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RE: Games that let you down

 
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RE: Games that let you down - 9/27/2013 6:24:48 AM   
berto


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Magna Mundi would have been several steps in the right direction. EU IV is a step backward in the wrong direction. As the old Miller Lite commercials would say, "Tastes great, less [ful]filling." EU IV is weak beer.

Glad you like EU IV. Many do. I don't.

< Message edited by berto -- 9/27/2013 6:26:55 AM >


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RE: Games that let you down - 9/27/2013 11:29:08 AM   
Terminus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Levin

oh good gracious me.. Will you just stop trying to convince her about AI allready!!????! She doesn't like them, you do.. DONE! Nothing you say will convince the other now stop beating this allready dead horse and get back on topic please! For crying out loud if you want to rant about AIs start your own thread.

Now.. Another game that let me down was simcity 5.. I didn't actually buy and i'm glad i didn't! I love the simcity series so when they anounced the new one and i saw the curved streets and good graphics i was super hyped!! Then came the details.. Small citys.. No terraforming.. The always online requirement.. And the hordes of bugs!! Ugh.... First they ruin my civ5 and then my simcity5! :(


Who the hell is trying to convince "DSWargamer" about AI? I'm trying to convince them that being a douchebag about it is a bad thing.

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Post #: 92
RE: Games that let you down - 9/27/2013 12:04:13 PM   
wodin


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Terminus and berto thanks for the support but lets just forget it about it all. DS comes across a certain way on forums..but really doesn't mean any harm. I think people should be abit more considerate of other gamers wants and accept what they enjoy and leave it at that.

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Post #: 93
RE: Games that let you down - 9/27/2013 12:43:35 PM   
Darkspire


Posts: 1989
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quote:


Who the hell is trying to convince "DSWargamer" about AI?


Me

Judging by the lack of a reply and the smell of burning I think I failed

I was really hoping that AI would become as important as GFX in games when dual core processors appeared moons ago, I have only seen a few, IMO, good AI programmers in the last 10+ years and even less games that have a really competent one, I really do not enjoy multiplayer at all, I much prefer to play against an AI, trouble is the consoles took a step up and multiplayer became the predominant norm, the PC is the last surviving bastion of light and hope that it will get better, we have oodles more processing power now and I for one would like to see that employed in creating AI's that not only surprise me in there intelligence but kick my ass at the same time.

Darkspire

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RE: Games that let you down - 9/27/2013 12:48:05 PM   
Punzer

 

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Diablo 3 is another game that I feel has truly let me down. I had liked Diablo and Diablo 2, so I felt comfortable pre-ordering Diablo 3 and did so rather early. Yeah, my own fault for getting all excited. It was great at times, but between the Auction Houses dictating loot drops and the server issues which often hit late in the night when I game, I had less and less fun as I progressed. It's not a busted game of course, but my expectations were so high because of the stellar quality of the earlier games that I couldn't help but notice Diablo 3, unlike Diablo 2, was not entirely a step forward for the franchise. At least not to me.

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RE: Games that let you down - 9/27/2013 12:52:37 PM   
Terminus


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Eh, Diablo 3 had flaws, but I still completed it. Haven't been back since, of course...

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Post #: 96
RE: Games that let you down - 9/27/2013 1:05:46 PM   
Punzer

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darkspire

quote:


Who the hell is trying to convince "DSWargamer" about AI?


Me

Judging by the lack of a reply and the smell of burning I think I failed

I was really hoping that AI would become as important as GFX in games when dual core processors appeared moons ago, I have only seen a few, IMO, good AI programmers in the last 10+ years and even less games that have a really competent one, I really do not enjoy multiplayer at all, I much prefer to play against an AI, trouble is the consoles took a step up and multiplayer became the predominant norm, the PC is the last surviving bastion of light and hope that it will get better, we have oodles more processing power now and I for one would like to see that employed in creating AI's that not only surprise me in there intelligence but kick my ass at the same time.

