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(Almost) Historical MOD (with BETA)

 
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(Almost) Historical MOD (with BETA) - 7/6/2013 10:32:13 AM   
inqistor


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Since new Scenario versions work only with BETA (planes bombloads, and air weapon upgrades), I will make new topic.

DO NOT run those Scenarios under official patch, as they use features from BETA. They would probably work, but you will see weird behavior, and later war surely will be broken for torpedoes.


Link for older version


Some description of MOD. I would point mainly features which are exclusive here, and not made in other MODs. The main goal was to use historical data to rebalance game (so Japan is weaker at the beginning, and becomes stronger with time, and Allies are stronger initially, but do not get domination as quickly, as in original game).

Japanese planes bombload profiling - planes will use different bombloads for different missions. 800 kg bomb is now pretty common against ships (but this is NOT the one used at Pearl Harbor - that one have much weaker penetration). Smaller planes are better at ground attacks - than 2E bombers.
Sankaiden - most larger guns on Japanese ships became DP. They are not very accurate, and fire rarely, but they give extra AA power, and damages are large enough to destroy even B-29.
Both sides aerial torpedoes evolve with time
Historical number of Japanese pilots (Navy actually have MORE pilots in early war)
Research incorporated into Japanese plane arrival dates - you will get your plane at historical date only if you repair research factories available at the beginning. If you change them - you will get plane/engine much later!
Japanese squads (and some guns) will upgrade with time. Allies have dates of upgrades revised (and Chinese units got better AT with time)
Chinese forces have more historical devices (both at the beginning, and from lend-lease)
Japan produces more supply. You should have problem with delivery, not with availability
Transport ships have reduced capacities, and most squad Devices take much more space
Both starting positions are revised. Japan is not yet in Thailand, and Allies have more broken planes on ground (but they have more supply, have better fortification in few places, and get old planes in early war)

< Message edited by inqistor -- 8/17/2013 9:03:16 AM >
Post #: 1
Scenario 31 - 7/6/2013 10:36:30 AM   
inqistor


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MODified Scenario 1. Numbered as 31.

Initial position highly revised.
Lots of additional planes for Allies (from pre-war reserves)
Japanese planes production dates include initial R&D factories (some arrive later)
REDUCED SHIP CAPACITIES
HISTORICAL PILOT NUMBERS
HISTORICAL JAPANESE BOMBLOADS
Larger support squads
Japanese squads upgrades
San-Shiki, sometimes even delayed
75mm guns have Hard Attack statistics streamlined (every type have different)
Two Infantry Guns upgrade their ammunition to HEAT around 1943/1944
Commando squad is initially smaller (and weaker), to fit onto submarines.
Ki-44 TOJO arrives in January, and have replacements value
2 additional historical pilots
YAMATOs arrive at historical dates, and are modified
Japanese CVEs are conversion, where they should be, also some of them gets additional airgroups later
Japanese tanks Soft Attacks revised
Second VAL model have recalculated range, and is better than First model.


China replacements are revised. Independent artillery uses large guns.
Ka-1 autogyro gets 9 units. 6 land-based, and 3 ship-based.
All Maru-Yu SSTs are now present, with modified armament, and entry-ports.
10cm/65 Type98 AA Gun IS now the BEST Japanese DP.
Few additional tweaks. Check RTF file for further info.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to inqistor)
Post #: 2
Scenario 32 - 7/6/2013 10:38:41 AM   
inqistor


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Joined: 5/12/2010
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MODified Scenario 2. Numbered as 32.

Shinano exchanged for TWO Unryus, and Japanese planes arrival dates are not changed. Rest should be the same, as Scenario 31.

Initial position highly revised.
Lots of additional planes for Allies (from pre-war reserves)
Japanese planes production dates include initial R&D factories (some arrive later)
REDUCED SHIP CAPACITIES
HISTORICAL PILOT NUMBERS
HISTORICAL JAPANESE BOMBLOADS
Larger support squads
Japanese squads upgrades
San-Shiki, sometimes even delayed
75mm guns have Hard Attack statistics streamlined (every type have different)
Two Infantry Guns upgrade their ammunition to HEAT around 1943/1944
Commando squad is initially smaller (and weaker), to fit onto submarines.
Ki-44 TOJO arrives in January, and have replacements value
2 additional historical pilots
YAMATOs arrive at historical dates, and are modified
Japanese CVEs are conversion, where they should be, also some of them gets additional airgroups later
Japanese tanks Soft Attacks revised
Second VAL model have recalculated range, and is better than First model.


