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WIF and shipping to EU, my positive experience

 
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WIF and shipping to EU, my positive experience - 11/15/2013 9:08:07 AM   
boshar

 

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From: the Netherlands
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Just woke up late (10 AM local, have a day off after a late shift) and saw I had a shipment notification. I didn't have time for my morning coffee let alone going to the tracking site because minutes later Fedex was already at my door delivering the package

My package was Opened For Customs but there appear to be no extra costs for this 'service'. The shipping bill mentioning books and a backup DVD with a total worth of $ 40 may have helped . My shipment included the maps (they look great!) everything was opened,looked at and repackaged by customs. Still no customs, taxes or extra handling fees so the shipping bill trick worked for me.

It would have been more expensive for me to get the game at Essen.
Post #: 1
RE: WIF and shipping to EU, my positive experience - 11/15/2013 12:08:45 PM   
DSWargamer

 

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It appears someone has been thinking at their end, I had the same invoice particulars by the looks of things.

_____________________________

I have too many too complicated wargames, and not enough sufficiently interested non wargamer friends.

(in reply to boshar)
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RE: WIF and shipping to EU, my positive experience - 11/15/2013 3:23:08 PM   
GoodGuy

 

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From: Cologne, Germany
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quote:

ORIGINAL: boshar

My package was Opened For Customs but there appear to be no extra costs for this 'service'. The shipping bill mentioning books and a backup DVD with a total worth of $ 40 may have helped . My shipment included the maps (they look great!) everything was opened,looked at and repackaged by customs. Still no customs, taxes or extra handling fees so the shipping bill trick worked for me.

It would have been more expensive for me to get the game at Essen.


I'm pretty sure that you'll receive a bill from your customs office soon. According to EU regulations from 2008, imported goods from the US (eg. Software/CDs or Movie DVDs) up to a total value (inkluding shipping, handling, foreign sales taxes, product costs) of 150 Euros are exempt from duties. This exemption does not affect the obligation to pay import sales taxes in the particular EU country. For example, in Germany, imported goods with a total value of 22 Euros (and below) are exempt from import sales taxes. Thus, in Germany, you'd still have to pay the EUSt (Import Sales Tax), which is 19% (which applies for CDs/Software, if I am not mistaken) right now. Books are taxed with 7% Import Sales Tax.

If Matrix could generate/compute a "creative" bill that would state the value of books/manuals included, and deduct these amounts from the totals for the "backup"-CDs, the duties could be lowered to a pretty ridiculous import tax amount.

Whatsoever, the Netherlands have similar import sales tax regulations:

Game manual (i'd say it could be seen as book) = 6% import sales tax
"Back-up"-CD (computer software -> game) = 21%

Let's say Matrix would bill you with the following

$20 for shipping and handling (i don't know the actual price)
$30 for the product (Software-CD/game) and
$10 for the "book", means the manual)

then customs will include the costs for shipping/handling in the calculation (as transport fees and insurance fees are being taxed too), resulting in a total taxable amount of $60.

Converted to Euros : 44.62 EUR
VAT: 7.70 EUR
Import duty: 0.00 EUR
------------------------------
Total landed costs: 52.31 EUR

With some more creative billing, Matrix could probably lower the import costs for customers who ordered both, digital and physical version of a game.

http://www.dutycalculator.com/new-import-duty-and-tax-calculation/saved_calculations/view_details/186462948/

< Message edited by GoodGuy -- 11/15/2013 4:27:26 PM >


_____________________________

"Aw Nuts"
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December 22nd, 1944
Bastogne

---
"I've always felt that the AA (Alied Assault engine) had the potential to be [....] big."
Tim Stone
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(in reply to boshar)
Post #: 3
RE: WIF and shipping to EU, my positive experience - 11/15/2013 3:45:06 PM   
boshar

 

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I just looked it up on the customs site. Like you mentioned here is no Import duty (< EUR 150 )

The Matrix invoice lists the books, maps and a Backup disk (this could be interpreted as a disk containing PDF's of the included maps and books). VAT on books in the Netherlands is 6%. The VAT is calculated on the value of the package (excluding shipping). 6% duty over EUR 30 means a duty of less then 2 Euro. When they count the $ 6,74 backup disk as game software(21 % tax) the total VAT would be around 3 Euro. Sending a bil for that amount would almost cost them more in paper, handling and postage.

