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Who builds what where? - 6/9/2013 9:03:33 PM   
tylertoo

 

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I'm still trying wrap my head around certain aspects of the construction of ships and bases:

1) Does the government of an empire construct all ships, public and private? In other words, if I am running the empire completely manually, no AI, do I also direct the construction of private sector freighters, mining ships and passenger ships even if I don't control those ships?

2) Other than colony ships, what can only be constructed at a colony?

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RE: Who builds what where? - 6/9/2013 9:18:44 PM   
DeadlyShoe


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The private sector has its own cash balance, which you can see in the budget sheet. The private sector mostly gets the income generated by your colonies that does not get passed to you as tax revenue. The private sector uses this money to place orders for ships at your spaceports, stations to your construction ships, and retrofits for same. These ships and stations still have to be built conventionally, and still cost resources. You receive the cost of construction ships/stations/retrofits as bonus income.

Only pirates (and I think Corporate Nationalists) can build Private ships directly.

Construction Ships, Colony Ships, and Resupply Ships are the only ships that must be built at a colony. Technically, construction ships can build space ports/defense bases orbiting a colony.

< Message edited by DeadlyShoe -- 6/9/2013 9:19:35 PM >

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RE: Who builds what where? - 6/9/2013 9:36:56 PM   
tylertoo

 

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Thank you. That helps.

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RE: Who builds what where? - 6/9/2013 9:53:20 PM   
invaderzim

 

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So does this mean you can build heavily armed mining bases and make the private sector pay for them instead? :)

Also, would the private sector get the spaceport income from these mining bases do you only get spaceport income from state-run spaceports?

< Message edited by invaderzim -- 6/9/2013 9:54:57 PM >

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RE: Who builds what where? - 6/10/2013 1:44:01 AM   
turtlefang

 

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Except for Corporate Nationalism, only the private empire "owns" mining stations. Even when you order them built, the private sector pays for them and owns them. They generate income in the private sector which is then used to purchase ships from you.

The downside of bigger mining stations is:

1) Cost means that fewer will be built as they cost more so fewer resources are collected
2) maintaince cost increase for the private sector which limits money to invest in things like more mining stations, freighters, and trade

Now, I happen to believe that a heavily armed mining station in the early game is better than an unarmed or lightly armed one because you lose fewer of them. And I don't want to lose access to resources early on.

But you can, and other have, argued that a "skinny" mining station with just the absolute minimum is the way to go to maximize cash flow.

I understand the two points of view, and it is really a matter of play style. Now, a heavily armed mining station isn't going to stop a three or four ship fleet of decent sized ships that decide to destroy it - or at least, I haven't design one that is economically feasible to do that.


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RE: Who builds what where? - 6/10/2013 2:06:17 AM   
Astax

 

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If you are anal you could just assign 1-2 escorts to each station.

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RE: Who builds what where? - 6/10/2013 2:32:13 AM   
FerretStyle

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Astax

If you are anal you could just assign 1-2 escorts to each station.


Might as well just arm them in that case. The cost to maintain escorts would be excessive after awhile with fuel costs and such; stations can get by on energy collectors.

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RE: Who builds what where? - 6/10/2013 9:06:56 AM   
DeadlyShoe


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Railguns and gravity beams are good defensive weapons, because even minor amounts of damage will cause the ship AI to retreat.

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RE: Who builds what where? - 6/10/2013 5:19:15 PM   
turtlefang

 

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Earlier on, I agree regarding railguns and gravity weapons (although as area weapons, you have to be careful not harm your own ships).

In the early stages of the game, I usually put 4 or 5 rail guns and 4 or 5 missiles on a station. This provides effective firepower against railgun or low range beam weapon ships, and the missiles provide a good distance weapon.

Later on, I replace the rail guns/missiles with a combination of torpedos for high damage and a pair of fighter bays.

I try to design mining stations that can fight off a heavy medium ship or a pair of escorts. Anything larger is going to make it toast anyway and get too expensive.

But some people advocate a "skinny" base with just the bare minimum to run it. And just accept any losses as the cost of doing business. Each way has a cost associated with it, and you have to pick your style.

