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The psychic AI - 7/16/2013 10:32:02 AM   
Chris21wen

 

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Milne Bay been empty of a/c for some 6+ months. It got hammered by HB and has slowly been repaired itself and had been fully repaired for 2+ months. I had need to send some F to Milne covering a TF on it's way to PM. The very turn I moved the a/c to it it got flattened again, no recon, nothing. Flatternings not the problem I'd expect that to happen but the speed and psychic ability to spot a/c without a recon is. I cannot remember but does this happen in PBEM?
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RE: The psychic AI - 7/16/2013 10:53:42 AM   
fodder


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Not psychic, old bug. What version are you playing.

There was a bug that when the Japanese player transferred aircraft to an empty airbase it would show the airbase on the allied map indicating that there was now aircraft at that base. No recon necessary.

Michaelm fixed this in one of the betas.

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RE: The psychic AI - 7/16/2013 11:54:28 AM   
RogerJNeilson


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It only happens in PBEM if your opponent is truly psychic....

Roger

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RE: The psychic AI - 7/16/2013 5:16:07 PM   
Chris21wen

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: fodder

Not psychic, old bug. What version are you playing.

There was a bug that when the Japanese player transferred aircraft to an empty airbase it would show the airbase on the allied map indicating that there was now aircraft at that base. No recon necessary.

Michaelm fixed this in one of the betas.



Latest Beta

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RE: The psychic AI - 7/16/2013 5:30:59 PM   
Encircled


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If you mean that the AI "somehow" manages to attack on the only days you are resting your CAP, then yeah, I've had that a lot.

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RE: The psychic AI - 7/16/2013 6:27:39 PM   
Lomri

 

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Actually I believe this is achievable in a PBEM as well. The set up that is allowing this to happen is likely "airfield attack, commanders discretion". Select airfield attack and don't select a target. That's how the AI operates. Players don't do this because they want to control who strikes what and when.

With commanders discretion some bits get shuffled about in the decision making stack and it determines "hey, this airfield looks like a good place to flatten". It also probably takes into account air superiority, commander aggression and of course all the other things involved in whether a strike launches and is coordinated.

I don't think patching to the latest beta where you may not see the "X" (the aircraft based here) symbol will change this behavior.

I've noticed that the AI is much less likely to target empty airfields. Again, remember the AI sets all squadrons to commanders discretion and I believe THAT is where the code comes into play. Meaning a player can replicate this. They just probably won't because then they be playing as dumb as the AI! (No offense to the AI team intended! :)

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RE: The psychic AI - 7/16/2013 6:44:05 PM   
Lokasenna


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I did think I read somebody of some authority here saying there was some kind of check (related to air unit commander's aggression?) for CAP detected at the base/target hex and whether a strike flew (with/without escorts). Something about really aggressive Netty commanders flying their men to their doom against (any) CAP compared to non-aggressive commanders not doing so (for example)? If true, this could explain the "of course the AI would flatten my airfield on the ONE day my CAP isn't flying this week" thing.

Or am I just making that up?

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RE: The psychic AI - 7/16/2013 8:00:17 PM   
LoBaron


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lomri
Actually I believe this is achievable in a PBEM as well. The set up that is allowing this to happen is likely "airfield attack, commanders discretion".


This. The AI has a set of checks which make a specific target more likely than another. One of those checks depends on a/c presence at the target base.

To quote the manual:

quote:

7.2.1.7.1 AUTOMATIC TARGET SELECTION FOR AIR UNITS LACKING A SET TARGET

The greater the assault strength in a base/unit, the more
likely the base/unit will be picked as a Target.
»» The greater the current size of the port, the more
likely the base will be picked as a Target.
»» The greater the current size of the airfield, the more
likely the base will be picked as a Target.
»» The greater the number of enemy aircraft at a base, the
more likely the base will be picked as a Target.
»» The greater the amount of supplies in a base, the more
likely the base will be picked as a Target.
»» If a Target is targeted by another airstrike from another base, it is
more likely to pick the same Target in order to concentrate efforts.
»» If the target is at extended range, it is less likely to pick the Target.
»» If the number of potential escorts at the unit´s base is not sufficient to defend
against the expected CAP at a Target, the Target is less likely to be selected.
»» If the unit’s altitude is set to 100, then the Target’s AA defenses may
deter the unit from picking the Target and cause it to abort.



Also, when doing manual target selection, there was a display design error which enabled the allied player to see a relocation of Japanese a/c to a previousely empty base because the airbase symnol appeared in the base hex after the Japanese plotting phase. But with the latest beta that is not possible anymore.

Basically the "psychic AI" is a non-issue. Manual target selection is in general much more useful than letting the AI run into traps with commander´s discretion setting. And in an AI game...well, the AI needs all the help it can get anyway.

< Message edited by LoBaron -- 7/16/2013 8:02:38 PM >


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RE: The psychic AI - 7/20/2013 11:34:36 AM   
diamond dave

 

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The issue isn't just with LBA cover. In the game I'm playing as Allies, the AI has an affinity for raiding Midway with surface CA forces and sometimes a light carrier or two (the AI also sometimes likes to pull the same at Johnston and Palmyra). If at any time I send a small reinforcement or supply TF the IJN raid will show up almost immediately. I send carriers to chase them and they vanish before I catch them unless I go full speed and risk substantial system/engine damage. I keep carriers on standby at Pearl and they don't return, but if I send the carriers anywhere else, the IJN raids are almost guaranteed to show back up within a couple turns. I guess there's an AI "cheat" to where it will automatically take advantage of a weak area without the usual requisite searches or recons that a human player must go through to judge enemy strength or weakness in a particular location. Oh well, I guess the AI needs any help it can get.