Darkspire


Me too! I would love a true and sophisticated AI, but until humans are upgraded with multi-core processors and actually use them, I think we might have to call real AI the "Holy Grail" of coding. We can code for specialized and limited operations, like chess (and even that took how much time, money, and effort?), but our favorite wargames aren't as simple and as abstract as chess, where the attacker always wins and the board is void of all environmental factors excepting solely whether it is a light or dark square and then only provides 64 of them to play on.

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Post #: 97
RE: Games that let you down - 9/27/2013 1:06:41 PM   
Darkspire


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pika

Diablo 3 is another game that I feel has truly let me down. I had liked Diablo and Diablo 2, so I felt comfortable pre-ordering Diablo 3 and did so rather early. Yeah, my own fault for getting all excited. It was great at times, but between the Auction Houses dictating loot drops and the server issues which often hit late in the night when I game, I had less and less fun as I progressed. It's not a busted game of course, but my expectations were so high because of the stellar quality of the earlier games that I couldn't help but notice Diablo 3, unlike Diablo 2, was not entirely a step forward for the franchise. At least not to me.


Rumor was back in the day that although Diablo III was held back a few times it was not just because of problems, Titan Quest appeared and was very similar which was supposed to have caused a major rethink, D3 should have been released years before it eventually became available, like somewhere about 06-07, I love D2 and still play it on the odd day, even have Diablo still installed with all the addons on an old machine, D3 really was a total letdown, I am glad I never bought it, played it over on a friends machine and just came away thinking it was a rip off of Titan Quest with some different bells and whistles, you can pick up Titan Quest Gold for a fiver on Amazon, it is a brilliant game, great graphics, story and gameplay, plenty of mods and addons as well, like the Titan Quest Vault, a must have if you play it seriously. Torchlight 1+2 are good as well, not as good as TQ IMO, but close. There is also Grim Dawn which is made by the same folks that made TQ, that is really shaping up well, I have been following its development and have been really impressed by the way it is going.

This page has a really good video about half way down so you can see what I mean.

Darkspire

< Message edited by Darkspire -- 9/27/2013 1:10:04 PM >


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RE: Games that let you down - 9/27/2013 1:14:53 PM   
Punzer

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darkspire


Rumor was back in the day that although Diablo III was held back a few times it was not just because of problems, Titan Quest appeared and was very similar which was supposed to have caused a major rethink, D3 should have been released years before it eventually became available, like somewhere about 06-07, I love D2 and still play it on the odd day, even have Diablo still installed with all the addons on an old machine, D3 really was a total letdown, I am glad I never bought it, played it over on a friends machine and just came away thinking it was a rip off of Titan Quest with some different bells and whistles, you can pick up Titan Quest Gold for a fiver on Amazon, it is a brilliant game, great graphics, story and gameplay, plenty of mods and addons as well, like the Titan Quest Vault, a must have if you play it seriously. Torchlight 1+2 are good as well, not as good as TQ IMO, but close. There is also Grim Dawn which is made by the same folks that made TQ, that is really shaping up well, I have been following its development and have been really impressed by the way it is going.

Darkspire


I have played and enjoyed Titan Quest and I agree it is a far better game than Diablo 3. I run a Mac right now, but I might get another PC in the near future. If it looks like I will, I'll check out Grim Dawn. Thanks for the notice.

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Post #: 99
RE: Games that let you down - 9/27/2013 2:08:29 PM   
DSWargamer

 

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Well as the thread is 'Games that let you down'. I'm inclined to think 'computer games' and not waste a lot of time specifying particular examples, as I think so much of the problem is computer games, and that includes consoles, as a console is just another form of methodology of delivery, much like a car and a truck are just forms of conveyance with specific ways of getting the objective accomplished.

When I was a kid, playing games meant playing them with people. WITH PEOPLE MEANT THAT THEY WERE ACTUALLY PHYSICALLY PRESENT THOUGH!.

