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And now the waiting begins - Xargun (Japs) vs RRoberson... - 8/27/2013 3:31:34 AM   
Xargun

 

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Wow I'm back at it. Its been nearly 2 years since I last played AE and looks like Rob and I are going to go at it again. We have decided on the following:

Scenario: DaIronBabes-B
Map: Extended with Stacking Limits
Turn Length: 2 days

Rest of the settings are fairly typical (PDU: On; Allied Damage Control: On; Auto Subs: Off) for Rob and I. I have started the game up to change my turn 1 orders (Surprise on - historic turn off) and I am overpowered with a sense of awe once again. I haven't picked up AE, read the forums, or anything for 2 years and now I'm diving back into the deep end with a new mod with drastic changes and new ships. You can say I'm a bit intimidated. Not only is the OOB different, but with now with Stacking Limits and 2 day turns it will be a completely new experience.

Tomorrow at work I will begin my normal task of redesigning all my spreadsheets of aircraft stats, resource locations, etc... and begin making the plans that will lead to my ultimate victory (I hope).

I am looking for any and all advice on this Mod as well as scenario 2 which it is based off of - I have never played a DaBabes Mod or scenario 2 so I have lots to learn and little time to master.

This game I want a Big target, not just the usual take the DEI, Burma and such, but an actual end game target - like OZ, India, China, Russia, etc... I have never tried for any of these elusive targets and want to catch Rob off guard. We have agreed to no House Rules - so I need to be careful when taking Oil centers as Rob is fond of bombing them flat if not protected by fighters. I usually make good headway into China but never completed the conquer. Where should I head ? Should I be bold and take India like a lot of people do now ? Or should I take OZ ? Please chime in and let me know what you think - would like to see, etc...



< Message edited by Xargun -- 2/20/2014 8:50:20 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: End of Western Hypocrisy - or Xargun (Japs) vs RRob... - 8/27/2013 12:31:02 PM   
PaxMondo


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Sorry, no exp with this mod.

Scen 2, the biggest issue is that you get a LOT of pilots, and they will consume a LOT of HI in the late game. Be sure you are prepared for the expense.

You start a bit stronger to start, so you can expand beyond historical boundaries. The catch there is that you have to be prepared to rapidly shrink your perimeter when the tide changes else you will have many units cut-off to your detriment.

Finally, and this is from observation only, refineries do NOT produce supply, so your supply situation needs to be continuously monitored carefully. Industry expansion can cripple your war effort due to lack of supply.

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Pax

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RE: End of Western Hypocrisy - or Xargun (Japs) vs RRob... - 8/27/2013 1:32:20 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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I'd like to see a credible attempt at taking Hawaii in a stacking limits game. The garrison reqs won't break Japan as they can in Oz or India. The amphib bonus is also on Japan's side in such a campaign. When/if the need to withdraw comes it's not a long slog overland to loading ports either.

Some Allied players claim that losing Pearl wouldn't affect them much. I think it would be back-breaking, but not necessarily fatal. It would give you a completely different 1942, however.

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RE: End of Western Hypocrisy - or Xargun (Japs) vs RRob... - 8/27/2013 3:53:00 PM   
Xargun

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Sorry, no exp with this mod.

Scen 2, the biggest issue is that you get a LOT of pilots, and they will consume a LOT of HI in the late game. Be sure you are prepared for the expense.

You start a bit stronger to start, so you can expand beyond historical boundaries. The catch there is that you have to be prepared to rapidly shrink your perimeter when the tide changes else you will have many units cut-off to your detriment.

Finally, and this is from observation only, refineries do NOT produce supply, so your supply situation needs to be continuously monitored carefully. Industry expansion can cripple your war effort due to lack of supply.


I usually have a large stockpile of HI as the game goes on. My longest game went in late 42 and I had over a million stockpiled but that was normal scenario 1 but I'll keep an eye on it.

No supply from refineries huh ? Used to be 9 fuel and 1 supply right ? Is it 10 fuel now ?

