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F-105 loadouts - 11/27/2013 2:26:17 PM   
MR_BURNS2


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Most of the conventional F-105 loadouts are impossible, i started this thread to collect data on F-105 loadouts before sirius makes DB changes. If you have any info about F-105 loadouts actually used operationally please share here.





This image already tells a lot, however the second AGM-45A entry is wrong, they probably meant AIM-9B.

BLU-1 Napalm bombs were carried 1 each outboard pylon and 2 centerline.

Bomb Bay held a 350 US gal tank when not armed with internal nukes.

Can someone please start an open google docs thingy arranged like the chart in the picture above?

The burns doesnt know how to do this



< Message edited by MR_BURNS2 -- 11/27/2013 3:33:34 PM >


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RE: F-105 loadouts - 11/27/2013 3:13:42 PM   
.Sirius


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Thanks for this got some stuff Ive found too so will post later on today



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RE: F-105 loadouts - 11/27/2013 5:20:18 PM   
ComDev

 

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These are the Max loadouts, which is great. But can we get a list of the 'typical' loadouts as well?

In Command we're simulating combat range and (very soon) payload weight/drag effects.

So would be fantastic if you could also research typical medium/light loadouts as well. For instance, the A-7 Corsair in the database has several loadouts with different bombloads to give the player a few range/payload options, e.g.:

Mk82 LDGP (6x bombs): 610nm
Mk82 LDGP (12x bombs): 485nm
Mk82 LDGP (18x bombs): 410nm

What strike radius / profile would the F-105 have with the different loadouts?

Thanks!

< Message edited by emsoy -- 11/27/2013 6:21:23 PM >


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RE: F-105 loadouts - 11/27/2013 6:39:06 PM   
mikmykWS

 

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http://www.burrusspta.org/105_externalstoreloading.pdf

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RE: F-105 loadouts - 11/27/2013 6:41:18 PM   
navwarcol

 

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This brings up a question/comment guys. I found a workaround that I hesitate to mention just because if it was unintentional I don't want it taken away
For the most part we are unable to add loadouts to aircraft in the scenario editor. Because of this, I am thinking that is WAD. However, if we create a plane as a unit in the air, we can edit mounts and loadouts just as with any other unit, and effectively create some REALLY cool planes

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RE: F-105 loadouts - 11/27/2013 6:52:10 PM   
mikmykWS

 

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Yes although I think the issue is you can't save the edits in the delta file.

Mike

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RE: F-105 loadouts - 11/27/2013 7:51:04 PM   
.Sirius


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Hi Mike thanks was gonna post that one heh

quote:

ORIGINAL: mikmyk

http://www.burrusspta.org/105_externalstoreloading.pdf



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RE: F-105 loadouts - 11/27/2013 7:55:04 PM   
mikmykWS

 

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See more pictures of the 12 centerline and a tank on each wing than anything.

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RE: F-105 loadouts - 11/27/2013 8:50:48 PM   
Broncepulido

 

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More ideas and data here: http://www.alternatewars.com/SAC/F-105D-31_Thunderchief_SAC_-_June_1970.pdf

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RE: F-105 loadouts - 11/28/2013 4:59:39 AM   
ComDev

 

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Anyone got the guts to take the first stab at creating a table with the loadouts that the F-105s should have?

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RE: F-105 loadouts - 11/28/2013 6:07:57 AM   
MR_BURNS2


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Wow! Great, that would settle hardpoint possibilities.
Typical loadouts should be no problem since there are hundreds of different photos.

As for range, with a typical 6 Mk117 and 2 wingtanks(plus internal tank of course) from Thai bases they needed 1 pre-strike refueling some 45 minutes after takeoff and one post-strike.Typical ingress altitude was up to 15000/18000 feet, at higher altitudes she was hard to control with such a heavy load/drag.
The Thud was built for low level and due to this high drag and weight she was always short on fuel, thats all i learned from pilots stories, finding harder facts might prove difficult but i'll try.
alternatewars.com might be more helpful, see radius chart on page 5.


Following is a list of loadouts as seen on pictures, the most common being on top.

