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Found something that needs fixed ASAP - 10/10/2013 3:27:26 PM   
SSN754planker


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I was in the scenario editor last night and stumbled upon something that needs attention. It is pretty easy to duplicate so please try this out yourself. Here is what i did....

1. Plop down a Oliver Hazard Perry frigate.
2. Go to edit aircraft to add aircraft to the frigate.
3. Select any A-4 Skyhawk. See what happens. You can even put TWO skyhawks on a perry class.

I suspect this is a bug that has carried over from Harpoon, since i remember something similar happening over there too. But can this be fixed. Is there a way to restrict the edit aircraft list to just helicopters for ships that only carry helicopters?


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RE: Found something that needs fixed ASAP - 10/10/2013 3:30:48 PM   
Primarchx


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Those A-4s might even take off, ONCE...

But seriously I haven't seen a CARRIER-CAPABLE DB tag or the like to show which aircraft are suitable for that. Player knowledge is required.

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RE: Found something that needs fixed ASAP - 10/10/2013 3:43:09 PM   
thewood1

 

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You theoretically put an A-4 on a frigate with helo capabilites...with a crane. Just can't do anything with it.

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RE: Found something that needs fixed ASAP - 10/10/2013 4:05:51 PM   
SSN754planker


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from a little digging i am reading that this has to do with the size of the aircraft in the database. But surely there can be some type of flag that makes a ship only able to carry helicopters.

The "theoretical" stuff is not an excuse. We all want this to be the most realistic simulator we can get our hands on without having a Q clearance.

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RE: Found something that needs fixed ASAP - 10/10/2013 4:09:49 PM   
ExMachina


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quote:

from a little digging i am reading that this has to do with the size of the aircraft in the database. But surely there can be some type of flag that makes a ship only able to carry helicopters.

The "theoretical" stuff is not an excuse. We all want this to be the most realistic simulator we can get our hands on without having a Q clearance.


Actually, isn't it is more "realistic" to model the hanger space as space? If your captain wants to waste it by putting non-functional, multi-million dollar aircraft in it, then that's his call !

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RE: Found something that needs fixed ASAP - 10/10/2013 4:20:05 PM   
SSN754planker


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You show me where operationally where a US Navy Oliver hazard Perry left port with 2 A-4 Skyhawks on board, then ill shut up about realism. This is about a shortcoming in the db. a simple flag that says "helicopters only" needs to be added to these ships. If you guys want to put a-4's on the frigate, then have it so the "helis only" flag can be shut off. Some one who is playing this game and doesnt have an encyclopedic knowledge of what aircraft type went on a OHP frigate (or any other ship for that matter) might make this mistake.

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RE: Found something that needs fixed ASAP - 10/10/2013 4:33:23 PM   
mattpenfold

 

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H
quote:

ORIGINAL: SSN754planker

You show me where operationally where a US Navy Oliver hazard Perry left port with 2 A-4 Skyhawks on board, then ill shut up about realism. This is about a shortcoming in the db. a simple flag that says "helicopters only" needs to be added to these ships. If you guys want to put a-4's on the frigate, then have it so the "helis only" flag can be shut off. Some one who is playing this game and doesnt have an encyclopedic knowledge of what aircraft type went on a OHP frigate (or any other ship for that matter) might make this mistake.


Why not show us all how this is a problem that needs to be fixed ASAP ?

What scenario were you playing when you landed some A4s on a frigate ? Or point to a scenario where a frigate starts of with some A4s on its deck ?

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RE: Found something that needs fixed ASAP - 10/10/2013 4:37:23 PM   
mattpenfold

 

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And a little thought would cause one to realise it is not as simple as a flag to allow helicopters only. How about being able have a VTOL capable aircraft land on a helicopter flight deck ?

And at some point the scenario designer is expected to use their common sense. As is the player. It seems that you for some reason will not.

