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Nasty Nasty - 6/21/2013 11:18:53 AM   
Andy Mac

 

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Someone asked for a copy its the nasty nasty version of the Jap player v Allied AI scenario

Its a bit brute force and you may need to consider canning the PH strike as you will need the birdfarms for the DEI invasion.

Anyway its a bit tough not surprising just a tough nasty fight the Allies are VERY prepared for the Japanese attack.

As before you need to overlay the scen 17 update from the beta data update thread to get the AI files then overlay the attached zip.

You MAY need to give the japanese a few "presents" to make this doable.....


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RE: Nasty Nasty - 6/21/2013 11:20:18 AM   
Andy Mac

 

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ps after the comments about the last one where a certain person said they had achieved auto by end 43 I may have went a bit far on this one..................

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RE: Nasty Nasty - 6/21/2013 12:40:00 PM   
Andy Mac

 

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ps goes without saying I hope that this scen is total fantasyland if the allies had what I gave them no one would mess with them......

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RE: Nasty Nasty - 6/21/2013 5:10:20 PM   
traskott


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Sorry Andy, without the scn17 files I'm unable to load the scenario...

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RE: Nasty Nasty - 6/21/2013 7:01:01 PM   
traskott


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I got it.

Ufff.. Too much. The japanese will be unable even to take DEI and Philiphines...

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RE: Nasty Nasty - 6/21/2013 7:21:41 PM   
Andy Mac

 

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Yes as I said its seriously nasty

You may want to give the Japanese a couple of freebies to help out

Basically the more i play it the less I send to ph

I also don't land at Kota

I have tried the mersing gambit it worked but it was damned expensive !!!!

In all seriousness this one is about as tough as I can make it

Japanese need to.concentrate isolate and then bypass maybe even Singapore

Deffo Bataan you need your forces in good order and cannot afford to wreck your divs in a siege

Also you need to sink every Capital ship you see don't let the allies accumulate a large force

Watch out for the drake andarchimedes classes also thejohnny reb class of super q ships


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RE: Nasty Nasty - 6/22/2013 12:11:03 AM   
Andy Mac

 

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Clearly this scenario is for the masochists only btw its for japanese players v the AI who dont mind running into brick walls at full speed.

This is NOT for everyone as its bordering on insane

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RE: Nasty Nasty - 6/22/2013 1:21:01 AM   
PaxMondo


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WOW!!

Thanks Andy for providing this!




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RE: Nasty Nasty - 6/22/2013 3:25:25 AM   
Reg


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

In all seriousness this one is about as tough as I can make it


Weren't the Japanese expecting (and planning) for resistance like this??

They were as surprised as anyone about how things turned out though they were certainly willing and able enough to adapt those plans to the actual situation.



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(One day I will learn to spell - or check before posting....)
Uh oh, Firefox has a spell checker!! What excuse can I use now!!!

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RE: Nasty Nasty - 6/22/2013 4:33:51 PM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Reg


quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

In all seriousness this one is about as tough as I can make it


Weren't the Japanese expecting (and planning) for resistance like this??

They were as surprised as anyone about how things turned out though they were certainly willing and able enough to adapt those plans to the actual situation.



I don't think they had plans to face Spit VIII's at HK.

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RE: Nasty Nasty - 6/22/2013 5:46:42 PM   
Redmarkus5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Reg


quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

In all seriousness this one is about as tough as I can make it


Weren't the Japanese expecting (and planning) for resistance like this??

They were as surprised as anyone about how things turned out though they were certainly willing and able enough to adapt those plans to the actual situation.




I'm pretty sure the scenario the Japanese were planning for involved the US Carriers all being docked at Pearl, ready to be sunk or badly damaged. What they actually achieved was far less than they were aiming for. After that, Yamamoto predicted, "I can run wild for six months … after that, I have no expectation of success."

If anyone is willing to make the mod, I would like to see a Dec 8 start with all four US CVs sunk or severely damaged. That comes closer to what the historically plausible alternatives might encompass.

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RE: Nasty Nasty - 6/22/2013 6:22:56 PM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: redmarkus4


quote:

ORIGINAL: Reg


quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

In all seriousness this one is about as tough as I can make it


Weren't the Japanese expecting (and planning) for resistance like this??

They were as surprised as anyone about how things turned out though they were certainly willing and able enough to adapt those plans to the actual situation.




I'm pretty sure the scenario the Japanese were planning for involved the US Carriers all being docked at Pearl, ready to be sunk or badly damaged. What they actually achieved was far less than they were aiming for. After that, Yamamoto predicted, "I can run wild for six months … after that, I have no expectation of success."

If anyone is willing to make the mod, I would like to see a Dec 8 start with all four US CVs sunk or severely damaged. That comes closer to what the historically plausible alternatives might encompass.

Easy to do, just edit them to PH at start of a Dec7 GC. Pretty sure that the KB attack will get them most of the time.

