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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Scenario Design and Modding >> DaBigBabes and AI Page: [1]
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DaBigBabes and AI - 9/22/2013 10:47:17 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


Posts: 4076
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Toronto and Lima
Status: offline 		I read it is not advisable to play DaBigBabes against the AI

But my question is: If I am playing as Japan, are they measure that can be taken to mitigate Allied AI's shortcomings? maybe follow a very historical play? maybe go with "very hard" AI difficulty?


thanks in advance

EDIT: Would the AI hold is ground for 6 months? 1 year? I guess it will probably fail to plan good offensive campaigns.. but as long as it can play the defensive phase, it will be good.


< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 9/23/2013 12:48:31 AM >

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RE: DaBigBabes and AI - 9/23/2013 6:07:32 AM   
Yaab


Posts: 4140
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline 		I would also like to hear the answers. Heard so many warnings not to play against Allied AI in DaBigBabes. Is it really that bad?

(in reply to Jorge_Stanbury)
Post #: 2
RE: DaBigBabes and AI - 9/23/2013 6:26:43 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6060
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline 		Any mod which uses the enhanced map ie the one with the extra bases, is quite unsuitable for play against the AI because the AI scripts have not been rewritten. Thus the AI does not recognise and therefore does not plan for, the new bases.

Symon has been quite clear on playing the AI. Provided it is the standard map, the stock scripts retain their value for play against the Japanese AI. The AI doesn't really use properly the different logistical units introduced into DaBabes. This tends to impact more on the Allied side and is a factor in why playing the Allied AI is not recommended.

However, if a player shows considerable restraint, there is always some benefit in playing against the AI notwithstanding which mod is used.

Alfred

(in reply to Yaab)
Post #: 3
RE: DaBigBabes and AI - 9/23/2013 7:41:50 AM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 7569
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline 		DaBigBabes works (decently) only against Japanese AI. Against Allied AI, it's no go.

DaBigBabes is more for PBEM, but you can get decent game vs. Japanese AI. If you want fully functional game vs. AI on both sides, play DaLiteBabes. Latter is compatible with AI scripts.

< Message edited by Sardaukar -- 9/23/2013 7:43:32 AM >

_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 4
RE: DaBigBabes and AI - 9/23/2013 1:51:48 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


Posts: 4076
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Toronto and Lima
Status: offline 		Thanks for the answers

A pitty there is no way to play Japan; in my current scen1 game; it had become too easy to build bases from scratch in multiple places at the same time

but I will go Da-Babes as soon as I move to Allies

best regards



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Post #: 5
RE: DaBigBabes and AI - 10/6/2013 10:23:14 PM   
pcellsworth

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 4/28/2013
Status: offline 		Go ahead and modified the scripts. Its not real hard. I notice that it takes the AI a long time to attack Subic Bay. It will do so eventually.


(in reply to Jorge_Stanbury)
Post #: 6
RE: DaBigBabes and AI - 8/12/2014 9:23:38 AM   
Tanaka


Posts: 3265
Joined: 4/8/2003
From: USA
Status: offline 		The AI cannot use the extended map but can it use the new asia roads or does that include the extended map as well? Is there a version of the vanilla map with new asia roads?

https://sites.google.com/site/dababeswitpae/map-and-art/new-asia-roads

< Message edited by Tanaka -- 8/12/2014 10:24:31 AM >

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RE: DaBigBabes and AI - 8/13/2014 4:23:01 PM   
Symon


Posts: 1928
Joined: 11/24/2012
From: De Eye-lands, Mon
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka
The AI cannot use the extended map ....

Sigh … Once again, I must respond to misinformation. Tanaka, I thought you knew better. You been around long enough to understand the gloss on the AI thing. Gosh !

The AI certainly CAN use the extended map. There is NOTHING that says it can’t. The extended map has extra bases and a (very) few of these are in new hex locations.

The EM bases, like Abadan and Aden are in exactly the same slot locations as they are in Stock, so that is a non-issue.

Then, there’s AB’s North India slot expansion. Since nobody ever goes there, it’s WTF. If they ever do, the AI plays on its “INTERNAL” calls and will do this and that, without regard to scripts.

Then, there’s the other new bases and hexes (in new slots), like Subic Bay and Shortlands, and a couple places in Malaya. The “scripts” can’t see these, but they are all next door to a “script initiated” target, so the “INTERNAL” AI will recognize them and deal with them in the normal course.

If you play a BabesLite Scenario B, using the Extended Map, you are completely and totally compatible with any and all AI files written for Stock, including Andy’s latest and greatest.

Is there any way I can make this more clear?


_____________________________

Nous n'avons pas peur! Vive la liberté! Moi aussi je suis Charlie!
Yippy Ki Yay.