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RE: Found something that needs fixed ASAP - 10/10/2013 4:40:15 PM   
SSN754planker


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I wasnt playing a scenario....i was in the scenario creator. All i did is plop down a OHP frigate and put 2 a-4 skyhawks on it.

In the interest of realism why cant there be a flag that says "Helicopters only" for ships that only use helis?

Wouldn't this make it easier and faster to build scenarios, especially for countries where you were not familiar with all the equiptment?

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RE: Found something that needs fixed ASAP - 10/10/2013 4:45:04 PM   
mattpenfold

 

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quote:

I wasnt playing a scenario....i was in the scenario creator. All i did is plop down a OHP frigate and put 2 a-4 skyhawks on it.


So you did something silly, and somehow it is someone else's fault ?

Why is this such an urgent problem ? How you just don't put non VTOL aircraft on a frigate that only has a small helicopter flight deck ?

Oh, and the bug cannot have carried over from Harpoon, since Command does not use Harpoon code.

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RE: Found something that needs fixed ASAP - 10/10/2013 4:55:45 PM   
SSN754planker


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All I did was point something out that could use some improvement. And i get jumped on for it. Nice.

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RE: Found something that needs fixed ASAP - 10/10/2013 4:59:38 PM   
mattpenfold

 

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I agree it is something that needs to be looked at, but it is not an issue that needs to fixed ASAP as you demanded. And further, your fix would have actually broken things for people wanting to play around with aircraft with VTOL capabilities.

Bug fixes are generally assigned a priority, and despite your insistence otherwise, this would seem to be a very low priority.

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RE: Found something that needs fixed ASAP - 10/10/2013 5:07:48 PM   
smudge56

 

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I have to agree all ssn754planker was doing was pointing out a issue. You then jump all over him about how he's described the problem. All this will do is put people off asking or raising issues and questions.

Not everyone is an expert orn modern military units, so some may be experimenting with the database and do exactly the same thing. Assuming well it let me do that so it must be right.

Please dont make people feel put off for raising or asking question.



quote:

ORIGINAL: SSN754planker

All I did was point something out that could use some improvement. And i get jumped on for it. Nice.



< Message edited by Blighty56 -- 10/10/2013 5:49:06 PM >

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RE: Found something that needs fixed ASAP - 10/10/2013 5:37:19 PM   
mattpenfold

 

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Deleted.

< Message edited by mattpenfold -- 10/10/2013 5:40:03 PM >

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RE: Found something that needs fixed ASAP - 10/10/2013 5:50:58 PM   
wodin


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I think it needs to be fixed at some point. Not everyone has the knowledge to know any better and at the moment the game expects players to know these things. Not newbie friendly.

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RE: Found something that needs fixed ASAP - 10/10/2013 5:59:19 PM   
smudge56

 

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Thanks wodin.

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RE: Found something that needs fixed ASAP - 10/10/2013 6:25:48 PM   
SSN754planker


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The reason i said "ASAP" in the title to this post was because i was very frustrated trying to create a scenario last night, with two navies that i wasn't very familiar with their equipment. It was extremely taxing to try to find out the "correct" helicopter to go with a ship.

Dont get me wrong. I absolutely LOVE this game. I want it to get better. All it needs are some finishing touches.

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RE: Found something that needs fixed ASAP - 10/10/2013 6:38:24 PM   
Der Zeitgeist


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It would be nice if we could get some sort of "standard" aircraft complements for different ships. So a frigate would have certain type of helicopter as well as munitions like torpedos in its default loadout. A carrier would by default carry a number or airplanes in its air wing, corresponding to different timeframes.

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RE: Found something that needs fixed ASAP - 10/10/2013 6:38:30 PM   
thewood1

 

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This is a scenario design issue as far as I am concerned. There are always things in scenario editors you can do but shouldn't. Maximum flexibility is better than limited options. But with great power comes great responsibility to know what the heck you are doing.

The OP came across that devs should drop everything they are doing and fix this...that is the issue beyond knowing what you are doing in the editor.