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RE: Nasty Nasty - 6/23/2013 8:50:36 AM   
Redmarkus5


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I did a quick Dec 8 start edit and just removed the two TFs from the game - seems to work and gives the US player a plausible historical challenge.

Does anyone know how this might affect the AI plans etc? I am sure that if the first wave reported US carriers on fire, then the Pearl attack would have been followed up more forcefully as Japanese force protection priorities would have eased.

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RE: Nasty Nasty - 6/23/2013 1:11:29 PM   
Andy Mac

 

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Well as this thread is about trying to make the AI moRE competitive I can pretty much be certain that sinking 4 US CV's on day 1 wont help...

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Dorniers! - 6/28/2013 1:21:22 AM   
PaxMondo


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Here you go:

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Manado at 75,99
 
Weather in hex: Clear sky
 
Raid spotted at 18 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes
 
Japanese aircraft
      E13A1 Jake x 2
 
Allied aircraft
      Do-24K-2 x 2
 
No Japanese losses
 
No Allied losses
 
Japanese Ships
      CA Aoba
      CA Furutaka, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
      CA Kinugasa
 
Aircraft Attacking:
       2 x Do-24K-2 launching torpedoes at 200 feet
               Naval Attack:  2 x 21in Mk VIII Torpedo
 
CAP engaged:
Kinugasa-1  with E13A1 Jake (2 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
      2 plane(s) intercepting now.
      Group patrol altitude is 6000 
      Raid is overhead


This is what I mean about NASTY!! 2 freakin Dorniers, 4 torps, 3hits, 1 dead CA.

Andy, try not to enjoy TOO much.

Yeah, its a challenge ....



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RE: Dorniers! - 6/28/2013 3:35:43 PM   
Andy Mac

 

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I do think the Dorniers are the nastiest thing I did !!!

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RE: Dorniers! - 6/28/2013 8:20:48 PM   
Mac Linehan

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Here you go:

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Manado at 75,99
 
Weather in hex: Clear sky
 
Raid spotted at 18 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes
 
Japanese aircraft
      E13A1 Jake x 2
 
Allied aircraft
      Do-24K-2 x 2
 
No Japanese losses
 
No Allied losses
 
Japanese Ships
      CA Aoba
      CA Furutaka, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
      CA Kinugasa
 
Aircraft Attacking:
       2 x Do-24K-2 launching torpedoes at 200 feet
               Naval Attack:  2 x 21in Mk VIII Torpedo
 
CAP engaged:
Kinugasa-1  with E13A1 Jake (2 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
      2 plane(s) intercepting now.
      Group patrol altitude is 6000 
      Raid is overhead


This is what I mean about NASTY!! 2 freakin Dorniers, 4 torps, 3hits, 1 dead CA.

Andy, try not to enjoy TOO much.

Yeah, its a challenge ....




Pax - You have my interest!

Andy, I am going to download and take a look now.

Thank you for giving us a Jap verses Allied AI scenario that will be a real challenge. Your work ethic and commitment to excellence in all things AE are what make AE cutting edge.

You have my Respect, Sir.

Mac

P.S. If the Pax Man says it is tough, I know it will be so...

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RE: Dorniers! - 6/29/2013 12:39:54 AM   
PaxMondo


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Mac,

you've seen what can happen above. plan accordingly. Andy has suggested that "no unescorted TF's be committed". I would say that is very good starting advice. He also suggests that you "keep to an aggressive timetable or some targets will be difficult to take". Yeah, I would also agree with that advice.

I'm playing NORMAL difficulty, stepping it up to HARD 3 days/month (15-17 each month). Like any AI game, no deep "passes". Shallow encirclements? Sure.

Besides the Dorniers, watch out in China ... that's all I'll say. There is a lot of fun things to see.

Anyway, the AI is giving a good match ... entertaining ... Andy did some good work here.

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RE: Dorniers! - 6/29/2013 10:07:10 PM   
Mac Linehan

 

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Pax -

As always, I appreciate and value your insight and guidance.

Edit: I don't think that I have enough testosterone to play on a three day cycle... <grin>

Thank You, Sir!

Cricket Mac



< Message edited by Mac Linehan -- 6/29/2013 10:08:13 PM >


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RE: Nasty Nasty - 7/6/2013 7:40:21 AM   
Mac Linehan

 

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Andy and Pax -

Spent Thursday and Friday editing and setting up; gave a LOT to the Japanese, even added some ships (pure fantasy but lots of fun). Edited and evened out Japanese Air production, with increased production.

Didn't look much at the Allies, just enlarged the at start air pools (which were large to begin with) just to make it tough.

Turned off the Dec 7th Surprise; did not change the Kota or PI invasion TF's but added some heavy cover.

Hit "end turn" and...

Got hammered Big Time - ship losses and heavy air losses; more than one month's production. Did one more repeat turn with changes, but accidentally left surprise off again - more of the same.

