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RE: Need Help? Ask The Semi-Experts

 
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RE: Need Help? Ask The Semi-Experts - 11/10/2013 6:51:22 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 21898
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lingering Frey

I'm struggling against the endless forms and windows. I go to a menu or use a hotkey to open a form and they regularly appear hidden behind the map. I move my mouse over new windows that I finally manage to get on top of another window, only to have the window vanish back under. I only have one monitor, so I don't have endless screen real estate. I tried playing some more for the last six hours and I literally spent MORE than half my time just trying to move windows around to get at information or buttons. (My wife has heard me swearing and has started calling the game "Windows in Flames".)

Is there a full description of how to control the game's windows someplace? The Player's Manual just refers you to the tutorials. The Picture and Text tutorial doesn't have anything. The "Interactive Tutorial" is less than helpful in getting the big picture (I did my best to decode some of the encrypted information...I didn't learn much and had to stop before I punched my monitor. At least I know where to click to drag some of the windows now, even though I still cannot really control what is going on overall). The "Video Tutorials" just activate the "Windows Media Player Classic has stopped working" form.

Any thoughts or advice? I'm 16 hours into fiddling with the game now. I've only managed to get to 1 impulse into Nov/Dec and I still feel like I'm in a constant wrestling match with the interface.

Well, let's see if I can help.

Most forms open so their top is right up against the bottom of the Main form. The detailed map is set up that way too. Try making the detailed Map slightly smaller at the top (the thickness of the border) so there is a gap between the Main form and the detailed map. Then when Help forms, or other forms, appear, you will be able to see their border above the detailed map. Click on their border and they will be on top of the detailed map. Be careful not to run the mouse over the detailed map or it will jump back to being on top. If you do this and like the results, be sure to Redefine the New Game screen layout (.SLY) so the change will be permanent whenever you start the game.

I think the above paragraph describes the best solution, but here is another. Click on the icon in the top left corner of the detailed map. That will roll it up into its top border, getting all but its top border out of the way. Click on the icon a second time and it will roll down again. This might be useful if there are a lot of things you want to review one after another.

Lastly, as a new player you are undoubtedly using the Help menu and the items therein a lot. This is why we want everyone to have the printed manuals. The appendices have virtually all the help pages gathered together in one place. Leave the manual open to those sections and you won't need to display so many forms. Of course everyone is still waiting on the manuals to arrive - and that includes me.

---

If you get frustrated with something, please ask for help. There are many beta testers, not just me, who will be able to answer questions. The game is challenging enough as a game. The player interface shouldn't be getting in your way so much. And if it is, then I want to work on fixing that.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Lingering Frey)
Post #: 61
RE: Need Help? Ask The Semi-Experts - 11/10/2013 7:25:06 PM   
FroBodine


Posts: 856
Joined: 5/5/2007
From: Brentwood, California (not the OJ one)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Grizzly

I am a complete WiF newbie. Where is the best place to start?

- Manuals?
- Video tutorials?
- In game tutorials?

And where to go from there?
warspite1

I am not a complete newb, but even so I would say the tutorials are a must. They take time to go through, but given the manuals don't seem to really tell you how to do things, I think the videos are invaluable.



The manuals don't really tell you how to do things? Well, this sounds like a big problem. I better start looking at the manuals to see what you mean, but their 500+ pages had better teach me how to do things in the game.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 62
RE: Need Help? Ask The Semi-Experts - 11/10/2013 7:35:32 PM   
Lingering Frey

 

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Joined: 2/16/2012
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Reducing the size of the detailed map seems like it will solve some of my issues. (I'm not sure what you meant by reducing the thickness of the border of the window. If that is something you can do separate from reducing the size of the window overall, I don't know how to do it.) One of the first things I have been doing when starting the game is making the map larger so that I can reduce the amount of scrolling around I have to do.

