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RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? - 10/17/2013 5:37:58 PM   
Creeper

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Turner

The endurance figures ingame are calculated with the droptank, correct?


if the aircraft is equiped with droptanks then yes.

quote:


Anyone know the particulars of how range, endurance and fuel consumption are calculated???


The formula to calculate the combat range seems to be like:

i.e. a Bf 109G-2 is flying at 10000 feet altitude (cruise value: 320 climb value: 3116)

(100*(cruiseSpeed-30)/60*altitude/climb/200)+(100*(cruiseSpeed-30)/60)*(endurance-(altitude/climb))/100)*0.95)

now with values:
(100*(320-30)/60*10000/3116/200)+(100*(320-30)/60)*(105-(10000/3116))/100)*0.95)

so combat range is 474.757 miles
combat radius is 237.378 miles

The formula for the real range is same as above but without the subtraction of 30 from cruiseSpeed.
real range: 523.870 miles
real radius: 261.934 miles

P.S.: all infos given by me are without guarantee

< Message edited by Creeper -- 10/17/2013 5:44:06 PM >

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RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? - 10/17/2013 6:13:21 PM   
Denniss

 

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For the 300L DT value I'd look at the other most common drop tanks and check their fuel/effect relation so fixing one does not affect the balance too much. If you calculate from the 75 usgal DT the 300L should get a new value of 42. Note there may be different variations of the 300L DT in the device list (one maybe as 66 impgal), the 900L/198 impgal and a 100L DT.

(in reply to Turner)
Post #: 122
RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? - 10/17/2013 7:27:14 PM   
warshipbuilder


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@ Turner, here is another change for you:

438, 439 and 440 never flew the Hurricane IV operationally. They commenced operations March 18, 1944 with the Typhoon from Hurn attached to 83 Group. I didn't check to see if the game got the commanders right, but they were S/L FG Grant, S/L HH Norsworthy and S/L WH Pentland respectively.



< Message edited by warshipbuilder -- 10/31/2013 8:31:28 PM >


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RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? - 10/18/2013 3:28:54 AM   
BigDuke66


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Really great to see this game rolling again!

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RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? - 10/18/2013 6:40:41 AM   
JeffroK


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I am amazed that the original cam out with ANY errors in OOB, did they concentrate on pilot names rather than Squadron details??

My plan too start into a mod last weekend got derailed by weather, too nice to sit inside.

Great info warshipbuilder.


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RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? - 10/18/2013 7:27:52 AM   
BigDuke66


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As things for BoB 41 are posted what about BoB40? Here what I stumble over as I was looking thru the OOB that was released by HardSarge after the last patch(http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2408065):

1. Ju 88 A-5 has MG 17 instead MG 15, I think early ones had one MG 17 as a fixed forward gun fired by pilot/co-pilot but the A-5 should have just a single MG 15 firing forward and all MGs should be type 15 not 17.
2. Ju 88 C-2 I'm unsure about the armament some sources mention 2 MG FF/M, some say 1 and some say 2 additional to the 1 already installed, also type MG FF/M and normal MG FF are mixed, in any case it looks like the C-Stand(the BR) MG was removed in case of more canons on board.
3. The MG 81 on the Ju 88 D-1 looks strange as no other planes uses this MG, it was introduced in 1940 but I'm not sure if it made it into the BoB. Besides that the values of this MG should maybe be better as it had a higher rate of fire and was belt feed instead of drums compared to MG 15 so maybe more effect would be good.
4. Values of the MG 17 also look strange as it has less range and less effect than MG 15 but in reality it had a longer barrel, high muzzle velocity and higher rate of fire compared to MG 15.
5. The Do-17Z-2 in night bombings looks also strange, they use only 20x BSK ICB Cluster, that is neither the normal nor the reduced load from the weapons database so could this be an error? Can't image this kind of loadout was used as without bombs the "firestarters" won't have the same effect as the Ju88 or H111 can achive with their bomb/fire bomb loadouts.