As far as I know the shipping firm is responsible for these costs and usually I had to pay such costs before receiving a package. I all let you know if they send me a bill.

(in reply to GoodGuy)
Post #: 4
RE: WIF and shipping to EU, my positive experience - 11/15/2013 3:57:42 PM   
GoodGuy

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: boshar

The VAT is calculated on the value of the package (excluding shipping).
....

In Germany, Import VAT is calculated on the total value including shipping. I could imagine other European countries do the same.

quote:

... As far as I know the shipping firm is responsible for these costs and usually I had to pay such costs before receiving a package. I all let you know if they send me a bill.


You pay for the product costs and/or transportation costs (COD = cash on delivery), if they weren't paid beforehand, then they'll hand over the parcel.

In Germany, UPS and Fedex do not collect custom duties or import sales taxes for private customers. That's the job of the customs office. With large volume deliveries (by ship, plane, train) for companies/businesses, such carriers take over declarations/clearing of the goods, means they also pay fees, duties etc., and then bill the recipient, in addition to the transportation costs, accordingly. I don't see why their branch in the NL should collect duties/taxes from private customers for the NL customs office, without getting their expenditures reimbursed from either sender or recipient.

< Message edited by GoodGuy -- 11/15/2013 6:08:54 PM >


_____________________________

"Aw Nuts"
General Anthony McAuliffe
December 22nd, 1944
Bastogne

---
"I've always felt that the AA (Alied Assault engine) had the potential to be [....] big."
Tim Stone
8th of August, 2006

(in reply to boshar)
Post #: 5
RE: WIF and shipping to EU, my positive experience - 11/15/2013 5:32:30 PM   
Solaristics


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I'll be interested to see what happens to people in the UK. If it is indeed marked as books worth $40 on the custom declaration form, then it shouldn't attract VAT (books are zero rated, although not sure if books+shipping are also treated as zero rated), which means it will avoid the custom agent's fee, and it is also too low a value to attract duty. So, it may escape all taxes, fees and duties.

(in reply to GoodGuy)
Post #: 6
RE: WIF and shipping to EU, my positive experience - 11/15/2013 6:07:09 PM   
Centuur


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GoodGuy

quote:

ORIGINAL: boshar

The VAT is calculated on the value of the package (excluding shipping).
....

In Germany, Import VAT is calculated on the total value including shipping. I could imagine other European countries do the same.

quote:

... As far as I know the shipping firm is responsible for these costs and usually I had to pay such costs before receiving a package. I all let you know if they send me a bill.


You pay for the product costs and/or transportation costs (COD = cash on delivery), if they weren't paid beforehand, then they'll hand over the parcel.

In Germany, UPS and Fedex do not collect custom duties or import sales taxes for private customers. That's the job of the customs office. With large volume deliveries (by ship, plane, train) for companies/businesses, such carriers take over declarations/clearing of the goods, means they also pay fees, duties etc., and then bill the recipient, in addition to the transportation costs, accordingly. I don't see why their branch in the NL should collect duties/taxes from private customers for the NL customs office, without getting their expenditures reimbursed from either sender or recipient.


Because of the fact that the goods are books and the DVD is mentioned to be a "back up" DVD, Dutch customs will find that this shipment is under the 6% VAT charges.
Every item shipped into the Netherlands which has a value of more than € 22,-- is charged with VAT and import duties.
In the Netherlands, they've made a law against inefficient governmental financial transactions. If the fee to be paid to the Government is less than € 10,--, they won't make a bill for this (costs to much money) if the recipient is a natural person who hasn't done to many imports (they register the name and adress used to check this).
This means that a natural person only gets to pay if he really is importing a lot from abroad...

The game is listed for € 79,--. This means € 4,74 on VAT. Custom duties are maximised at 100% for small amounts, so that makes this delivery just under € 10,--. So no customs bill in the Netherlands...