Modern life though has resulted in so much of society accepting that playing a game solo was acceptable. Some of us simply don't agree though.

I have no real background with MMOs simply because my background is with pen and paper. I've watched them for a long time, I know they well enough from having friends that play them and my son plays them. There's nothing really special about them though, any more than some cars are Ladas and some are Porches and I am not impressed by being told how great a Ford is.

They removed the one aspect from the experience that mattered. Being with friends.

I would never have gotten interested in wargames, if my first encounter had been with one on a machine though, and that includes every wargame we've ever seen. My first taste was Tactic II and my reply was 'wow, almost like chess, but so much more detailed'. Then I discovered Squad Leader and Panzer Blitz and Third Reich. But they were all played with local friends. And Squad Leader will always be the ABBA game as my regular local friend opponent was Swedish and we played a lot of ABBA when we gamed. Third Reich was also impacted by the way my silly friend would act all ridiculous while being the Germans. He usually played the Germans so I tended to act very silly as the Allies. To listen to us, you would have thought we were completely nuts.

None of that exists with games where it is just you and the machine. I actually feel pity if you have come to LIKE being just you and the machine and a dreadfully stupid opponent. You might not like my pity, but you are going to have to deal with it, as I am not planning to stop pitying you willing loners any time soon. I'd probably pity you even if the AIs were good. Actually, I likely would, as you would just be more convinced that a human wasn't as much fun.

Humans are social creatures after all. I enjoy doing anything more so when I have company. It's more fun to shop with someone, it is more fun to bake with someone, it is more fun to watch a movie with someone. I even like reading a book knowing someone else is in the room.

I have often felt sad, that we have used our computers more as companions, than as tools. Because, there is really no reason that our computers are not being used as bridges to bring board games a bit closer together. It's sad that Vassal is not more enthusiastically embraced as an idea. I also wish the virtual table top would hurry up and evolve faster. I'd love to enjoy the graphical enhancements instead of all the paper clutter at the table getting in the way of the minis and the books. I think it would be cool if the gang was all lounging in chairs and seeing the game appear on the hosts 40+ inch TV screen.

I don't want my computer to be my opponent, I want it to make it so my table is not required, so that the game board is the TV screen and neither I nor my friends have to wreck our backs constantly reaching over a map that is measured in feet not inches.

So yes, if you want to know, 'what games have let you down?' I'd be saying digital games. They have failed humanity, in allowing us to not require humans to play them. It's like listening to people explain the virtues of playing hide and seek alone and how Solitaire is more fun than a poker night with the gang. Sorry boys, it doesn't wash, and for those that think it is a great thing to not need to play against other, you have my pity.

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RE: Games that let you down - 9/27/2013 2:26:21 PM   
Agathosdaimon


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AI must come down to the programmers ultimately - the old garbage in garbage out, and the programmers of old really put the technology to the limits then but this i guess is more a response on the current state of gaming.

I think also i was a bit let down by Cossacks 2 in that, well its alright as a game on its terms and i did find it unique and definitely tough, but the battlefields were smaller and just full of things which made large napoleonic field battles impossible , at least not like in Cossacks. Also the battle for europe campaign was really basic, far too basic really.
Cossacks2 could have at least used some battlefields based on historical battle sites.

On the napoleonic theme - did any ever play that Napoleons Battles game that came free with Squad Assault west front? I would say i was let down but i was not expecting it to be any good and in fact it is appalling - which makes it tough though as there no details as to what the few buttons on screen mean, and a whole unit of mean seem to just die with as little contact with the enemy as possible

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RE: Games that let you down - 9/27/2013 3:56:27 PM   
Aurelian

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Levin

oh good gracious me.. Will you just stop trying to convince her about AI allready!!????! She doesn't like them, you do.. DONE! Nothing you say will convince the other now stop beating this allready dead horse and get back on topic please! For crying out loud if you want to rant about AIs start your own thread.



