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RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests

 
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RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 10/31/2013 3:39:52 PM   
.Sirius


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Noted
quote:

ORIGINAL: fool12342000

Avenger of Royal Navy has agility 3.
Other TBM in CWDB has 2.



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Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations
Cold War Data Base 1946-1979 Author

Old radar men never die - Their echoes fade away in accordance with the inverse fourth power law

(in reply to e2204588)
Post #: 91
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 10/31/2013 3:40:50 PM   
.Sirius


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Noted
quote:

ORIGINAL: markadmiral

Aloha,

There are two scenarios I would like to start working on. These are Paracels (Xisha) 1974 - this pits four Republic of Vietnamese ships versus 4-6 PLA Navy ships. All PLA Navy ships are in the database, but there was one EDSALL class (DE) and two BARNETGAT class small seapolane tenders (recast as patrol craft) in the fight. The other battle I am considering is the 06 Aug 1965 Battle of Shantou, where two ROCN subchasers were sunk by the PLA Navy. They were trying to land agent provocatuers to take advantage of the chaos in the PRC as the Cultural Revolution gathered steam. Didn't work out so well. This would be a good cat and mouse scenario with the KMT trying to sneak in at night to the coast and the PLAN trying to guess where they will land. The ships I would for both need are:

RVN Edsall DE (3 x 3"/50 guns)•
2 × 40 mm AA guns (1 × 2)
• 8 × 20 mm AA guns (8 × 1)
• 3 × 21 in (530 mm) torpedo tubes (1 × 3) (U.S. advisors did not provide torps)
• 8 × depth charge projectors
• 1 × depth charge projector (hedgehog)
• 2 × depth charge tracks


RVN Barnegat PF (1 X 5"/38; 2 x 81mm mortars)

TWN/ROCN PC-461 class (290 tons)
Armament: 1 3"/50, 1 40mm, 4 20mm, depth charges, hedgehog (estimate)

I've got some stats (not sure how reliable they are)

Thanks,

Mark



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Paul aka Sirius
Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations
Cold War Data Base 1946-1979 Author

Old radar men never die - Their echoes fade away in accordance with the inverse fourth power law

(in reply to Grackle)
Post #: 92
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 10/31/2013 3:41:28 PM   
.Sirius


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Noted
quote:

ORIGINAL: fool12342000

>>06 Aug 1965 Battle of Shantou, where two ROCN subchasers were sunk by the PLA Navy.

Two ships are
PCE-45 Chien Men (ex-AM-387 Toucan, Auk class)
PC-118 Chang Chiang (ex-PC-1232, PC-461 Class)




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Paul aka Sirius
Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations
Cold War Data Base 1946-1979 Author

Old radar men never die - Their echoes fade away in accordance with the inverse fourth power law

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Post #: 93
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 10/31/2013 6:31:50 PM   
e2204588

 

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According to
http://orbat.com/site/history/historical/isreal/suezsinai1956airorbat.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloster_Meteor

Egypt, Syria and Israel used Meteor NF Mk13, not Mk14.

(in reply to .Sirius)
Post #: 94
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 10/31/2013 7:10:30 PM   
e2204588

 

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Hunter F.1 / F.2 / F.4 / F.6 should be fighter instead of attacker.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawker_Hunter_variants

Meteor TT.20 should be target towing instead of EW
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloster_Meteor#Variants

Sea Hawk F.1 / F.2 should be fighter instead of attacker.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawker_Sea_Hawk#Variants

(in reply to e2204588)
Post #: 95
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 10/31/2013 7:48:33 PM   
.Sirius


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Noted
quote:

ORIGINAL: fool12342000

According to
http://orbat.com/site/history/historical/isreal/suezsinai1956airorbat.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloster_Meteor

Egypt, Syria and Israel used Meteor NF Mk13, not Mk14.