< Message edited by Centuur -- 11/15/2013 7:10:52 PM >


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RE: WIF and shipping to EU, my positive experience - 11/16/2013 4:40:06 PM   
GoodGuy

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

Because of the fact that the goods are books and the DVD is mentioned to be a "back up" DVD, Dutch customs will find that this shipment is under the 6% VAT charges.


The "books"-part consists of a manual, maps etc. Since none of these will have international ISBN numbers like real books (or like 3rd party guides or "how to"-books for popular computer games), and since customs is obliged to go through the stuff in detail, no matter what the bill says, there are high chances that customs will identify these things as what they are: instruction manuals and maps, thus parts of a computer game. In that case, they may correctly apply 21% in the NL.


quote:

Every item shipped into the Netherlands which has a value of more than € 22,-- is charged with VAT and import duties.


That's not correct. Since 2008, deliveries (item + shipping and insurance costs) of up to 150 EUR are exempt from import duties throughout the European Union, but the import tax (VAT) (!) still has to be applied/paid. There is no duty or VAT for deliveries below 22 Euros, as you stated above.

quote:

In the Netherlands, they've made a law against inefficient governmental financial transactions. If the fee to be paid to the Government is less than € 10,--, they won't make a bill for this (costs to much money) if the recipient is a natural person who hasn't done to many imports (they register the name and adress used to check this).
This means that a natural person only gets to pay if he really is importing a lot from abroad...

The game is listed for € 79,--. This means € 4,74 on VAT. Custom duties are maximised at 100% for small amounts, so that makes this delivery just under € 10,--. So no customs bill in the Netherlands...


If they simply surf to the Matrixgames website, and check on the price for "World in Flames Physical with Free Download" (78.99 EUR), and in case that a boxed computer game with manuals and maps is expectedly being charged with 21% import tax in the Netherlands, they'll apply 16.59 Euros VAT, so that the "10 Euros"-rule won't apply.

Actually, I don't see a reason why manuals without ISBN-no. should be charged with the reduced VAT of 6%, anymore, so I rather expect customs to ignore the "book" statement on the bill and to see the books as parts of a computer game.

Just like Matrix said, it may come down to individual customs offices or even single officers when it comes to national import taxes, but be prepared for having to pay something between 11 EUR to 17.40 EUR (converting to VAT rates from 15% to 22%, = 14.84 USD to 23.49 USD), depending on your local import tax rate.

< Message edited by GoodGuy -- 11/16/2013 6:02:47 PM >


_____________________________

"Aw Nuts"
General Anthony McAuliffe
December 22nd, 1944
Bastogne

---
"I've always felt that the AA (Alied Assault engine) had the potential to be [....] big."
Tim Stone
8th of August, 2006

(in reply to Centuur)
Post #: 8
RE: WIF and shipping to EU, my positive experience - 11/16/2013 4:59:09 PM   
chemkid

 

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.

< Message edited by chemkid -- 4/25/2018 8:06:39 AM >


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Post #: 9
RE: WIF and shipping to EU, my positive experience - 11/16/2013 5:24:41 PM   
GoodGuy

 

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From: Cologne, Germany
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quote:

ORIGINAL: chemkid

GoodGuy, thanks for that info!

der zoll in muenchen ist gut weit draussen - die fahrkarte kostet schon 'nen 10er...
bin gespannt was da geht...

cheers!
chem!


Good point, Chemkid. He said that the (train?) ticket to his regional customs office would cost 10 Euros, already.
Hmm, 20 Euros for a round-trip? Your hobby is getting quite expensive, Chem ! hehe

Some customs offices are really far out over here, and in Germany, if they can't figure the real value (say they are too lazy, they have no internet-access, time or intelligence to do the research) you end up having to pick up the parcel yourself and explain it to them at the particular office in the middle of nowhere.
So you might want to add fuel/transportation costs to the calculation, depending on your region.

I'm lucky I guess, my office is just across the river in my hometown

Btw, I forgot to add something in my VAT calculation: Shipping + Handling will be added to the price of the game, then the VAT will be applied to that total amount.