Then perhaps you could convince her to give it up? She likes playing with people, some don't. DONE!

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RE: Games that let you down - 9/27/2013 4:12:38 PM   
Aurelian

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Levin

oh good gracious me.. Will you just stop trying to convince her about AI allready!!????! She doesn't like them, you do.. DONE! Nothing you say will convince the other now stop beating this allready dead horse and get back on topic please! For crying out loud if you want to rant about AIs start your own thread.

Now.. Another game that let me down was simcity 5.. I didn't actually buy and i'm glad i didn't! I love the simcity series so when they anounced the new one and i saw the curved streets and good graphics i was super hyped!! Then came the details.. Small citys.. No terraforming.. The always online requirement.. And the hordes of bugs!! Ugh.... First they ruin my civ5 and then my simcity5! :(


Who the hell is trying to convince "DSWargamer" about AI? I'm trying to convince them that being a douchebag about it is a bad thing.


The AI doesn't act like a douchebag to the point where you want to kick the crap out of it. Unlike some douchebag people I don't play these games with anymore.

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RE: Games that let you down - 9/27/2013 5:35:38 PM   
Lecivius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

Outpost on release was bad. Once they patched it to playability (and it took a few years) it was ok.

MOO 3 was sad. Just sad.

WiTE and Bombing the Reich were epic failures. I am a lot more carefull with my cash here. There are a lot of other Matrix games I own that are stellar, so take that with a boulder of salt.

Civ 5 was a pathetic rip off.

Any MMO currently on the market released in the last 10 years is a rip off.

The latest Sim game I was interested, but from experience I held off. Smart move.

I never had a problem with Ageod.


What precisely was Civ 5 ripping off? Itself?



Civ5 is just the earlier Civ's with different graphics. So in effect, it ripped off both itself, and those who boaught it.

My opinion anyways. If you like it, cool

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RE: Games that let you down - 9/27/2013 6:02:23 PM   
catwhoorg


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Civ5 has hexes, but only single unit per hex.

That alone is a massive change from previous games.

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RE: Games that let you down - 9/27/2013 10:39:40 PM   
DSWargamer

 

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I actually understand the discomfort directed at Civilization V because of the single unit per hex aspect.

Question for you though. If it is such a game killer, why was Strategic Command so incredibly successful? Why has it not made playing Panzer Corps impossible?

I loved playing Civilization IV, but I must admit, I found the massive kill stacks that would show up when the bottom of the list AI player would show up with 50 garbage museum relics and actually cause trouble for a 21st century army very annoying.

I also don't mind that they turfed the espionage. It was cheesy, I admit, I used it that way, but it was still cheesy. I found it annoying dealing with culture bombs too. I used them, but I knew they were annoying. I also felt borging a city with religion was also hardly thrilling, merely effective. Sometimes, something working, doesn't make it any good regardless.

I was really wanting to get Sim City 5 myself. Then I saw the initial reports and it was 'wow, they really screwed that one up royally'. Puny micro cities next to other puny micro cities. The worst of human suburban sprawl in a game.

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RE: Games that let you down - 9/27/2013 10:40:17 PM   
Boomer78


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian


quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Levin

oh good gracious me.. Will you just stop trying to convince her about AI allready!!????! She doesn't like them, you do.. DONE! Nothing you say will convince the other now stop beating this allready dead horse and get back on topic please! For crying out loud if you want to rant about AIs start your own thread.



Then perhaps you could convince her to give it up? She likes playing with people, some don't. DONE!


To steal a quote from Vince McMahon, "some people like vanilla ice cream. Some people like chocolate ice cream. Which is better?" That's one of the problems with human interaction, particularly on the internet. Many of us try to make matters of opinion into hard fact, when there are no absolute truths, only personal preference.

Convincing someone to change their own hard coded ethics/views/preferences is often nearly impossible, yet we never give up trying... trying to make everyone else like us.