I just spent some time playing with the "Screen Layout" form since you mentioned the "Redefine" thing. I hadn't delved into the tiny box that said "New Game" in it, but which didn't do anything when you click on it. I'm still puzzled by why "Add to list" doesn't have any files to add. Not sure what that means. I have my new layout saved and "new game" appears below it as a link. When I click "new game" my redefined layout reappears (same as my saved version), only the link to new game vanishes and the name of the form changes. It's...puzzling, but not getting in my way. I read the appendix information about it, but that left me more confused.

I did notice from the appendix that there was some reference to boolean variables which included "form visibility". I'm assuming that part of the appendix is for folks who understanding moding and such, it's beyond me. Is there a setting within the game that I can change that will cause new windows I open to always appear definitively on top of everything and stay there until I dismiss them? After all, if I am issuing a command to open a new window it is probably because I want to use it (if you see what I mean...not trying to be snarky.) Are there times when you issue a command to open a window but you would NOT want it to be on top?


(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 63
RE: Need Help? Ask The Semi-Experts - 11/10/2013 7:36:41 PM   
Lingering Frey

 

Posts: 45
Joined: 2/16/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jglazier


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Grizzly

I am a complete WiF newbie. Where is the best place to start?

- Manuals?
- Video tutorials?
- In game tutorials?

And where to go from there?
warspite1

I am not a complete newb, but even so I would say the tutorials are a must. They take time to go through, but given the manuals don't seem to really tell you how to do things, I think the videos are invaluable.



The manuals don't really tell you how to do things? Well, this sounds like a big problem. I better start looking at the manuals to see what you mean, but their 500+ pages had better teach me how to do things in the game.


What software do you need to play the videos? They won't play on my computer.

(in reply to FroBodine)
Post #: 64
RE: Need Help? Ask The Semi-Experts - 11/10/2013 7:37:36 PM   
sanderz

 

Posts: 865
Joined: 1/8/2009
From: Devon, England
Status: offline
VLC or windows media player work for me

(in reply to Lingering Frey)
Post #: 65
RE: Need Help? Ask The Semi-Experts - 11/10/2013 7:38:51 PM   
okiemcguire


Posts: 153
Joined: 9/24/2012
From: Arizona
Status: offline
Lingering Frey,

Look in Players Manual 1, section 8.6 for screen layouts.

< Message edited by okiemcguire -- 11/10/2013 8:39:29 PM >


_____________________________

"Robur Ex Vigilantia," meaning "In Vigilance is Strength"


(in reply to Lingering Frey)
Post #: 66
RE: Need Help? Ask The Semi-Experts - 11/10/2013 7:39:01 PM   
bo

 

Posts: 4182
Joined: 5/1/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jglazier


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Grizzly

I am a complete WiF newbie. Where is the best place to start?

- Manuals?
- Video tutorials?
- In game tutorials?

And where to go from there?
warspite1

I am not a complete newb, but even so I would say the tutorials are a must. They take time to go through, but given the manuals don't seem to really tell you how to do things, I think the videos are invaluable.



The manuals don't really tell you how to do things? Well, this sounds like a big problem. I better start looking at the manuals to see what you mean, but their 500+ pages had better teach me how to do things in the game.


We are trying to be helpful jglazier, please try to stop taking everything literally, warspite is referring to, if he the poster cannot understand the manuals then go to the videos which are excellent, and the wording "had better teach me" by you is a little strong it seems to me. If you want help, we will be glad to help you in any way we can, but we are human and your attitude is important to us as to whether we are willing to help you or not. Be nice and we will be nice.

Bo

(in reply to FroBodine)
Post #: 67
RE: Need Help? Ask The Semi-Experts - 11/10/2013 7:43:09 PM   
Lingering Frey

 

Posts: 45
Joined: 2/16/2012
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I spoke too soon. Do I really need to move around the windows every time I shift to a different major power?

< Message edited by Lingering Frey -- 11/10/2013 8:43:15 PM >

(in reply to Lingering Frey)
Post #: 68
RE: Need Help? Ask The Semi-Experts - 11/10/2013 7:44:11 PM   
Lingering Frey

 

Posts: 45
Joined: 2/16/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sanderz

VLC or windows media player work for me


Windows Media Player (I have Vista) does not work for me.