EDIT: I just went through the Plimus payment process for testing purposes, and, unlike the process at Digital River back in the days, it doesn't seem like VAT is being added, so the new calculation for Germany below looks right:

WIF .......................................... 78.99 (100.03 USD)
+shipping and handling ........... 33.17 (42.00 USD)
-----------------------------------
total ....................................... 112.16
VAT rate (19% for Germany)..... 21.31
--------------------------------------------------------------------
= WIF + shipping + VAT........... 133.47 (180.15 USD)
+ transportation costs (if applicable)


The total costs for the game without VAT (or assumed fuel/transportation costs) amount to 112.16 EUROs ($151.39), already, because of those high shipping costs. I wonder if a standard mail parcel from the US to Germany really costs $42, looks quite expensive to me, to be honest. On the other hand, I don't know the size/weight of the parcel.

Anyway, $180.15 for a game, that's quite some expensive hobby .

If I am not mistaken, the game (physical + free download) got a price tag of $99.99 for US customers (which converts to 74.10 EUR right now), so the price tag of 78.99 EUR for European customers seems to carry a safety buffer to protect from currency conversion fluctuations, which is somewhat high at ~5 EUR, and which will add quite some profit if the conversion rate is favourable for Matrix, but with the current conversion rate it is just about acceptable.

< Message edited by GoodGuy -- 11/16/2013 7:51:04 PM >


_____________________________

"Aw Nuts"
General Anthony McAuliffe
December 22nd, 1944
Bastogne

---
"I've always felt that the AA (Alied Assault engine) had the potential to be [....] big."
Tim Stone
8th of August, 2006

(in reply to chemkid)
Post #: 10
RE: WIF and shipping to EU, my positive experience - 11/16/2013 8:52:10 PM   
boshar

 

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From: the Netherlands
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I don't know what your interest in this matter is GoodGuy. It seems to me that you did not buy the game yourself and it almost looks like you would like us to get hit with hefty import fees.

In your perfect strict customs example the customs officer has almost limitless time and goes on checking for ISBN codes and surfs the internet to make 100% sure that al is as it should be. However there is no legal requirement for books to have an ISBN in the Netherlands so your argument about the 3 'things' in the package not being counted as books is not valid.

As I described at the start of the topic my package was opened for customs purposes and fully inspected. I think you have to take into account the volume of packages that has to go trough customs every day. When I go by comments on other internet sites about importing from the US I get the impression that maybe 1 in 3 packages will be checked. Now my package with its 13 lbs of weight and considerable size drew attention and was checked and even then the customs officer saw it contained the books and maps as described. He never even saw the DVD as it is stored in a sleeve in Vol 1 but its honestly mentioned in the description. The price of $40 for 3 books and a few odd looking posters is not that uncommon. Why would a customs officer look even further as he is already spending considerable time on a package that has obviously a low value in tax revenue, doesn't contain drugs and isn't shipped to a known criminal.

Now if you really want to cheat Dutch customs out of legally owned taxes you should describe your shipment as 2nd hand game. If I'm as creative as you are with the ISBN = book definition I could even argue that the game is already used (by me as I'm playing the downloaded version) so the package only contains a 2nd hand copy

I stand by my promise and wil report back any extra handling costs and taxes I might receive. At the moment my best guess still is that there are no extra costs.

< Message edited by boshar -- 11/16/2013 10:01:54 PM >

(in reply to GoodGuy)
Post #: 11
RE: WIF and shipping to EU, my positive experience - 11/17/2013 12:37:02 AM   
GoodGuy

 

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From: Cologne, Germany
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quote:

ORIGINAL: boshar

.... it almost looks like you would like us to get hit with hefty import fees.


That's a pretty bold allegation.
Actually, I'd prefer if there'd be no import duties at all.
I just wanted to point out that the Matrix statement ("but what we can tell you is that our research would seem to indicate that duty, sales or VAT charge from your authorities, if levied, should be no more than $20 per package") may not hold true (at locations where officers know their job), and that it is based on sloppy research. If customs manages to evaluate the correct value and if customs ignores Matrix' favour to customers (the fabricated values on the bill), VAT will be 28.76 USD in Germany and even more in the NL.
It's pretty nice of Matrix that they are doing that, though. Worth a try.

quote:

In your perfect strict customs example the customs officer has almost limitless time and goes on checking for ISBN codes

You reported that they opened your package, correct? They have to classify the type of goods. So, if they take their jobs serious, they will look for an ISBN-code on the manual. If their rules say "no ISBN = not a book", they'll classify it accordingly. If all printed "thingies", game manual or not, are seen as book, then fair enough, i doubt it, though. They just have to check the first pages to see what it is, plus they just have to go to the Matrix website and add the game to the basket in the shop, to see the real values for product and shipping.

quote:

.... and surfs the internet to make 100% sure that al is as it should be.


