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Is this common for full speed? - 7/19/2013 3:22:35 AM   
guytipton41


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Hi Folks,

Scenario 1, PBEM, 1.0.6.1108r9.

I ran a Fletcher TF from Eau to Suva to see if there were any transports worth sinking. I ran them at full speed based on what I have read on these forums and in the AARs. They ran in the 11 hexes, shot up a couple of PBs (taking no damage) and raced back to Eau. I was shocked to see that all seven of the Fletchers had picked up 10-12 points of system damage in the high speed run. Is this common? Should I plan for this?

Cheers,
Guy

Day Time Surface Combat, near Gau Island at 133,162, Range 17,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
PB Fukuei Maru, Shell hits 12, and is sunk
SC CHa-27, Shell hits 2, and is sunk

Allied Ships
DD Aulick
DD Charles Ausburne
DD Cony
DD Dyson
DD Jenkins
DD LaVallette
DD Taylor





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RE: Is this common for full speed? - 7/19/2013 3:26:43 AM   
wdolson

 

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Pretty typical. Full speed is very rough on machinery.

Bill

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RE: Is this common for full speed? - 7/19/2013 3:31:22 AM   
Sardaukar


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Yep, full speed is really for an emergencies.

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RE: Is this common for full speed? - 7/19/2013 4:05:02 AM   
zuluhour


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All ahead full, myth?

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RE: Is this common for full speed? - 7/19/2013 4:22:46 AM   
witpqs


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Seems higher than average based on what I've seen, but the Fletchers have a high full speed and that might be part of the formula.

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RE: Is this common for full speed? - 7/19/2013 4:38:43 AM   
vonmoltke


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quote:

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

All ahead full, myth?


On a ship's engine telegraph, "Full" is usually about 75% of the ships maximum speed. The game's speed rating for ships is actually flank speed, which is the absolute maximum a ship can do. "Cruise" in the game appears to be roughly the 2/3 speed setting.

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RE: Is this common for full speed? - 7/19/2013 2:23:38 PM   
pmelheck1

 

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sounds about right to me as well. Also it's very rough on the gas tank. As for it being a myth, a lot of things civilians think are common in the military thanks to Hollywood are actually very very rare. Yea, we are all fully armed at all times, ships never travel slower then flank speed, and aircraft never fly other then nap of the earth with the throttle either in burner or 100%.

As to the myth part, some of my fellow soldiers may have had similar experences. Some of the questions I've gotten about why we behave certain ways are hilarious and they don't believe you when you tell them we don't do that except very rarely (but,but,but I saw in a movie so it must be true!!!)



< Message edited by mullk -- 7/19/2013 2:31:24 PM >


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RE: Is this common for full speed? - 7/19/2013 3:39:51 PM   
Lokasenna


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I believe the distance involved is a large part of it. I frequently use full speed but don't make them run 11 hexes in each phase.

It's better to maneuver a bit, get within 8 hexes or so using a Remain on Station order, and do it that way. Change the home port to something in the direction you want them to retreat after they sweep their destination.

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RE: Is this common for full speed? - 7/19/2013 4:14:04 PM   
Amoral

 

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A remain on station order can be dangerous. Assigning a one hex patrol zone lets the TF commander show more initiative if the unexpected happens.

(of course, sometimes you don;t want to see any initiative from your commander).

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RE: Is this common for full speed? - 7/19/2013 5:28:29 PM   
crsutton


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It is because you set them on "full speed" which you need not do. If you have them set to return to base and set to "mission speed" and they are a surface combat or bombardment TF then they will usually position at the optimum distance away and run in and out that max distance during the one night phase. This can be disrupted by a lot of distractions such as PT boats, mines or multiple surface actions. And I myself find it safer to manually position the TF if possible one hex less than its max run distance just for safe measure. (But remember to re set it to retirement allowed).

The point is never set this type of TF on full speed for this type of mission. Use mission speed. Your sys damage will be much lower even though the TF basically does the same thing as if you had set it to full speed.

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RE: Is this common for full speed? - 7/19/2013 6:03:13 PM   
geofflambert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

All ahead full, myth?


I was just reading the obit of the first Captain of the USS Nautilus, and on her maiden voyage Adm. Rickover was at the com and just before handing it over to the Captain, ordered "Put her on the bottom, all ahead full", and the Captain had to jump in and order those orders belayed.

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RE: Is this common for full speed? - 7/19/2013 6:37:27 PM   
denisonh


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I have had bombardment TFs position themselves in some poor places prior to their run using the mission speed setting resulting in old BBs eating some fish unnecessarily.

You may want to "pick your jump off spot" to minimize air attack/detection if that is particularly critical


quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

It is because you set them on "full speed" which you need not do. If you have them set to return to base and set to "mission speed" and they are a surface combat or bombardment TF then they will usually position at the optimum distance away and run in and out that max distance during the one night phase. This can be disrupted by a lot of distractions such as PT boats, mines or multiple surface actions. And I myself find it safer to manually position the TF if possible one hex less than its max run distance just for safe measure. (But remember to re set it to retirement allowed).