(in reply to sanderz)
Post #: 69
RE: Need Help? Ask The Semi-Experts - 11/10/2013 7:44:12 PM   
HR2

 

Posts: 46
Joined: 5/14/2008
Status: offline
I have a question- Is it totally necessary to read the manual to play the game?

I just don't have the patient to read- anything (I might have finished one book in my 67 year life:) I did read some manuals back in the day with board games like SL,3R etc. (and the ensuing arguments:)

I've played GGWitE, SC global, etc with no rule reading and do very well due to my vast experience. Or at the least would skimming some important rules be enough?

I was trying to figure out if it's a total computer game minus the AI that would enforce the rules. I read above yes but bought the game it earlier today after hemming and hollering to find out myself:)

Of course I was going to buy it loving strategic games but will anxiously await the AI addon

< Message edited by HR2 -- 11/10/2013 8:45:07 PM >

(in reply to Neilster)
Post #: 70
RE: Need Help? Ask The Semi-Experts - 11/10/2013 7:44:51 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 42494
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lingering Frey

I spoke too soon. Do I really need to move around the windows every time I shift to a different major power?
warspite1

What do you mean "move around the windows" Lingering Frey?


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Lingering Frey)
Post #: 71
RE: Need Help? Ask The Semi-Experts - 11/10/2013 7:45:40 PM   
Centuur


Posts: 8454
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: HR2

I have a question- Is it totally necessary to read the manual to play the game?

I just don't have the patient to read- anything (n might have finished one book in my 67 year life:) I did read some manuals back in the day with board games like SL,3R etc. (and the ensuing arguments:)

I've played GGWitE, SC global, etc with no rule reading and do very well due to my vast experience. Or at the least would skimming some important rules be enough.

I was trying to figure out if it's a total computer game minus the AI that would enforce the rules. I read above yes but bought the game it earlier today after hemming and hollering to find out myself:)

Of course I was going to buy it loving strategic games but will anxiously await the AI addon


No, it isn't necessary to read the manual to play the game. Just start with the video's and the tutorials and after that dive into Barbarossa. However, there is advice on good play in the manuals...

_____________________________

Peter

(in reply to HR2)
Post #: 72
RE: Need Help? Ask The Semi-Experts - 11/10/2013 7:46:09 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 42494
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HR2

I have a question- Is it totally necessary to read the manual to play the game?

I just don't have the patient to read- anything (I might have finished one book in my 67 year life:) I did read some manuals back in the day with board games like SL,3R etc. (and the ensuing arguments:)

I've played GGWitE, SC global, etc with no rule reading and do very well due to my vast experience. Or at the least would skimming some important rules be enough?

I was trying to figure out if it's a total computer game minus the AI that would enforce the rules. I read above yes but bought the game it earlier today after hemming and hollering to find out myself:)

Of course I was going to buy it loving strategic games but will anxiously await the AI addon
warspite1

As a minimum you will need to look at the tutorials, but even then, that won't be sufficient to allow you to grasp all the rules. This is a complex game!

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 11/10/2013 8:56:53 PM >


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to HR2)
Post #: 73
RE: Need Help? Ask The Semi-Experts - 11/10/2013 7:57:49 PM   
Lingering Frey

 

Posts: 45
Joined: 2/16/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: okiemcguire

Lingering Frey,

Look in Players Manual 1, section 8.6 for screen layouts.


Ah, I hadn't found that. Thanks! Will start studying it.

(in reply to okiemcguire)
Post #: 74
RE: Need Help? Ask The Semi-Experts - 11/10/2013 7:58:09 PM   
Dr. Foo


Posts: 666
Joined: 8/31/2004
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline
I highly doubt I will read all of the manuals. I figure since I will only play solitaire I can stumble along and pick up some tricks here, especially by reading some ARR's. The video tutorials have a lot of useful information. I learn better from seeing anyway so the tutorials have been very helpful.

It's OK if I am an awful player if I'm just playing against myself. I've played TOAW since it first came out and I still haven't figure out how to get the most out of the combat round system.

