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RE: #1 Request to improve the AI: Fix Automated Explorers

 
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RE: #1 Request to improve the AI: Fix Automated Explorers - 12/4/2013 10:48:09 PM   
Lucian

 

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That's great news Elliot! It should also fix the problem where the Shakturi occasionally fail to show up because the beacon is never found.

Thanks very much. The fact that you guys are so good about listening to and acting on player feedback is what makes this game so great!


Edit: Just wondering, after they have explored the entire galaxy, will explorers still just sit around and do nothing? Because they might be better used in some sort of automated intel gathering role (especially in wartime) once exploration is no longer an issue. Might be too much of a change for a patch though...... I realize that.

< Message edited by Lucian -- 12/4/2013 11:53:23 PM >

(in reply to elliotg)
Post #: 31
RE: #1 Request to improve the AI: Fix Automated Explorers - 12/5/2013 7:56:05 AM   
hewwo

 

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Yes! Thanks Elliot, this was one was one that regularly annoyed me during playing :)

+1 on the automated intel gathering of explorers as well.

(in reply to Lucian)
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RE: #1 Request to improve the AI: Fix Automated Explorers - 12/5/2013 10:02:10 AM   
ASHBERY76


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The policy file has a tick box for intel gathering with explorers but it does not seem to work.

UseExplorationShipsToScoutEnemySystems

I do wonder how explorers get a free pass to spy anyway.I would class them a military ship.

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Post #: 33
RE: #1 Request to improve the AI: Fix Automated Explorers - 12/5/2013 3:53:48 PM   
Plant


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Very nice change!

Btw Ashbery76, if you tick that option, it works. They hyperdrive into enemy systems, thus revealing the entire system.

Sometimes several at the same time, into the same system as explorer ships have a tedency to gather on the top right corner of the map.

They don't get a free pass either. They get shot at, just like every other ship. They try to escape and go back for another go, ad infinitum.

I untick it personally as the sheer number of "your ships is under attack!" messages drowns out any other messages.

(in reply to ASHBERY76)
Post #: 34
RE: #1 Request to improve the AI: Fix Automated Explorers - 12/5/2013 4:50:45 PM   
ehsumrell1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucian

Edit: Just wondering, after they have explored the entire galaxy, will explorers still just sit around and do nothing? Because they might be better used in some sort of automated intel gathering role (especially in wartime) once exploration is no longer an issue. Might be too much of a change for a patch though...... I realize that.

Hi Lucian;

Normally in my games, I turn the explorers into a form of AWAC-type ship. I add an area weapon like the
Devastator Pulse and add the Long Range sensor component, Trace scanner and enough Energy Collectors to
power it all when stationary. I then strategically place them around my empire and near enemy systems
to be an extended early warning system.


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RE: #1 Request to improve the AI: Fix Automated Explorers - 12/5/2013 5:04:50 PM   
ASHBERY76


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When at war they get shot at but not at any other time.With an empire you have no treaty with they get a free pass spying.

< Message edited by ASHBERY76 -- 12/5/2013 6:06:18 PM >


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RE: #1 Request to improve the AI: Fix Automated Explorers - 12/5/2013 5:06:02 PM   
Darkspire


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quote:

I add an area weapon like the Devastator Pulse


Not worth the Dilithium to build them since the naysayers on here got them nerfed due to a total lack of game experience and knowledge to operate them with optimum efficiency. That goes for all the AOE weapons now, totally useless and not worth the resources to build them.

Darkspire

< Message edited by Darkspire -- 12/5/2013 6:09:54 PM >


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RE: #1 Request to improve the AI: Fix Automated Explorers - 12/5/2013 8:36:59 PM   
King Doom

 

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I would kill for a drag and tag option when telling explorers where to check. Just paint the sections of the map you want them to scan and off they go, no selecting them one by one and telling them to scan this sector, waiting for them to finish, setting them to scan again and hoping you notice when they refuel and cancel their mission halfway through.

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Post #: 38
RE: #1 Request to improve the AI: Fix Automated Explorers - 12/5/2013 11:50:07 PM   
Lucian

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ehsumrell1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucian

Edit: Just wondering, after they have explored the entire galaxy, will explorers still just sit around and do nothing? Because they might be better used in some sort of automated intel gathering role (especially in wartime) once exploration is no longer an issue. Might be too much of a change for a patch though...... I realize that.