(in reply to Tanaka)
Post #: 8
RE: DaBigBabes and AI - 8/13/2014 7:30:19 PM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 7569
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline 		Is there any new(er) AI files that'd work well with DaLiteBabes A? Even better if DaBigBabes A?

_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


(in reply to Symon)
Post #: 9
RE: DaBigBabes and AI - 8/14/2014 5:32:31 PM   
Symon


Posts: 1928
Joined: 11/24/2012
From: De Eye-lands, Mon
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar
Is there any new(er) AI files that'd work well with DaLiteBabes A? Even better if DaBigBabes A?

Every AI script, ever written, uses the basis Stock LCU slot listings. ALL the AI files use that basis. AndyMac's new stuff uses those same listings but sends them off on unusual missions.

IF A SCEN IS COMPATIBLE WITH STOCK AI, IT IS COMPATIBLE WITH ANY OTHER AI FILE WRITTEN FOR STOCK, TO EXACTLY THE SAME DEGREE.

BabesLite (A, B, or C) is compatible with any and all AI scripts written for any and all stock scenarios. BabesLite (A, B, or C) is AI compatible with the Extended Map. BabesLite (A, B, or C) is AI compatible with Stacking Limits for the human player: the AI will not recognize them for computer play.

DaBigBabes (A, B, or C) can be played against a Japanese AI, no matter what AI files you use, just like BabesLite, or Stock.

DaBigBabes (A, B, or C) can be played against an Allied AI, but requires a great deal of thought and attention.

Ciao. JWE

_____________________________

Nous n'avons pas peur! Vive la liberté! Moi aussi je suis Charlie!
Yippy Ki Yay.

(in reply to Sardaukar)
Post #: 10
RE: DaBigBabes and AI - 8/14/2014 7:22:57 PM   
Big B

 

Posts: 4870
Joined: 6/1/2005
From: Old Los Angeles pre-1960
Status: offline 		.... yes.... but, ...will it work with the AI?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Symon
Sigh … Once again, I must respond to misinformation. ...

The AI certainly CAN use the extended map. There is NOTHING that says it can’t. The extended map has extra bases and a (very) few of these are in new hex locations.

The EM bases, like Abadan and Aden are in exactly the same slot locations as they are in Stock, so that is a non-issue.

Then, there’s AB’s North India slot expansion. Since nobody ever goes there, it’s WTF. If they ever do, the AI plays on its “INTERNAL” calls and will do this and that, without regard to scripts.

Then, there’s the other new bases and hexes (in new slots), like Subic Bay and Shortlands, and a couple places in Malaya. The “scripts” can’t see these, but they are all next door to a “script initiated” target, so the “INTERNAL” AI will recognize them and deal with them in the normal course.

If you play a BabesLite Scenario B, using the Extended Map, you are completely and totally compatible with any and all AI files written for Stock, including Andy’s latest and greatest.

Is there any way I can make this more clear?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Symon



Every AI script, ever written, uses the basis Stock LCU slot listings. ALL the AI files use that basis. AndyMac's new stuff uses those same listings but sends them off on unusual missions.

IF A SCEN IS COMPATIBLE WITH STOCK AI, IT IS COMPATIBLE WITH ANY OTHER AI FILE WRITTEN FOR STOCK, TO EXACTLY THE SAME DEGREE.

BabesLite (A, B, or C) is compatible with any and all AI scripts written for any and all stock scenarios. BabesLite (A, B, or C) is AI compatible with the Extended Map. BabesLite (A, B, or C) is AI compatible with Stacking Limits for the human player: the AI will not recognize them for computer play.

DaBigBabes (A, B, or C) can be played against a Japanese AI, no matter what AI files you use, just like BabesLite, or Stock.

DaBigBabes (A, B, or C) can be played against an Allied AI, but requires a great deal of thought and attention.

Ciao. JWE



_____________________________

Big B's Shipyard

(in reply to Symon)
Post #: 11
RE: DaBigBabes and AI - 8/15/2014 1:48:39 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9367
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Big B

.... yes.... but, ...will it work with the AI?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Symon
Sigh … Once again, I must respond to misinformation. ...

The AI certainly CAN use the extended map. There is NOTHING that says it can’t. The extended map has extra bases and a (very) few of these are in new hex locations.

The EM bases, like Abadan and Aden are in exactly the same slot locations as they are in Stock, so that is a non-issue.

Then, there’s AB’s North India slot expansion. Since nobody ever goes there, it’s WTF. If they ever do, the AI plays on its “INTERNAL” calls and will do this and that, without regard to scripts.

Then, there’s the other new bases and hexes (in new slots), like Subic Bay and Shortlands, and a couple places in Malaya. The “scripts” can’t see these, but they are all next door to a “script initiated” target, so the “INTERNAL” AI will recognize them and deal with them in the normal course.