_____________________________

*Warning: Dr. Foo is not an actual doctor.
Do not accept or follow any medical advice*

(in reply to HR2)
Post #: 75
RE: Need Help? Ask The Semi-Experts - 11/10/2013 7:59:54 PM   
Lingering Frey

 

Posts: 45
Joined: 2/16/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lingering Frey

I spoke too soon. Do I really need to move around the windows every time I shift to a different major power?
warspite1

What do you mean "move around the windows" Lingering Frey?



I've redefined a new screen layout. When I switch major powers, I have a windows changing position and vanishing.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 76
RE: Need Help? Ask The Semi-Experts - 11/10/2013 8:04:18 PM   
Gendarme

 

Posts: 50
Joined: 9/19/2006
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Status: offline
I am going to buy this game but I have a question first:

I am probably going to get a new computer possibly by Christmas, and I don't want to wait until then to buy Wif. So it will still be on my old machine. Is the game usable on more than one machine? If not, how will I transfer it over from the old to new computer?

Thanks.

Anthony DeChristopher

(in reply to Lingering Frey)
Post #: 77
RE: Need Help? Ask The Semi-Experts - 11/10/2013 8:13:58 PM   
bo

 

Posts: 4182
Joined: 5/1/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gendarme

I am going to buy this game but I have a question first:

I am probably going to get a new computer possibly by Christmas, and I don't want to wait until then to buy Wif. So it will still be on my old machine. Is the game usable on more than one machine? If not, how will I transfer it over from the old to new computer?

Thanks.

Anthony DeChristopher


Not positive I understand what you are saying but I wll try, if you buy the game, besides the free download if that is what you want to do [use the download option] You will recieve a hard disk [cd] with the game on it and I believe you will be able to load the game from the disk to your new computer. You can then transfer your saved games into your new computers MWIF files. I hope this helps you.

Bo

(in reply to Gendarme)
Post #: 78
RE: Need Help? Ask The Semi-Experts - 11/10/2013 8:14:34 PM   
FroBodine


Posts: 856
Joined: 5/5/2007
From: Brentwood, California (not the OJ one)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bo


quote:

ORIGINAL: jglazier


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Grizzly

I am a complete WiF newbie. Where is the best place to start?

- Manuals?
- Video tutorials?
- In game tutorials?

And where to go from there?
warspite1

I am not a complete newb, but even so I would say the tutorials are a must. They take time to go through, but given the manuals don't seem to really tell you how to do things, I think the videos are invaluable.



The manuals don't really tell you how to do things? Well, this sounds like a big problem. I better start looking at the manuals to see what you mean, but their 500+ pages had better teach me how to do things in the game.


We are trying to be helpful jglazier, please try to stop taking everything literally, warspite is referring to, if he the poster cannot understand the manuals then go to the videos which are excellent, and the wording "had better teach me" by you is a little strong it seems to me. If you want help, we will be glad to help you in any way we can, but we are human and your attitude is important to us as to whether we are willing to help you or not. Be nice and we will be nice.

Bo


Thank you, Bo, for putting me in my place. I'm serious, thank you. I'm not being sarcastic. I came off way too harsh in a moment of frustration. I have just seen way too many poorly written manuals that don't tell you anything about how to play their game, when I saw that comment it got me worried, like here we go again.

I have posted a lot of comments in this forum the past couple days, and I think I have always been kind. I don't like rude people, so I don't want to be one myself.

I certainly do want all your help as I learn this amazing game, so I will be more careful with my wording in the future.

Thank you!

(in reply to bo)
Post #: 79
RE: Need Help? Ask The Semi-Experts - 11/10/2013 8:16:39 PM   
Lingering Frey

 

Posts: 45
Joined: 2/16/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lingering Frey


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lingering Frey

I spoke too soon. Do I really need to move around the windows every time I shift to a different major power?
warspite1

What do you mean "move around the windows" Lingering Frey?



I've redefined a new screen layout. When I switch major powers, I have a windows changing position and vanishing.