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Paul aka Sirius
Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations
Cold War Data Base 1946-1979 Author

Old radar men never die - Their echoes fade away in accordance with the inverse fourth power law

(in reply to e2204588)
Post #: 96
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 10/31/2013 7:49:18 PM   
.Sirius


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Noted
quote:

ORIGINAL: fool12342000

Hunter F.1 / F.2 / F.4 / F.6 should be fighter instead of attacker.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawker_Hunter_variants

Meteor TT.20 should be target towing instead of EW
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloster_Meteor#Variants

Sea Hawk F.1 / F.2 should be fighter instead of attacker.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawker_Sea_Hawk#Variants


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Paul aka Sirius
Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations
Cold War Data Base 1946-1979 Author

Old radar men never die - Their echoes fade away in accordance with the inverse fourth power law

(in reply to e2204588)
Post #: 97
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 11/1/2013 2:56:40 AM   
RoryAndersonWS


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Hey Sirius,

I'm planning to do an episode focusing on the 1950s, early early 1960s using the CWDB, I was wondering if there was anything particular you would like me to showcase? Anything in the CWDB you are particularly passionate about.

I've been playing almost exclusively DB3000 till about a week and a half ago when I realize that "F-22s destroying everything in their path" while realistic isn't really as much fun as 12 F-102A firing a volley of Genie rockets at a large soviet bomber formation!

Plus since the era doesn't have as many sensors per platform the game runs faster with 800+ units in the air!



< Message edited by Baloogan -- 11/1/2013 3:38:12 AM >


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Post #: 98
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 11/2/2013 6:18:15 AM   
e2204588

 

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P38L's max speed should be 360kt instead of 461kt.
http://www.aero-web.org/specs/lockheed/p-38l.htm
http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=495

According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_P-38_Lightning#Specifications_.28P-38L.29
Its weapon is 1× Hispano M2 20 mm cannon with 150 rounds
But currently, it has 20 x 20mm Hispano Mk5 x 2 Burst [50 rnds] -> 20 x 50 = 1000 rounds.
Should it be 6 x 20mm Hispano Mk5 x1 Burst [25 rnds] ?

(in reply to RoryAndersonWS)
Post #: 99
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 11/2/2013 6:52:25 AM   
e2204588

 

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P-47D's max speed should be 376kt instead of 420kt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_P-47_Thunderbolt#Specifications_.28P-47D_Thunderbolt.29
Or 364kt according to
http://www.aero-web.org/specs/republic/p-47d.htm

Currently, its weapon is 2 x 50 Cal Quad with 20 x 12.7mm/50 MG Burst[10 rnds] -> 2 x 20 x 10 = 400 rounds

Should it be 17 x 12.7mm/50 MG x 4 Burst [100 rnds] per mount ?
(17 x 100 x 2 = 3400 rounds)

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Post #: 100
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 11/2/2013 7:32:40 AM   
e2204588

 

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B-25D and B-25J-20
Max speed should be 236kt instead of 258kt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_B-25_Mitchell
http://www.daveswarbirds.com/usplanes/aircraft/mitchell.htm

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Post #: 101
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 11/2/2013 9:41:42 AM   
e2204588

 

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F-82G's max speed should be 400kt instead of 461kt
Its radar shoud be SCR-720C instead of AN/APS-19
http://www.joebaugher.com/usaf_fighters/p82_8.html

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Post #: 102
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 11/2/2013 1:52:48 PM   
e2204588

 

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mk_4/Mk_40_Folding-Fin_Aerial_Rocket

Currently, anit-air rocket like Microcell 2-inch or Mk4 Mighty Mouse have high AirPok (50%) per round.
For aircraft like F-89D has 104 Mighty Mouse rockets, anti-air rockets are too efficient.
Maybe it should be changed to fire in volley?

(in reply to .Sirius)
Post #: 103
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 11/2/2013 6:43:57 PM   
Mgellis


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Requested platforms...

ARMED versions of the following ships (already in database):
13-m Motor Yacht
38-m Motor Yacht
23-m Fishing Boat
35-m Fishing Boat
800-ton Trawler
1250-ton Large Trawler
Commercial Tugboat

Basically, just add a 7 mm. machine gun. These would allow designers to simulate rebels, police boats, pirates, terrorists, drug runners, etc. This way there will be a version in the database and the weapon mount won't disappear every time there is a database rebuild (which I think is what happens if you just make a custom version by adding a weapon mount in the scenario editor).

Thanks.



< Message edited by Mgellis -- 11/2/2013 6:44:45 PM >

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Post #: 104
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 11/2/2013 10:03:33 PM   
MR_BURNS2


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Why don't you simply add a weapon mount in the editor?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mgellis

Requested platforms...

