Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

[FIXED DB v440] speed of MGM-140

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Command: Modern Operations series >> [FIXED DB v440] speed of MGM-140 Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
[FIXED DB v440] speed of MGM-140 - 12/12/2013 6:53:26 AM   
mrfeizhu


Posts: 131
Joined: 10/13/2013
Status: offline
The speed of the MGM-140 Army Tactical Missile only fly's at subsonic speeds. It should fly faster, In the data base its speed is listed as 18,500 feet a second that will give make the missile fly at over 12,000 mph. I am not breaking them or fussing over minutia but in the game ( and life) its nice to be able to take out targets very fast with a high success rate.

< Message edited by emsoy -- 7/2/2015 7:13:53 PM >


_____________________________

Old man sort of living in China for the last 10 years
Post #: 1
RE: speed of MGM-140 - 12/12/2013 7:47:00 AM   
mrfeizhu


Posts: 131
Joined: 10/13/2013
Status: offline
I should learn how to read, the speed listed is 18,500 a minute for the climb rate (big difference) , the speed is still to slow for that type of missile, but i searched and could not find the speed on the web. But the booster of the missile was used to propel the X-51 WaveRider to mach 4.5 before its own engine cut in. The V-2 had a speend of 3,500 MPH.

_____________________________

Old man sort of living in China for the last 10 years

(in reply to mrfeizhu)
Post #: 2
RE: speed of MGM-140 - 12/12/2013 1:07:22 PM   
Primarchx


Posts: 3102
Joined: 1/20/2013
Status: offline
MLRS guided weapons go 450kts, which seems low.

(in reply to mrfeizhu)
Post #: 3
RE: speed of MGM-140 - 12/12/2013 1:13:28 PM   
Dimitris

 

Posts: 13231
Joined: 7/31/2005
Status: offline
So what is the average ground-track speed of the MGM-140 ? Sources, anyone?

_____________________________


(in reply to Primarchx)
Post #: 4
RE: speed of MGM-140 - 12/12/2013 6:45:24 PM   
navwarcol

 

Posts: 637
Joined: 12/2/2009
Status: offline
Pg 62 of this (very excellent) work would indicate by the math a speed of 2000kts
http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA451930

(in reply to Dimitris)
Post #: 5
RE: speed of MGM-140 - 12/12/2013 7:55:32 PM   
ComDev

 

Posts: 5735
Joined: 5/12/2006
Status: offline
Thanks guys, will look into this

_____________________________



Developer "Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations" project!

(in reply to navwarcol)
Post #: 6
RE: speed of MGM-140 - 12/13/2013 8:25:52 PM   
bsq


Posts: 517
Joined: 1/5/2007
Status: offline
Solid fuel modern rocket - quasi-ballistic missile class of weapon?

Even 2000kts is too slow - the missile has an apogee at max range shot of 50 km. 5000 - 6000 kts is nearer the mark...

Try looking at how you modelled the 9K720 and you will likely be nearer the mark, because it is crazy that an SA-3 can shoot one of these down in the terminal phase (2 SAM's fired, 2nd one hit and destroyed my ATACMs - not happy with that modelling).

I think you need to look at the MLRS all round, because M30's with a speed of 450 kts, are not going to be much use in the Counter Fire role. The idea is that the rockets take out the OpFor battery BEFORE it can fire many more rounds.

(in reply to ComDev)
Post #: 7
RE: speed of MGM-140 - 12/13/2013 9:13:31 PM   
navwarcol

 

Posts: 637
Joined: 12/2/2009
Status: offline
I think the issue there, bsq, may be that perhaps SAMs should only be able to fire at this type of weapon, (or at JDAM from another thread) if they are actually targeting the SAM launcher. The window of engagement opportunity would seem to be too small to hit this type of target as a "crossing target".

(in reply to bsq)
Post #: 8
RE: speed of MGM-140 - 12/13/2013 9:15:20 PM   
bsq


Posts: 517
Joined: 1/5/2007
Status: offline
1st and 2nd gen SAMs should have no capability against ballistic targets at all.

(in reply to navwarcol)
Post #: 9
RE: speed of MGM-140 - 12/13/2013 9:21:48 PM   
navwarcol

 

Posts: 637
Joined: 12/2/2009
Status: offline
+1... but I am not really sure it can be broken down in that manner in the game.