I think I understand what is going on now after reading 8.6 a few times. Within the paragraph talking about the data fields stored within a type of computer file is a sentence (with an exclamation point) that says the Map View list form has to be individually redefined for every major power. The MV form was jumping under where I had moved other forms and other forms were simply closing each time I switched major powers.

I'm still not sure if I can get things to work right because I'm still very unclear about the "Add to list" functionality versus saving new forms versus redefining...but at least I know what my problem is now.

(in reply to Lingering Frey)
Post #: 80
RE: Need Help? Ask The Semi-Experts - 11/10/2013 8:32:00 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 21898
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jglazier


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Grizzly

I am a complete WiF newbie. Where is the best place to start?

- Manuals?
- Video tutorials?
- In game tutorials?

And where to go from there?
warspite1

I am not a complete newb, but even so I would say the tutorials are a must. They take time to go through, but given the manuals don't seem to really tell you how to do things, I think the videos are invaluable.



The manuals don't really tell you how to do things? Well, this sounds like a big problem. I better start looking at the manuals to see what you mean, but their 500+ pages had better teach me how to do things in the game.

It depends on your definition of How.

The manuals do cover everything, with instructions on all the menus and menu items, the full sequence of play, all the informational forms and all the 'decision' forms. For both kinds of forms, there are typically 3 subsections: back ground material from Rules as Coded, a description of the form's layout (the labels, buttons, maps, unit lists, and tables), and How to Use the Form. So, I would say that the manuals do tell you how to do things.

There is also a very long section (3.4) with advice from experienced players on what to do when and how to do it well (e.g., air movement & combat, naval movement & combat, armor, HQs, etc.). So in another sense of the word, the manuals tell you 'how' to play the game.

What the tutorial videos do is show you how to pick up and move units, amongst many other things. Clearly the manuals do not have a "watch, listen, and learn" aspect to them. That's most likely what Warspite means when he says the manuals do not teach you 'how'.

But maybe he means that it doesn't teach you how to play the game well. In that sense he is certainly correct. There is advice and many examples, but MWIF doesn't really attempt to teach you all the subtleties of playing well. Really, that depends on the scenario, the major power, the units in question, and optional rules, just to mention some of the more important things to take into consideration when playing.

My thoughts on this are that the aspects of the game related to making brilliant moves (or at least not making bad ones) is up to each player to learn on his own. Only so much can be spoon fed, before both the writer and the reader get annoyed with the level of detail.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to FroBodine)
Post #: 81
RE: Need Help? Ask The Semi-Experts - 11/10/2013 8:36:23 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 21898
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lingering Frey

Reducing the size of the detailed map seems like it will solve some of my issues. (I'm not sure what you meant by reducing the thickness of the border of the window. If that is something you can do separate from reducing the size of the window overall, I don't know how to do it.) One of the first things I have been doing when starting the game is making the map larger so that I can reduce the amount of scrolling around I have to do.

I just spent some time playing with the "Screen Layout" form since you mentioned the "Redefine" thing. I hadn't delved into the tiny box that said "New Game" in it, but which didn't do anything when you click on it. I'm still puzzled by why "Add to list" doesn't have any files to add. Not sure what that means. I have my new layout saved and "new game" appears below it as a link. When I click "new game" my redefined layout reappears (same as my saved version), only the link to new game vanishes and the name of the form changes. It's...puzzling, but not getting in my way. I read the appendix information about it, but that left me more confused.

I did notice from the appendix that there was some reference to boolean variables which included "form visibility". I'm assuming that part of the appendix is for folks who understanding moding and such, it's beyond me. Is there a setting within the game that I can change that will cause new windows I open to always appear definitively on top of everything and stay there until I dismiss them? After all, if I am issuing a command to open a new window it is probably because I want to use it (if you see what I mean...not trying to be snarky.) Are there times when you issue a command to open a window but you would NOT want it to be on top?



