very wrong here. B17F time to Cologne is about an hour forty five. G models 1:55. Are you adding escorts in the raid planner or on the raid modification screen? The raid planner is notorious for screwing up times. You might want to assign a target with the raid planner (click the bomb mission button) but once the lead unit is set then click done and open the mission review list and select the mission and then modify it to add your extra bombers and escorts. Else the times are all fouled up. You also will need to adjust start time on the mod screen if TOT is at all important.


Time over Target has been a huge problem for me, the Raid planner allows me to have escorts, if I use the Mission review list, sometimes escorts will NOT show up, although it gives me the correct time over target. I pretty much have learned the time distance right now (27 minutes for P-47s on escort to Cologne) before fighters show up.

I pretty much just write down the time and reload the save game, when the mission review does work its nice, however I got tired of not having escorts (buffs just fly solo and I lost 30+ B17s). I know in some cases escorts won't link up, but this seems to be more common with the mission review, rather then the raid planner. One of those issues that never got fixed.

As for night bombing, so far I've learned what you told, if you fire bomb an area from 10,000 ft, you generally can destroy factories! LOL interesting I don't mind losing 30 or so night bombers if I can afford shutting down a few factories like this, so far I've ignored Urban areas because I've been losing to many bombers.


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(in reply to TaggedYa)
Post #: 13
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