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RE: Who builds what where? - 6/10/2013 8:11:50 PM   
Plant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DeadlyShoe

... You receive the cost of construction ships/stations/retrofits as bonus income.

Only pirates (and I think Corporate Nationalists) can build Private ships directly.
Not construction ships as those are state owned.
Not for Corporate Nationalism Government either.


quote:

ORIGINAL: invaderzim

So does this mean you can build heavily armed mining bases and make the private sector pay for them instead? :)

Also, would the private sector get the spaceport income from these mining bases do you only get spaceport income from state-run spaceports?


Yes, that is correct. At least for maintenance. Not too sure about the costs for building. In Shadows, it seems to have been changed to the private sector paying for new mining bases, but I am not too sure. Spaceport income is from all spaceports. Spaceport income is from the building of new ships and private sector retrofitting. Not sure if you can, or what happens if you design construction yards on mining bases.

quote:

ORIGINAL: turtlefang

Except for Corporate Nationalism, only the private empire "owns" mining stations.
No, in Corporate Nationalism governments, the private sector still pays maintenance of the mining stations.

< Message edited by Plant -- 6/10/2013 8:12:12 PM >

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RE: Who builds what where? - 6/11/2013 2:15:31 AM   
tylertoo

 

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Getting back to my truly newb original post, I appreciate the help given here on who builds what where. To help my dense mind grasp this, I made a chart.

Do I have this right? Have I left anything out?


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RE: Who builds what where? - 6/11/2013 2:37:18 AM   
DeadlyShoe


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that looks right :)

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RE: Who builds what where? - 6/11/2013 3:41:43 AM   
invaderzim

 

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That's mostly right, except only pirate construction ships can build spaceports freely. But empire construction ships can build defensive bases anywhere. And if you add a commerce center, construction yard and a manufacturing plant to a defensive bases, it's basically a spaceport.

I'm not sure if you will get the same economic benefits like spaceport income from a defensive base though.

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RE: Who builds what where? - 6/11/2013 6:38:24 AM   
feelotraveller


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That's a nice chart. 

Colonies can also build research stations, defensive bases, starbases and resorts (if I remember correctly).  Probably not much point in building the latter two at a colony though...

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RE: Who builds what where? - 6/11/2013 8:31:28 AM   
dougo33


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That is a great chart !! Even I can figure out what is built where. Thanks for doing the chart.

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RE: Who builds what where? - 6/11/2013 5:22:23 PM   
tylertoo

 

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One more question: are monitoring stations built only at colonies, or also by construction ships?

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RE: Who builds what where? - 6/11/2013 6:07:11 PM   
woodtick1168

 

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quote:

One more question: are monitoring stations built only at colonies, or also by construction ships?

They can be build anywhere.

Use them with a long range sensor. They are your early warning radar system. Mine are dirt cheap and placed off to the side of main travel routes between colonies in deep space.

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RE: Who builds what where? - 6/11/2013 6:09:12 PM   
invaderzim

 

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Monitoring stations can be built by both colonies and constructors. It's probably better to hide your monitoring stations in deep space. If you do this, attacking fleets should ignore them even if they take the system.

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RE: Who builds what where? - 6/11/2013 7:21:57 PM   
elanaagain


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I put long range sensors on a sub set of explorer ships. This way I can move them from place to place as warranted by current sitrep.

_____________________________

USA = Corporatist Serfdom of America: free range surf technology

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RE: Who builds what where? - 6/11/2013 9:59:07 PM   
turtlefang

 

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I put long range scanners on all my explorer ships (after I get it) - decreases the amount of time to fully explore a system.

I also build a class of armored scouts with a LR scanner on board and as large as possible. I assign one or two per fleet. Have a LR scanner with the fleet, which has helped out especially when advancing it an enemy system.

Mointoring stations work - if you don't put a weapon on them, and they are off the trade lanes, they are usually ignored. Not sure with the number of pirates in the game if that will remain true.

I also tend to put long range scanners on all my spaceports and mining stations. As they get developed, they provide overlapping coverage and allow me to see virtually everything near my empire.