The appendix sections on User Created Files, are mostly technical information. A better place to learn about Screen Layouts is in section 8.6, which is devoted to that topic and is intended to help the player work with screen layouts.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Lingering Frey)
Post #: 82
RE: Need Help? Ask The Semi-Experts - 11/10/2013 8:38:33 PM   
FroBodine


Posts: 856
Joined: 5/5/2007
From: Brentwood, California (not the OJ one)
Status: offline
Thank you again, Steve, for your continued excellent responses. As long as the manuals and/or tutorials teach me how to use the user interface, how to move units, how to initiate attacks, both simple and complex ground attacks with air units, artillery, etc. included in the attack, then I will be happy. All the forms and screens can be figured out by reading the manuals, I'm sure.

I was just worried that the manual did not tell you how to move units to set up attacks, and how to resolve your attacks, detailed things like that.


(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 83
RE: Need Help? Ask The Semi-Experts - 11/10/2013 8:44:13 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 21898
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lingering Frey

I spoke too soon. Do I really need to move around the windows every time I shift to a different major power?

Probably not.

But sometimes a player may want to have different layouts for different major powers. China doesn't worry about naval operations. Japan wants a tight focus on China and the western Pacific. The Commonwealth needs to see the entire globe.

So, I wrote the code so screen layouts can be tailored for each major power. Now in practice, most players (especially when they start playing) wants the screen layout to be the same for all the major powers. They have enough to learn without having the location of stuff changing each time a major power changes.

The result is that you need to made any changes you want and use the Redefine menu item on the Screen Layouts list/form for each major power to make it part of the permanent memory (i.e., stored on disk) for the definition of the screen layout (.SLY) file.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Lingering Frey)
Post #: 84
RE: Need Help? Ask The Semi-Experts - 11/10/2013 8:44:45 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 42494
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets


quote:

ORIGINAL: jglazier


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Grizzly

I am a complete WiF newbie. Where is the best place to start?

- Manuals?
- Video tutorials?
- In game tutorials?

And where to go from there?
warspite1

I am not a complete newb, but even so I would say the tutorials are a must. They take time to go through, but given the manuals don't seem to really tell you how to do things, I think the videos are invaluable.



The manuals don't really tell you how to do things? Well, this sounds like a big problem. I better start looking at the manuals to see what you mean, but their 500+ pages had better teach me how to do things in the game.

It depends on your definition of How.

The manuals do cover everything, with instructions on all the menus and menu items, the full sequence of play, all the informational forms and all the 'decision' forms. For both kinds of forms, there are typically 3 subsections: back ground material from Rules as Coded, a description of the form's layout (the labels, buttons, maps, unit lists, and tables), and How to Use the Form. So, I would say that the manuals do tell you how to do things.

There is also a very long section (3.4) with advice from experienced players on what to do when and how to do it well (e.g., air movement & combat, naval movement & combat, armor, HQs, etc.). So in another sense of the word, the manuals tell you 'how' to play the game.

What the tutorial videos do is show you how to pick up and move units, amongst many other things. Clearly the manuals do not have a "watch, listen, and learn" aspect to them. That's most likely what Warspite means when he says the manuals do not teach you 'how'.

But maybe he means that it doesn't teach you how to play the game well. In that sense he is certainly correct. There is advice and many examples, but MWIF doesn't really attempt to teach you all the subtleties of playing well. Really, that depends on the scenario, the major power, the units in question, and optional rules, just to mention some of the more important things to take into consideration when playing.

My thoughts on this are that the aspects of the game related to making brilliant moves (or at least not making bad ones) is up to each player to learn on his own. Only so much can be spoon fed, before both the writer and the reader get annoyed with the level of detail.
warspite1

No, I am not particularly interested in a manual that teaches you the minutiae of how to play well (although I did like the players notes and tips that ADG included with the rules and scenarios).

The manuals comprehensively explain the rules - no problem there.

What they do not do - not that I can see anyway, is explain how physically you do things on the computer. For example, simple but vital things like how do you call up and lock certain forms.

Some people will probably get this - those who seem to find their way intuitively around computers - but that's not me and I have spent a lot of today trying to work out practical things like the above than actually play the game and reading the rules.