If you play a BabesLite Scenario B, using the Extended Map, you are completely and totally compatible with any and all AI files written for Stock, including Andy’s latest and greatest.

Is there any way I can make this more clear?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Symon



Every AI script, ever written, uses the basis Stock LCU slot listings. ALL the AI files use that basis. AndyMac's new stuff uses those same listings but sends them off on unusual missions.

IF A SCEN IS COMPATIBLE WITH STOCK AI, IT IS COMPATIBLE WITH ANY OTHER AI FILE WRITTEN FOR STOCK, TO EXACTLY THE SAME DEGREE.

BabesLite (A, B, or C) is compatible with any and all AI scripts written for any and all stock scenarios. BabesLite (A, B, or C) is AI compatible with the Extended Map. BabesLite (A, B, or C) is AI compatible with Stacking Limits for the human player: the AI will not recognize them for computer play.

DaBigBabes (A, B, or C) can be played against a Japanese AI, no matter what AI files you use, just like BabesLite, or Stock.

DaBigBabes (A, B, or C) can be played against an Allied AI, but requires a great deal of thought and attention.

Ciao. JWE



Hard to say ... John is really fence sitting on the whole question here. Wish he would stop beating around the bush and just answer the question.



_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to Big B)
Post #: 12
RE: DaBigBabes and AI - 8/15/2014 2:33:35 PM   
oldman45


Posts: 2324
Joined: 5/1/2005
From: Jacksonville Fl
Status: offline 		You two just have to poke the bear don't ya....

_____________________________


(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 13
RE: DaBigBabes and AI - 8/15/2014 4:46:06 PM   
Symon


Posts: 1928
Joined: 11/24/2012
From: De Eye-lands, Mon
Status: offline 		Does a bear shake in the woods? Ummm, you betcha.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Nous n'avons pas peur! Vive la liberté! Moi aussi je suis Charlie!
Yippy Ki Yay.

(in reply to oldman45)
Post #: 14
RE: DaBigBabes and AI - 8/15/2014 5:43:34 PM   
oldman45


Posts: 2324
Joined: 5/1/2005
From: Jacksonville Fl
Status: offline 		Oh thats a good one!!


_____________________________


(in reply to Symon)
Post #: 15
RE: DaBigBabes and AI - 8/18/2014 12:16:40 PM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 7569
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline 		Excellent!

_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


(in reply to oldman45)
Post #: 16
RE: DaBigBabes and AI - 11/26/2019 3:45:11 AM   
Tanaka


Posts: 3265
Joined: 4/8/2003
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Symon


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka
The AI cannot use the extended map ....

Sigh … Once again, I must respond to misinformation. Tanaka, I thought you knew better. You been around long enough to understand the gloss on the AI thing. Gosh !

The AI certainly CAN use the extended map. There is NOTHING that says it can’t. The extended map has extra bases and a (very) few of these are in new hex locations.

The EM bases, like Abadan and Aden are in exactly the same slot locations as they are in Stock, so that is a non-issue.

Then, there’s AB’s North India slot expansion. Since nobody ever goes there, it’s WTF. If they ever do, the AI plays on its “INTERNAL” calls and will do this and that, without regard to scripts.

Then, there’s the other new bases and hexes (in new slots), like Subic Bay and Shortlands, and a couple places in Malaya. The “scripts” can’t see these, but they are all next door to a “script initiated” target, so the “INTERNAL” AI will recognize them and deal with them in the normal course.

If you play a BabesLite Scenario B, using the Extended Map, you are completely and totally compatible with any and all AI files written for Stock, including Andy’s latest and greatest.

Is there any way I can make this more clear?



Thanks this sums it up nicely! Thanks for your work!


quote:

ORIGINAL: Symon

Okay. Here’s the deal with the new BabesLite. All Babes (BabesLite, BigBabes, IronBabes) will have the same base file data (devices, planes, etc..). All Ship Classes will be the same except for C versions (and yes, we are adding a BabesLite-C) which have the reduced cargo capacities. All Ship files will be the same except for IronBabes which has AndyMac’s Hakku Ichiu additions. What’s different is the Locations file.

The TO&Es will be redone so everybody has the same TO&E section. However, the OOBs will be very different. BabesLite will not have the OOB additions and modifications of BigBabes. This is so BabesLite can be played using ANY stock GC AI file.

Think this should work out nicely. BabesLite will become 90+% of BigBabes and be AI compatible. Players can work themselves up against the AI before they tackle a PBEM opponent using DBB without worrying too much about getting blind-sided by lots of new stuff.

It also lets us update things between and among the scenarios more efficiently.



_____________________________


(in reply to Symon)
Post #: 17
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