China replacements are revised. Independent artillery uses large guns.
Ka-1 autogyro gets 9 units. 6 land-based, and 3 ship-based.
All Maru-Yu SSTs are now present, with modified armament, and entry-ports.
10cm/65 Type98 AA Gun IS now the BEST Japanese DP.
Few additional tweaks. Check RTF file for further info.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to inqistor)
Post #: 3
Scenario 36 - 7/6/2013 10:39:01 AM   
inqistor


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Reserved

(in reply to inqistor)
Post #: 4
Latest changes - 7/6/2013 10:47:06 AM   
inqistor


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Latest changes include:
Mark 13 Torpedo suck big time. Failure rate is 69% (according to tests), and it have much smaller load. It gets back to its current state in February 1944.
Cruise Speeds for Japanese combat ships
Reduction of fuel for Allies TFs on sea
Chinese Independent Artillery Regiments are armed with large guns
KAITENs have better accuracy (they had identical to standard torpedoes)
SBD-3 Dauntless production higher by 14. I have not incorporated all SBD-4, but I used small trick to compress SBD-3 production in time frame until SBD-4 arrival, not SBD-5.

New Ohama class for Scenario 32
Shinano changed into two Uryus (with original Japanese conversion plan) in Scenario 32 - Kurama, and Kaimon (OK, those are actually ships 5002, and 5005, but names are from another class)
Ibuki, and Kamikaze have historical armors
Some Naval Leaders RADMs can now command TFs.
OHKA factories added

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Post #: 5
RE: (Almost) Historical MOD (with BETA) - 7/6/2013 5:42:46 PM   
Terminus


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The Kaiten had considerably poorer accuracy than the torpedo it was based on. The thing was very difficult to steer and the pilots were piss-poorly trained. The lowered accuracy is correct.

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Post #: 6
RE: (Almost) Historical MOD (with BETA) - 7/6/2013 6:19:23 PM   
Falken


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From: ON, Canada
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Hi,

Have just started to catch up on all of your threads on this new mod. Very interesting. 2 quick questions, and if they have been asked in the other older threads, then my apologies for not picking up on it.

1) is this only a PBEM/H2H scenario, or can it be run against the AI, and
2) have you changed the "over supply" issue of the West Coast (similar to RA perhaps with disabled/repair points)? or is this following more of the DBB defaults for fuel/supply...?

Thanks

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 7
RE: (Almost) Historical MOD (with BETA) - 7/7/2013 3:23:02 AM   
Falken


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Ok.. Answered my own first question. The Scenario details does mention that it is compatible for both Allied AI and IJN AI. I'm assuming that the AE Data Updates by Andy are also a must since it does require the Beta EXE....

That's one question down....

(in reply to Falken)
Post #: 8
RE: (Almost) Historical MOD (with BETA) - 7/20/2013 9:58:59 AM   
inqistor


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Joined: 5/12/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Falken

Have just started to catch up on all of your threads on this new mod. Very interesting. 2 quick questions, and if they have been asked in the other older threads, then my apologies for not picking up on it.

1) is this only a PBEM/H2H scenario, or can it be run against the AI,

Yup, I try to keep changes at minimum, so it would work with AI. However both sides are not treated equally. Currently only Japanese planes have profiled bombloads, simply because Allies have like 5 times more models, and it would require 10 times more work to make them.

quote:

2) have you changed the "over supply" issue of the West Coast (similar to RA perhaps with disabled/repair points)? or is this following more of the DBB defaults for fuel/supply...?

I treat it more like bottleneck problem, not availability problem. The game should work that there is enough supply, but not enough transport (or port capacities) to get it, where it is needed.
So... first I have cut down ship capacities, and later enlarged all Support Devices (and some Squads). That way LCUs will take much more space on ships, and since common Support is treated as Infantry, when you run out of Infantry space it suddenly takes ludicrous amount of capacity (extra 5 points translates into 30 cargo points for xAK).
And larger Devices also take more Supply to replace them, so frontline Supply consumption is much higher. That of course seriously hurt Japanese capabilities in longer term, so I actually increased supply output of Refineries (because OIL is the only commodity Japan is short of). The end result is that you have to use most of large transports in Japan, just to take out those Divisions which begins game there.

(in reply to Falken)
Post #: 9
RE: (Almost) Historical MOD (with BETA) - 8/17/2013 9:12:33 AM   
inqistor


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After hundreds of tests with first turn Pearl Harbor attack, I would say there is something wrong with 800 kg AP bomb. If KATEs use it mostly - the result is no BB sunk (and most of them will not even be damaged enough to be in danger of sinking).

In-game AP bomb have around 2/3rd effect of GP bomb. After changing effect of AP to be the same as GP I got much better results (before - it was 20 damages, or even below that in all categories, after hit. Now it is more than 40). I would have to check what will happen, when I will increase penetration, because surely even reduced AP effect is much higher, that torpedo damage, and torpedoes seems to work fine.


Also... it seems some of Japanese submarines have still full fueltanks, after sailing half of the ocean into their positions...

(in reply to inqistor)
Post #: 10
RE: (Almost) Historical MOD (with BETA) - 8/17/2013 3:02:27 PM   
mike scholl 1

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: inqistor

After hundreds of tests with first turn Pearl Harbor attack, I would say there is something wrong with 800 kg AP bomb. If KATEs use it mostly - the result is no BB sunk (and most of them will not even be damaged enough to be in danger of sinking).

I'd be a bit careful with this. Only Arizona was sunk by an 800kg AP bomb historically..., and that was a truly lucky hit. The other one that hit her had virtually no effect at all.