Yes. The daughter of my gf received a designer jeans-jacket from her grandma from the US, a birthday present obtained at a Macy's shop. When we got to the local German customs office, the officer told us that he had done some research on Macy's website to evaluate the value, but failed to find that particular jacket, so we figured that it must have been from a discontinued line of clothes and/or on clearance.
Before he opened the parcel again, he asked if the daughter would want to wait outside, in order not to spoil the type of present, which was pretty nice, btw. She stayed with us and the customs officer got the jacket and told us that this particular brand's jackets for kids are usually $200-350 (so, anything than cheap) and that he did not think that the value given by her grandma on the parcel's declaration sticker ($60 for a new item) would reflect the truth.

We acted the innocents, but actually performed a some similar research right before we got to the customs office and couldn't come up with the jacket either, but figured - after some more thorough research - that similar jackets ranged between $179 and $450.

Since he couldn't prove his suspicion, and since it was her birthday, he gave us the parcel and waived duty payment for the jacket.

quote:

I get the impression that maybe 1 in 3 packages will be checked.

If "checked" means opened, then it's a fraction of that amount, these days. In Frankfurt, Cologne or Belgium (the UPS/Fedex hubs in Europe) roughly 1 out of 50 (or even more) parcels will get checked, only. But ALL parcels that fit in the scanner will be scanned, and parcels that won't fit get opened anyway. I've worked at an airport, so that's actually 1st hand experience.

quote:

He never even saw the DVD as it is stored in a sleeve...


How do you know? And it doesn't even matter, as there are enough clues that it's a computer game with manual and maps.

quote:

Why would a customs officer look even further as he is already spending considerable time on a package that has obviously a low value in tax revenue, doesn't contain drugs and isn't shipped to a known criminal.


You might want to ask that question those officers who charge ppl in the NL with duty values slightly over 10 Euros.

He is obliged to look further, unless the scanner didn't come up with anything suspicious, or unless his experience, his stomach or his pinky toe tells him everything is legit, because he doesn't have the time to open every parcel, indeed.
A DVD sleeve or DVD jewel case could also contain drugs, or let's say the DVD could actually contain DTP or video software for way over $1000, or the complete MS Office Suite. I don't think you know how customs inspections work. If your parcel gained some attention, and if they checked stuff properly, you'll get a bill. If not, you're lucky.

quote:

Now if you really want to cheat Dutch customs out of legally owned taxes you should describe your shipment as 2nd hand game.


Good idea, maybe Matrix should look into getting to work that method.

quote:


I stand by my promise and wil report back any extra handling costs and taxes I might receive. At the moment my best guess still is that there are no extra costs.


Yes, I'm really interested to see if you get billed or not. Looking forward to your report.


< Message edited by GoodGuy -- 11/17/2013 2:38:24 AM >

(in reply to boshar)
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RE: WIF and shipping to EU, my positive experience - 11/18/2013 3:44:01 PM   
Gresbeck

 

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I regret to admit that GoodGuy is right. My package couldn't be delivered, as I was out of my office at the moment Fedex arrived. My order (from Italy) is actually scheduled as "held. Unable to collect payment". I phoned Fedex and they said I'm charged 31 euros (maybe some cents more). My fault, I should have read Matrix announcement better (but couldn't they post it some days before the game release?). In any case, I dont't think this is a good policy. Customers can never be sure about the total amount of payment, and substantially must "bet" on the behaviour of custom authorities. By the way, it is confirmed that Italian custom authorities are the most efficient in Europe (I heard something like that, but couldn't believe it ).