F-105D:

6x Mk117, 2 wingtanks, often with 1 Mk82, Mk117 or Rocketpod on each outer wingstation.
6x Mk82 LDGP or retarded, often with 1 Mk82 or Rocketpod on each outer wingstation.
5x BLU-1/B, 2 wingtanks
2X AGM-12, 1 centerlinetank, ( i also found 1 pic with AGM-12 on outboard stations and wingtanks but think this was experimental/uncommon)
2x Mk118, 1 centerlinetank,
5x Mk83 and 2 wingtanks
2x Mk84, 2xMk82 and centerlinetank

There is also talk about CBU-2 but i cant find pictures.


Early 1966 F-105D shared Iron Hand missions with F-105F carrying AGM-45.
September 1966 the first QRC-160 ECM pods arrived
From December 1966 on they often carried AIM-9, single rail more often then double rail

The latter 3 were used roughly from mid-1966 on, maybe make an earlier version without these and a 1966+ version with them?

F-105F Wild Weasel

First deployed operationally on 22 May 1966, around 1970 all were upgraded to F-105G,
AGM-78 capability since end of 1967, combat debut 10th march 68,

2x AGM-45 and 3 tanks
2x AGM-45, 1 AGM 78, 1 wingtank 1 centerlinetank
2x AGM-45, 2x CBU-24, centerlinetank (short range, maybe only 1 CBU and 1 wingtank?)
2x AGM-45 and 2 Rocket Pods mentioned in a book(maybe 2 on 1 wing and wingtank on other?)

I also have a picture of Mk117´s being loaded on a F with 2 AGM-45 already in place, dont know how many or where.

F-105G ~1969/70 onwards

Same loadouts as F-105F
said to have capability for twin AGM-45 launchers on outboard pylons, but no evidence, also former aircrew states that he never saw any of them while in SEA.

I think its a F or G in this picture, dont know what CBU´s these are:


AGM-45 plus Napalm?



Main Source: F-105 Thunderchief Units of the Vietnam War

Hope that helps.

< Message edited by MR_BURNS2 -- 11/29/2013 7:12:48 AM >


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RE: F-105 loadouts - 11/28/2013 4:33:41 PM   
.Sirius


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Working on it..... please don't laugh at the results there are multiple combinations of what you could hang on the Thud
quote:

ORIGINAL: emsoy

Anyone got the guts to take the first stab at creating a table with the loadouts that the F-105s should have?



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RE: F-105 loadouts - 11/30/2013 5:06:41 AM   
MR_BURNS2


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Moar:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tqdtb4KNZ4M&list=WL329D3ADCE442344C

08:40 F-105D 2 AGM-45, 6 Mk82 and wingtanks
09:36 F-105F 1 AGM-45 and some CBU or iron bomb? plus 1 Jammer
14:00 F-105D 4 Mk117 and wingtanks, may have been during the bomb shortage, or maybe range issues.

You can also see many of the typical 6-Mk117 loadouts and 1 or 2 with 2 Mk118 as mentioned above, some with 1 ECM-Pod and 1 Sidewinder, probably for those who went into RP 5 and 6.

Speaking of ECM, someone posted some data about the QRC-160/AN/ALQ-71 Pod on SImHQ

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3740523/3

Dont know if that is useful for you, you probably have better ECM sources.
I also have some stats about effectiveness of F-105 ECM in a book if you can use it.

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RE: F-105 loadouts - 12/5/2013 5:43:44 PM   
ComDev

 

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Bump!

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RE: F-105 loadouts - 12/5/2013 6:57:28 PM   
El Savior

 

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Here's Google Book about Wild Weasel F-105's armaments in Vietnam:

Google Book

Hope this helps. My Modern Aircraft Armamanet book is missing F-105 loadouts.

Picture from the Wild Weasel loadout from the Google Book:



Additional fuel tanks was carried.

< Message edited by El Savior -- 12/5/2013 8:03:07 PM >


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RE: F-105 loadouts - 12/29/2013 5:12:13 AM   
MR_BURNS2


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Nice job on the loadouts, i have a few more points though if you should ever feel bored enough to look at it again.

Shouldn't all AC without internal bombload carry the internal fueltank?

