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Sea sections - 8/7/2013 4:48:16 PM   
Easo79


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Joined: 7/12/2013
From: Mallorca, Illes Balears
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When learning a rule, I am finding convenient to try to figure which event in the real war the rule is trying to simulate. Normally this is rather obvious and straightforward, even for me. But I am experiencing some difficulty with the “sections” located in the “sea-boxes”. What are they trying to represent? They are not simply different subregions of the sea zone, because they have different properties....but, are they related to distance from the shore? Or what is represented there, is some kind of abstraction, like “awareness” or “readiness”?....

There seems to be a hierarchical relationship among them during naval combat and they affect the shore bombardment power of the ships they contain, and for some reason this modification affects differentially (mmmm...not sure about this) the combat power of notional units versus “real” units during an invasion, depending on where the invading forces come from...

I am working hard on the rules with my pad at the beach , but this enigma seems too much for me with this suffocating heat, and I therefore make a humble appeal to the collective wisdom of the forum...



< Message edited by Easo79 -- 8/7/2013 5:01:49 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Sea sections - 8/7/2013 5:50:57 PM   
brian brian

 

Posts: 3135
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: online
The boxes in the sea zones represent time actually. The higher the box = more time the naval unit is spending in the sea zone = more tasks that naval unit can do = the more effectively the unit can do those tasks.

(in reply to Easo79)
Post #: 2
RE: Sea sections - 8/8/2013 4:05:14 PM   
Extraneous

 

Posts: 1810
Joined: 6/14/2008
Status: offline
Heavy cruiser HMAS Australia
Attack Factors ~ 3
Defense Factors ~ 6
Anti-aircraft Factors ~ 1
Shore Bombardment Factors ~ 1
Movement Allowance ~ 5
Range ~ 5


Light cruiser HMAS Adelaide
Attack Factors ~ 1
Defense Factors ~ 8
Anti-aircraft Factors ~ 0
Shore Bombardment Factors ~ 1
Movement Allowance ~ 4
Range ~ 2


Convoy point (abbreviated CP)
Attack Factors ~ 0
Defense Factors ~ 10
Anti-aircraft Factors ~ 0
Shore Bombardment Factors ~ 0
Movement Allowance ~ 3
Range ~ 3



quote:

2.4.1 When to check supply
Units at sea are always in supply.

8.2.4 Naval search numbers
The weather can affect the chances of finding and surprising naval forces at sea. It does this by altering the search numbers in each sea-box section during port attacks (see 11.2 Port attack), naval searches (see 11.5.5 Searching) and interceptions (see 11.4.6 Interception).

11.4 Naval movement
The range determines how far the unit can move; the movement allowance determines how effective it will be when it patrols a sea area.

Into and out of port
When you move a unit out of a port, you must spend its first point to move it into a surrounding sea area (e.g. naval units in Amsterdam must move directly into the North Sea).

There are three special cases:
Although Kiel is a coastal hex on the Baltic Sea, you can move naval units directly to Kiel from the North Sea and vice versa.

Although Suez is a coastal hex on the Red Sea, you can move naval units directly to Suez from the Eastern Mediterranean and vice
versa.

Although Panama City is a coastal hex on the Gulf of Mexico, you can move naval units directly to Panama from the Caribbean, and vice versa provided the Panama canal is not closed to you.

Similarly, a naval unit can only move into a port from the surrounding sea area. It could continue moving but, if it ends the naval move in port, turn it face-down (for convoy points, use a “CP used” marker instead).

Sea areas
When a moving unit or task force enters a sea area, it can either stop there and patrol or, if it has enough movement points and range, it can continue moving into an adjacent port or an adjacent sea area.

How far can units move?
A unit must stop moving when you have spent its entire movement allowance or it has reached the limit of its range, whichever happens first.

You spend 1 point of a unit’s range for each sea area and port it moves into.

You spend 1 point of a unit’s movement allowance:
For each sea area and port it moves into;
If it starts the movement out of supply;
If it starts the impulse in a port with naval units controlled by another major power; and
For each point of the (unmodified) search number of the section you put the unit into.