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RE: WIF and shipping to EU, my positive experience - 11/18/2013 4:15:45 PM   
nervi

 

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The custom value of the package is 40 US dollar......
That is what the fedex shows on all their stickers.....
complete and accurate commodity description and country of manufacture:
backup disc, price of disc 4.89
vol.1 book 10.56
vol.2 book 11.56
vol.3 book 5.33
world in flames maps 7.55

The above is a bit different typed, but that is basically what the commercial invoice paper says, that is in the plastic sticked to the package.
Any custom officer, will see the 40 u.s. value and the prices above.

So yeah, the person who's signature was printed below it, was lying.... or scammed by his personel;)

PS: I got it this afternoon delivered in the Netherlands.

< Message edited by nervi -- 11/18/2013 5:16:36 PM >

(in reply to Gresbeck)
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RE: WIF and shipping to EU, my positive experience - 11/18/2013 11:49:46 PM   
GoodGuy

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gresbeck

I phoned Fedex and they said I'm charged 31 euros (maybe some cents more). My fault, I should have read Matrix announcement better (but couldn't they post it some days before the game release?).

Ciao Gresbeck.

That is quite a lot. I think the VAT rate in Italy is 22%, right?
So you'd have to pay 24.68 EUR (= 33.34 USD) VAT, if they apply the calculation (game + shipping costs * 22% = VAT) I posted above. Did they add some weird processing fee?
I'd be interested to get to know their reasoning for that VAT bill.


quote:

By the way, it is confirmed that Italian custom authorities are the most efficient in Europe (I heard something like that, but couldn't believe it ).


Well, hard to believe. But who knows, maybe they have more personnel.
Maybe that's another reason for Italy struggling with the economy, as quite some money may go into having a bloated bureaucracy, instead of putting it into countering youth unemployment.
On the other hand, if a state catches most of the cheats and tricks when it comes to import taxes, it will get more money to its treasury. The question is, whether the bloated customs bureaucracy does make more money than it costs, or not, though.


< Message edited by GoodGuy -- 11/19/2013 12:56:58 AM >


_____________________________

"Aw Nuts"
General Anthony McAuliffe
December 22nd, 1944
Bastogne

---
"I've always felt that the AA (Alied Assault engine) had the potential to be [....] big."
Tim Stone
8th of August, 2006

(in reply to Gresbeck)
Post #: 15
RE: WIF and shipping to EU, my positive experience - 11/19/2013 8:01:38 PM   
Hotschi


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All 3 manuals have a ISBN number and EAN code printed on the backside - and yes 3 different ones. The DVD is enclosed in a paper-wrap inside Volume 1.

So this 3 books are clearly what they appear to be; BOOKS. Bear in mind that numerous computer books contain DVD's as well, and they're still just that - books.

Bearing a ISBN number doesn't define a book, by the way. Books, newspapers and magazines are free of custom duties here - I reckon the same is the case in a couple other countries as well.

_____________________________

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RE: WIF and shipping to EU, my positive experience - 11/19/2013 10:03:37 PM   
Toby42


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Is the Serial Number on the DVD the same number that you received when you did the D/L? I would imagine it would have to be? So they would have to match your D/L serial number to which one they are shipping to you....

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RE: WIF and shipping to EU, my positive experience - 11/19/2013 10:08:10 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Treale

Is the Serial Number on the DVD the same number that you received when you did the D/L? I would imagine it would have to be? So they would have to match your D/L serial number to which one they are shipping to you....

Yes.

_____________________________

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Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 18
RE: WIF and shipping to EU, my positive experience - 11/19/2013 10:18:46 PM   
boshar

 

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They don't have to match it they print the DVD label with your name and serial number. Custom / hand made, the real sign of quality!

(in reply to Toby42)
Post #: 19
RE: WIF and shipping to EU, my positive experience - 11/20/2013 8:35:42 AM   
Gresbeck

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GoodGuy

That is quite a lot. I think the VAT rate in Italy is 22%, right?
So you'd have to pay 24.68 EUR (= 33.34 USD) VAT, if they apply the calculation (game + shipping costs * 22% = VAT) I posted above. Did they add some weird processing fee?
I'd be interested to get to know their reasoning for that VAT bill.



