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RE: In wargames, who do you prefer playing as?

 
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RE: In wargames, who do you prefer playing as? - 10/2/2013 7:25:21 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 42181
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Boomer78

Warspite,
So by your logic I suppose there shouldn't be a Holocaust museum, then. Or maybe we should take down the monument at Wounded Knee. Why? Because, God forbid, someone has a problem with it or gets upset. They're just words, man. Sticks and stones and all the rest.

You probably know that the swastika is banned in Germany, right? Well, who but the nazis would go around banning things? Seems a bit contradictory, doesn't it? I don't think many people would understand freedom of movement, idea, or speech if it walked up and slapped them in the face. And to me, that's what's wrong with political correctness. We don't forget bad things because they happened. We REMEMBER bad things because they happened. To shove something down into the dark dust bin of history is basically begging to repeat it. Everything the swastika stands for is wrapped up in the idea of the force behind banning it. It is it's own best friend and worst enemy. Same goes for ideas. We all have the right to express what we want. The best way to expose a foolish nazi bigot isn't to ban him or his ideas. That only lends weight and power to his foolishness. We expose the nazi by allowing him to stick his foot into his mouth every time he opens it.

Long story short, people have the right to play games, pick sides, and believe in all kinds of things... even things you may not agree with. If someone is offended by playing as the nazis in a video game, then they have every right not to play it. At the same time, it gives them no right to stop me from playing it. I can't make my view point any simpler than that.

warspite1

Er......

Boomer old chap I am sure you made a cogent argument (I cannot stand PC either). However, the slight issue I have with your post is that it has absolutely NOTHING, that is to say NOTHING to do with the point I was making.

Where did I say anything about banning anything or political correctness or er....anything

Please re-read my post. I simply said that saying that anyone who did not want to play a certain side in a game must be mad, was a tad unfair. That's all. There could be many reasons why someone does not want to - and frankly not wanting to play the Germans because, within living memory the German nation put 6 million of your fellow Jews to death, solely by virtue of the fact they were born Jewish, is perhaps understandable, no?


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Boomer78)
Post #: 31
RE: In wargames, who do you prefer playing as? - 10/2/2013 7:34:47 PM   
DerTroof

 

Posts: 87
Joined: 2/19/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

Genocide counter could be an amusing addition to strategic wargame, though. The downside is that it would still be a strategic wargame.



I believe there's a strategic ETO WW2 game that has an "Atrocity" counter. Generated some heated discussion on boardgamegeek, IIRC. I do remember that the counter actually indicates some sort of penalty, resource or otherwise, on the Axis player. I haven't played the game and can't recall its name.

(in reply to Perturabo)
Post #: 32
RE: In wargames, who do you prefer playing as? - 10/2/2013 7:45:19 PM   
Anguille


Posts: 631
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Hyper-cruiser "Phantom"
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: terje439

Underdogs;
-CSA
-Axis
-Entente

etc etc


Terje

Same here...i like to have the odds against me even if it means that i lose more often than i win.

_____________________________


(in reply to terje439)
Post #: 33
RE: In wargames, who do you prefer playing as? - 10/2/2013 7:55:09 PM   
Boomer78


Posts: 339
Joined: 9/6/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Boomer78

Warspite,
So by your logic I suppose there shouldn't be a Holocaust museum, then. Or maybe we should take down the monument at Wounded Knee. Why? Because, God forbid, someone has a problem with it or gets upset. They're just words, man. Sticks and stones and all the rest.

You probably know that the swastika is banned in Germany, right? Well, who but the nazis would go around banning things? Seems a bit contradictory, doesn't it? I don't think many people would understand freedom of movement, idea, or speech if it walked up and slapped them in the face. And to me, that's what's wrong with political correctness. We don't forget bad things because they happened. We REMEMBER bad things because they happened. To shove something down into the dark dust bin of history is basically begging to repeat it. Everything the swastika stands for is wrapped up in the idea of the force behind banning it. It is it's own best friend and worst enemy. Same goes for ideas. We all have the right to express what we want. The best way to expose a foolish nazi bigot isn't to ban him or his ideas. That only lends weight and power to his foolishness. We expose the nazi by allowing him to stick his foot into his mouth every time he opens it.

