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Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as books go

 
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Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as books go - 11/14/2013 4:28:30 PM   
DSWargamer

 

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Just got my parcel in the mail.

Shared a chuckle with the chap, was mentioning some are lamenting shipping circumstances, the ambush at the door wanting more cash. He seemed to realize immediately it was a moment to disparage FedEx.

Enough of that, let's talk about the actual books, not the CONTENTS of the books, but the books themselves.
If like me, all you have seen is shiny covers, and colourful images on screens. You know how thick the tomes are. You might know page counts.
But a book is not always created equal when it comes to the physicality of the item.

So I take substantial pleasure in letting everyone know, it doesn't really get any better.
I have been buying books for a looooong time. I have bought expensive first edition fiction aplenty. I know what a good book looks and feels like. I will likely spend as much to buy a Terry Brooks Shanara trilogy as I did these books (well before shipping and all that).

I recall the 2nd edition D&D books as hard covers, and they were the last word in the worst made gaming books I have ever had dumped on me. So it is not like good is written in stone.

On opening the volumes, I am pleased to note that they are sturdy, superior, high quality bindings (as I see it). The pages are nice superior quality. You can insist that ADG might have a different slant on the game rules, and they likely will soon enough, but, I dare say, you will not regret playing your game with these manuals, and I don't mind saying, routine, simple stapled wargame rules will lack the thrill of using these books.

Oh if I only had a nice volume like this for my A3R rules. And if ASL was not so prone to revising the page order and just for the sake of typos, I might dive in and get them properly bound too. I might anyway, I have lost the drive and obsession with keeping up on ASL too. I don't really know if I care if I never add another page to my ASL manual set.

These books are awesome. You paid top dollar for a set of books, and you most assuredly have gotten books that will be around a long time regardless of how often you thumb through them.

I feel sad for people who have taken the slant the purchase was the program, and some books added on. I bought the books as well. The books are every bit the reason I was ok with the price. Minus the books, the program is worth at most to me, about 50 bucks like any other piece of software.

No I wanted those books. And they arrived rather promptly I might add.

If I seem to have wandered off after today, I might have just realized, I have said all I can't think of to say. Ideally, I'd also hope I am simply too busy playing the game :)
Going to be reading a while though. There's a lot of book here.

_____________________________

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RE: Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as bo... - 11/14/2013 4:51:37 PM   
FroBodine


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I am so jealous. I can't believe you already received your books so fast, with the shipping problems they said they were having.

I wish I could change my order to overnight delivery. I was hoping to have them by this weekend for my vacation.

(in reply to DSWargamer)
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RE: Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as bo... - 11/14/2013 4:51:45 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Great to hear, thank you for posting!

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RE: Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as bo... - 11/14/2013 4:52:13 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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You may yet receive them by the weekend, jglazier - all things are possible and you are not that far from the warehouse.

< Message edited by Erik Rutins -- 11/14/2013 5:52:29 PM >


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RE: Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as bo... - 11/14/2013 5:00:02 PM   
wodin


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Leaping Horsemen and Jason D Marks books are superb quality, beautiful think semi gloss paper etc etc. You want books on the Eats front then buy Jasons books. The best out there.

Sorry for off topic..

carry on;)

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RE: Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as bo... - 11/14/2013 5:13:57 PM   
FroBodine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

You may yet receive them by the weekend, jglazier - all things are possible and you are not that far from the warehouse.


That would be fabulouso! I still have not received any shipping e-mails, but I am crossing my fingers and toes regardless.

< Message edited by jglazier -- 11/14/2013 6:14:27 PM >

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Post #: 6
RE: Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as bo... - 11/14/2013 5:42:43 PM   
Mundy


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I'm fairly content with what I've spent.  Three of the current Warhammer 40k or FB army books would run $150 alone.  For the books to be included with this game is a steal IMHO.

Ed-

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RE: Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as bo... - 11/14/2013 5:48:05 PM   
icitrom_y

 

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I didn't even receive a FedEx email yet. I keep checking that receipt from Plimus with fields for tracking number and they remain empty. Shouldn't the rest of us at least have a tracking number? (I ordered a couple of hours after the game went on sale.)

I'd like to know because I'm receiving my package in the US although I live in Canada. I'd like to be able to coordinate things.

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RE: Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as bo... - 11/14/2013 5:49:16 PM   
76mm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DSWargamer
I feel sad for people who have taken the slant the purchase was the program, and some books added on. I bought the books as well. The books are every bit the reason I was ok with the price. Minus the books, the program is worth at most to me, about 50 bucks like any other piece of software.