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RE: Games that let you down - 9/27/2013 11:09:29 PM   
CapitanPiluso


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Crusader Kings 2 Tried to play it several times but never could go a single step ahead ( And I play TOAW,HPS and Harpoon as a regular basis) lol

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RE: Games that let you down - 9/27/2013 11:17:46 PM   
aaatoysandmore

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: H Gilmer

Look. I think we can all agree that AI is not currently and won't be in the near future, better than human opponents. People play against the AI for convenience.



I beg to disagree I know of 3 games ai's that are far superior to a human. War of the Lance, Centurion Defender of Rome and Spartan v. 1.013 on nomal Centurion will kick your azz until you get better at the game on higher difficulties you can forget it. War of the Lance doesn't really have difficulty levels per se but is a time limit game and it too will kick your royal azz until you've played it many times and then you'll only beat it if you're lucky, Spartan on its two highest difficulties hardest and impossible will stomp you a new butt and you might be lucky if you can beat it 1 out of 5 tries on those levels. You can say what you will but there are games out there with quality ai's quite capable of beating a human and better than a human opponent any day. There's just too many lazy programmers out there today out for the quick buck instead of making a great game and ai. I had some of my best games against the ai's of Sid Meier's Railroad Tycoon and Alpha Centauri and 1830 Railroads and Robber Barrons has a pretty strong ai as well. You've been weakened by the ai's of today and classifying all ai's as poor and that's just not correct. Better read your history less of PC ai's of the 80's and early 90's they smoke the ai's of today.

Oh and to stay on topic before I was so #%^$ interrupted the game that disappointed me most was Field of Glory by Slitherine the graphics were horrible after playing the Tin Soldiers series and the AI once again was terrible and no challenge at all. I sure hope they don't screw up Field of Glory II that way.

< Message edited by aaatoysandmore -- 9/27/2013 11:19:51 PM >

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RE: Games that let you down - 9/27/2013 11:24:44 PM   
Boomer78


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CapitanPiluso

Crusader Kings 2 Tried to play it several times but never could go a single step ahead ( And I play TOAW,HPS and Harpoon as a regular basis) lol


Oh, man... one of the best games in a long time, IMO. For once in a long time a dev stopped trying to reinvent the wheel and just worked really hard on a single concept and nearly perfected it. That's what a lot of players don't get about CK2. It's not EU. It's not HOI, it's a dynasty simulator. I think one of the problems people had with it is that gaining/maintaining an empire is difficult to impossible in CK2. But that's because you have to work hard to gain and maintain a royal family that is constantly dying-crusading-murdering, and keeping a dozen egos in check (along with retainers and bastards) is really hard to do. And that's where the fun is.

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Post #: 110
RE: Games that let you down - 9/27/2013 11:49:21 PM   
Gilmer


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quote:

you can pick up Titan Quest Gold for a fiver on Amazon, it is a brilliant game, great graphics, story and gameplay, plenty of mods and addons as well, like the Titan Quest Vault, a must have if you play it seriously.


Titanquest was a game that when I picked it up for cheap I thought, it will possibly be OK. It may be a clone of Diablo, not really sure but it's better than Diablo 1 or 2, I have not played 3. Titanquest is just a really good game.

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(in reply to Darkspire)
Post #: 111
RE: Games that let you down - 9/28/2013 12:06:41 AM   
loki100


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think you are being a wee bit unfair. I mean I agree about the fun to be had out of playing against another human but in both WEGO and IGO/UGO game engines, there is a vast amount of sport to be had in the exchange of messages to accompany saved games/orders.

Its a form of sledging, and almost as much fun as the actual game play. You can wind up your oppponent before they even open the turn with the right mix of fact and propaganda.

The issue of an AI is another issue. Most early games used brute force and cheat algorithms. Increasingly, the preferred approach is to give the AI situational scripts or preset options. Writing a genuinely interactive AI for a complex game is a massive task - its hard enough to get a good chess AI when the rules are so rigid and the options so well studied.