Long story short, people have the right to play games, pick sides, and believe in all kinds of things... even things you may not agree with. If someone is offended by playing as the nazis in a video game, then they have every right not to play it. At the same time, it gives them no right to stop me from playing it. I can't make my view point any simpler than that.

warspite1

Er......

Boomer old chap I am sure you made a cogent argument (I cannot stand PC either). However, the slight issue I have with your post is that it has absolutely NOTHING, that is to say NOTHING to do with the point I was making.

Where did I say anything about banning anything or political correctness or er....anything

Please re-read my post. I simply said that saying that anyone who did not want to play a certain side in a game must be mad, was a tad unfair. That's all. There could be many reasons why someone does not want to - and frankly not wanting to play the Germans because, within living memory the German nation put 6 million of your fellow Jews to death, solely by virtue of the fact they were born Jewish, is perhaps understandable, no?



Sometimes I take a discussion point to its nasty and often overly political end too fast. Perhaps censorship was not where this discussion was headed, but I've seen it head that way in too many forums and chat rooms to count. In these times, when people talk about sensitive topics like WWII, genocide, you know... typical dinner conversation, there usually is at least a vocal minority that starts mentioning the 'C' word using emotionalism to hype and continue what turns into silly circular arguments.

No offense was intended by my points, nor is any offense taken. Just a free flowing river of ideas and words... that's how we learn and share as bipedal creatures. If I mistakenly take a conversation into dark waters unjustly, then I apologize for that.

Topic back on schedule. Sorry for the detour. Sometimes my mouth draws maps that the tour guides can't decipher.

_____________________________

"Fly, god dammit it fly! God damn cheap Japanese flying packs!"

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 34
RE: In wargames, who do you prefer playing as? - 10/2/2013 8:09:13 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 42181
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Boomer78


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Boomer78

Warspite,
So by your logic I suppose there shouldn't be a Holocaust museum, then. Or maybe we should take down the monument at Wounded Knee. Why? Because, God forbid, someone has a problem with it or gets upset. They're just words, man. Sticks and stones and all the rest.

You probably know that the swastika is banned in Germany, right? Well, who but the nazis would go around banning things? Seems a bit contradictory, doesn't it? I don't think many people would understand freedom of movement, idea, or speech if it walked up and slapped them in the face. And to me, that's what's wrong with political correctness. We don't forget bad things because they happened. We REMEMBER bad things because they happened. To shove something down into the dark dust bin of history is basically begging to repeat it. Everything the swastika stands for is wrapped up in the idea of the force behind banning it. It is it's own best friend and worst enemy. Same goes for ideas. We all have the right to express what we want. The best way to expose a foolish nazi bigot isn't to ban him or his ideas. That only lends weight and power to his foolishness. We expose the nazi by allowing him to stick his foot into his mouth every time he opens it.

Long story short, people have the right to play games, pick sides, and believe in all kinds of things... even things you may not agree with. If someone is offended by playing as the nazis in a video game, then they have every right not to play it. At the same time, it gives them no right to stop me from playing it. I can't make my view point any simpler than that.

warspite1

Er......

Boomer old chap I am sure you made a cogent argument (I cannot stand PC either). However, the slight issue I have with your post is that it has absolutely NOTHING, that is to say NOTHING to do with the point I was making.

Where did I say anything about banning anything or political correctness or er....anything

Please re-read my post. I simply said that saying that anyone who did not want to play a certain side in a game must be mad, was a tad unfair. That's all. There could be many reasons why someone does not want to - and frankly not wanting to play the Germans because, within living memory the German nation put 6 million of your fellow Jews to death, solely by virtue of the fact they were born Jewish, is perhaps understandable, no?



Sometimes I take a discussion point to its nasty and often overly political end too fast. Perhaps censorship was not where this discussion was headed, but I've seen it head that way in too many forums and chat rooms to count. In these times, when people talk about sensitive topics like WWII, genocide, you know... typical dinner conversation, there usually is at least a vocal minority that starts mentioning the 'C' word using emotionalism to hype and continue what turns into silly circular arguments.

