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fighter vs ship question - 4/23/2013 9:42:11 AM   
slane_slith

 

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Do fighters, set to naval attack, that only have guns for weapons do any damage? If yes what is the largest vessel that they will damage?

The AI has what appears to be CA's and escorts within range of my fighter base. Any point in sending my fighters in?

Thanks

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RE: fighter vs ship question - 4/23/2013 9:48:28 AM   
Barb


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With fighters with guns only, you can get very light superstructure damage plus some AA weapons knocked out on CAs and DDs.
But even 0.5inch MGs can damage cargo ships and landing crafts/barges. 20+mm cannons can even sink if you are lucky enough.

You also need a training in strafing to be something more than just targets for your pilos.


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RE: fighter vs ship question - 4/23/2013 1:22:48 PM   
dr.hal


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Many fighters can carry ordinance and can be deadly to thin skinned ships. For example the P 40E carries a 500 pd GP bomb that is a merchant ships nightmare! If you want to find out what your fighter can do, click "Naval Attack" for the mission than hit "Aircraft" to find out what it can carry... you will be pleasantly surprised! Set the attack for 1000 feet so that it will hit and can strafe as Barb points out. Hal

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RE: fighter vs ship question - 4/23/2013 3:02:10 PM   
tigercub


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Japan early on I use the Nick ki45...its not bad!

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RE: fighter vs ship question - 4/23/2013 3:35:24 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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Key is "training"; Japanese pilots starts with strong "strafing" skills, so playing Japan, you can get very good results from the go..
that said, after wasting some good KB veteran pilots to AA and OP losses, I decided against doing it unless critical.

I have never played Allies, but for what I read, fighter planes are in short supply, at least at the beginning of the war, thus you might want to be careful

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RE: fighter vs ship question - 4/23/2013 4:56:05 PM   
tigercub


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yes the light japanese fighters are no to good to attack ships loose to many to flak...so don't use the Zero...KI-43 and there guns are to light aswell.

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RE: fighter vs ship question - 4/23/2013 7:19:44 PM   
Lokasenna


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I don't hesitate to use the Zero with its 60kg bombs against light fare (AMs, DDs, AKs, etc.) - a handful of hits from those will sink a DD.

The Nick with its 2x250kg load is even better . Just sunk a CL with those against the AI.

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RE: fighter vs ship question - 4/24/2013 5:25:27 AM   
slane_slith

 

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Thanks everyone,

I figured that planes that carry ordinance would do a decent job I was asking mainly about aircraft that carry guns only.

I've been using Moulmein as a fighter base flying sweeps over Bangcock when the CA's popped up off Tavoy. I couldn't decide if there was any point in sending the "gun only" fighters after the cruisers. Didn't want to have planes and pilots destroyed for no return. Not expecting to sink any CA's but maybe they'll burn up ops points...

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RE: fighter vs ship question - 4/24/2013 9:45:34 AM   
Banzan

 

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As an allied player, you are not only short of fighters early in the war, but also most fighters you have and get are very short legged.

Later you have enough medium bombers to use them against enemy shipping, so there isn't really a need to use fighters for it. Sometimes is use the early australian Beaufighters as anti-shipping FBs, but 250lbs bombs are not really a threat and using them as long range escorts may serve the allied player better.

I always gather as many outdated planes as possible to strip some of the restricted units of its P-38 before disbandig them, as in 05/42 (i think?), they get drop tanks and become the first really usfull long range sweeper/fighter. At start, the production is very low, so having some saved already will make you life much more easy.

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RE: fighter vs ship question - 4/25/2013 10:00:28 PM   
Misconduct


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Mid war the allies boost some awesome aircrafts, B-25H for example, Beaufighters do wonders against ships as P-47's.

I honestly use TBF's mainly, as I spread the half dozen or so squadrons I get around the map and use them to deter any merchant fleets.

Edit:

A squadron of SBD's and two squadrons of F4F's or Corsairs do nicely against merchant ships as well.

< Message edited by Misconduct -- 4/25/2013 10:01:20 PM >


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RE: fighter vs ship question - 4/25/2013 10:09:40 PM   
jmalter

 

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IME, fighters at NavAttack at strafe-level alt will go after those pesky torpedo-boat TFs that are usually ignored by other aircraft.