The 3 Nuke loadout is horribly short-legged, she was built for low-lever penetration, but with that loadout at SL and loiter-speed she can hardly get from the Rhine to Poland and back.
They probably used wingtanks + 1 internal bomb or similar. What about internal bomb and wingbags for the B and internal tank/wingtanks + centerline bomb for the D ?

Mk-84 bombs were, according to wikipedia, first introduced in Vietnam and were possibly never used on F-105B and early D´s. Mk-118 was much older though and more often used.
What about a short range loadout with 2 Mk-118 and a normal one with 1 Mk-118 and 1 Wingbag?

F-105D 1966, B-57 loadout has centerline-tank and wingtanks and centerline-bomb? Replace centerline-tank with internaltank.

F-105D 1966, a few of those have AIM-9D´s, dunno if they actually used those or whether it is a typo.

F-105D 1966, Mk-83 loadout, look at the chart, is's either AIM-9/ECM pod or Mk-83´s on outboard stations. On the picture they had just 5 bombs and wingtanks.

F-105F, the last loadout, not sure what happened there, 2 OUTBD loads too many and no INBD load? You have the same loadout in the first 2 G´s too.

F-105G 1970, AGM-45/AGM-78 loadout, 1 AGM-78 too many. Please add the 2x AGM-45, 1xAGM 78, 1 wingtank 1 centerlinetank loadout to all F and G models, they all used it at some point.

Check the latest F-105G´s properties against the other Thuds, Bombsight - Advanced Computing and Probe Refuelling are missing. And maybe add Wild Weasel in the title as in the other WW´s.



Right, now that i made all these further suggestions AFTER you made all these laborious changes i shall try to avoid the wrath of the Dev´s and escape to the sanctity of my Steamtrain

Chooo Chooo!








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RE: F-105 loadouts - 12/29/2013 12:41:31 PM   
mikmykWS

 

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Logged to look at.

Thanks!

Mike

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RE: F-105 loadouts - 2/21/2014 10:42:14 AM   
ComDev

 

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Any update on this?

Thanks

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RE: F-105 loadouts - 2/21/2014 11:50:20 AM   
.Sirius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: emsoy

Any update on this?

Thanks

All updated and tweeked Rag, you have the latest DB with it all in :)

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RE: F-105 loadouts - 1/12/2015 10:51:14 PM   
Primarchx


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Can we get a Mk117 + DECM-pod loadouts for the '66+ F-105D? Also a Mk-82 + DECM? Thanks!

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RE: F-105 loadouts - 1/15/2015 3:47:49 PM   
.Sirius


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Can do :)
quote:

ORIGINAL: Primarchx

Can we get a Mk117 + DECM-pod loadouts for the '66+ F-105D? Also a Mk-82 + DECM? Thanks!



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RE: F-105 loadouts - 2/15/2015 12:34:28 PM   
MR_BURNS2


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I noticed that many of the F-105 B and D loadouts who could, and would use the internal bomb bay tank don't use them, significantly limiting their already short range, could you please add those tanks?

Basically every jet who didn't carry a nuke internally probably used that tank.


Also, does anyone have information about use of the bomb-bay tank on F and G models? Did they use it or did they need the space for fancy wild-weasel equipment?
Just curious because in our DB they don't have those. Thanks!


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RE: F-105 loadouts - 8/20/2020 1:39:34 AM   
TheOriginalOverlord

 

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Sorry to dig this ancient thread up but google showed this was the only one...


I've started digging into the Weasels and offered up some new/tweaked loadouts below. Biggest changes is removing AIM-9s as they were SAM hunting not MiG hunting.

Also remove the AIM9s from the "mount/stores" section. If you leave them there its a "free" AAM which "should" be on an outer wing plyon.

I'm also digging through the sensors/EW.. I'm finding ECM some "pods" located in this section which means it's a "free" ride for ones that were pylon only carried...this applies more to the D/F models..

I've also done some testing of the onboard sensors vs "pods" and am getting very differnt results...but that will be another post.

Here are my suggestions...

Does anyone have a good source of what sensors were used on which model..and when? I find info on RHAW gear very sparse...

*UPDATE* I've been doing more digging and have talked to people on the ground that the "G" model didn't arrive in Thailand until the last half of '69 so I'll roll the '67 loadout into the 105F models.