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RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? - 10/18/2013 11:29:14 AM   
Denniss

 

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1) the forward gun was always a moveable gun, all other MG 15 as well.
2) standard fwd guns were 1x MG FF/M and 3x MG 17, the standard bottom gondola could hold another fwd gun + rear gun or they used a smaller streamlined weapon gondola with two additional MG FF/M and without rear gunner.
3) early ones used MG 15, later ones MG 81, they just followed what was available at the A-4. But during 1940 there should be no D-1 available, just the D-2 (based on A-5)
4) indeed that doesn't seem correct
5) Don't know what they used in reality, should probably use a mix of 50kg bombs + ICB clusters.

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Post #: 127
RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? - 10/18/2013 6:56:50 PM   
Turner


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Sometimes the historical events that took place isn't what was intended. This is often the case in the German arms industry during the closing stages of WW2. The engine intended for the Ta152C was the DB603L which had integrated intercooling during normal operation. The DB603LA was a emergency solution to get the aircraft operational and had no intercooling system instead the emergency power boost system functioned also as a intercooler but had limited running time.

So... if you want to be entirely correct the engine requirement for the Ta152C should be the DB603L. This frees up one slot for a new type of engine which I will enter as the BMW801F-1 (2,400 hp) intended for the FW190A-9 => 437.5 mph level flight. The A-9 was instead fielded in September '44 with the BMW801S (2000 hp), because of a similar situation the 152C was in, which still gave the Anton impressive performance yet the old 190A design had long since been eclipsed by the Ta152.

Also, I strongly suspect that the Me410B-2 types didn't really fly with the DB603L. I'll look into that later...

< Message edited by Turner -- 10/18/2013 7:15:34 PM >


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Post #: 128
RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? - 10/18/2013 7:35:09 PM   
Denniss

 

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The Me 410 never used anything else than the standard DB 603A. Only the He 219 was upgraded to 603AA (late A-0 and A-2) and later 603E (A-7).

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RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? - 10/19/2013 2:56:00 AM   
BigDuke66


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Regarding the forward gun, some sources list them as semi flexible I guess because of the small room you had to aim the weapon:


Yea Ju 88 D-1 should be D-2.

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RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? - 10/19/2013 2:59:26 AM   
warshipbuilder


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Is it possible to add squadrons to the db? Or delete them for that matter?

The reason for my questions is the following: 400, 414 and 430 were all army co-op squadrons i.e. they mostly did tactical recon, yet 430 is in the game well the other two are not. So should 400 and 414 be added in, or should 430 be deleted? None of the above?

I am working on a OOB for the RCAF as of August 17, 1943 similar to my post of yesterday.



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RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? - 10/19/2013 9:45:44 AM   
Turner


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Yes squadrons can be added but you will also need a full roster for them.

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RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? - 10/19/2013 1:48:32 PM   
K 19

 

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Thanks guys for the feedback. Of course, I'm all for historical accuracy. I'll paste Turner's most recent (and more accurate) database version in the first post instead of my version...

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RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? - 10/19/2013 10:37:20 PM   
JeffroK


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Can I suggest a standard when posting OOB info, for example BOB40, BOB41, BTR43 & BTR 44 so that you know where 400 & 414 RCAF Sqns are to be added?

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RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? - 10/20/2013 12:25:58 AM   
warshipbuilder


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Good idea JeffK. For the record 400 and 414 have no place in BoB, but should be in BTR. I will post the necessary info asap.

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Post #: 135
RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? - 10/20/2013 2:21:14 AM   
warshipbuilder


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Face red with embarrassment. I have amended my original post of October 17th. For the record, 401 should read Hurricane IIB not IIA. That's what happens when you don't cross reference.

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RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? - 10/20/2013 9:51:52 AM   
rob89

 

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Anyone know the meaning and the use of the data in the 'Device Sheet' (load, range, effect, penetration, etc.), regarding factory types

@Creeper

Is the little box in the 'Location Sheet' with the data of fuel/oil stocks working or not. If yes, how ?