Hi Lucian;

Normally in my games, I turn the explorers into a form of AWAC-type ship. I add an area weapon like the
Devastator Pulse and add the Long Range sensor component, Trace scanner and enough Energy Collectors to
power it all when stationary. I then strategically place them around my empire and near enemy systems
to be an extended early warning system.



That's a great strategy and one that I'm going to use myself, thanks :)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Plant

Very nice change!

Btw Ashbery76, if you tick that option, it works. They hyperdrive into enemy systems, thus revealing the entire system.

Sometimes several at the same time, into the same system as explorer ships have a tedency to gather on the top right corner of the map.

They don't get a free pass either. They get shot at, just like every other ship. They try to escape and go back for another go, ad infinitum.

I untick it personally as the sheer number of "your ships is under attack!" messages drowns out any other messages.


I didn't know about this. Question is though, once the entire galaxy is explored and the explorers go into their "sit around and do nothing" mode, do they *still* try to gather intelligence if the option is ticked or do they just do nothing?

If they don't sit around then there's no problem.

(in reply to ehsumrell1)
Post #: 39
RE: #1 Request to improve the AI: Fix Automated Explorers - 12/6/2013 1:34:59 AM   
drmario89

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucian

I didn't know about this. Question is though, once the entire galaxy is explored and the explorers go into their "sit around and do nothing" mode, do they *still* try to gather intelligence if the option is ticked or do they just do nothing?

If they don't sit around then there's no problem.


Unfortunately, it has been my experience that they continue to sit around and do nothing after the galaxy is explored. I have the option checked, but during a war they will still do nothing but sit there instead of scouting enemy systems for me. Maybe my explorers are just lazy or scared of getting shot at, I don't know.

(in reply to Lucian)
Post #: 40
RE: #1 Request to improve the AI: Fix Automated Explorers - 12/6/2013 6:02:06 AM   
ehsumrell1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darkspire

quote:

I add an area weapon like the Devastator Pulse


Not worth the Dilithium to build them since the naysayers on here got them nerfed due to a total lack of game experience and knowledge to operate them with optimum efficiency. That goes for all the AOE weapons now, totally useless and not worth the resources to build them.

Darkspire

If you notice from experimentation, I add the Devastator Pulse only as a defensive weapon for the
occasional Ardulus, Space Slug or Kaltor that it may come in contact with. Reason being, when an
area weapon is used against a space creature (Except SilverMists) the explorer is less likely to
switch to 'Escape' mode as quickly than if it has Beam or Torpedo weapons and gets attacked. Also
for some reason, Empires seem to be a bit more tolerant if an area weapon is the only weapon mounted.
Not sure if that's what Elliot's intention was, but from my experience that's the way it seems to work.
So again, in my opinion at least, it is worth using them in the way I described. But to each their own!


< Message edited by ehsumrell1 -- 12/6/2013 7:03:17 AM >


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RE: #1 Request to improve the AI: Fix Automated Explorers - 12/6/2013 6:09:50 AM   
ehsumrell1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

I do wonder how explorers get a free pass to spy anyway.I would class them a military ship.


It mainly depends if they are armed with a weapon or not. Similar to the troop transport.
From my testing and play experiences, an unarmed troop transport will have a better chance
of landing troops at a well defended colony (i.e. one with a Space Port) than an armed one.
I only put point defense weapons on my Troop Transports. The PD buys time against missiles
and fighters, but doesn't seem to draw priority attention from the Space Port.

_____________________________

Shields are useless in "The Briar Patch"...

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Post #: 42
RE: #1 Request to improve the AI: Fix Automated Explorers - 12/6/2013 8:06:04 AM   
sbach2o

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucian

[ discussion about option 'UseExplorationShipsToScoutEnemySystems' ]

I didn't know about this. Question is though, once the entire galaxy is explored and the explorers go into their "sit around and do nothing" mode, do they *still* try to gather intelligence if the option is ticked or do they just do nothing?

If they don't sit around then there's no problem.


Note, that the scouting of enemy systems means enemies in the sense that you are formally at war with them, not just 'alien' or 'rival'.

In previous versions of the game, this was what explorers did by default. When the galaxy wasn't yet explored, a portion of the explorer fleet was detracted from the main task in times of war. I expect (haven't tested, won't test because the results are irrelevant to me) that, when there is no more exploring to do, *all* automated explorers will flock to enemy systems in times of war, if this option is on.

I wasn't aware that an empire policy option regarding this has been introduced along the line (meaning that I didn't particularly notice this option, simply because its irrelevancy to me, since practically all of my explorers are on manual always, exceptions being just for research purposes).