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RE: Found something that needs fixed ASAP - 10/10/2013 7:00:36 PM   
Juramentado

 

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Given that this is a flag that is really only visible or accessible in the Scenario Editor, I don't have as much concern about it. It's likely the hangar space on the Perry will allow "x" sized aircraft. I'm okay with that. While I may not have a copy of Janes All The World's Ships or US Naval Institute's Guide to Fleets besides me, there is the Interwebs. That being said, I vote to NOT allow a flag to be enabled. At some point, someone will want to write a futuristic or out of the box scenario involving VTOLs or some other type of a/c. That's the beauty of it. For realists, well, you'll know if the scenario is up to your fidelity when you check details like that. As a Scenario Creator, I want the flexibility more than enabling flags that cripple my ability later to do things in the scenario.

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RE: Found something that needs fixed ASAP - 10/10/2013 9:57:20 PM   
mikmykWS

 

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The game doesn't know what kind of aircraft you're putting in its hangar space it just evaluates size. We'll take a look.

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RE: Found something that needs fixed ASAP - 10/11/2013 8:19:39 AM   
Dimitris


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At one point we had a "don't add this aircraft here if there is no air facility that it could use to take off/land" check but had to disable it as it was not working very reliably at the time. Probably worth revisiting it down the road.

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RE: Found something that needs fixed ASAP - 10/11/2013 8:33:47 AM   
jomni


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What if I really want to put an A4 inside because I want to use it as a transport?

< Message edited by jomni -- 10/11/2013 8:34:56 AM >


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RE: Found something that needs fixed ASAP - 10/11/2013 8:49:23 AM   
ComDev

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Der Zeitgeist

It would be nice if we could get some sort of "standard" aircraft complements for different ships. So a frigate would have certain type of helicopter as well as munitions like torpedos in its default loadout. A carrier would by default carry a number or airplanes in its air wing, corresponding to different timeframes.


Have been thinking the same

If you want I can provide you with a list of all the ships in the database in an XLS sheet. Then you can add the 'standard' or 'typical' helicopter/aircraft to each, and once finished I can add these to the database and update the sim GUI.

Should be a pretty straightforward job really, but need to check that the helicopter torpedo/missile magazines match up with those on the ship. I.e. a 2008 version of a Burke carries a correct version of the Seahawk, etc etc. Been trying hard to maintain helicopter and ship magazine consistency but this is v1.0 so could be minor errors here-and-there.

Whatcha say?

Thanks!

< Message edited by emsoy -- 10/11/2013 8:51:32 AM >


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RE: Found something that needs fixed ASAP - 10/11/2013 11:26:12 AM   
LuckyJim1010

 

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Storm in a teacup, beauty of the internet is we can go look these things up.

I really do appreciate the OP's post and I think all that got people's goat up was the ASAP screaming at you in the forum page.

I think that the forums need to be split up a bit more.

It needs a Database Issues/Anomalies folder.

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RE: Found something that needs fixed ASAP - 10/11/2013 2:43:29 PM   
mbar


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So did anyone try launching A-4s from a Oliver Hazard Perry frigate? Would Sea Harriers work?

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RE: Found something that needs fixed ASAP - 10/11/2013 3:08:03 PM   
jomni


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mbar

So did anyone try launching A-4s from a Oliver Hazard Perry frigate? Would Sea Harriers work?


Obviously it cannot launch. It says it's waiting for available taxiway or elevator.


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RE: Found something that needs fixed ASAP - 10/11/2013 3:56:48 PM   
mbar


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Well good. If they launched then we'd have a problem.

But I am curious now if Sea Harriers would work. I'll give it a try.

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RE: Found something that needs fixed ASAP - 10/11/2013 4:00:53 PM   
Dimitris


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It's not a surprise if VTOL-capable aircraft can use ship helo pads.

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RE: Found something that needs fixed ASAP - 10/11/2013 4:28:28 PM   
mbar


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I can confirm that Sea Harriers launch and recover from Perry Class. Now I think that is just COOL!!

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