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RE: End of Western Hypocrisy - or Xargun (Japs) vs RRob... - 8/27/2013 3:56:39 PM   
Xargun

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

I'd like to see a credible attempt at taking Hawaii in a stacking limits game. The garrison reqs won't break Japan as they can in Oz or India. The amphib bonus is also on Japan's side in such a campaign. When/if the need to withdraw comes it's not a long slog overland to loading ports either.

Some Allied players claim that losing Pearl wouldn't affect them much. I think it would be back-breaking, but not necessarily fatal. It would give you a completely different 1942, however.


I don't believe taking Hawaii is worth the costs involved. You will lose a lot of units taking the island and there's not much there. It is only a forward staging area with some organic resources. I think it would definately make '42 quiet as the US would have a hard time fielding any attacks against it due to distance from the west coast, but once 43 comes along they will easily take it back and with a horde of subs they can effectively isolate it for much of 42. Not sure I have the skill to take Hawaii and make it useful. I am an ok player, who excels at the Japanese economy (at least I think so) and taking Hawaii would require more skill than I believe I have.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
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RE: End of Western Hypocrisy - or Xargun (Japs) vs RRob... - 8/27/2013 4:21:05 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Xargun


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

I'd like to see a credible attempt at taking Hawaii in a stacking limits game. The garrison reqs won't break Japan as they can in Oz or India. The amphib bonus is also on Japan's side in such a campaign. When/if the need to withdraw comes it's not a long slog overland to loading ports either.

Some Allied players claim that losing Pearl wouldn't affect them much. I think it would be back-breaking, but not necessarily fatal. It would give you a completely different 1942, however.


I don't believe taking Hawaii is worth the costs involved. You will lose a lot of units taking the island and there's not much there. It is only a forward staging area with some organic resources. I think it would definately make '42 quiet as the US would have a hard time fielding any attacks against it due to distance from the west coast, but once 43 comes along they will easily take it back and with a horde of subs they can effectively isolate it for much of 42. Not sure I have the skill to take Hawaii and make it useful. I am an ok player, who excels at the Japanese economy (at least I think so) and taking Hawaii would require more skill than I believe I have.



Then don't try India or Oz. They have a lot more hills to climb.

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RE: End of Western Hypocrisy - or Xargun (Japs) vs RRob... - 8/27/2013 4:23:26 PM   
Xargun

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Then don't try India or Oz. They have a lot more hills to climb.


So you think Taking and using Hawaii correctly is harder than taking India or Oz ?

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Post #: 7
RE: End of Western Hypocrisy - or Xargun (Japs) vs RRob... - 8/27/2013 4:32:33 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Xargun


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Then don't try India or Oz. They have a lot more hills to climb.


So you think Taking and using Hawaii correctly is harder than taking India or Oz ?



No, much easier.

Both Oz and India offer the Allies multiple routes to respond, from multiple directions. Hawaii is a function of

1) Bringing enough to get the job done quickly

2) Taking at least one, and better two, major AFs on outer islands before landing on Oahu

3) Bringing all the trim, especially mines, engineers, and a lot of ASW given how bad Japanese ASW is at the start.

Take Hawaii and you force the US to be a "lateral" performer. Nothing can go straight across the Pac. Midway is a goner. So should be Christmas and Palmyra pretty easily. You force the USN back to the WC and that's 2000 miles. If Japan wants to carrier raid Seattle and bomb the aircraft factories the US may or may not see them coming. Etc.

The garrison reqs on Oahu are less than you need to hold the island anyway. The reqs to keep Bombay, Calcutta, Sydney, Melbourne are division-plus each. And if you fail to take the whole nation you're a long way from anywhere. Plus, Oz and India have emergency reinforcement packages.

I'm not saying it's smart to try to take any of them. But of the three I think Hawaii is the easiest.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 8/27/2013 4:33:33 PM >


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RE: End of Western Hypocrisy - or Xargun (Japs) vs RRob... - 8/27/2013 4:43:07 PM   
Xargun

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
No, much easier.

Both Oz and India offer the Allies multiple routes to respond, from multiple directions. Hawaii is a function of

1) Bringing enough to get the job done quickly

2) Taking at least one, and better two, major AFs on outer islands before landing on Oahu

3) Bringing all the trim, especially mines, engineers, and a lot of ASW given how bad Japanese ASW is at the start.