ARMED versions of the following ships (already in database):
13-m Motor Yacht
38-m Motor Yacht
23-m Fishing Boat
35-m Fishing Boat
800-ton Trawler
1250-ton Large Trawler
Commercial Tugboat

Basically, just add a 7 mm. machine gun. These would allow designers to simulate rebels, police boats, pirates, terrorists, drug runners, etc. This way there will be a version in the database and the weapon mount won't disappear every time there is a database rebuild (which I think is what happens if you just make a custom version by adding a weapon mount in the scenario editor).

Thanks.





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Post #: 105
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 11/4/2013 1:30:19 AM   
e2204588

 

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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aglj4LO3uHBqdHpVU2JHOWdaRWw4QXlFTFo3Uld5Ymc&usp=drive_web#gid=0

Issues are marked with color. Thanks!

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Post #: 106
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 11/4/2013 5:16:28 AM   
Mgellis


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MR_BURNS2

Why don't you simply add a weapon mount in the editor?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mgellis

Requested platforms...

ARMED versions of the following ships (already in database):
13-m Motor Yacht
38-m Motor Yacht
23-m Fishing Boat
35-m Fishing Boat
800-ton Trawler
1250-ton Large Trawler
Commercial Tugboat

Basically, just add a 7 mm. machine gun. These would allow designers to simulate rebels, police boats, pirates, terrorists, drug runners, etc. This way there will be a version in the database and the weapon mount won't disappear every time there is a database rebuild (which I think is what happens if you just make a custom version by adding a weapon mount in the scenario editor).

Thanks.






At the time I made the request, I was still figuring out that you can do that, and use the Template generator to make it stick...I thought a database update would wipe it the new version of the ship. Now I know you can set it up that way, too. (In fact, that's how I got the armed trawler in "Annaba Constant.") Of course, it wouldn't hurt to have generic armed versions in the database, ready to use, too. That would be more convenient for some people. But the fact that you can do it yourself probably makes it a lower priority.


< Message edited by Mgellis -- 11/4/2013 5:17:46 AM >

(in reply to MR_BURNS2)
Post #: 107
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 11/4/2013 2:46:07 PM   
JCR

 

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MM Guiseppe Garibaldi in both original 6" gun cruiser and Terrier/135/Polaris conversion
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_cruiser_Giuseppe_Garibaldi_%281936%29
:)

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Post #: 108
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 11/4/2013 3:30:01 PM   
e2204588

 

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Velocity_Aircraft_Rocket
Rocket in F-51's loadout should be HVAR.

(in reply to JCR)
Post #: 109
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 11/4/2013 5:49:01 PM   
MR_BURNS2


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English Electric Lightning.

Lightning F.1

Engines: Two 14,430 lb (reheat) Rolls-Royce Avon 200R
Fuel Capacity: 950 imp gal (700 gal internal + 250 gal in small ventral tank)
Empty Weight: 25,753 lb
Radar: Ferranti AI.23 radar
Armament: Two 30mm cannon plus two Firestreak AAMs
The F.1 had NO refueling probe!

Lightning F.1A

Engines: Two 14,430 lb (reheat) Rolls-Royce Avon 210R
Fuel Capacity: 950 imp gal
Empty Weight: 25,737 lb
Radar: Ferranti AI.23 radar
Armament: Two 30mm cannon plus two Firestreak AAMs

Lightning F.2

Engines: Two 14,430 lb (reheat) Rolls-Royce Avon 210R
Fuel Capacity: 950 imp gal
Empty Weight: 27,000 lb
Radar: Ferranti AI.23 radar
Armament: Two 30mm cannon plus two Firestreak AAMs

Lightning F.2A

Engines: Two 14,430 lb (reheat) Rolls-Royce Avon 210R
Fuel Capacity: 1326 imp gal (716 gal internal + 610 gal in large ventral tank)
Empty Weight: 28,000 lb ?
Radar: Ferranti AI.23 radar
Armament: Two 30mm cannon plus two Firestreak AAMs

Lightning F.3

Engines: Two 12,690 lb (16,360 lb reheat) Rolls-Royce Avon 301R (higher fuel consumption)
Fuel Capacity: 950 imp gal
Empty Weight: 26,906 lb
Radar: Ferranti AI.23B radar
Armament: Two Firestreak AAMs or two Red Top AAMs