Third time around, with surprise "on", did much better, closer to the norm, but the Hurricane IIb Trops at Hong Kong chewed on my beautiful pre production Tojo's and the accompanying strike up. The Nates were Capping Canton.

CV TF3 unescorted Kates hit Cagayan to hammer the B-17 D's - at least that was the plan, till the Fighter Boys showed up and ruined the show.

My favorite part however, were B-17's visiting Babeldoab. The Naval Base Force had Type 2 Radar (yet another "gift"), my gallant and willing Claudes were waiting and did some damage and disruption. The best message was "fighter can not catch bombers!", or words to that effect.

So, despite making it through a repeat turn without catastrophic losses (due to "surprise ON" and better planning), it is very clear to me that the ground forces assigned to the PI and Malaya (standard game) are completely inadequate. Not to mention that my beloved Air will be going to take losses against well trained Allied air. My forces have a healthy respect for what the Allied Air Boys can do...

I am going to continue to march, but know that there will be many more surprises awaiting His Majesties' Representatives. I will eventually restart, edit and assign whole division(s) - to either Malaya or the PI. Don't have enough experience to know if I can go straight for the DEI and skip (but suppress)the PI of Malaya.

Gents, I am always ready to listen to your ideas...

Andy:

You get Five Gold Stars for this scenario. While my preference is Babes, you have provided a scenario that allows me to play as the Japanese against the AI. After years of playing both sides (by preference - I learned a LOT), it is a joy to play just the IJN. I am very much impressed with and appreciative of your efforts, Sir.

Well, its 32 minutes after midnight, time to rest and think about what has to change, and how I am going to do it.

Absolutely Awesome Stuff, Gents!

A Much Chastened Mac





< Message edited by Mac Linehan -- 7/6/2013 5:17:29 PM >


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RE: Nasty Nasty - 10/31/2013 12:44:33 AM   
Andy Mac

 

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Been away for a bit s only just read this one

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RE: Nasty Nasty - 10/31/2013 4:03:08 AM   
PaxMondo


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Welcome Back Andy!!!



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RE: Nasty Nasty - 10/31/2013 2:28:03 PM   
traskott


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Been away for a bit s only just read this one


Any new surprise ? P-51 Mark A with 4x20mm, more mosquitos with 57 gun, or british bombers all with torpedoes ??

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RE: Nasty Nasty - 10/31/2013 2:45:15 PM   
Andy Mac

 

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I think the nasty nasty version is just about as hard as I can make it

I had to redownload all the scenarios

so in order of AI difficulty

Scen 1
Scen 2

The for an IJ player

Scen 17 Ironman
Scne 17 Ironman - Nasty overlay
Scen 17 Ironman - Nasty Nasty overlay (aka Andy goes wild - this was purely in response to someone saying they managed an AV in 42 against the Nasty one !!!)

for an Allied player

Scen 10 Ironman
Scen 10 Ironman - Nasty Overlay

I am revisiting them all to take another look and I may set them up as seperate scens for ease of downloading rather than as overlays and I may do an Nasty Nasty Japanese one as well which I dont remember doing

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RE: Nasty Nasty - 10/31/2013 2:46:57 PM   
Andy Mac

 

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ps the Nasty Nasty ones are INTENDED that the player should feel free to add some never were toys for the side they are playing even I aint masochistic enough to play nasty nasty without some prezzies for the IJN and IJA

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RE: Nasty Nasty - 11/1/2013 2:20:32 PM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

ps the Nasty Nasty ones are INTENDED that the player should feel free to add some never were toys for the side they are playing even I aint masochistic enough to play nasty nasty without some prezzies for the IJN and IJA

NOW you tell me!!!







<beverage me>

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RE: Nasty Nasty - 12/30/2013 5:07:39 PM   
Andy Mac

 

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ps this was the nastuier than nasty version

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RE: Nasty Nasty - 12/30/2013 7:36:43 PM   
PaxMondo


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And it is SO GOOD!!!



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RE: Nasty Nasty - 12/30/2013 8:18:45 PM   
Grfin Zeppelin


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Gosh I am struggling already with the nasty version.....lemme guess....Spitfires in Hong Kong ?

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RE: Nasty Nasty - 12/30/2013 8:45:41 PM   
PaxMondo


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No no no ... Think Essex class on Dec 7th ... think Dorniers with 8xTorps and 200% accuracy ... think SIDEWINDER MISSILES ...

Seriously (BTW, welcome back, missed you around here), the Dorniers are really scary. Yeah, late war fighters pop up all over. Armor ... basically, take Andy's advice (which he gave somewhere and I have engraved on my monitor:

"
1. Be sure to take your initial objectives in a timely fashion, if you stray from the timetable BEWARE!
2. No unescorted TF's are safe.
"

There is no way to overstate those two hints. I'm on my 4th re-start ... my 2nd one from scratch (could not salvage much of anything, really had to re-think my strategies). Expect to take some serious losses in the first month ... very difficult to get through March in one piece and by April your pilot training program needs to be deliverying big time or you will not make June ...

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