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RE: fighter vs ship question - 4/26/2013 10:06:10 PM   
crsutton


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

Many fighters can carry ordinance and can be deadly to thin skinned ships. For example the P 40E carries a 500 pd GP bomb that is a merchant ships nightmare! If you want to find out what your fighter can do, click "Naval Attack" for the mission than hit "Aircraft" to find out what it can carry... you will be pleasantly surprised! Set the attack for 1000 feet so that it will hit and can strafe as Barb points out. Hal


I did some extensive testing and the fighters will do damage. Not much but will shoot up barges and small cargo ships and sink them. It depends on the type of guns they have. But my testing showed that it is the bombs that matter. And unfortunately fighter and fighter bomber guns do not suppress flack like those of an attack bomber. At least they did not when I tested some years back. So, Allied fighters are much deadlier than Japanese because of the healthy bombs the carry.


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RE: fighter vs ship question - 4/26/2013 10:07:46 PM   
crsutton


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton


quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

Many fighters can carry ordinance and can be deadly to thin skinned ships. For example the P 40E carries a 500 pd GP bomb that is a merchant ships nightmare! If you want to find out what your fighter can do, click "Naval Attack" for the mission than hit "Aircraft" to find out what it can carry... you will be pleasantly surprised! Set the attack for 1000 feet so that it will hit and can strafe as Barb points out. Hal


I did some extensive testing and the fighters will do damage. Not much but will shoot up barges and small cargo ships and sink them. It depends on the type of guns they have. But my testing showed that it is the bombs that matter. And unfortunately fighter and fighter bomber guns do not suppress flack like those of an attack bomber. At least they did not when I tested some years back. So, Allied fighters are much deadlier than Japanese because of the healthy bombs the carry.


I personally would not send gun only armed fighters against any ship of DD class or larger. You will just lose a lot of planes.



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RE: fighter vs ship question - 4/27/2013 4:01:49 AM   
slane_slith

 

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Using gun only fighters is not my prefered option. I have Moulmein loaded down with fighters and bombers to supress Bangcock, i never intended on fighting TF's with fighters. The fighters at Moulmein are a mixed bag some will carry bombs so won't. I'm not expecting to sink any CA's I just want to annoy them.

Thanks again

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RE: fighter vs ship question - 4/27/2013 5:28:25 AM   
Misconduct


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slane

Using gun only fighters is not my prefered option. I have Moulmein loaded down with fighters and bombers to supress Bangcock, i never intended on fighting TF's with fighters. The fighters at Moulmein are a mixed bag some will carry bombs so won't. I'm not expecting to sink any CA's I just want to annoy them.

Thanks again


Well this is the idea, however if you get lucky and destroy a gun turret its a major repair and takes the ship out of action for a while. I had a Zero bomb one of my cruisers with its 60kg hand grenades and hit a torpedo rack and almost sank the ship, took it out of action until 1944.

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RE: fighter vs ship question - 4/28/2013 3:44:47 AM   
1EyedJacks


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slane

Do fighters, set to naval attack, that only have guns for weapons do any damage? If yes what is the largest vessel that they will damage?

The AI has what appears to be CA's and escorts within range of my fighter base. Any point in sending my fighters in?

Thanks


Fighters with 20mm guns or better seem to do ok with any of the merchant shipping and auxiliary ships. Experience for low level attack and strafing @ 100ft seem to work best for me.



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RE: fighter vs ship question - 4/29/2013 8:29:36 AM   
castor troy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Misconduct


quote:

ORIGINAL: slane

Using gun only fighters is not my prefered option. I have Moulmein loaded down with fighters and bombers to supress Bangcock, i never intended on fighting TF's with fighters. The fighters at Moulmein are a mixed bag some will carry bombs so won't. I'm not expecting to sink any CA's I just want to annoy them.

Thanks again


Well this is the idea, however if you get lucky and destroy a gun turret its a major repair and takes the ship out of action for a while. I had a Zero bomb one of my cruisers with its 60kg hand grenades and hit a torpedo rack and almost sank the ship, took it out of action until 1944.



There must have been more hits then as the 60kg bomb from the Zero only destroyed the torps and may have caused a point or two sys damage as the bomb can't penetrate the deck. There is no such thing in the game as to ignite the torps on deck and the ship being in sinking condition because of this. All you suffer is losing the torp mount, perhaps some sys/flt/fire but that would be marginal from a 60kg bomb.

< Message edited by castor troy -- 4/29/2013 8:30:33 AM >


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RE: fighter vs ship question - 4/29/2013 1:31:24 PM   
zuluhour


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Morning Air attack on TF, near Manila at 79,77

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 66 NM, estimated altitude 6,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 21 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 42

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
PT-33, Shell hits 1
AM Lark, Shell hits 2, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
PT-34, Shell hits 5
PT-31, Shell hits 12

Aircraft Attacking:
42 x A6M2 Zero bombing from 100 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb

Sample from my PBEM, Paul has effectively dealt with my coastal vessals.