How does a unit patrol?
When a naval unit stops in a sea area, it is patrolling. To show this, you must put it into that area’s sea-box. You can put it in any section of the sea-box which has a (unmodified) search number less than or equal to the unit’s unused movement allowance. [This is different from the system used for naval air missions.]
A unit can only be in one section of a sea-box at a time. Other units could be in the same or different sections of the sea-box.

Convoy points can only ‘patrol’ in the 0 section of the sea-box, even if they have unused movement points.

If a unit started its naval move out of supply (see 2.4.2 Tracing supply), turn it facedown when it reaches a sea-box section.


quote:

Or you can read How far can units move? this way.

A unit must stop moving when you have spent its entire movement allowance or it has reached the limit of its range, whichever happens first.

When a naval unit moves to sea and:
Is out of supply it spends 1 point of its movement allowance (units at sea are always in supply).
Starts an impulse in a port with naval units controlled by another major power it spends 1 point of its movement allowance.

A naval unit spends 1 point of its range and 1 point of its movement allowance when it moves:
"From a port to a sea area"
"From a sea area to a port"
"From a sea area to a different sea area"

When a naval unit stops in a sea zone to be placed in sea box:
Zero it spends zero points of its movement allowance.
1 it must spend 1 point of its movement allowance.
2 it must spend 2 points of its movement allowance.
3 it must spend 3 points of its movement allowance.
4 it must spend 4 points of its movement allowance.




Here is how it works

This impulse
To move from a port to a sea area
You spend 1 point of a unit’s range for each sea area it moves into.
You spend 1 point of a unit’s movement allowance for each sea area it moves into.

To move from a sea area to a different sea area
You spend 1 point of a unit’s range for each sea area it moves into.
You spend 1 point of a unit’s movement allowance for each sea area it moves into.

Any of the ship examples above can perform both these moves.

But the Light cruiser HMAS Adelaide is at the limit of its range although it still has a movement allowance if 2 left. It can there for stop in this sea zone and use its remaining 2 movement allowance and can be placed in sea box Zero, 1, or 2.


At this point it cannot move "from a sea area to a different sea area" or "from a sea area to a port" this impulse.

Because to move from a sea area to a different sea area
You spend 1 point of a unit’s range for each sea area it moves into.
You spend 1 point of a unit’s movement allowance for each sea area it moves into.

Because to move from a sea area to a port
You spend 1 point of a unit’s range for each sea area it moves into.
You spend 1 point of a unit’s movement allowance for each sea area it moves into.



Now lets assume that the Heavy cruiser HMAS Australia and Light cruiser HMAS Adelaide are escorting a CP to this sea zone.

The CP can only patrol in sea box Zero.

The Light cruiser HMAS Adelaide can be placed in sea box Zero, 1, or 2.

The Heavy cruiser HMAS Australia can be placed in sea box Zero, 1, 2, or 3.



=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
The higher numbers of the sea box in the sea zone the more effective the naval units will be.

Lets look at an invasion with the Heavy cruiser HMAS Australia is transporting an INF 1-3 division.

The task force the Heavy cruiser HMAS Australia is transporting an INF 1-3 division is escorted by Light cruiser HMAS Adelaide from Broome, Australia.

Leaves Broome, Australia (minor port) and enters the Timor Sea and spends 1 point of its range and movement allowance.
Enters the South China Sea and spends 1 point of its range and movement allowance for the sea area.

The task force stops in the South China Sea.

The INF 1-3 division will invade the clear hex southwest of Pnom-Penh French Indo-china, which is controlled by Vichy France.

This is a surprise impulse and there is a Vichy French notational unit.

quote:

Sea Zone: South China Sea
Sea box Zero ~ No Shore bombardment is allowed
Sea box 1 ~ shore bombardment modifier 2*
Sea box 2 ~ shore bombardment modifier 1*
Sea box 3 ~ shore bombardment modifier 0*
Sea box 4 ~ shore bombardment modifier 0

If the weather is rain the asterisk means you add 1 to the shore bombardment modifier.