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RE: The psychic AI - 7/20/2013 11:50:21 AM   
LoBaron


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No. TF movement is entirely different from automatic LBA target selection.

The AI is unable to do what you are suspecting on a tactical scale. It might attempt to isolate Midway because a script is designed like that, and has the TFs set up accordingly, but theres absolutely nothing fishy about it. And for CV naval attacks you need a DL, no DL, no attack.

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RE: The psychic AI - 7/22/2013 7:45:53 PM   
Jim Stevens

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

No. TF movement is entirely different from automatic LBA target selection.

The AI is unable to do what you are suspecting on a tactical scale. It might attempt to isolate Midway because a script is designed like that, and has the TFs set up accordingly, but theres absolutely nothing fishy about it. And for CV naval attacks you need a DL, no DL, no attack.


Sorry, what's a DL?

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RE: The psychic AI - 7/23/2013 6:34:01 AM   
SBD

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim Stevens


quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

No. TF movement is entirely different from automatic LBA target selection.

The AI is unable to do what you are suspecting on a tactical scale. It might attempt to isolate Midway because a script is designed like that, and has the TFs set up accordingly, but theres absolutely nothing fishy about it. And for CV naval attacks you need a DL, no DL, no attack.


Sorry, what's a DL?


Detection level.

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RE: The psychic AI - 7/23/2013 6:59:24 AM   
jmalter

 

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DL= Detection Level

where Recon planes look at an enemy base, or NavSearch planes find an enemy TF, the DL increase exposes the enemy to your attacks. but this doesn't always make all your nearby assets available.

Say you've got Cats flying from Midway, & they find an enemy TF. Your DBs based at Midway will prob'ly fly to attack this discovered TF, if it's in their range, if they've got fighter escort.

But your CV TF near Midway might not 'get the info' from the land-based search, it might not launch a strike against the detected TF, CV TFs need to fly their own search, & not depend on nearby land-based search.


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RE: The psychic AI - 7/23/2013 4:45:04 PM   
Lomri

 

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The situation where raiders show up only when you have unloading transports can be explained but the raiders dashing in at night, NOT set to bombard, and going home before the sun comes up. If you have transports (or any other ships) there you'll have an encounter. Otherwise you'll be none the wiser. The closer enemy based surface ships are the easier this is to do without you knowing it. The worse your naval search cover is, the easier for this to happen is.


You can replicate stuff like this really easily in, say, the solomons. You send some DD's or CL raiders once a night from Lunga to Munda. Since they are so close they go there and back before the sun comes up. When the sun comes up your search aircraft detect the DD's or CL's in port. It looks like they never moved.

Early war Allies have really bad search coverage. So pretty easy for this to happen.

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RE: The psychic AI - 7/23/2013 6:06:21 PM   
Symon


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The AI isn’t psychic. It just does what it’s told. The AI comes in two parts: the AI CODE, and the AI SCRIPTS. “Scripts” are simply a “who does what, when” thing. “Code” is another matter altogether and don’t care what “Script” you are running. “Script is variable data, “Code” is forever code.

“Code” has some cheats (duh). Also has some nifty thingies.

If you are wondering what to do with all the teensy weensy YPs and MGBs, etc… well the “Code” uses them to automagically form minesweeping and ASW TFs for their base. Did ya know that?

The “Code” looks for “Base Force” LCUs (with an AvSup device line) and automagically increases AvSup if there’s more planes than mechanics. Did ya know that?

I could go on for pages. AI “Code” does some things .. well .. weird. But AI “Code” does a lot of other things that are cool, but nobody notices. Why do ya think we did all that stuff in Babes?

Ciao. JWE


< Message edited by Symon -- 7/23/2013 6:08:28 PM >


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RE: The psychic AI - 7/23/2013 10:05:56 PM   
HansBolter


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The AI knows all and sees all.

It bombs a base the very day you move aircraft there.....

It bombs any LCU any where that changes into move mode even if it is hidden under a forest/jungle canopy and has no enemy land units within 400 miles without ever once having to fly a recon mission to spot the unit....they are always spotted by the all knowing all seeing AI.

It's just how thing work.

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RE: The psychic AI - 7/23/2013 11:32:07 PM   
Symon


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Yes I know. Gosh, it's so hard, isn't it? You know, my 11 year old grand niece doesn't whine about it but has it pretty well figured out, sorta: when it does it, where it does it, how it does it, when it does it, and why it does it. Maybe she could hep ya some. Otherwise, there's always Zoltar.




Attachment (1)

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Nous n'avons pas peur! Vive la liberté! Moi aussi je suis Charlie!
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RE: The psychic AI - 7/24/2013 12:15:58 AM   
DD696

 

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Oh, my!

So now you say this is a game that eleven year olds can easily figure out. I must say that if that is the case then we have been deceived for years. That is quite different than your usual tirade against those who are much older and who have played the game for many years and that you always accuse of being teenie weenies.

Sounds like a splat of your usual BS.

What ever happened to Natali and US8#### and the like that are around when you aren't, and are gone when you return? Amazing, isn't it?

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RE: The psychic AI - 7/24/2013 12:28:10 AM   
Symon


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That would be Matt Norton. He's in residence at Texas A & M. US87891 is his sail number.

Golly, his son, Matt Jr, is coming by this weekend. We're all headed for the beach and he's gonna formally propose to my niece Christine in the surf at sunset. Bought a bunch of porterhouse steaks for the grill. Yumm. The 11 year old is Amber's daughter, so technically she's a grand niece. Need to keep these things straight. Ya'll just have a wonderful day, now, ok?

< Message edited by Symon -- 7/24/2013 12:54:03 AM >


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Nous n'avons pas peur! Vive la liberté! Moi aussi je suis Charlie!
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