Take Hawaii and you force the US to be a "lateral" performer. Nothing can go straight across the Pac. Midway is a goner. So should be Christmas and Palmyra pretty easily. You force the USN back to the WC and that's 2000 miles. If Japan wants to carrier raid Seattle and bomb the aircraft factories the US may or may not see them coming. Etc.

The garrison reqs on Oahu are less than you need to hold the island anyway. The reqs to keep Bombay, Calcutta, Sydney, Melbourne are division-plus each. And if you fail to take the whole nation you're a long way from anywhere. Plus, Oz and India have emergency reinforcement packages.

I'm not saying it's smart to try to take any of them. But of the three I think Hawaii is the easiest.


So how long into the game do you think its reasonable to take Hawaii ? A week is too long ? 2 weeks ? We have decided on basically a historical start, but I can modify orders to reflect that we are using 2 day turns, so turning everything around to hit Hawaii is not a possibility on turn 1.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
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RE: End of Western Hypocrisy - or Xargun (Japs) vs RRob... - 8/27/2013 5:29:02 PM   
Lokasenna


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The Allied player does not have very much sealift capability at the start of the war, and for the USN about half of it is located at Pearl itself. It's almost a two-week round trip to the West Coast from there. There are some significant units on the West Coast that can respond to a Hawaii danger (USMC Defense Battalions come to mind), but he still has to get them there using limited APs and AKs.

I think in order to take Hawaii in December, you'd need to forgo a second day strike on Pearl to preserve sorties on your CVs. At least that's what I'd do. I'd move them north and disappear up there for a bit while other things came towards Pearl.

Has anyone tried moving on it immediately, with the Day 1 magic movement? It might be something I should try in an AI game...

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Post #: 10
RE: End of Western Hypocrisy - or Xargun (Japs) vs RRob... - 8/27/2013 6:16:18 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Xargun


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
No, much easier.

Both Oz and India offer the Allies multiple routes to respond, from multiple directions. Hawaii is a function of

1) Bringing enough to get the job done quickly

2) Taking at least one, and better two, major AFs on outer islands before landing on Oahu

3) Bringing all the trim, especially mines, engineers, and a lot of ASW given how bad Japanese ASW is at the start.

Take Hawaii and you force the US to be a "lateral" performer. Nothing can go straight across the Pac. Midway is a goner. So should be Christmas and Palmyra pretty easily. You force the USN back to the WC and that's 2000 miles. If Japan wants to carrier raid Seattle and bomb the aircraft factories the US may or may not see them coming. Etc.

The garrison reqs on Oahu are less than you need to hold the island anyway. The reqs to keep Bombay, Calcutta, Sydney, Melbourne are division-plus each. And if you fail to take the whole nation you're a long way from anywhere. Plus, Oz and India have emergency reinforcement packages.

I'm not saying it's smart to try to take any of them. But of the three I think Hawaii is the easiest.


So how long into the game do you think its reasonable to take Hawaii ? A week is too long ? 2 weeks ? We have decided on basically a historical start, but I can modify orders to reflect that we are using 2 day turns, so turning everything around to hit Hawaii is not a possibility on turn 1.



I think you need to be landing on Maui/Hawaii/Molokai etc. inside ten days at the most. Be on Oahu in two weeks. A pure historical start makes that pretty hard.

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The Moose

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RE: End of Western Hypocrisy - or Xargun (Japs) vs RRob... - 8/27/2013 11:18:53 PM   
Xargun

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
I think you need to be landing on Maui/Hawaii/Molokai etc. inside ten days at the most. Be on Oahu in two weeks. A pure historical start makes that pretty hard.


Yeah I doubt I could reorg and do that without the day 1 bonus movement. I have pondered what will make this game different than all the others I've played and I've decided on a few targets - both big and small. I don't want to say anything yet as a lot of it will depend on how well the first couple weeks of the war goes, but I've always wanted to do a couple things and I think this game will be the one in which I do it - provided the allies don't get some lucky shots in and damage / sink valuable assets.