11.16.2 Shore bombardment
Shore bombarding SCS add their bombardment factors to an attack. Reduce the bombardment factor of each SCS by the bombardment modifier in its section of the sea-box (see weather effects on bombardment ~ 8.2.7 Land combat). You can’t bombard with SCS in the ‘0’ section (note the ‘none’ there).

Shore bombardment
Add 1 to a sea-box’s asterisked shore bombardment (see 11.16.2 Shore bombardment) modifiers for units in that sea-box bombarding a hex in rain or snow. For example, if the modifier is ‘0*’, treat it as a ‘1’ for units bombarding a hex in rain.

Your units cannot shore bombard a hex in storm or blizzard.

8.2.6 Invasions
You can’t invade (see 11.14 Invasions) a hex in storm, snow or blizzard.

11.14 Invasions
Invasion combats
The notional unit has 1 combat factor, modified by:
+1 if it is a city hex;
+1 if the hex is in the home country of the major power that controls the hex;
+1 if it is not stacked with a land unit, but is in the ZOC of a friendly corps or army;
+ The shore bombardment modifier for each invading unit;
-1 if it cannot trace a basic supply path of any length;
-1 if surprised (see 15.Surprise).

The shore bombardment modifier applies to each unit that invades. Use the modifier from the section of the sea-box the unit invades from (remembering the effect of weather ~ see 8.2.7 Land combat).

These modifications are cumulative but the notional unit can never have less than 0 combat factors.

The notional unit is treated like a normal unit for all purposes during combat except that they only have a ZoC into their own hex and are always face-down.

Invading MAR units have their normal combat factors. Halve the combat factors of other invading units.



The invading CW INF 1-3 division is halved to 0.5 combat factors.

The notional unit has 1 combat factor.
This is not a city hex.
The hex is not in the home country of the major power that controls the hex
It is not stacked with a land unit or in the ZOC of a friendly corps or army.
If the weather is fair the shore bombardment modifier for the invading unit is zero.
If the weather is rain the shore bombardment modifier for the invading unit is 1.
It can trace a basic supply path of any length.
It is surprised -1.

quote:


If the weather is fair:
Light cruiser HMAS Adelaide in sea box 2 has a shore bombardment value of zero.
Light cruiser HMAS Adelaide: 1 (Shore Bombardment Factor) - 1 (Sea box 2 bombardment modifier) = zero

0.5 CW land combat factors + zero shore bombardment factors = 0.5 CW land combat factor

The Vichy French notional unit has a value of 1.
1 notional unit combat factor + zero for the shore bombardment modifier for the invading unit - 1 for surprise = zero

The odds are 0.5 (CW land combat factors) to zero (Vichy French notional unit value).


quote:


If the weather is rain:
Light cruiser HMAS Adelaide in sea box 2 has a shore bombardment value of zero.
Light cruiser HMAS Adelaide: 1 (Shore Bombardment Factor) - 2 (Sea box 2 bombardment modifier) = zero

0.5 CW land combat factors + zero shore bombardment factors = 0.5 CW land combat factor

The Vichy French notional unit has a value of 1.
1 notional unit value + 1 the shore bombardment modifier for the invading unit - 1 for surprise = 1

The odds are 0.5 (CW land combat factors) to 1 (Vichy French notional unit value) or 1 to 2.


Add 1 to the roll since a notional unit is always defending the hex face-down.


=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
Lets look the same invasion with the Light cruiser HMAS Adelaide is transporting the INF 1-3 division.

The task force consisting of the Light cruiser HMAS Adelaide is transporting an INF 1-3 division is escorted by Heavy cruiser HMAS Australia from Broome, Australia.

Leaves Broome, Australia (minor port) and enters the Timor Sea and spends 1 point of its range and movement allowance.
Enters the South China Sea and spends 1 point of its range and movement allowance for the sea area.

The task force stops in the South China Sea.

The INF 1-3 division will invade the clear hex southwest of Pnom-Penh French Indo-china, which is controlled by Vichy France.