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RE: fighter vs ship question - 4/29/2013 1:38:18 PM   
castor troy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

Morning Air attack on TF, near Manila at 79,77

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 66 NM, estimated altitude 6,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 21 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 42

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
PT-33, Shell hits 1
AM Lark, Shell hits 2, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
PT-34, Shell hits 5
PT-31, Shell hits 12

Aircraft Attacking:
42 x A6M2 Zero bombing from 100 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb

Sample from my PBEM, Paul has effectively dealt with my coastal vessals.



is it really worth it? Heavy cloud is still good weather in AE for attacks so I wouldn't be enthusiastic about 42 attacking aircraft sinking one vessel. One can't compare medium bombers with fighters but when I think about 42 lownav trained B-25 (non attack bomber versions) attacking enemy shipping at 1000ft they just wreck havoc. Don't even think about what attack bombers do all carrying 6x500lb bombs. The damage from shell hits is pretty much non existant, not even against as small vessels as PTs so damage done to anything bigger than a PT is even worse for the attacker. Bomb hits count. Damage on PT can be repaired pretty much anywhere in no time and if not, the PT can be sent back into the pool and will show up brand new again.

< Message edited by castor troy -- 4/29/2013 1:39:25 PM >


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RE: fighter vs ship question - 4/29/2013 4:07:32 PM   
crsutton


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As I said and Caster Troy said as well. You really need to have bombs on your aircraft to make it worth while. Zeros with their quail eggs don't count.

I have cried about this before but one of the most disappointing aircraft in the game is the beaufighter. The 250 lb bombs that it carries just are not that effective and strafing just does not work. Because it is a fighter bomber and not an attack bomber, it does not suppress AA and therefore is very vulnerable to flak.

It reality it was a much more dangerous plane.

< Message edited by crsutton -- 4/29/2013 4:09:48 PM >


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RE: fighter vs ship question - 4/29/2013 4:16:57 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

quote:

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

Morning Air attack on TF, near Manila at 79,77

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 66 NM, estimated altitude 6,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 21 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 42

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
PT-33, Shell hits 1
AM Lark, Shell hits 2, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
PT-34, Shell hits 5
PT-31, Shell hits 12

Aircraft Attacking:
42 x A6M2 Zero bombing from 100 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb

Sample from my PBEM, Paul has effectively dealt with my coastal vessals.



is it really worth it? Heavy cloud is still good weather in AE for attacks so I wouldn't be enthusiastic about 42 attacking aircraft sinking one vessel. One can't compare medium bombers with fighters but when I think about 42 lownav trained B-25 (non attack bomber versions) attacking enemy shipping at 1000ft they just wreck havoc. Don't even think about what attack bombers do all carrying 6x500lb bombs. The damage from shell hits is pretty much non existant, not even against as small vessels as PTs so damage done to anything bigger than a PT is even worse for the attacker. Bomb hits count. Damage on PT can be repaired pretty much anywhere in no time and if not, the PT can be sent back into the pool and will show up brand new again.


For the Allies with their 250-lb. bombs on fighters it's worth doing some LowNav, even early war, IMO. I remember when I was first playing (granted, against the AI) I was using P-39s and P-40s to drive off invasion fleets around Port Moresby with decent levels of success.

For the IJN, only the Ki-45 Nick is really worth using on LowNav, unless you have no other option and surplus Zeroes sitting around. The 60-kg. bombs on the Zeroes/Oscars don't do much to anything bigger than coastal escorts or xAKLs.

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RE: fighter vs ship question - 4/30/2013 5:43:25 PM   
AirGriff


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It's been a long time since I did the testing, but I did a fair test bed on early war allied fighters. The mg hits from 100' did a little damage to ak's and tk's, but not enough to sink them. Certainly was enough to force repairs, though. What I believe may go unnoticed by many is that the strafe hits destroy cargo. I can't remember the numbers, but a fair amount of loaded supply was destroyed, something approaching 50 percent for only a handful of hits. Doesn't sound all that exciting a result I suppose, but I'm of the understanding that IJ players are somewhat desperate for supply in this game, so the impact may be greater than many suspect. I never tested against ships carrying lcu's.

Of corsse, guns and ordinance had a big impact on results. Cannon hits were most effective, followed by 50 cal., but 30 cal. was pretty worthless.

Please note I did the testing a long time ago, so things may have been changed.

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