As to disappointments, I've been lucky but I think there are two. HOI3 as even after 3 iterations, its still not a challenge (in that HOI2 in the end was - cheating AI and all) and NCP. Nothing wrong with the latter, but its the only AGEOD game I just can't get into and I've tried SP and PBEM - I don't even know why it doesn't click for me

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Post #: 112
RE: Games that let you down - 9/28/2013 12:10:17 AM   
aaatoysandmore

 

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The sad thing about Titan Quest and the Diablo series is they aren't roleplaying games they are action jack hack n slash games pretty much leading you down the yellow brick road and never deviating from it. The real roleplaying games came out in the 80's in the Gold Box series of games, Pool of Radience and The Curse of the Azure Bonds and those kinds even they too became more of a hack n slash than a real role playing adventure. Gone were the I'm doing this and that and picking the spot where you hit the enemy it was just generic combat with a dice roll. Hit or Miss then one day someone got smart and made a game called Knights of Legend boy was that fun it brought back spots to hit and you could fight with an arm out of commission or your head bleeding profusely kinda like playing The Magic Realm boardgame. All future rpg games seem to have become hack n slash without much story telling even Baldur's Gate was more about hack n slash at every turn. Diablo III was a mess compare to Diablo II. It just basically was a rehash of all the places you went in Diablo II and I could have told you the plot and story ending before I started, in fact I did on their forums it was hilarious how right I was. No rpg should be that easy to figure out. Not with a name like Diablo. Still would make an awesome movie I think. II that is.

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Post #: 113
RE: Games that let you down - 9/28/2013 12:46:50 AM   
Aurelian

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Boomer78


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian


quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Levin

oh good gracious me.. Will you just stop trying to convince her about AI allready!!????! She doesn't like them, you do.. DONE! Nothing you say will convince the other now stop beating this allready dead horse and get back on topic please! For crying out loud if you want to rant about AIs start your own thread.



Then perhaps you could convince her to give it up? She likes playing with people, some don't. DONE!


To steal a quote from Vince McMahon, "some people like vanilla ice cream. Some people like chocolate ice cream. Which is better?" That's one of the problems with human interaction, particularly on the internet. Many of us try to make matters of opinion into hard fact, when there are no absolute truths, only personal preference.

Convincing someone to change their own hard coded ethics/views/preferences is often nearly impossible, yet we never give up trying... trying to make everyone else like us.


Ahhh, but what if you like both? :)

_____________________________


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Post #: 114
RE: Games that let you down - 9/28/2013 12:53:41 AM   
Mac67

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DSWargamer

None of that exists with games where it is just you and the machine. I actually feel pity if you have come to LIKE being just you and the machine and a dreadfully stupid opponent. You might not like my pity, but you are going to have to deal with it, as I am not planning to stop pitying you willing loners any time soon. I'd probably pity you even if the AIs were good. Actually, I likely would, as you would just be more convinced that a human wasn't as much fun.

Humans are social creatures after all. I enjoy doing anything more so when I have company. It's more fun to shop with someone, it is more fun to bake with someone, it is more fun to watch a movie with someone. I even like reading a book knowing someone else is in the room.


I think you are overlooking the fact that men sometimes just want to get away from massive twats like you and would rather deal with a dumb AI then listen to your condescending bs. I pity your husband.

(in reply to DSWargamer)
Post #: 115
RE: Games that let you down - 9/28/2013 1:33:15 AM   
Perturabo


Posts: 2586
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DSWargamer

They removed the one aspect from the experience that mattered. Being with friends.