I prefer to know what is going on, rather than find out by a surprise.

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RE: Who builds what where? - 6/11/2013 10:00:25 PM   
tylertoo

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: invaderzim

Monitoring stations can be built by both colonies and constructors.


Thanks for clarifying. Based on all this, I revised my DW Newb Construction Chart (tm) to show the facilities that can be built either by colonies or construction ships.

Are there any mistakes in this? Omissions?


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RE: Who builds what where? - 6/12/2013 2:05:13 AM   
invaderzim

 

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Colonies can also build resort bases. I'm not sure if there is a reason to though since spaceports already have a recreation center. Would the resort base create any additional tourism because of it's base type?

quote:

I put long range scanners on all my explorer ships (after I get it) - decreases the amount of time to fully explore a system.


How does this work? I thought only resource scanners could detect resources, which is what explorer ships seem to spend the most time doing when they are not in warp.

< Message edited by invaderzim -- 6/12/2013 2:06:59 AM >

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RE: Who builds what where? - 6/12/2013 2:50:11 PM   
feelotraveller


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The generic starbase is also missing.  It can be built both at colonies and by construction ships.  Picky, picky... but you did ask. 

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RE: Who builds what where? - 6/12/2013 3:28:56 PM   
tylertoo

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: feelotraveller

The generic starbase is also missing.  It can be built both at colonies and by construction ships.  Picky, picky... but you did ask. 


Not picky at all. I did ask for that. I originally had 'star bases' but took it out when I added monitoring stations and defensive bases, but I guess the generic star base should be included. Thanks.

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RE: Who builds what where? - 6/12/2013 6:20:21 PM   
Plant


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You should clarify that your chart is for Empires only, not for Pirates.
Military ships don't need a branch for every ship, but if you are going to do that, you might as well order them nicely in order of AI size or as ordered under the Empire Summary Screen for clarity.
Also, since the original issue was for State vs Private, perhaps you should also sub divide the State and Private ships. or a small bubble indicatin th private sector ships (freighters, passenger, mining ships, mining stations).

Place the order of the colony and construction ship in the order of the build display.

BTW, what program are you using to create this branch chart?

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RE: Who builds what where? - 6/12/2013 7:36:14 PM   
elanaagain


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An additional bit of info might make your already awesome chart just perfect. Some items will repair without a constructor ship, others require a constructor to implement repairs. (I am assuming this is prior to auto robot repair units being built.) Might you tag the items that will self repair, or the items that require a constructor to get repairs going?

Oh, second on the program used to create youe chart. Love it! Would like a copy to use.... please.

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RE: Who builds what where? - 6/12/2013 7:45:47 PM   
invaderzim

 

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Which items repair without a constructor? I assumed all bases with a construction yard and manufacturing could fix themselves.

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RE: Who builds what where? - 6/13/2013 2:39:33 AM   
tylertoo

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Plant

You should clarify that your chart is for Empires only, not for Pirates.
Military ships don't need a branch for every ship, but if you are going to do that, you might as well order them nicely in order of AI size or as ordered under the Empire Summary Screen for clarity.
Also, since the original issue was for State vs Private, perhaps you should also sub divide the State and Private ships. or a small bubble indicatin th private sector ships (freighters, passenger, mining ships, mining stations).

Place the order of the colony and construction ship in the order of the build display.

BTW, what program are you using to create this branch chart?


All good suggestions, I will make those changes, thanks.

I am using the freeware but abandoned Cayra mind mapping software. This is a link to a download site only. The devs gave up on this a few years ago. Its a shame.

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RE: Who builds what where? - 6/14/2013 5:20:37 PM   
Plant


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Ah, thanks, those charts are called mindmaps.

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RE: Who builds what where? - 6/14/2013 11:27:07 PM   
tylertoo

 

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I have added most of Plant's suggestions. I have not added elanaagain's idea of designation how a ship can be repaired because I'm not sure of those details. If someone has that info for each craft, I might try to add that. Anyone who wants this chart should be able to right-click on it and save it to your pc. Thanks for everyone's help.


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