(in reply to bsq)
Post #: 10
RE: speed of MGM-140 - 12/13/2013 9:26:27 PM   
bsq


Posts: 517
Joined: 1/5/2007
Status: offline
Put them outside of the speed bracket of these systems. If ATACMS flew at high Mach, as I think it should, then SA-2 through 8 wouldn't be in with a chance because they are modelled to intercept slower targets

(in reply to navwarcol)
Post #: 11
RE: speed of MGM-140 - 12/14/2013 3:55:40 PM   
Apocal

 

Posts: 85
Joined: 11/14/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bsq
I think you need to look at the MLRS all round, because M30's with a speed of 450 kts, are not going to be much use in the Counter Fire role. The idea is that the rockets take out the OpFor battery BEFORE it can fire many more rounds.


Max time of flight on an M30 rocket is something only slight north of a minute. The idea was that a full battalion shoot of MLRS - 27 launchers, each with 12 rockets - would blanket such a large area the firing battery would be caught somewhere in the impact area, regardless of if they stayed or tried to displace.

(in reply to bsq)
Post #: 12
RE: speed of MGM-140 - 12/14/2013 4:16:36 PM   
bsq


Posts: 517
Joined: 1/5/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apocal


quote:

ORIGINAL: bsq
I think you need to look at the MLRS all round, because M30's with a speed of 450 kts, are not going to be much use in the Counter Fire role. The idea is that the rockets take out the OpFor battery BEFORE it can fire many more rounds.


Max time of flight on an M30 rocket is something only slight north of a minute. The idea was that a full battalion shoot of MLRS - 27 launchers, each with 12 rockets - would blanket such a large area the firing battery would be caught somewhere in the impact area, regardless of if they stayed or tried to displace.



At 6.67 nm/min, it would take almost 5 mins to max range... Each MLRS can take out 1 square km - you could run out of the grid square in the time the M30 is modelled here

(in reply to Apocal)
Post #: 13
RE: speed of MGM-140 - 12/14/2013 6:26:08 PM   
ComDev

 

Posts: 5735
Joined: 5/12/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bsq

Solid fuel modern rocket - quasi-ballistic missile class of weapon?

Even 2000kts is too slow - the missile has an apogee at max range shot of 50 km. 5000 - 6000 kts is nearer the mark...


Thanks for your input guys.

But honestly think 5000-6000kt is too much. The ATACMs is a 1600kg weapon, actually not too far from the RIM-8 Talos and even the SA-10 series. Doubt you could make the Talso go 5000-6000kt, as there simply is not enough energy in the fuel to make it go that fast?

_____________________________



Developer "Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations" project!

(in reply to bsq)
Post #: 14
RE: speed of MGM-140 - 12/15/2013 7:42:26 PM   
bsq


Posts: 517
Joined: 1/5/2007
Status: offline
I did the maths based on the paper that was referred to, so if that is looking at 100nm and yields a ground speed of 1998 kts, the the average air speed (including that up to apogee, then the descent to impact) is almost 2400kts - and thats the average. The speed as it descends will be increasing so by the time it reaches the actual altitude at which SAM's can track and try to intercept it if capable, it should be travelling in excess of 3000kts.

Of course, if the simulation models ground speed, rather than the actual speed, then stopping SAMs from intercepting it may be an issue in the game and something that would not happen IRL.


(in reply to ComDev)
Post #: 15
RE: speed of MGM-140 - 12/16/2013 10:16:32 AM   
mrfeizhu


Posts: 131
Joined: 10/13/2013
Status: offline
3000 or even 2000 is better than a subsonic speed.

_____________________________

Old man sort of living in China for the last 10 years

(in reply to bsq)
Post #: 16
RE: speed of MGM-140 - 12/16/2013 2:51:22 PM   
navwarcol

 

Posts: 637
Joined: 12/2/2009
Status: offline
Good point bsq!! I did not include that in my hasty calculation above, but that should be about right.
In reality it should be incredibly difficult to get a hit on these, for a SAM system, due to so many things, their ballistic path, their cross section, etc.
quote:

ORIGINAL: bsq

I did the maths based on the paper that was referred to, so if that is looking at 100nm and yields a ground speed of 1998 kts, the the average air speed (including that up to apogee, then the descent to impact) is almost 2400kts - and thats the average. The speed as it descends will be increasing so by the time it reaches the actual altitude at which SAM's can track and try to intercept it if capable, it should be travelling in excess of 3000kts.

Of course, if the simulation models ground speed, rather than the actual speed, then stopping SAMs from intercepting it may be an issue in the game and something that would not happen IRL.




(in reply to bsq)
Post #: 17
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Command: Modern Operations series >> [FIXED DB v440] speed of MGM-140 Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.328