The point is never set this type of TF on full speed for this type of mission. Use mission speed. Your sys damage will be much lower even though the TF basically does the same thing as if you had set it to full speed.



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RE: Is this common for full speed? - 7/19/2013 7:39:40 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert


quote:

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

All ahead full, myth?


I was just reading the obit of the first Captain of the USS Nautilus, and on her maiden voyage Adm. Rickover was at the com and just before handing it over to the Captain, ordered "Put her on the bottom, all ahead full", and the Captain had to jump in and order those orders belayed.


Obit writers notwithstanding, but a ship's control party wouldn't know what to do with that set of orders. "Put her on the bottom" is a null command from the conn.

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RE: Is this common for full speed? - 7/19/2013 11:11:19 PM   
wdolson

 

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Arleigh Burke got the nickname "30 know Burke" in the Solomons when he ran all night at 30 knots to intercept a Japanese force with his destroyer squadron. I think he only did it once or twice and it stuck with him the rest of his career. That's how notable it was.

Bill

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RE: Is this common for full speed? - 7/20/2013 12:26:30 AM   
vonmoltke


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

Arleigh Burke got the nickname "30 know Burke" in the Solomons when he ran all night at 30 knots to intercept a Japanese force with his destroyer squadron. I think he only did it once or twice and it stuck with him the rest of his career. That's how notable it was.

Bill


I thought it was "31 knot Burke", with the story being such:

Routine group reports back to higher command always signed off with, among other things, the speed of the task force. Burke's force was chasing Japanese ships, but could only make 30 knots because his flagships engines were damaged. He did not like this, and pushed on the ship's engineers to get the speed up. They managed to gain 1 knot. Thus, after a long stream of "Steaming at 30 knots" in his reports, he sends one that says "Steaming at 31 knots" and thus got the nickname.

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RE: Is this common for full speed? - 7/20/2013 12:48:08 AM   
guytipton41


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From: Houston, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

It is because you set them on "full speed" which you need not do. If you have them set to return to base and set to "mission speed" and they are a surface combat or bombardment TF then they will usually position at the optimum distance away and run in and out that max distance during the one night phase. This can be disrupted by a lot of distractions such as PT boats, mines or multiple surface actions. And I myself find it safer to manually position the TF if possible one hex less than its max run distance just for safe measure. (But remember to re set it to retirement allowed).

The point is never set this type of TF on full speed for this type of mission. Use mission speed. Your sys damage will be much lower even though the TF basically does the same thing as if you had set it to full speed.



Fascinating,

I'll have to give this a try. With a different batch of Fletchers as this wolf pack just got slapped around by 30 Betties and 15 Mavis coming in below the CAP. Now they're looking for the ADs that are all still back at PH. Much cursing of the high command going on I'll say.

Cheers,
Guy

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RE: Is this common for full speed? - 7/20/2013 7:15:01 PM   
geofflambert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

It is because you set them on "full speed" which you need not do. If you have them set to return to base and set to "mission speed" and they are a surface combat or bombardment TF then they will usually position at the optimum distance away and run in and out that max distance during the one night phase. This can be disrupted by a lot of distractions such as PT boats, mines or multiple surface actions. And I myself find it safer to manually position the TF if possible one hex less than its max run distance just for safe measure. (But remember to re set it to retirement allowed).

The point is never set this type of TF on full speed for this type of mission. Use mission speed. Your sys damage will be much lower even though the TF basically does the same thing as if you had set it to full speed.


Something that has always bugged me, can you get a bombardment force to do anything other than remain on station or retire? I often want them to patrol for surface action or cover another TF. As it is I make its home port as close as possible, and try to have loaded AKE's there but even then I usually turn them about the next day and send them back to screen or something. Can you even have them rendezvous with an AE instead of running away?

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RE: Is this common for full speed? - 7/20/2013 7:25:29 PM   
Sardaukar


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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert


quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

It is because you set them on "full speed" which you need not do. If you have them set to return to base and set to "mission speed" and they are a surface combat or bombardment TF then they will usually position at the optimum distance away and run in and out that max distance during the one night phase. This can be disrupted by a lot of distractions such as PT boats, mines or multiple surface actions. And I myself find it safer to manually position the TF if possible one hex less than its max run distance just for safe measure. (But remember to re set it to retirement allowed).

The point is never set this type of TF on full speed for this type of mission. Use mission speed. Your sys damage will be much lower even though the TF basically does the same thing as if you had set it to full speed.


Something that has always bugged me, can you get a bombardment force to do anything other than remain on station or retire? I often want them to patrol for surface action or cover another TF. As it is I make its home port as close as possible, and try to have loaded AKE's there but even then I usually turn them about the next day and send them back to screen or something. Can you even have them rendezvous with an AE instead of running away?


Well, you cannot reload at sea from AE before 1945...and even then only up to 5" guns. So, BB/CA/CL main reloads have to be in port anyways.


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