I find this 'spying on enemies' almost entirely useless. It is better to outfit a few (or later all) explorers with long range scanners and position them strategically in deep space (or empty systems, where energy collectors will work).

< Message edited by sbach2o -- 12/6/2013 9:10:45 AM >

(in reply to Lucian)
Post #: 43
RE: #1 Request to improve the AI: Fix Automated Explorers - 12/6/2013 8:43:55 AM   
Icemania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: elliotg

Thanks for the feedback. In the next update exploration ships will check for uninvestigated ruins or galaxy locations once they have explored the entire galaxy.

Elliot



It's a step in the right direction (when combined with the AI building more explorers) but there remains much room for improvement ...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icemania
The fastest way to explore the galaxy and quickly find goodies is the "move to" command.

Early game for nearby systems I'll explore whole systems (approximately 1-1.5 sectors in a circle around my homeworld) until strategic supplies are completely in hand (the search for Chromium sometimes needs a little more effort) and a good chunk of luxuries.

However, after that, once an unexplored system is reached using "move to", I would only explore:
(a) Planets with Ruins
(b) Debris Fields (repairable ships, world destroyers)
(c) Planets that could have Super Luxuries (i.e. always certain types)

If nothing interesting then "move to" the next system.

Some may explore Colonisable Planets but I tend to leave them until a second wave (unless they are nearby).

This massively decreases the time required to find targets of strategic interest, which provide significant benefits to a growing empire ... as compared to exploring every useless ball of rock and gas giant in existence etc. A large fleet is far faster in achieving this than a small fleet.

The problem with this is that it's really intensive on the micro to the point where I have not played the game in a while now as it dominates the mid-game ... and I have no interest in playing the game with the current Explorer Automation.

One option for the developer would be adding an "Explore Specials" type command which would focus on (a), (b) and (c) above only. This would decrease the micro on manual a lot.

Ideally though an improved AI adopting some of these principles would be beneficial i.e. once more than a certain distance from your territory, Explorer Automation would focus on Specials ... and explore the rest later.

With the approach above I almost always find the most interesting goodies first even on Extreme Difficulty. An improved Explorer AI would lead to a feeling of competition for the galaxies spoils.





< Message edited by Icemania -- 12/6/2013 9:45:49 AM >

(in reply to elliotg)
Post #: 44
RE: #1 Request to improve the AI: Fix Automated Explorers - 12/6/2013 3:27:00 PM   
Plant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucian

I didn't know about this. Question is though, once the entire galaxy is explored and the explorers go into their "sit around and do nothing" mode, do they *still* try to gather intelligence if the option is ticked or do they just do nothing?

If they don't sit around then there's no problem.
As sbach2o says, they go and scout when you are formally at war with them. So if you aren't at war with an empires, they tend to gather at a corner of the universe and do nothing.


quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

When at war they get shot at but not at any other time.With an empire you have no treaty with they get a free pass spying.
See above. At any other time, they won't be spying. I think we solved the problem of why exploration ships don't seem to work for you.

Unless you are arguing that all empires that you don't have friendly relationships with, should shoot at all your ships automatically when they are in their systems, but that would be another discussion altogether.



< Message edited by Plant -- 12/6/2013 4:28:34 PM >

(in reply to ASHBERY76)
Post #: 45
RE: #1 Request to improve the AI: Fix Automated Explorers - 12/6/2013 3:49:56 PM   
ASHBERY76


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When I can see the planets whole defence and fleet make up on the fly while my explorer sits for years is spying and the A.I should tell you to piss off or shoot.

The game not recognising that is a gameplay code issue and another matter like you say.

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Post #: 46
RE: #1 Request to improve the AI: Fix Automated Explorers - 12/7/2013 4:12:03 PM   
Plant


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Ships not getting attacked isn't specific to explorers. You can ask any ship you control to do this.

Explorers wouldn't automatically sit in a system unless you are at war with them. And if you are a war with them, they will be attacked.


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Post #: 47
RE: #1 Request to improve the AI: Fix Automated Explorers - 12/8/2013 11:12:53 AM   
adecoy95


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quote:

ORIGINAL: elliotg

Thanks for the feedback. In the next update exploration ships will check for uninvestigated ruins or galaxy locations once they have explored the entire galaxy.

Elliot



cool :)

(in reply to elliotg)
Post #: 48
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