Also... it seems some of Japanese submarines have still full fueltanks, after sailing half of the ocean into their positions...

That's been a problem with ALL the 'special 1st turn move TF's since day one..., KB included.


(in reply to inqistor)
Post #: 11
RE: (Almost) Historical MOD (with BETA) - 8/17/2013 4:08:53 PM   
witpqs


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From: Argleton
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1


quote:

ORIGINAL: inqistor

After hundreds of tests with first turn Pearl Harbor attack, I would say there is something wrong with 800 kg AP bomb. If KATEs use it mostly - the result is no BB sunk (and most of them will not even be damaged enough to be in danger of sinking).

I'd be a bit careful with this. Only Arizona was sunk by an 800kg AP bomb historically..., and that was a truly lucky hit. The other one that hit her had virtually no effect at all.

Yup, the AP bombs did/do have less blast effect. For the same weight bomb, AP has more metal to penetrate armor (hence the P in AP) and correspondingly less explosive, and GP has less metal and more weight of explosive. If you just change the effect you are basically saying that weight of AP was still armor piercing but also had some sort of super explosive that did not exist.

Also... it seems some of Japanese submarines have still full fueltanks, after sailing half of the ocean into their positions...

That's been a problem with ALL the 'special 1st turn move TF's since day one..., KB included.


I thought that the scenario editor now had a place to specify the starting fuel of ships if you (as scenario designer) want to?


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Post #: 12
RE: (Almost) Historical MOD (with BETA) - 8/24/2013 11:08:39 AM   
inqistor


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Joined: 5/12/2010
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Hmm, that is strange. Increasing penetration seems to cause 800kg bomb to do more Major damages, but overall they are still pretty small. Like below 15 (and Major below 10). Could it be, that Effect is truncated at 1024?

quote:

ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1


quote:

ORIGINAL: inqistor

After hundreds of tests with first turn Pearl Harbor attack, I would say there is something wrong with 800 kg AP bomb. If KATEs use it mostly - the result is no BB sunk (and most of them will not even be damaged enough to be in danger of sinking).

I'd be a bit careful with this. Only Arizona was sunk by an 800kg AP bomb historically..., and that was a truly lucky hit. The other one that hit her had virtually no effect at all.

It is very hard to sink ship in port. Bombs do far too few flt damage to this attack be real danger for BBs. The overall problem is that there are hardly any Major Damages (especially for engine), which seems to be the type which repairs slowest. As it is now, BB hit by any number of 800kg bombs would be repaired in less than 100 days.

quote:

Also... it seems some of Japanese submarines have still full fueltanks, after sailing half of the ocean into their positions...

That's been a problem with ALL the 'special 1st turn move TF's since day one..., KB included.

In WITPAE there are very few TFs with 1st day bonus, and most submarines already begin game at positions. Although it could be interesting to allow re-positioning them if player decides to opening strike elsewhere.

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Yup, the AP bombs did/do have less blast effect. For the same weight bomb, AP has more metal to penetrate armor (hence the P in AP) and correspondingly less explosive, and GP has less metal and more weight of explosive. If you just change the effect you are basically saying that weight of AP was still armor piercing but also had some sort of super explosive that did not exist.

800kg AP bomb from Pearl Harbor indeed had some pitiful amount of explosives, but the rest had much more. Most Japanese anti-ship bombs carried almost as much as their GP counterparts (and they had horrible penetration. Actually the only real AP Japanese bomb, except those shells used at PH, was 500kg introduced in late 1942)

quote:

I thought that the scenario editor now had a place to specify the starting fuel of ships if you (as scenario designer) want to?

There always was such field in editor. Most of Dutch submarines have reduced amount of fuel, and even some of Japanes SS have it reduced.

(in reply to mike scholl 1)
Post #: 13
KATE - 9/7/2013 8:55:33 AM   
inqistor


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Some interesting things about KATEs:

Sources generally show, that KATEs carried 2x250 kg bombs at anti-ship strikes, when they were not armed with torpedo, but amount of bombs carried by Unryu carriers show lots of 800 kg bombs:
quote:

Unryū-class
72 × 800 kg bombs
288 × 250 kg bombs
456 × 60 kg bombs
36 × Type 91 torpedoes
Ikoma-class
72 × 800 kg bombs
144 × 250 kg bombs
252 × 60 kg bombs
36 × Type 91 torpedoes

There are actually more 800 kg bombs carried, than torpedoes, and VALs definitely could not carry such bombs.

Also, there is interesting part in this KATE description:
quote:

The B5N2 rapidly replaced the B5N1 in front-line units, although some of the older aircraft took part in the attack on Pearl Harbor.


It suggests, that there was some B5N1 models still onboard KB during Pearl Harbor strike. I could not found any other reference, but I have seen picture described as B5N1 KATE onboard AKAGI in March 1942.

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Post #: 14
High AA BBs - 9/17/2013 1:17:59 PM   
Yaab


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Seems some Japanese BBs have wrong AA values in Tracker, ranging from 7,000 to 10,000 points. Other Japanese big ships and all Allied ones have the AA values of 1,000-2,000 points at most.


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Post #: 15
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