Thank you in advance

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Post #: 137
RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? - 10/20/2013 7:52:39 PM   
warshipbuilder


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I knew that June 30th 1941 date for 410 was not right. I have changed my original post to August 29, 1941. For the record. A flight was ready August 5th and B flight August 29th, making the whole squadron operational.

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RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? - 10/21/2013 7:30:34 AM   
JeffroK


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warshipbuilder

I knew that June 30th 1941 date for 410 was not right. I have changed my original post to August 29, 1941. For the record. A flight was ready August 5th and B flight August 29th, making the whole squadron operational.

Bring it in on Aug 5 but only at half strength,

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RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? - 10/22/2013 7:42:55 PM   
Misconduct


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Interesting, I just got the Editor to work, and glancing over things

< Message edited by Misconduct -- 10/22/2013 8:02:27 PM >


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RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? - 10/22/2013 10:26:51 PM   
Denniss

 

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What always wondered me in the old BTR is the availability of the Fw 190F and G aircraft and units, the F was a heavily armored ground attack variant and not suitable for intercepting bombers, the G a long range fighter-bomber (although could be used vs bombers but lacked a bit firepower).
The Fw 190F was even more strange as it could be equipped with four rocket launchers vs the two in realworld.

Was there any change to this in the Matrix version?

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RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? - 10/23/2013 3:15:06 AM   
Creeper

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rob89

Anyone know the meaning and the use of the data in the 'Device Sheet' (load, range, effect, penetration, etc.), regarding factory types


Hi Rob,

it is important to activate macros in the editor.
If you do that, you could see in the top rows of the 'device sheet' that some values changes
from i.e. 'range' to 'production type' etc..., if you select factory machine types.
The meaning of i.e. 'production type' is:

Value 1: can produce frames
Value 2: can produce parts
Value 3: can produce engines

(Gary has a special liking for defining some variables twice. )

If you have more questions feel free to ask more precisely again.





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Creeper -- 10/23/2013 3:18:54 AM >

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RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? - 10/23/2013 3:32:44 AM   
Creeper

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rob89

@Creeper

Is the little box in the 'Location Sheet' with the data of fuel/oil stocks working or not. If yes, how ?

Thank you in advance


Yes, this box is working, but only if you are able to load a savegame file (and you're not...sorry).
IIRC, you can't load a savegame file, because there is the possibility to cheat in PBEM-games.
So, that function was removed from the editor.

But it would be really interesting to see how the fuel-/oil storage situation of the defender side
developes every turn.

Hmmm... TaggedYa, Turner, Stoneage... send me your savegame files










Attachment (1)

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RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? - 10/23/2013 1:05:03 PM   
rob89

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Creeper

quote:

ORIGINAL: rob89

Anyone know the meaning and the use of the data in the 'Device Sheet' (load, range, effect, penetration, etc.), regarding factory types


Hi Rob,

it is important to activate macros in the editor.
If you do that, you could see in the top rows of the 'device sheet' that some values changes
from i.e. 'range' to 'production type' etc..., if you select factory machine types.
The meaning of i.e. 'production type' is:

Value 1: can produce frames
Value 2: can produce parts
Value 3: can produce engines

(Gary has a special liking for defining some variables twice. )

If you have more questions feel free to ask more precisely again.







Thank you very much (and above all for the Editor)

So, I see the data but I have a doubt too : the number under column penetration, that for 'Assembly', 'Engines' & 'Parts' has different values (btw 5 and 90).
What's the meaning and use ? Is it related to the R&D function ?
(i.e. : the R&D function is not simply linear : 100*number of months in advance)

thanks

Rob

< Message edited by rob89 -- 10/23/2013 1:10:37 PM >

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RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? - 10/23/2013 1:07:20 PM   
rob89

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Creeper

quote:

ORIGINAL: rob89

@Creeper

Is the little box in the 'Location Sheet' with the data of fuel/oil stocks working or not. If yes, how ?