This is a surprise impulse and there is a Vichy French notational unit.

quote:

Sea Zone: South China Sea
Sea box Zero ~ No Shore bombardment is allowed
Sea box 1 ~ shore bombardment modifier 2*
Sea box 2 ~ shore bombardment modifier 1*
Sea box 3 ~ shore bombardment modifier 0*
Sea box 4 ~ shore bombardment modifier 0

If the weather is rain the asterisk means you add 1 to the shore bombardment modifier.


The invading CW INF 1-3 division is halved to 0.5 CW land combat factors.

The notional unit has 1 combat factor.
This is not a city hex.
The hex is not in the home country of the major power that controls the hex
It is not stacked with a land unit or in the ZOC of a friendly corps or army.
If the weather is fair the shore bombardment modifier for the invading unit is 1.
If the weather is rain the shore bombardment modifier for the invading unit is 2.
It can trace a basic supply path of any length.
It is surprised -1.

quote:


If the weather is fair:
Heavy cruiser HMAS Australia in sea box 3 has a shore bombardment value of 1.

Since the shore bombardment factor cannot exceed the land combat factor the shore bombardment factor is reduced to 0.5.

0.5 CW land combat factors + 0.5 shore bombardment factors = 1 CW land combat factor

The Vichy French notional unit has a value of 1.
1 notional unit combat factor + 1 for the shore bombardment modifier for the invading unit - 1 for surprise = 1

The odds are 1 (CW land combat factor) to 1 (Vichy French notional unit value).


quote:


If the weather is rain:
Heavy cruiser HMAS Australia in sea box 3 has a shore bombardment value of zero.

0.5 CW land combat factors + zero shore bombardment factors = 0.5 CW land combat factor

The Vichy French notional unit has a value of 2.
1 notional unit value + 2 the shore bombardment modifier for the invading unit - 1 for surprise = 2

The odds are 0.5 (CW land combat factor) to 2 (Vichy French notional unit value) or 1 to 4.


Add 1 to the roll since a notional unit is always defending the hex face-down.


quote:

Odds ratios
Compare the attacker’s total to the defender’s total and work out the basic ratio between them. Round the ratio to a whole number. Always round in favour of the defender. For example, 19:5 rounds to 3:1, not 4:1.


I do not know how you all handle 0.5 to zero odds.



_____________________________

University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)

(in reply to brian brian)
Post #: 3
RE: Sea sections - 8/8/2013 8:47:28 PM   
paulderynck


Posts: 7945
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline
Any time the defender is worth zero, the result is automatically */2S (Assault) or */2B (Blitz). No die roll needed.

_____________________________

Paul

(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 4
RE: Sea sections - 8/9/2013 1:33:19 PM   
Extraneous

 

Posts: 1810
Joined: 6/14/2008
Status: offline
We always evoked this rule if the defender had zero combat factors.

quote:

11.14 Invasions
At the end of the attack declaration step (see 11.16 Land combat), you can state that your notional unit is to be ignored [you might do this to prevent breakthroughs by units attacking in conjunction with an invasion]. If you do (and there are no other friendly land units in the hex), there is no attack, and the attacker occupies the hex as if debarking onto a friendly hex (see 11.13 Debarking land units).




_____________________________

University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)

(in reply to paulderynck)
Post #: 5
RE: Sea sections - 8/9/2013 5:48:13 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 21870
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

We always evoked this rule if the defender had zero combat factors.

quote:

11.14 Invasions
At the end of the attack declaration step (see 11.16 Land combat), you can state that your notional unit is to be ignored [you might do this to prevent breakthroughs by units attacking in conjunction with an invasion]. If you do (and there are no other friendly land units in the hex), there is no attack, and the attacker occupies the hex as if debarking onto a friendly hex (see 11.13 Debarking land units).




This is important because it occurs at a different point in the sequence of play. In addition, other units on the attackers side cannot move into the hex, even if they were planned to be part of the attack. For example, a blitz result would have enabled the attacker to have adjacent attacking units move through the invasion hex to a hex beyond.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 6
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