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AI obsoletes all possible designs.

 
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AI obsoletes all possible designs. - 5/24/2013 10:49:19 AM   
Mansen


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(Forum ate my post so I'll re-write it quickly)

The game AI is far too aggressive when it comes to design upgrades - It will quite literally leave players with no possible designs to build, because it doesn't observe the current size potential of the empire.

Could we have a minor tweak so that it doesn't try to optimize beyond what your current size limit is? It's a bit of a rude awakening having to design your own ships from scratch all of a sudden because the AI has obsoleted all of your military designs and made new ones that you can't build.

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RE: AI obsoletes all possible designs. - 5/24/2013 10:56:11 AM   
ASHBERY76


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You can set designs to not update already.

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RE: AI obsoletes all possible designs. - 5/24/2013 10:58:23 AM   
Mansen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

You can set designs to not update already.


That's not the point - The AI system should observe current empire limits and not think up "impossible" designs.

Turning off automatic updating only leaves the player with a lot of manual updating which isn't much better off.

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RE: AI obsoletes all possible designs. - 5/24/2013 11:00:23 AM   
Bingeling

 

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I have sung that song as well

I assume you have issues with frigates (and destroyers), once you research warp.

As a fix, change the filter in the design list from "latest buildable" to "latest". Filter state ships to limit the list a bit.

Edit the current frigate design. Remove 2-3 blasters, 2-3 shields, one reactor, possibly some armor. Until you fit under the build limit. The end result will look very much like an escort if you max size is 160.

If it is later in the game and cruisers, they may be temporarily too large until the AI designer realizes its errors. A fix then (apart from waiting) can be to change the design filter to "all designs", sort them by type, and unobsolete the previous design (by clicking the red icon on the right). A quick way to see the currently used design is the number of ships on it. Notice that you can sort the designs by clicking the column headers.

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RE: AI obsoletes all possible designs. - 5/24/2013 11:19:02 AM   
elliotg


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I am looking at a solution to this, but it won't be in the first update.

I guess we want a fix so that AI ship design considers whether there is an existing design for each subrole that already fits within the construction size limits, and if so then does not create a new design for the subrole that would exceed the current construction limit. In other words, once you have built your first ship of a certain type, all subsequent redesigns will also be buildable (i.e. would then ensure that all future designs for that ship type should fit within construction size limits).

This may mean that sometimes the AI simply cannot create a new design for a ship type, because doing so would push it over the construction size limit. For example, if you research some new tech that is in the design template for a ship type, the AI wants to now add that new component. But doing so pushes the new design over the size limit, thus the new design is not created (would break the rule above).

How does the above sound?

Thanks
Elliot

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RE: AI obsoletes all possible designs. - 5/24/2013 11:34:56 AM   
Mansen


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You're a mind reader, Elliot.

(And for the stubborn ones I suppose you could add a checkbox to toggle this self-limiting on and off in the policy menu)

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RE: AI obsoletes all possible designs. - 5/24/2013 11:52:38 AM   
Darkspire


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I would go with the first option and just build to within the current construction size limits.
If a new component becomes available and is unable to be added as it would take the ship design over the current limit then notify the player with a message along the lines of 'New components are available but unable to be designed due to current construction size limits', make it one of those message boxes that the player needs to click okay to continue so that they can not miss it and can thus redirect there research efforts, leave a checkbox for whether to have this message displayed in the main game options. Once the construction size limit is increased then have a check for any pending designs and implement them. I think this would help new players with AI designed ships in understanding when things need to be changed and why.

Darkspire

< Message edited by Darkspire -- 5/24/2013 11:53:31 AM >


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RE: AI obsoletes all possible designs. - 5/24/2013 1:50:27 PM   
Bingeling

 

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I can live with disappearing designs, but I believe this is very confusing to less experienced players. And confusing items should be a priority to remove.

I would suggest:

Make a minimum size for all design classes. Have only frigate and escort as military ships at 160 size.
This will prevent accidents with "too early" introduction of certain designs if a lot of tech is not researched yet. How large is for instance a cruiser that has only maxos blasters, no shields, no armor, no energy collector? It could be available in early game if yard size is the first thing done.

Make sure that there is always a design at the minimum design size. I agree that if the designer suggestion is above the current yard size, don't obsolete the old, and don't publish it. But make sure to check all designs on a new yard size researched. Before "dropping" an upgraded design, check that an effort has been attempted to fit it under the current design limit. If this is done, it should always succeed, no?

I don't have the game open, so could mess up the yard size ladder, but for military the minimum could be:

Escort: 160
Frigate: 230
Destroyer: 300
Cruiser: 400
Capital:600
Troop Transport: 230

I say frigate at 230, because a warping 160 frigate is nothing more than an escort.

Do the same for freighters.

And of course, limits only for the AI designer.

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RE: AI obsoletes all possible designs. - 5/24/2013 9:05:18 PM   
Sithuk

 

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Min for troop transport should be 160

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