Give me a week or two (in game) and I'll flesh out my plan more.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
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RE: End of Western Hypocrisy - or Xargun (Japs) vs RRob... - 8/28/2013 1:29:59 AM   
desicat

 

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I don't think taking India is possible in DaBabes because of the map modifications and the triggered reinforcements. Karachi should prove impossible to take. Stacking limits also hurt the Japanese here, see Mr Kane vs Greyjoy.

In Oz there is also a reinforcement line and many heavy urban hexes in the far south. A failed attempt here leave a large number of troops cut off.

As far as I have seen a Hawaii invasion has not been successfully accomplished.

China can be taken, especially with a heavy air investment.

The one avenue that intrigues me is the North American bombing campaign that Panzerjaeger Hortlund begins to explore at the middle of the page at the link. I can't remember exactly where, but in Canoe Rebels AAR (War and Peas) Alfred chimes in and details how this approach could be leveraged to bring about a Japanese Auto Victory. PJH didn't start with this type campaign in mind but really put the fear of xxx in CR.

If you began the game with this strategy in mind it could lead to a really exciting end to 1942. It also allows for an easier withdrawal in case auto victory isn't achieved (IMHO of course).

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RE: End of Western Hypocrisy - or Xargun (Japs) vs RRob... - 8/29/2013 12:58:21 AM   
Xargun

 

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While I wait for Turn 2 (day 3 & 4) back from Rob thought I would mention turn 1. In the first interation of Turn 1 I ordered KB to stay at Pearl to hit her again on day 2. With Rob not allowed to make any changes guess what happened ? Yep - Enterprise showed up like 4 hexes away and chaos ensued. I have some Vals set for Naval Attack to pick off any ships, and they hammered Enterprise and she hammered Akagi. I stopped the turn as I knew Rob would not be happy losing a CV on turn 1 and neither would I. So we agreed on historical start and turn 1 was run again.

All PH BBs were hit with at least 1 torp and both the Arizona and Nevada were confirmed sunk along with a couple PTs.
Force Z was sighted and attacked with multipl waves of Netties, but CAP from Singapore and luck were with the Brits, and only a single torpedo hit the Repulse and POW escaped unharmed.

Thats about everything for turn 1 - lots of bombing runs but nothing major.

I'm hoping to finish off Force Z with Netties if he tries to interfere with my landings in Malaya, but I still wish I had sunk them both. I am playing it safe across most of the map on turn 2 since I'm not sure where he will be running his warships around yet and most of my surface ships in theater are already escorting TFs.

So now the economy... Have aircraft stats changed much in the past 2 years ? Below is my normal aircraft of choice - please let me know if anything has changed with them.

IJN:
A6M2 Zero
D3A1 Val
B5N2 Kate
G3M2 Nell
G4M1 Betty
H6K4 Mavis
C5M2 Babs
L3Y2 Tina
E13A1 Jake

IA:

Ki-43-Ic Oscar
Ki-30 Ann
Ki-21-Ic Sally
Ki-15-II Babs
MC-21 Sally


These will be my main aircraft for the next few months until new aircraft come online. What do you guys think ?

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RE: End of Western Hypocrisy - or Xargun (Japs) vs RRob... - 8/29/2013 2:24:37 AM   
Quixote


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For beginning aircraft, the list looks good. Couple of thoughts:

For your IJN transports, you really only have the Mavis and the Tina to choose from initially, and you don't have many units that use either of them, anyway. It may not be worth specializing at this point in the game, since both may come in handy. Having at least one or two transport groups with the ability to move units around between islands with no airfield (Mavis) can be very beneficial, especially early in the game.

On the IJA side, unless you are feeling frugal about existing engines, you may not need to produce any more Anns. With PDU on, throughout the course of the game you're probably going to upgrade many (most) of your level bomber units to 2-Engine models (Sally, Helen), which will leave you plenty of single engine bombers in your pools which can be used for training - no real need to build more. For the Sally, I guess the same thing applies. You already have the ability to produce IIa, which is faster and will suffer slightly less against early Allied fighters when you get uncoordinated strikes. (Doesn't look like you guys are using the Beta since you made no mention of it. Without Beta, you may not get too many uncoordinated strikes. With it, they are commonplace.) I know the IIa uses an engine you may be shorter on for the first month or two than the Ic does (and if you're frugal this matters) but I'm still a fan of building it anyway. In any SC2 variant, early production just to use up obsolete engines amounts to a drop in the bucket. Moot point either way in a few months when Helens arrive, though.