F-105G 1967 Wild Weasel III (mod) DO NOT USE

AGM-12C (Strike, Land/Naval) (updated)
1xALQ-71 DECM
1xAGM-45A
2xAGM12C
1x390gl BBT
1x650gl DT

AGM-45A + CBU-29/B [Short Range] (SEAD, ARM, Land/ Naval) (updated)
2xAGM-45A
4xCBU-29/B
4xCBU-29/B
4xCBU-29/B
1x390gl BBT

AGM-45A + CBU-29/B [Long Range] (SEAD, ARM, Land/ Naval) (updated)
2xAGM-45A
4xCBU-29/B
1x390gl BBT
2x450gl DT

AGM-45A + M117 (SEAD, ARM, Land/ Naval) (updated)
2xAGM-45A
6xM117(centerline MER)
1x390gl BBT
2x450gl DT

AGM-45A + LAU-3 (SEAD, ARM, Land/ Naval) (updated)
2xAGM-45A
4xLAU-3(inner wing)
1x390gl BBT
1x650gl DT

AGM-45A [ARM] (SEAD, ARM, Land/ Naval) (updated)
2xAGM-45A
1x390gl BBT
2x450gl DT

AGM-45A [ARM Long Range] (SEAD, ARM, Land/ Naval) (updated)
2xAGM-45A
1x390gl BBT
1x650gl DT
2x450gl DT

AGM-78 + AGM-45A [ARM] (SEAD, ARM, Land/ Naval) (updated)
2xAGM-45A
2xAGM-78A
1x390gl BBT
1x650gl DT

AGM-78 + AGM-45A [ARM Long Range] (SEAD, ARM, Land/ Naval) (new)
2xAGM-45A
1xAGM-78A
1x390gl BBT
1x650gl DT
1x450gl DT

Mk82 Snakeeye (SEAD, Strike, Land/Naval) (updated)
2xAGM-45A
4xMk82 Snakeeye
4xMk82 Snakeeye
1x390gl BBT
1x650gl DT

Mk82 Snakeeye Long Range (SEAD, Strike, Land/Naval) (updated)
2xAGM-45A
6xMk82 Snakeeye
1x390gl BBT
2x450gl DT

-----

F-105G 1970 Wild Weasel III (mod)

(delete sidewinder loadout)

AGM-45A [ARM] (SEAD, ARM, Land/ Naval) (updated)
2xAGM-45A
1x390gl BBT
2x450gl DT

AGM-45A [ARM Long Range] (SEAD, ARM, Land/ Naval) (updated)
2xAGM-45A
1x390gl BBT
1x650gl DT
2x450gl DT

AGM-78B + AGM-45A [ARM] (SEAD, ARM, Land/ Naval) (updated)
2xAGM-45A
2xAGM-78B
1x390gl BBT
1x650gl DT

AGM-78B + AGM-45A [ARM Long Range] (SEAD, ARM, Land/ Naval) (new)
2xAGM-45A
1xAGM-78B
1x390gl BBT
1x650gl DT
1x450gl DT

AGM-45A + CBU-29/B [Short Range] (SEAD, ARM, Land/ Naval) (updated)
2xAGM-45A
4xCBU-29/B
4xCBU-29/B
4xCBU-29/B
1x390gl BBT

AGM-45A + CBU-29/B [Long Range] (SEAD, ARM, Land/ Naval) (updated)
2xAGM-45A
4xCBU-29/B
1x390gl BBT
2x450gl DT

AGM-78B + AGM-45A + CBU-29/B [Short Range ARM] (SEAD, ARM, Land/ Naval) (updated)
2xAGM-45A
1xAGM-78B
4xCBU-29/B
4xCBU-29/B
1x390gl BBT

------


F-105G 1975 (ANG) Wild Weasel III (mod)

AGM-45A [ARM] (SEAD, ARM, Land/ Naval) (updated) (remove sidewinders)
2xAGM-45A
1x390gl BBT
2x450gl DT

I would probably add duplicate loadouts with the AGM-78D as well

------

F-105G 1975-1980

These look ok...just add the 1x390gl bomb baytank to the loadouts.






< Message edited by TheOriginalOverlord -- 9/15/2020 1:23:22 AM >


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