< Message edited by warspite1 -- 11/10/2013 9:51:24 PM >


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(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 85
RE: Need Help? Ask The Semi-Experts - 11/10/2013 8:50:38 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 21898
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HR2

I have a question- Is it totally necessary to read the manual to play the game?

I just don't have the patient to read- anything (I might have finished one book in my 67 year life:) I did read some manuals back in the day with board games like SL,3R etc. (and the ensuing arguments:)

I've played GGWitE, SC global, etc with no rule reading and do very well due to my vast experience. Or at the least would skimming some important rules be enough?

I was trying to figure out if it's a total computer game minus the AI that would enforce the rules. I read above yes but bought the game it earlier today after hemming and hollering to find out myself:)

Of course I was going to buy it loving strategic games but will anxiously await the AI addon

Not totally necessary. But partially necessary part of the time. It depends on what you can pick up from the other sources of information, e.g., tutorials of different flavors.

Probably a better solution to your preference to not reading all the manuals, lies in the fact that each of the forms and phases/subphases of the game have Help buttons, which display selected pages from the Players Manuals as context sensitive help. So if you come to a point where you have a question, a Help button will bring up pretty much the same information as the Players Manual has on the subject in question. That's more of a "read up on it when you need to" solution.

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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to HR2)
Post #: 86
RE: Need Help? Ask The Semi-Experts - 11/10/2013 8:50:59 PM   
FroBodine


Posts: 856
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That is mainly what I am talking about. Understanding the rules is one thing, and I'm sure the manuals do a more than excellent job of that.

Understanding how to actually do things with the user interface is a different animal altogether. This is what I hope to learn from the manuals and/or tutorials, and is what is often neglected in wargames manuals, unfortunately.

This is another reason why this community is so crucial to a game of this complexity, and I am glad you all are here to help us newbies figure things out.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 87
RE: Need Help? Ask The Semi-Experts - 11/10/2013 8:54:01 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 42494
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jglazier

That is mainly what I am talking about. Understanding the rules is one thing, and I'm sure the manuals do a more than excellent job of that.

Understanding how to actually do things with the user interface is a different animal altogether. This is what I hope to learn from the manuals and/or tutorials, and is what is often neglected in wargames manuals, unfortunately.

This is another reason why this community is so crucial to a game of this complexity, and I am glad you all are here to help us newbies figure things out.

warspite1

I have mentioned before that I hope this forum becomes similar to the WITP-AE forum which, in the main, is full of knowlegible and helpful people who are happy to assist newcomers.


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to FroBodine)
Post #: 88
RE: Need Help? Ask The Semi-Experts - 11/10/2013 8:54:12 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 21898
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gendarme

I am going to buy this game but I have a question first:

I am probably going to get a new computer possibly by Christmas, and I don't want to wait until then to buy Wif. So it will still be on my old machine. Is the game usable on more than one machine? If not, how will I transfer it over from the old to new computer?

Thanks.

Anthony DeChristopher

Not a problem. You can install the program on all the computers you own. But there is just one serial number - so just one user.

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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Gendarme)
Post #: 89
RE: Need Help? Ask The Semi-Experts - 11/10/2013 9:03:05 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 21898
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jglazier

Thank you again, Steve, for your continued excellent responses. As long as the manuals and/or tutorials teach me how to use the user interface, how to move units, how to initiate attacks, both simple and complex ground attacks with air units, artillery, etc. included in the attack, then I will be happy. All the forms and screens can be figured out by reading the manuals, I'm sure.

I was just worried that the manual did not tell you how to move units to set up attacks, and how to resolve your attacks, detailed things like that.



A few things might have slipped through the cracks in my writing the manuals but I am waaaaaay over to end of the "pays attention to details" scale.

I started writing the manuals years ago (December 2007), in many cases using what I wrote as specifications for writing the code. They have been reviewed by dozens of beta testers through the years as well as a professional editor hired by Matrix Games. When people ask "100 months to develop MWIF?"; "Who knows where the time goes?"; well, the answer to some degree lies in making the Players Manual meet my minimum standards for what a Players Manual should be.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to FroBodine)
Post #: 90
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