I would never have gotten interested in wargames, if my first encounter had been with one on a machine though, and that includes every wargame we've ever seen. My first taste was Tactic II and my reply was 'wow, almost like chess, but so much more detailed'. Then I discovered Squad Leader and Panzer Blitz and Third Reich. But they were all played with local friends. And Squad Leader will always be the ABBA game as my regular local friend opponent was Swedish and we played a lot of ABBA when we gamed. Third Reich was also impacted by the way my silly friend would act all ridiculous while being the Germans. He usually played the Germans so I tended to act very silly as the Allies. To listen to us, you would have thought we were completely nuts.

None of that exists with games where it is just you and the machine. I actually feel pity if you have come to LIKE being just you and the machine and a dreadfully stupid opponent. You might not like my pity, but you are going to have to deal with it, as I am not planning to stop pitying you willing loners any time soon. I'd probably pity you even if the AIs were good. Actually, I likely would, as you would just be more convinced that a human wasn't as much fun.

Humans are social creatures after all. I enjoy doing anything more so when I have company. It's more fun to shop with someone, it is more fun to bake with someone, it is more fun to watch a movie with someone. I even like reading a book knowing someone else is in the room.

A wild extrovert appears!

It's not true for all humans. About half of humans are introverts and become exhausted when spending too much time on social interaction and regenerate when alone.
When I go to play boardgames with people (they aren't friends because none of them has time for new friends), I'm exhausted after a few hours of playing. It's as exhausting as several hours of studying for exams or office work.

To many of us gaming and research is the much needed time alone necessary for regeneration.
When it comes to the limited and exhausting social time, I'd rather meet someone in caffee or go for a walk with someone and have a nice few hour conversation than waste it playing games where most of people are focused on game and don't talk much.

_____________________________

People shouldn't ask themselves why schools get shoot up.
They should ask themselves why people who finish schools burned out due to mobbing aren't receiving high enough compensations to not seek vengeance.

(in reply to DSWargamer)
Post #: 116
RE: Games that let you down - 9/28/2013 1:59:54 AM   
Agathosdaimon


Posts: 1019
Joined: 7/8/2012
Status: offline
i happily play both sp and mp while my partner works next to my - the downside is that i just end up feeling guilty while she works on research papers and i am mulling over whether to assault a hex on East Front 2 or not on PBEM game. Actually PBEM can still be a very solo experience, but just has the added email discussion that comes between turns.
I am not sure that the old SSI Battles of Napoleon used cheating algorithms, did the AI have FOW disadvantages or not i am not sure, but it is a tough game still and tough in the right way ie, lazy strategy will defeat the player. there are few old games that let me down but Grabowskis Blue and the Gray did with its tactical battles that have a nigh on impossible interface to operation. I think though Impressions Games micro miniatures series were all pretty badly implemented with their interfaces - Charge of the Light Brigade, DDay beginning of the End, Conquest of Japan (that one is very hard i found), Cohort... etc
Call of Duty MW3 was a let down with its cheesy plot and though the action is fun, the first stages where the armies are fighting in NY seems unrealistic - what navy would just cram all its ships haphazardly into the harbour of an as yet unoccupied city and then also put troops on the ground amid skyscrapers and buildings where every opportunity exists to attack from above - it might look neat but it doesnt really suggest "modern" warfare to me .
Actually maybe some can recreate this is Command Modern Air/Naval Ops and see what happens - hmm i might see how that plays out, if that game has special forces units that can board and occupy an enemy sub

(in reply to Perturabo)
Post #: 117
RE: Games that let you down - 9/28/2013 3:33:34 AM   
Aurelian

 

Posts: 4152
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

To many of us gaming and research is the much needed time alone necessary for regeneration.
When it comes to the limited and exhausting social time, I'd rather meet someone in caffee or go for a walk with someone and have a nice few hour conversation than waste it playing games where most of people are focused on game and don't talk much.


This.

Just spent a pleasant five hours with a friend who doesn't understand, and has no desire to play these game.

But we watched movies, had snacks, talked. Very nice, very relaxing.