I'm travelling now and I don't have the bill (which I conserve, and I can scan if you wish). I received the package yesterday (and paid 31,07 Euro). It seems that

1. VAT (22%) is calculated on a presumptive value (apparently, they don't trust the declaration and apply a standard value based on size and weight of package). IIRC it was ca. 20-21 euro.

2. Ca. 10 euro are labeled as "administrative costs". Not sure what that means. It could be a service fee paid to FEDEX to clear the package through customs.

All in all, I don’t like complaining (and I won’t insist on the topic), but I think the matter hasn’t been professionally handled by Matrix, for the following reasons:
1. The announcement about shipping and possible customs tax should have been posted (at least) some days before the release;
2. Customers don’t know the total price they will have to pay to get the game delivered;
3. EU customers are differently treated depending on different custom authorities behavior (which they cannot control and predict); Matrix should take responsibility to guarantee a uniform customer treatment;
4. Even worse, although I’m happy for my EU friends who didn’t pay VAT, packages to which VAT was not applied are technically “smuggled”. Matrix announcement should be read as follows: “C’mon guys, we all know VAT is normally evaded, and the great majority of you will evade it, we’re sorry for the few people to which the law will be applied”;
5. Matrix had alternative ways to handle the problem. The offer of a digital download for the same price (without expedition costs) has been extensively debated, and I won’t insist on it. Let’s assume Matrix cannot accept a “digital only” distribution; but couldn’t delivery into EU be delayed till February / March, when a EU distribution is settled?

I accept the statement that this was an exceptional product released under exceptional circumstances, I believe in Matrix good faith, but I won’t accept such a policy any more.

(in reply to GoodGuy)
Post #: 20
RE: WIF and shipping to EU, my positive experience - 11/20/2013 9:58:33 AM   
danimaning2

 

Posts: 40
Joined: 12/26/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gresbeck


quote:

ORIGINAL: GoodGuy

That is quite a lot. I think the VAT rate in Italy is 22%, right?
So you'd have to pay 24.68 EUR (= 33.34 USD) VAT, if they apply the calculation (game + shipping costs * 22% = VAT) I posted above. Did they add some weird processing fee?
I'd be interested to get to know their reasoning for that VAT bill.



I'm travelling now and I don't have the bill (which I conserve, and I can scan if you wish). I received the package yesterday (and paid 31,07 Euro). It seems that

1. VAT (22%) is calculated on a presumptive value (apparently, they don't trust the declaration and apply a standard value based on size and weight of package). IIRC it was ca. 20-21 euro.

2. Ca. 10 euro are labeled as "administrative costs". Not sure what that means. It could be a service fee paid to FEDEX to clear the package through customs.

All in all, I don’t like complaining (and I won’t insist on the topic), but I think the matter hasn’t been professionally handled by Matrix, for the following reasons:
1. The announcement about shipping and possible customs tax should have been posted (at least) some days before the release;
2. Customers don’t know the total price they will have to pay to get the game delivered;
3. EU customers are differently treated depending on different custom authorities behavior (which they cannot control and predict); Matrix should take responsibility to guarantee a uniform customer treatment;
4. Even worse, although I’m happy for my EU friends who didn’t pay VAT, packages to which VAT was not applied are technically “smuggled”. Matrix announcement should be read as follows: “C’mon guys, we all know VAT is normally evaded, and the great majority of you will evade it, we’re sorry for the few people to which the law will be applied”;
5. Matrix had alternative ways to handle the problem. The offer of a digital download for the same price (without expedition costs) has been extensively debated, and I won’t insist on it. Let’s assume Matrix cannot accept a “digital only” distribution; but couldn’t delivery into EU be delayed till February / March, when a EU distribution is settled?

I accept the statement that this was an exceptional product released under exceptional circumstances, I believe in Matrix good faith, but I won’t accept such a policy any more.



It's very frustrating for the European players this thinks.
I can´t understand the abuse by Matrix to us with this issue.

We want pay the game, we don´t complain it price, but the other unnecessary costs are priceless.