Lightning F.3A

Engines: Two 12,690 lb (16,360 lb reheat) Rolls-Royce Avon 301R
Fuel Capacity: 1326 imp gal (716 gal internal + 610 gal in large ventral tank)
Empty Weight: 28,041 lb
Max takeoff weight: 41,700 lb
Radar: Ferranti AI.23B radar
Armament: Two Firestreak AAMs or two Red Top AAMs

Lightning F.6

Engines: Two 12,690 lb (16,360 lb reheat) Rolls-Royce Avon 301R
Fuel Capacity: 1251 imp gal (716 gal internal + 535 gal in large ventral tank) with ventral gunpack
or 1326 imp gal (716 gal internal + 610 gal in large ventral tank) w/o ventral gunpack
Empty Weight: 28,041 lb
Max takeoff weight: 41,700 lb (45,750 lb with wingtanks ?)
Radar: Ferranti AI.23B radar
Armament: Two 30mm cannon plus two Firestreak AAMs or two Red Top AAMs, or two 260 gal fixed overwing tanks for increased ferry range.

Lightning F.53 (Export version for Kuwait and Saudi Arabia)

Engines: Two Rolls-Royce Avon 302C
Fuel Capacity: 1251 imp gal (716 gal internal + 535 gal in large ventral tank) with ventral gunpack
or 1326 imp gal (716 gal internal + 610 gal in large ventral tank) w/o ventral gunpack
Empty Weight: Similar to F.6
Max takeoff weight: Similar to F.6
Radar: Ferranti AI.23B radar
Armament:
Forward fuselage: two Firestreak missiles, two Red Top missiles, twin retractable launchers for 44× 2-inch rockets, or a reconnaissance pod fitted with five 70 mm Type 360 Vinten cameras.
Outer Wing stations: two 1,000 lb bombs or two or four SNEB rocket pods ( 18 68 mm rockets each).
two 260 gal fixed overwing tanks for ferry mission.

Notes:
F.1 had no refueling probe, later versions had them.
Rolls-Royce Avon 301R had a higher fuel consumption, therefore F.3 had shortest internal fuel range, successors had more internal fuel. F.2A had longest range.
I thought they would have equipped all F.6 and F.53 with guns, however online pictures suggest otherwise.
Firestreak saw limited service until ligtnings were retired, even on aircraft that could carry the newer Red Top.
Only F.6 and F.53 models could carry overwing tanks, according to pilots they used them on ferry missions only, never on operations.
For F.53 overwing combined rocket pod/fuel tanks were marketed and there are pictures of static displays, but i doubt they were ever used operationally since there is no evidence.
Empty weight above is without fuel and ammo etc., for wikipedia data empty weight is loaded aircraft but without fuel.
F.1 had an option to use 48(?) two inch air-to-air rockets instead of Firestreaks, but i don't know if they were used operationally, probably not.

I scrounged this data together from various sources, a lot of it seems to have valid references.
If someone has better data please do share!

Suggested loadouts:

F.1 - F.2A: two Firestreak AAMs(+ internal guns), Internal Guns only.
F.3/ F.3A: two Firestreak, two Redtop.
F.6: two Firestreak with ventral gunpack/535 gal tank,two Redtop with ventral gunpack/535 gal tank,
two Firestreak with ventral 610 gal tank(no guns),two Redtop with ventral 610 gal tank(no guns),
Internal guns-ventral gunpack/535 gal tank only, Ferry loadout-two 260 gal overwing tanks.
F.53: same as F.6 plus: reconnaissance pod and ventral gunpack/535 gal tank,
Rockets light - two SNEB rocket pods + internal 44× 2-inch rockets + ventral gunpack/535 gal tank,
Rockets heavy - four SNEB rocket pods + internal 44× 2-inch rockets + ventral gunpack/535 gal tank,
Bombs - 2 1000 lbs bombs + internal 44× 2-inch rockets + ventral gunpack/535 gal tank,

One could also use AA missiles instead of internal 44× 2-inch rockets for the A-G loadouts, but there may already be too many loadout suggestions.