No offense was intended by my points, nor is any offense taken. Just a free flowing river of ideas and words... that's how we learn and share as bipedal creatures. If I mistakenly take a conversation into dark waters unjustly, then I apologize for that.

Topic back on schedule. Sorry for the detour. Sometimes my mouth draws maps that the tour guides can't decipher.
warspite1

Okay - no probs


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Boomer78)
Post #: 35
RE: In wargames, who do you prefer playing as? - 10/2/2013 8:20:12 PM   
Curtis Lemay


Posts: 12038
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline
PacWar definitely awarded the US player VPs for bombing Jap cities per the amount of civilian losses inflicted. I haven't checked but I assume WitP retained that feature. It seems not only appropriate to do so but necessary. Those losses played a part in Japan's decision to end the war. And without the awards, why would any US player devote forces to that purpose?

Suppose you were doing a nuclear-exchange game. How could victory ever be evaluated except through the amount of civilian losses?

(in reply to Boomer78)
Post #: 36
RE: In wargames, who do you prefer playing as? - 10/2/2013 10:27:05 PM   
Lützow


Posts: 1517
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

Suppose you were doing a nuclear-exchange game. How could victory ever be evaluated except through the amount of civilian losses?


Just think about titles like BoB or BTR where one can bomb civilians, even it doesn't make sense.

After all these are just games and nobody get harmed in a simulation.


_____________________________


(in reply to Curtis Lemay)
Post #: 37
RE: In wargames, who do you prefer playing as? - 10/3/2013 1:57:32 AM   
Perturabo


Posts: 2545
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline
Defcon is all about mass murder by nukes. I think it's the only game that I have ever played that I have found too depraved to play.

_____________________________

People shouldn't ask themselves why schools get shoot up.
They should ask themselves why people who finish schools burned out due to mobbing aren't receiving high enough compensations to not seek vengeance.

(in reply to Lützow)
Post #: 38
RE: In wargames, who do you prefer playing as? - 10/3/2013 2:52:32 AM   
Aurelian

 

Posts: 4018
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_War_(computer_game) Played this on the Amiga a lot.

_____________________________


(in reply to Perturabo)
Post #: 39
RE: In wargames, who do you prefer playing as? - 10/3/2013 2:58:48 AM   
OldSarge


Posts: 405
Joined: 11/25/2010
From: Albuquerque, NM
Status: offline
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_War_(card_game) I played this one before there were Amigas.

(in reply to Aurelian)
Post #: 40
RE: In wargames, who do you prefer playing as? - 10/3/2013 6:54:28 AM   
rodney727


Posts: 1477
Joined: 7/12/2011
From: Iowa
Status: offline
As an American it offends me to play the British in any form when I'm playing any American revolution up to and including the American civil war. So I do understand why a person of the Jewish faith wouldn't want to play the Germans in ww2. But I do enjoy playing the British empire in ww1 and also in North Africa . Also in civ 4 my favorite nation to play is England .. Weird I know
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Twotribes


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Boomer78

I think anyone who has a personal problem playing as a certain side in a game needs to check not only the size of their stones but the size of their brain as well.

One of the things that help build an understanding of tactics and strategy is to learn both roles in a conflict situation.


warspite1

Really? You think there is necessarily something wrong in the head with a person of the Jewish faith simply for not wanting to play the Germans in a WWII game?

You think that they should play the Germans in order to understand the Nazi tactics and strategy?

I think that comment was rather unfair.

Since no war game I know of dealing with WWII has any of the bad things Germany did in them I see no problem. If one plays wargames for fun why would it be a concern? If one plays wargames to learn a little history again what is the problem?
warspite1

What is the problem? To me, and to many others who have answered, there appears to be no problem.

What I was responding too was the comment that for anyone that has a problem they "must" have something wrong in the head.

As I said, I think that is unfair - particularly, but not limited to, being applied in the Jewish/German situation.




< Message edited by rogo727 -- 10/3/2013 7:01:02 AM >


_____________________________

"I thank God that I was warring on the gridirons of the midwest and not the battlefields of Europe"
Nile Kinnick 1918-1943

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 41
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