Lastly, tough break on Force Z. Those results were terrible. It'll make for much tougher sledding in the DEI early on.

(in reply to Xargun)
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RE: End of Western Hypocrisy - or Xargun (Japs) vs RRob... - 8/29/2013 2:55:43 AM   
Xargun

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Quixote

On the IJA side, unless you are feeling frugal about existing engines, you may not need to produce any more Anns. With PDU on, throughout the course of the game you're probably going to upgrade many (most) of your level bomber units to 2-Engine models (Sally, Helen), which will leave you plenty of single engine bombers in your pools which can be used for training - no real need to build more. For the Sally, I guess the same thing applies. You already have the ability to produce IIa, which is faster and will suffer slightly less against early Allied fighters when you get uncoordinated strikes. (Doesn't look like you guys are using the Beta since you made no mention of it. Without Beta, you may not get too many uncoordinated strikes. With it, they are commonplace.) I know the IIa uses an engine you may be shorter on for the first month or two than the Ic does (and if you're frugal this matters) but I'm still a fan of building it anyway. In any SC2 variant, early production just to use up obsolete engines amounts to a drop in the bucket. Moot point either way in a few months when Helens arrive, though.


I like the Ann because it is the best single engine plane and I like to use them in china on the smaller airfields where Sallies need a larger airfield to operate normally from.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Quixote
Lastly, tough break on Force Z. Those results were terrible. It'll make for much tougher sledding in the DEI early on.


Yeah thats why I'm being extra careful on turn 2 (day 3 & 4) until I see if I can bag Force Z yet, as well as where the other warships run to - especially the Houston and the DDs from Hong Kong. Most initial landings are sufficiently covered but not much is on the front line to fight a CA or DDs - SCs and PBs won't cut it. Better safe than sorry.

(in reply to Quixote)
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RE: End of Western Hypocrisy - or Xargun (Japs) vs RRob... - 8/29/2013 3:39:15 AM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Xargun
I like the Ann because it is the best single engine plane and I like to use them in china on the smaller airfields where Sallies need a larger airfield to operate normally from.

+1
Best range of the IJ 1E, still a woefully small bombload, but you gotta play the hand you are dealt.

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RE: End of Western Hypocrisy - or Xargun (Japs) vs RRob... - 8/29/2013 10:34:08 PM   
Xargun

 

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Does anyone know the hex lines in India, Oz and West Coast that trigger the release of extra units ?

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RE: End of Western Hypocrisy - or Xargun (Japs) vs RRob... - 8/29/2013 10:48:40 PM   
witpqs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Xargun

Does anyone know the hex lines in India, Oz and West Coast that trigger the release of extra units ?


India: One hex below Dehli (left to right across the map). Since certain patch (quite a while ago, now official) that also includes the islands in the Indian Ocean and the African bases that are at or above that line (example: Socotra).

Australia: One hex below Brisbane (left to right across the map).

For North America I don't recall but it is near Vancouver and is a hex row running up and down.

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RE: End of Western Hypocrisy - or Xargun (Japs) vs RRob... - 8/29/2013 11:46:41 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: Xargun

Does anyone know the hex lines in India, Oz and West Coast that trigger the release of extra units ?


India: One hex below Dehli (left to right across the map). Since certain patch (quite a while ago, now official) that also includes the islands in the Indian Ocean and the African bases that are at or above that line (example: Socotra).

Australia: One hex below Brisbane (left to right across the map).

For North America I don't recall but it is near Vancouver and is a hex row running up and down.


South of Vancouver, E-W.

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RE: End of Western Hypocrisy - or Xargun (Japs) vs RRob... - 8/30/2013 2:35:33 AM   
Xargun

 

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Thanks for the info guys. Not sure I will need it, but I like to have all options :) Also, any tips for playing 2 day turns ? I have never done this before and wonder if there are any tricks.

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Post #: 21
RE: End of Western Hypocrisy - or Xargun (Japs) vs RRob... - 8/30/2013 3:19:15 AM   
witpqs


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I have never done 2 day turns and plan never to.