Links/sources:

The Lightning Boys

http://www.thunder-and-lightnings.co.uk/lightning/history.php

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Electric_Lightning

http://www.spyflight.co.uk/ee-bac%20lightning%20f.53.htm

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/40/English_Electric_Lightning_F53_AN0285224.jpg

http://www.flightglobal.com/airspace/media/militaryaviation1946-2006cutaways/images/10807/english-electric-lightning-f53-cutaway.jpg

< Message edited by MR_BURNS2 -- 11/4/2013 6:55:06 PM >


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Post #: 110
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 11/5/2013 9:22:08 PM   
JCR

 

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Some small ;) error.
The Mk12 nuke has a 12 Megaton warhead, while in reality it had a 12 kiloton warhead ;)

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Post #: 111
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 11/5/2013 10:24:38 PM   
RoryAndersonWS


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Awwwwwwwwwwwwww

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Post #: 112
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 11/5/2013 10:36:48 PM   
MR_BURNS2


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After trying to low level bomb things with un delayed 5 MT bombs i would love that little one

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Post #: 113
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 11/5/2013 11:30:00 PM   
Broncepulido

 

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A very interesting source for official US aircraft characteristics, the Standard Aircraft Characteristics (SAC) charts present at Alternate Wars:
http://www.alternatewars.com/SAC/SAC.htm

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Post #: 114
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 11/6/2013 12:15:52 AM   
.Sirius


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Updated for the next db release and yeah I'm still up as duty tonight
quote:

ORIGINAL: JC

Some small ;) error.
The Mk12 nuke has a 12 Megaton warhead, while in reality it had a 12 kiloton warhead ;)


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Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations
Cold War Data Base 1946-1979 Author

Old radar men never die - Their echoes fade away in accordance with the inverse fourth power law

(in reply to JCR)
Post #: 115
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 11/6/2013 12:37:23 AM   
MR_BURNS2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Broncepulido

A very interesting source for official US aircraft characteristics, the Standard Aircraft Characteristics (SAC) charts present at Alternate Wars:
http://www.alternatewars.com/SAC/SAC.htm


Thanks! We were talking about B-47 performance in another thread.




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Post #: 116
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 11/6/2013 12:37:49 AM   
MR_BURNS2


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English Electric Canberra:

From Wikipedia:

quote:

RAF Germany's force of four squadrons equipped with the B(I)6 and B(I)8 could carry US-owned Mark 7 nuclear bombs


The author of A Bucket of Sunshine concurs, he further states that they replaced the Mk7 with B-61 laydown bombs in 1966, that is for the Canberra B(I)8.
Wikipedia also states that RAF Germany used B-41 as well.

I suggest adding Mark-7, B-43 and B-61 Strategic Bombs to EE Canberra B(I)6 and B(I)8. I don´t know about the other Canberra types, but these were under SACEUR Command and definitely used these US nuke´s.

Btw. have you ever considered implementing different yields of nuclear bombs for those who had the option?

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(in reply to MR_BURNS2)
Post #: 117
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 11/6/2013 12:44:27 AM   
.Sirius


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Hi thanks will update the Canberra loadout and work on yeilds for the nule loadouts
quote:

ORIGINAL: MR_BURNS2

English Electric Canberra:

From Wikipedia:

quote:

RAF Germany's force of four squadrons equipped with the B(I)6 and B(I)8 could carry US-owned Mark 7 nuclear bombs


The author of A Bucket of Sunshine concurs, he further states that they replaced the Mk7 with B-61 laydown bombs in 1966, that is for the Canberra B(I)8.
Wikipedia also states that RAF Germany used B-41 as well.

I suggest adding Mark-7, B-43 and B-61 Strategic Bombs to EE Canberra B(I)6 and B(I)8. I don´t know about the other Canberra types, but these were under SACEUR Command and definitely used these US nuke´s.

Btw. have you ever considered implementing different yields of nuclear bombs for those who had the option?


_____________________________

Paul aka Sirius
Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations
Cold War Data Base 1946-1979 Author

Old radar men never die - Their echoes fade away in accordance with the inverse fourth power law

(in reply to MR_BURNS2)
Post #: 118
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 11/6/2013 1:28:44 AM   
MR_BURNS2


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Thanks! You have typos in several Canberra loadouts, loadout name says 3-inch Rockets while the actual loadout is SNEB 68mm Rockets.

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Post #: 119
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 11/6/2013 11:43:38 AM   
JCR

 

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Might be a superstupid nitpick but right now all US planes use Mk xy series of supersonic bombs which were only introduced in the 50s.
For WW2 props etc there should be AN series of WW2 era bombs :D

(in reply to MR_BURNS2)
Post #: 120
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