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Height Finding & Fire Control Radars?

 
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Height Finding & Fire Control Radars? - 12/2/2013 3:59:20 AM   
apd1004


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Are height finding & fire control radars not simulated in the radar model?

I did some testing with the SA-5b GAMMON and discovered that the 5N84/P-14 TALL KING search radar works the way it should being a 2D radar, and just gives bearing and range to a target. The PRV-13 ODD PAIR, which is supposed to work with the TALL KING and provide elevation data, doesn't give altitude to the target at all but it is detectable by RWR. The 5N62 SQUARE PAIR fire control radar serves no purpose at all since you really don't need any of the associated radars with the SA-5 to be active to be able to launch as long as somebody on the friendly side can spot the target. The SA-5 is a semi-active terminal radar homer and you shouldn't be able to launch with none of the radars active.

Cheers

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RE: Height Finding & Fire Control Radars? - 12/2/2013 8:46:41 PM   
bsq


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Maybe picked a bad example. SA-5 is homing all the way, sure it will fly a lead angle course or some other proportional navigational track to optimise intercept, but it needs to do so with the seeker pointing at the target all the time.

Square Pair provides the CWI for the Gammon to home to and, if it loses lock, it provides signals via the lost lock antenna to allow the seeker to re-acquire. You do not need the other two radars at all, it just make things quicker if you have external queuing of the target. So if, in your example, you saw Square Pair active then it is WAD, if Square Pair was not active at any point, then it's broke.

< Message edited by bsq -- 12/2/2013 9:47:04 PM >

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RE: Height Finding & Fire Control Radars? - 12/3/2013 2:22:26 AM   
apd1004


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That's exactly my point and hence the reason for my question. None of that which you describe is how the SA-5 worked in my test. I just picked the SA-5 at random because it has a 2D search radar coupled with a separate height finding radar. I turned off all three of the inherent radars for the SA-5, placed a ground unit in the path of the incoming aircraft, and launched the SA-5 missile based on a Mk1 Eyeball fix on the target from a regular ground unit. The reason for my test in the first place, however, was to see if the HF radar actually provided the altitude of the target and it did not.

Isn't the SA-5 is a SARH/TARH, not an all-the-way homer, right? For most launches they would prefer to use an IADS radar at maximum range, with the active seeker in the missile taking over at terminal.

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RE: Height Finding & Fire Control Radars? - 12/3/2013 6:31:01 AM   
bsq


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All the way - LBL or within seconds thereafter

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RE: Height Finding & Fire Control Radars? - 12/4/2013 1:13:31 AM   
apd1004


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From the scenario design point of view is the way I'm looking at this. If the SA-5 is going to be on the AI side, then it would theoretically be easy enough to replicate by triggered event the electronic signatures of the EW & HF radars up to the point where the illuminating radar would come on to begin the tracking process and then missile launch once the target was within engagement range. The player would detect the Tall King and Odd Pair until he closed distance enough that the SAM battery would begin the engagement and turn on the Square Pair to illuminate. That would provide the player with some immersion and be interesting to play.

My problem lies not with the SA-5 being on the AI side but rather on the player side. If I'm the SA-5 player, I should have to go through the target acquisition and illumination process using the 2D search and HF radars and finally the fire control radar just like the real SA-5 operators would, but in CMANO the SA-5 doesn't work anything at all like it should. Like I discovered in my tests, I can put a T-72 platoon out there and when they get a Mk1 eyeball visual on a target, I can launch the SA-5 without even firing up any of the radars. Not very interesting to play a scenario unrealistically like that.

Cheers

< Message edited by apd1004 -- 12/4/2013 2:14:22 AM >


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RE: Height Finding & Fire Control Radars? - 12/4/2013 10:17:33 AM   
smudge56

 

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I tried to keep up but my head hurts

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RE: Height Finding & Fire Control Radars? - 12/4/2013 10:57:08 AM   
thewood1

 

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At some point a game has to have abstractions. I don't think modeling the exact engagement process for every SAM and variant is a good use of development time for a game that simulates battle at the theater-level. It's not a SAM simulator, but a sea/air battle simulator. I have the same issue with getting wound up about loadouts on aircraft. Get it close and move on.

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