No I wanted those books. And they arrived rather promptly I might add.


Yup, we get it--you like books, and I'm truly glad that you like them. But that doesn't mean that everyone will, or should, want them or need them.

(in reply to DSWargamer)
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RE: Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as bo... - 11/14/2013 6:04:38 PM   
Centuur


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm


quote:

ORIGINAL: DSWargamer
I feel sad for people who have taken the slant the purchase was the program, and some books added on. I bought the books as well. The books are every bit the reason I was ok with the price. Minus the books, the program is worth at most to me, about 50 bucks like any other piece of software.

No I wanted those books. And they arrived rather promptly I might add.


Yup, we get it--you like books, and I'm truly glad that you like them. But that doesn't mean that everyone will, or should, want them or need them.


I understand. But they are really looking good, if you want them or not...

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(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 10
RE: Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as bo... - 11/14/2013 6:12:00 PM   
chekers_MatrixForum

 

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I ordered the game on the day it came out and I've still not received the e-mail confirmation of it being sent to me. So thanks for rubbing it in my face

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RE: Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as bo... - 11/14/2013 6:20:49 PM   
Numdydar

 

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Well if it they were shipped USPS then you could still get them on Saturday, otherwise if not tomorrow, then next week.

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RE: Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as bo... - 11/14/2013 6:21:39 PM   
Maesphil74

 

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I'm starting to appreciate the discussion that went/goes on concerning the shipping (any news on this Erik and other Matrix people?) of the books.

You have the PC gamers: not used to physical shipping.  Don't like books as manuals and read pdf on screen/ipad/laptop. 
And then you have the board gamers who were drawn to this site because of MWIF.  They are used to physical products, they crave books.

I can appreciate both sides.   That's why I was flabbergasted the choice wasn't offered by Matrix.   Give the books to the people like DSWargamer; I really appreciate how happy he is.  He wouldn't even imagine playing this game without those books.
And keep the books where they are for the people like me

I thought Matrix had a meeting yesterday to discuss the option of DD only.
No news on that?

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RE: Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as bo... - 11/14/2013 6:32:19 PM   
76mm


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don't get me wrong, I love paper books and have a a couple walls full of beautiful volumes, mainly history and literature. That said, I buy hard copies now only when a kindle version is not available (which is often enough for WWII history). and game manuals in particular have no appeal for me.

< Message edited by 76mm -- 11/14/2013 7:33:11 PM >

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Post #: 14
RE: Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as bo... - 11/14/2013 6:33:50 PM   
Maesphil74

 

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Oh, me too.  I have a nice library upstairs.  But no game manuals.  All nicely sorted in the ebooks app. 

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RE: Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as bo... - 11/14/2013 7:41:05 PM   
DSWargamer

 

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I suppose it depends on your definition of 'game manual'.

I printed out my War in the East manual in black and white, because eventually an emanual is not identical to an ebook. You might wonder, where is the distinction. Well. in a manual, I might want to go from one page to another back and forth several times and read several others all mixed in there. Sure I could read the WitE manual off my tablet, but, they suck for thumbing through as manuals.

Now, if it was me reading my latest Dune series novel, well the difference is I read a page, I turn the page, I read the next page I turn the page, if I feel I have read enough after 10 pages I put it down, and I might not get back to if for hours or days. But the story remains in my head, although the contents are just that, a story. They are not a manual.

When playing a game, a complex game, I am likely going to be flying back and forth through sections reading and re reading and then re reading some more. And it is just not the same with a efile.

Not all games are this complex. There is a manual for Battle Academy. I never read it. Never read it either. There's nothing to read really. You play the 3-5 minute tutorial to explain the interface controls and after that, the real learning process is in realizing why your friend keeps doing the things they do in game, and how do you pull something on them that takes them off guard. You don't get that in a manual.

Some games, the manual is useful, but it is hard to get worked up over a short brief manual. And in some cases, the tutorial scenario is what you need and all you need. Looking here at the books and realizing, THOSE are the tutorials :)

But I recall many games of the past, and nothing happened till you learned the manual.
I think some of wargaming, loses out on something valuable, when too much of the game is actually hidden under the hood in the program.
I know why everything does what it does in the ASL manual. I have no real idea why so much of what happens happens in Steel Panthers. It's mostly click unit, you can move in the shaded spot only, and no thinking involved. Now an ASLer can tell you precisely why the unit can get to any place in range of it in a single move. They can systematically list off each and every miniscule expenditure of effort.

So much of that is missing in computer wargames and while that can be ok, the thing is, it is still missing.