_____________________________


(in reply to Perturabo)
Post #: 118
RE: Games that let you down - 9/28/2013 10:28:56 AM   
Punzer

 

Posts: 38
Joined: 10/19/2007
From: Michigan
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

quote:

ORIGINAL: DSWargamer

They removed the one aspect from the experience that mattered. Being with friends.

I would never have gotten interested in wargames, if my first encounter had been with one on a machine though, and that includes every wargame we've ever seen. My first taste was Tactic II and my reply was 'wow, almost like chess, but so much more detailed'. Then I discovered Squad Leader and Panzer Blitz and Third Reich. But they were all played with local friends. And Squad Leader will always be the ABBA game as my regular local friend opponent was Swedish and we played a lot of ABBA when we gamed. Third Reich was also impacted by the way my silly friend would act all ridiculous while being the Germans. He usually played the Germans so I tended to act very silly as the Allies. To listen to us, you would have thought we were completely nuts.

None of that exists with games where it is just you and the machine. I actually feel pity if you have come to LIKE being just you and the machine and a dreadfully stupid opponent. You might not like my pity, but you are going to have to deal with it, as I am not planning to stop pitying you willing loners any time soon. I'd probably pity you even if the AIs were good. Actually, I likely would, as you would just be more convinced that a human wasn't as much fun.

Humans are social creatures after all. I enjoy doing anything more so when I have company. It's more fun to shop with someone, it is more fun to bake with someone, it is more fun to watch a movie with someone. I even like reading a book knowing someone else is in the room.


A wild extrovert appears!

It's not true for all humans. About half of humans are introverts and become exhausted when spending too much time on social interaction and regenerate when alone.
When I go to play boardgames with people (they aren't friends because none of them has time for new friends), I'm exhausted after a few hours of playing. It's as exhausting as several hours of studying for exams or office work.

To many of us gaming and research is the much needed time alone necessary for regeneration.
When it comes to the limited and exhausting social time, I'd rather meet someone in caffee or go for a walk with someone and have a nice few hour conversation than waste it playing games where most of people are focused on game and don't talk much.


I'm the only one in my circle that works midnights and finding time to be with my wife is challenging enough to substantially reduce the frequency and duration of my face-to-face visits with friends. All two of them! For their part, they are likewise time-challenged, reducing the visits even further. Back in the '80s, when we were still in school and had time to burn, visits were almost daily. They turned weekly in the '90s and nowadays, except for the last few months of each year, we might get a visit or two in each season. We were avid gamers back in school and we are gamers still, though with less time to play. We still occasionally find time to play each other in multiplayer games, but my friends also play games like World of Warcraft and World of Tanks. I do not. Unlike them, I prefer to game with friends or by myself. They've told me way too many tales of woe about the semi-regular parade of random ill-behaved idiots that populate any server on any game at any time. Though they have tried to reassure me that most people play nice, this is the only lottery I'm likely to win and so I refuse to play! For me, playing against an AI or playing against myself is a fun alternative. I'd rather not play than play against random opponents and I'd rather play than not play. So you pity me? I don't feel as though I'm an unfortunate man. I am not suffering due to my circumstances. But so be it. Pity me if it makes you feel better.

I want to second Perturabo here. Conversation is what we value most in these rare visits. When we do game during visits, games are chosen that can be played quickly and don't intrude on the conversation.

(in reply to Aurelian)
Post #: 119
RE: Games that let you down - 9/28/2013 5:40:09 PM   
Gilmer


Posts: 1430
Joined: 7/1/2011
Status: offline
I'm going to spend about 5 hours eating and watching American football! And it's doubly great because my favorite team and the college I went to is #1 right now and has won 3 out of the last 4 national championships! Life is good!

_____________________________

"Venimus, vidimus, Deus vicit" John III Sobieski as he entered Vienna on 9/11/1683. "I came, I saw, God conquered."
He that has a mind to fight, let him fight, for now is the time. - Anacreon

(in reply to Punzer)
Post #: 120
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