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Post #: 22
RE: End of Western Hypocrisy - or Xargun (Japs) vs RRob... - 8/30/2013 2:37:40 PM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I have never done 2 day turns and plan never to.

+1

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Post #: 23
RE: End of Western Hypocrisy - or Xargun (Japs) vs RRob... - 8/30/2013 4:26:25 PM   
Xargun

 

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Since Rob is taking his time with the turn I am doing more planning. Is there anything I should be doing now (late 41 / early 42) that will help in the later months of the game - like aircraft R&D ? I don't mess with R&D much as it was to easy to game it. Has it been realistically fixed ? And if so, which airframes should I be looking to accelerate from the 43 / 44 list ?

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 24
RE: End of Western Hypocrisy - or Xargun (Japs) vs RRob... - 8/30/2013 4:36:03 PM   
Lokasenna


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Well, do you want to accelerate aircraft or not?!

Good frames to focus on early: accelerate the crap out of the A6M and Ki-43 production lines. The A6M is useful to get to the A6M5c quickly, which has Armor 1, and the Ki-43 is useful later as a Kami and the incremental upgrades until then aren't terrible. Allegedly it can still hold its own against some models of Allied fighters, but I still think you're better off with Tojos and then Franks.

Is DaIronBabes more similar to Scen 1 or Scen 2 in the number of aircraft/engine factories? I know Scen 2 has a lot more engine factories in particular, which allows you to get the engine bonus for research a bit easier while still researching engines like the Ha-43 and Ha-45. Also, does the Ki-44 use the Ha-34 or Ha-35 engine in this scenario?

Another must-accelerate is the D4Y. You want to get to the Y4 with its 800kg bomb as early as possible, which means accelerating the earlier Y1/Y2 and Y3 (which uses a different engine, along with the Y4).

The others come later, but there are some that you don't need to accelerate at all. The B6N2a comes to mind as the only difference between it and the B6N2 is radar, and it doesn't come online until the arrival date of the B6N2a anyway.

(in reply to Xargun)
Post #: 25
RE: End of Western Hypocrisy - or Xargun (Japs) vs RRob... - 8/30/2013 4:38:40 PM   
Xargun

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
Is DaIronBabes more similar to Scen 1 or Scen 2 in the number of aircraft/engine factories? I know Scen 2 has a lot more engine factories in particular, which allows you to get the engine bonus for research a bit easier while still researching engines like the Ha-43 and Ha-45. Also, does the Ki-44 use the Ha-34 or Ha-35 engine in this scenario?


What is this engine bonus you are talking about ? I've seen others talking about some sort of R&D bonus, but don't know what it is.

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 26
RE: End of Western Hypocrisy - or Xargun (Japs) vs RRob... - 8/30/2013 5:33:31 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9131
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
Once you have 500 engines in the pool, an R&D factory that produces one point (or +1% towards advancement) of an airframe that uses that engine, it will use up one of the engines and produce 2 points instead. E.g., if you have 510 Ha-35 engines in pool, 5 A6M5 factories researching at 30(0). After the turn, you'll have +10% towards advancing the airframe by a month, but 505 engines in the pool.

Yes, it makes the R&D cost more HI - 1800 more per extra month that you advance the airframe. This can really, really speed up your R&D, particularly on multi-model production lines that all use the same engine like the Ki-43 and A6M. This will require a lot of engines - if you have 5 A6M and 5 Ki-43 each using the engine bonus, you'll need 300 engines/month just for R&D alone! So you'll have to expend supply/HI to expand those factories that far. It may still be worth it.

Also, note that the A6M2-N Rufe upgrades to A6M5, while the A6M2 upgrades to A6M3, then A6M3a, before upgrading to A6M5. So if you want A6M5 R&D factories sooner, you may want to decide to "research" the Rufe and then switch the factories to A6M5 once the Rufe is coming online in April. This will get you the A6M5 sooner than going through A6M3->A6M3a->A6M5. Some may find that gamey.