Thank you in advance


Yes, this box is working, but only if you are able to load a savegame file (and you're not...sorry).
IIRC, you can't load a savegame file, because there is the possibility to cheat in PBEM-games.
So, that function was removed from the editor.

But it would be really interesting to see how the fuel-/oil storage situation of the defender side
developes every turn.

Hmmm... TaggedYa, Turner, Stoneage... send me your savegame files





It's very sad

Those data are very important ...

(in reply to Creeper)
Post #: 145
RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? - 10/23/2013 5:26:19 PM   
Turner


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Creeper

But it would be really interesting to see how the fuel-/oil storage situation of the defender side
developes every turn.

Hmmm... TaggedYa, Turner, Stoneage... send me your savegame files


In all PBEM games I save every turn as I receive it, and a 2nd time as I send it. If TaggedYa do the same it should be really easy to trace the effects on the logistics system.

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Post #: 146
RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? - 10/24/2013 7:42:23 AM   
Creeper

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Turner

In all PBEM games I save every turn as I receive it, and a 2nd time as I send it. If TaggedYa do the same it should be really easy to trace the effects on the logistics system.


I got the save files from TaggedYa.
Currently I load all files into the editor, extracting all relevant data.
I'll send it to you, if I'm done with it.

(in reply to Turner)
Post #: 147
RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? - 10/24/2013 8:00:06 AM   
Creeper

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rob89

So, I see the data but I have a doubt too : the number under column penetration, that for 'Assembly', 'Engines' & 'Parts' has different values (btw 5 and 90).
What's the meaning and use ? Is it related to the R&D function ?
(i.e. : the R&D function is not simply linear : 100*number of months in advance)



In my experience this value is important for factory capacity increasement.
So to speak this value in column penetration determines the chance when factories could increase their capacity.
(but I could be totally wrong )

Any others here who knows a bit more about this?

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Post #: 148
RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? - 10/29/2013 12:57:32 PM   
Turner


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Guys, one of the most annoying aspects of the DB editor is changing 'pool' values, how many a/c is present in the pool when starting the game. I've found when loading the '43 BtR' capaign most values in this column does not show but switching to the 'device' tab then back to 'aircraft' will update it.

For testing the new aircraft types I'm adding them to the a/c pool, obviously to avoid having to play through the whole campaign. Changes to this 'pool' value does not always save, for some reason, and it is especially difficult when zeroing the pooled aircraft. The new zero values simply doesn't save! Could someone look into this issue to see if it can be fixed?

Thanks.


Edit: Ok I've found a workaround. Instead of entering the value zero into the cell, delete the data so that the cell is empty. Then scroll with the arrow keys over the deleted cells and the value should update to zero. Then save, you may have to save after each deleted cell. This works for me. To verify the cell has been zeroed switch to the 'device' tab then back to 'aircraft' and if the value is still zero it should be ok. You will still need to verify by loading the campaign file in the game and check the pool values.

< Message edited by Turner -- 10/29/2013 1:04:25 PM >


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Post #: 149
RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? - 10/31/2013 12:37:37 AM   
Creeper

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Turner


Edit: Ok I've found a workaround. Instead of entering the value zero into the cell, delete the data so that the cell is empty. Then scroll with the arrow keys over the deleted cells and the value should update to zero. Then save, you may have to save after each deleted cell. This works for me. To verify the cell has been zeroed switch to the 'device' tab then back to 'aircraft' and if the value is still zero it should be ok. You will still need to verify by loading the campaign file in the game and check the pool values.


Turner, I'm pretty sure, the values in the aircraft editor regarding the pool values only have the meaning
of a interest value.
Because the aircraft editor wouldn't know, if you want to change the default campaign (i.e Campaign 43,)
or if you would change the Nachtjagd I, Avalanche or Introductinory scenario)

So, I would suggest to change the pool values in the device tab instead of the aircraft tab value.

Thanks for your effort!!
Creeper


< Message edited by Creeper -- 10/31/2013 12:38:30 AM >

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