I like having the print manuals here. I can now dive into this game, and utterly digest this game, and no exactly what should be happening on the screen from the inside out. And pdf files, will just not be as easy to read. The magnitude is too great in this case.

I tried the idea of using my tablet and my laptop to run role games. Thought it would prevent me from being swamped under a stack of books. Thought 'hey cool, I can walk to the game, just the laptop, and not be buried under a ton of books. It didn't work. Eventually, you need the physical in some cases. The tablet is a great idea to read a book at the donut shop, or read a book on the subway to work. They can play video, and they make nice web browsers, and they are ok to read novels from. They are a lame substitute for a manual though.

I think the largest problem besetting computer World in Flames, is the perception it is more computer program, than set of books.
I think there will be a lot of people finding out, that relying on pdf files is just not going to cut it as well.
They are ok for the light reading aspect if you want to get in some study on the toilet, or a lunch break, or at the cottage. But for playing the game, I have no expectations of using anything digital for reference.

_____________________________

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RE: Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as bo... - 11/14/2013 7:53:12 PM   
Maesphil74

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DSWargamer

I suppose it depends on your definition of 'game manual'.
...

With all due respect but it seems you just aren't using pdf files as they were designed to be used.
You can create bookmarks for getting to pages quick, search the document for key words, keep them updated in case of errata, they can be hyperlinked with several key words etc.

And btw: I read my ipad on the toilet as well


Anyhow, I appreciate what you're saying.
I just don't get why they are had to 'force' the books on everyone.

Don't you agree that a choice would have been better? That way the both of us would be happy.

(in reply to DSWargamer)
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RE: Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as bo... - 11/14/2013 7:57:03 PM   
Rainsong94

 

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Very well said DSWargamer!!

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RE: Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as bo... - 11/14/2013 8:24:04 PM   
76mm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DSWargamer
I think the largest problem besetting computer World in Flames, is the perception it is more computer program, than set of books.


I understand why you like paper manuals, just not everyone feels the same.

And I have to say that I find the statement above to be really difficult to understand and impossible to agree with. We've been arguing about whether Matrix should offer a D/D only version, are you suggesting that they should also offer a book-only version?

(in reply to DSWargamer)
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RE: Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as bo... - 11/14/2013 10:19:01 PM   
Dorb


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76mm, I can't wait until you actually get the game. Starting to think I want you to have the game as much as you want it. Maybe we can all pool some $$$ together to help with the freight issue for you...

One day down the road we will all look back on all these posts and have a good laugh.

(in reply to 76mm)
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RE: Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as bo... - 11/14/2013 10:42:44 PM   
Dorb


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The title of this thread reminds me of a Seinfeld episode, "they're REAL and they're SPECTACULAR"

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RE: Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as bo... - 11/14/2013 10:45:24 PM   
wodin


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Makes no sense..if that was the case what was the point of all that hard work Shannon has doe..might aswell just written the books and sent a copy of a Vassal version.
quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

quote:

ORIGINAL: DSWargamer
I think the largest problem besetting computer World in Flames, is the perception it is more computer program, than set of books.


I understand why you like paper manuals, just not everyone feels the same.

And I have to say that I find the statement above to be really difficult to understand and impossible to agree with. We've been arguing about whether Matrix should offer a D/D only version, are you suggesting that they should also offer a book-only version?



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RE: Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as bo... - 11/15/2013 2:56:52 AM   
76mm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dorb
The title of this thread reminds me of a Seinfeld episode, "they're REAL and they're SPECTACULAR"


I remember that one!

But I actually already bought the game, I had the books shipped to my parents in the US, where they will sit. I am in the slow process of reading the manuals (via pdf) and watching the tutorials now.


< Message edited by 76mm -- 11/15/2013 3:57:15 AM >

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RE: Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as bo... - 11/15/2013 3:09:13 AM   
Dr. Foo


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quote:



You have the PC gamers: not used to physical shipping.  Don't like books as manuals and read pdf on screen/ipad/laptop. 
And then you have the board gamers who were drawn to this site because of MWIF.  They are used to physical products, they crave books.



While I am a PC gamer and I was surprised that I had no choice but to buy the books. I really think I'm going to like them. From what I have seen they look expensive and look like they will hold up well with me having my laptop open and one elbow down on the page I am reading to keep it from flipping!



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RE: Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as bo... - 11/15/2013 3:59:06 AM   
DSWargamer

 

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To address to posters.

It is true we perceive Slitherine Group as being primarily a software publisher, but there is nothing preventing them from branching out either. There is nothing preventing MMP from marketing computer wargames either.