(in reply to Gresbeck)
Post #: 21
RE: WIF and shipping to EU, my positive experience - 11/20/2013 2:53:39 PM   
chemkid

 

Posts: 1239
Joined: 12/15/2012
Status: offline
.

< Message edited by chemkid -- 4/25/2018 8:06:04 AM >


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Post #: 22
RE: WIF and shipping to EU, my positive experience - 11/20/2013 4:34:03 PM   
philsublime

 

Posts: 41
Joined: 10/19/2004
Status: offline
I just got my package today! Those manuals are extremely well done! Thank you Matrixgames for this superb job!!! Also, shipping was extremely fast. It took only 3 days to Switzerland! Maybe I will receive a customs invoice, but I don't think so (import taxes are only 8% in Switzerland).

I would gladly pay for other game manuals like this. You should publish the same kind of manuals for other games too! I'm thinking about WitE for example...


(in reply to boshar)
Post #: 23
RE: WIF and shipping to EU, my positive experience - 11/21/2013 2:57:20 PM   
kkinoss

 

Posts: 2
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
Got mine today in the UK with no associated import duties.

(in reply to philsublime)
Post #: 24
RE: WIF and shipping to EU, my positive experience - 11/21/2013 8:00:06 PM   
juopa

 

Posts: 2
Joined: 11/21/2013
Status: offline
To Finland it gets as high cost as 40$ for invoice as posted and 42$ postal costs for FedEx (both are taxable). So when paying 24% as per VAT that costs 14,5€ net. So not that much but still all extra cost that does not go to game developers :(

If FedEx will do the toll for you (instead of filling up the the internet toll claim for your self) it will cost some 13-14€ more.

So for me it's not an issue anymore but for others it would be nice to have some "warehouse" in EU :)

(in reply to kkinoss)
Post #: 25
RE: WIF and shipping to EU, my positive experience - 11/21/2013 11:16:37 PM   
Cataphract88


Posts: 720
Joined: 10/5/2012
From: Britannia
Status: offline
Received my copy earlier today - incredibly fast delivery by FedEx, and no UK custom's duties to pay - the books are great quality.

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Richard

(in reply to juopa)
Post #: 26
RE: WIF and shipping to EU, my positive experience - 11/25/2013 1:04:38 PM   
Furbet


Posts: 95
Joined: 10/23/2013
Status: offline

Don't be too sure, got a bill from FedEx this morning in the UK, not too bad at £15.44 of which £10.50 is an advancement fee.

(in reply to Cataphract88)
Post #: 27
RE: WIF and shipping to EU, my positive experience - 11/25/2013 1:07:54 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 40253
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Subeto


Don't be too sure, got a bill from FedEx this morning in the UK, not too bad at £15.44 of which £10.50 is an advancement fee.
warspite1

Snap! - my £15.44 bill also hit the doormat this morning. Oh well done now - the books and maps are still worth it imo.


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(in reply to Furbet)
Post #: 28
RE: WIF and shipping to EU, my positive experience - 11/26/2013 1:16:26 AM   
Ncore

 

Posts: 15
Joined: 12/30/2011
Status: offline
I would think the customs can't put a very high price for the manuals and backup DVD - it's the game itself (that we have purchased **and downloaded**, or are purchasing in the very near future ) that carries most of the cost. Matrix could help that by differentiating the cost of each item in the invoice (Digital download, books, backup DVD, shipping). Or are they doing that?

The VAT for books is 10% here in Finland and amounts less than 5 € will not be carried. Too bad the shipping cost is included (33 € in my case) in the calculation, so there is no way the taxable amount stays below that magic 50 euros.

I don't really care that much for the few euros, it's the whole customs hassle that annoys me, having to type all the info into the customs form and mail the automated response to the delivery company. Or paying some 20 euros for the company to do that, plus the delay in delivery because of this hassle...

Could be I'll wait for the European dispatch option, even if it takes a few months. I've waited for 16 years and I really don't have time to play before Christmas anyway.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 29
RE: WIF and shipping to EU, my positive experience - 11/26/2013 2:48:47 AM   
paulderynck


Posts: 7818
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline
Matrix includes documents saying the books and back-up CDs are worth $40.

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(in reply to Ncore)
Post #: 30
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