(in reply to Xargun)
Post #: 27
RE: End of Western Hypocrisy - or Xargun (Japs) vs RRob... - 8/30/2013 6:34:33 PM   
Xargun

 

Posts: 3505
Joined: 2/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Once you have 500 engines in the pool, an R&D factory that produces one point (or +1% towards advancement) of an airframe that uses that engine, it will use up one of the engines and produce 2 points instead. E.g., if you have 510 Ha-35 engines in pool, 5 A6M5 factories researching at 30(0). After the turn, you'll have +10% towards advancing the airframe by a month, but 505 engines in the pool.

Yes, it makes the R&D cost more HI - 1800 more per extra month that you advance the airframe. This can really, really speed up your R&D, particularly on multi-model production lines that all use the same engine like the Ki-43 and A6M. This will require a lot of engines - if you have 5 A6M and 5 Ki-43 each using the engine bonus, you'll need 300 engines/month just for R&D alone! So you'll have to expend supply/HI to expand those factories that far. It may still be worth it.

Also, note that the A6M2-N Rufe upgrades to A6M5, while the A6M2 upgrades to A6M3, then A6M3a, before upgrading to A6M5. So if you want A6M5 R&D factories sooner, you may want to decide to "research" the Rufe and then switch the factories to A6M5 once the Rufe is coming online in April. This will get you the A6M5 sooner than going through A6M3->A6M3a->A6M5. Some may find that gamey.


Ahh I understand. So theoretically 1 Aircraft Factory doing R&D can generate 60% chance of moving the date up a month per month. So 2 Factories doing R&D can move the arrival date up 1 month every month. Interesting... Sounds a bit gamey if abused. I will check with Rob and see what he thinks.


< Message edited by Xargun -- 8/30/2013 6:35:00 PM >

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 28
RE: End of Western Hypocrisy - or Xargun (Japs) vs RRob... - 8/30/2013 6:44:30 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9131
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Xargun

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Once you have 500 engines in the pool, an R&D factory that produces one point (or +1% towards advancement) of an airframe that uses that engine, it will use up one of the engines and produce 2 points instead. E.g., if you have 510 Ha-35 engines in pool, 5 A6M5 factories researching at 30(0). After the turn, you'll have +10% towards advancing the airframe by a month, but 505 engines in the pool.

Yes, it makes the R&D cost more HI - 1800 more per extra month that you advance the airframe. This can really, really speed up your R&D, particularly on multi-model production lines that all use the same engine like the Ki-43 and A6M. This will require a lot of engines - if you have 5 A6M and 5 Ki-43 each using the engine bonus, you'll need 300 engines/month just for R&D alone! So you'll have to expend supply/HI to expand those factories that far. It may still be worth it.

Also, note that the A6M2-N Rufe upgrades to A6M5, while the A6M2 upgrades to A6M3, then A6M3a, before upgrading to A6M5. So if you want A6M5 R&D factories sooner, you may want to decide to "research" the Rufe and then switch the factories to A6M5 once the Rufe is coming online in April. This will get you the A6M5 sooner than going through A6M3->A6M3a->A6M5. Some may find that gamey.


Ahh I understand. So theoretically 1 Aircraft Factory doing R&D can generate 60% chance of moving the date up a month per month. So 2 Factories doing R&D can move the arrival date up 1 month every month. Interesting... Sounds a bit gamey if abused. I will check with Rob and see what he thinks.



There is the cost and effort of maintaining 500+ extra engines in the pool, but yes - it can be a big boon to R&D.

(in reply to Xargun)
Post #: 29
RE: End of Western Hypocrisy - or Xargun (Japs) vs RRob... - 8/30/2013 6:45:47 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 24987
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: Xargun

Does anyone know the hex lines in India, Oz and West Coast that trigger the release of extra units ?


India: One hex below Dehli (left to right across the map). Since certain patch (quite a while ago, now official) that also includes the islands in the Indian Ocean and the African bases that are at or above that line (example: Socotra).

Australia: One hex below Brisbane (left to right across the map).

For North America I don't recall but it is near Vancouver and is a hex row running up and down.


South of Vancouver, E-W.

I'm pretty sure the line in North America runs north-south. It prevents you from running across Canada without releasing US forces. The shape of the coastline also makes it effectively work in the other dimension as well, since if you go south to the mainland US you are back in the ocean.

_____________________________


(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 30
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