But although it was clearly no picnic to make the software, I think in my own view, the software is the icing on the cake, and not the other way around. WiF will never be seen as a computer wargame, it will always be a board game wargame with a computer adaption. Over all I am likely not going too far out on a limb by suggesting a lot of the people getting the game, likely are getting it for reasons similar to mine.

Ideally, I'd rather have the books, and a big enough table to play the board game. The computer program addresses a simple truth, most of us will never enjoy that table.

Without the books, well the computer program would still be ok, but, I think over all, the program would be diminished to the point that a person could say it was just another grand strategy computer wargame. The industry has several of those. There's no real way I'd want to pretend I was going to master this design without the books.

Playing the game, and resorting to just pdf files.... that's like scrubbing my floors with a finger nail brush. Yeah it can be done, I wouldn't volunteer to do it though :)

I was looking at my invoices today though. Hmmm I think there are people at work doing things in our favour when they can though.
Back up disc 6.96
Book 1 10.43
Book 2 13.33
Book 3 9.28

That comes to a very convenient very strategic even 40 bucks.
I think someone deserves some of my homemade muffins.
I appreciate it when the sender does everything they can to make things 'easier' on the destination.

_____________________________

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RE: Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as bo... - 11/15/2013 2:30:44 PM   
Dr. Foo


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Looks like I'll be getting my books today!

quote:


November 15, 2013 , 4:12 am
Arrival at Post Office
HONOLULU, HI 96822


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RE: Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as bo... - 11/21/2013 6:25:02 PM   
bo

 

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Just received my MWIF books and the books are the finest I have ever seen in any computer war game, absolutley awsome. I truly understand the feelings of many posters who bought the game and just wanted the download either because the PDF was in the download or because of very high shipping charges. I really cannot comment one way or the other about my personal feelings about the delivery charges.

With that said a game of this caliber demands the books that we are getting. They are brilliantly done IMO, I have no monetary motive for saying that. There might come a time with some people complaining so much that Matrix might be overwhelmed by this and decide not to include the books in future issues of the game because of shipping prices, this would be IMO a misscarriage of computer war game justice, I hope it never comes to that.

Bo

< Message edited by bo -- 11/21/2013 9:08:44 PM >

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RE: Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as bo... - 11/21/2013 7:20:30 PM   
chuxdecator

 

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This is simple for me and I don't see why it isn't for others. I am extremely happy with my purchase of the game ($99) and the books received. I don't understand the comments from others stating that they don't want the books. Why would you want to pay $99 for the game and not receive the printed books that Matrix graciously includes with the computer game? Is it because you don't want to pay the shipping fees?

One option that could make both sides happy, I suppose maybe, is that Matrix include an option for the consumer to decline the manuals and only receive the dvd thus allowing them to avoid the shipping charges for the books but you would still be paying $99 for the downloaded game without the books which are fantastic btw. Matrix could certainly reap the benefits there so I don't understand the logic from the consumer to not want something offered with the game but then again I am not across the pond where the shipping/custom fees apparently can be hefty.

(in reply to bo)
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RE: Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as bo... - 11/21/2013 8:19:50 PM   
76mm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bo
There might come a time with some people complaining so much that Matrix might be overwhelmed by this and decide not to include the books in future issues of the game because of shipping prices, this would be IMO a misscarriage of computer war game justice, I hope it never comes to that.


Here we go again...I am very glad that Matrix offers beautiful books to those that want them. But when you say that you hope that Matrix does not "decide not to include the books in future issues of the game" what you are really saying is that "I hope that in future Matrix continues to force customers to buy what they don't want, because that is what I think is better for them."

I give up at this point, I really don't get it, does everyone on this board really think that they know what is best for me??

(in reply to bo)
Post #: 29
RE: Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as bo... - 11/21/2013 8:31:14 PM   
Zorachus99


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

quote:

ORIGINAL: bo
There might come a time with some people complaining so much that Matrix might be overwhelmed by this and decide not to include the books in future issues of the game because of shipping prices, this would be IMO a misscarriage of computer war game justice, I hope it never comes to that.


Here we go again...I am very glad that Matrix offers beautiful books to those that want them. But when you say that you hope that Matrix does not "decide not to include the books in future issues of the game" what you are really saying is that "I hope that in future Matrix continues to force customers to buy what they don't want, because that is what I think is better for them."

I give up at this point, I really don't get it, does everyone on this board really think that they know what is best for me??


No.

Just most of them.

_____________________________

Most men can survive adversity, the true test of a man's character is power. -Abraham Lincoln

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