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RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame

 
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RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame - 3/13/2014 3:35:32 AM   
lion_of_judah


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you are correct, I'm not very good at naval strategy and I did waste those ships. It was you who pushed me into using my subs more and I'm glad I did. Those german subs of mine was a pain in the butt from what earlier AAR's had said. I also think that your doing the production was a great help as well.

< Message edited by lion_of_judah -- 3/13/2014 4:36:03 AM >

(in reply to ernieschwitz)
Post #: 571
RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame - 3/13/2014 3:46:54 AM   
ernieschwitz

 

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About the Italians.

They had the victory condition to take large parts of france and spain. It all looked good, until they failed to take Malta. (which every Italian player must). When the fleet evaporated, and the Spanish diplomacy was lost, it seemed that that was out of reach. Not sure if the Italians could ever take Malta, and not entirely sure that they could clear Spain of allies.... but, they had a boxers chance.

(in reply to ernieschwitz)
Post #: 572
RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame - 3/13/2014 4:21:20 AM   
ernieschwitz

 

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Things the allies did right:

Well firstly, it was a great idea to build those factories in India. It is possible to get from India to africa pretty quick, and also from India to Burma and Indonesia quick as well. Especially I think that it was going to be very annoying for the Japanese ...

Secondly Bombur, playing the soviets for a while, stopped the German offensive, using masses of artillery to stop the germans from attacking. It was a great ploy. I thought it had made the game a stalemate actually, not sure what happened to change this.

Getting the Italians out of Libya, was also a good ploy. Getting that closer to Italy felt dangerous. Getting Spain to join the allies was also not very polite :P as was the portugese alliance with the allies.

Also it seems like that the allies learned from the Germans how to use subs against the Japanese.

I think that the allies might have had a better time with their transports across the atlantic, the way things were, by using actual transport ships, and loading them, and convoying them with actual destroyers. The transfers of units simply cost, in my view, too many troops, and the assigning of US troops under the flag of the Soviet and British was a waste, cause they fought only at 80% of their strength.

(in reply to ernieschwitz)
Post #: 573
RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame - 3/13/2014 4:52:04 AM   
Twotribes


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Still think the kiss of death was absolutely no bombing by the USA. Germany was free of attrition on their production centers and from what I got from the updates was skimping on air defense because of it.

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Post #: 574
RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame - 3/13/2014 5:01:07 AM   
lion_of_judah


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I wouldn't say The Germans did not have much of an air defense, as I was building each aa unit up with 8-10 aa pieces in each unit and they were heavy aa. My factories were producing more fighters than anything else aircraft wise but I was able to produce 1 heavy AA piece each turn


< Message edited by lion_of_judah -- 3/13/2014 6:14:31 AM >

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Post #: 575
RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame - 3/13/2014 5:10:43 AM   
lion_of_judah


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I think what helped the Italians was their producing the torpedo bomber which took a heavy toll on allied ships in the European theater. Also their production of level 2 tank destroyers as I was producing them enough to outfit 2tankdestroyer units every 2 turns. The Japanese were building cruisers again and they were about ready too come out in force. Also the Japanese level 2 torpedo bombers took their share of allied ships, so all in all the tide of war was very much turning in my favor on all fronts. That is at least my opinion

< Message edited by lion_of_judah -- 3/13/2014 6:12:03 AM >

(in reply to ernieschwitz)
Post #: 576
RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame - 3/13/2014 5:19:54 AM   
ernieschwitz

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Twotribes
Still think the kiss of death was absolutely no bombing by the USA. Germany was free of attrition on their production centers and from what I got from the updates was skimping on air defense because of it.


Imagnine if the Germans had, had to develope Night Fighter IIs or above. That would have been costly. And building them even moreso. I agree that the allies should have waged a bombing campaign on something... as MacArthur said, hit them where they ain´t.

There was no way the Germans could have covered the entire area of France, Germany and the BeNeLux, along with the deeper areas of Middle/East Europe, from being bombed (if the Allies had used the air bases in Norway and Sweden), without it having an effect on the Soviet front. Also a Bombing campaign against the southern part of europe might have brought Italy to its knees.

You can´t just send fighters in over land, and expect there to be interceptors. If there is no threat of bombing, why keep those interceptors there at all?

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RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame - 3/13/2014 5:55:12 AM   
kombrig

 

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After the Allies stopped their air offensive in Europe the Soviets did not have real chance anymore. It was possible to keep the Germans back until they researched Medium Tank IV and especially V. Until then the German armor did not impress much, the Soviet T-34 M40s were able to deal with them without much problems even if they were less in numbers than the German armor. However the Soviet industry was unable to keep pace in arms research.

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Post #: 578
RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame - 3/13/2014 6:09:24 AM   
ernieschwitz

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kombrig
After the Allies stopped their air offensive in Europe the Soviets did not have real chance anymore. It was possible to keep the Germans back until they researched Medium Tank IV and especially V. Until then the German armor did not impress much, the Soviet T-34 M40s were able to deal with them without much problems even if they were less in numbers than the German armor. However the Soviet industry was unable to keep pace in arms research.


Yeah. That has been remedied somewhat in the newest version. The Soviets get more base production, that is bigger prodcution sites, and the cost of evacuating cities of industry has been lessened. Also where the staff levels before were about 10% they are now at about 75%. However there is a cost ... the soviet soldier fights at 80%, until the first soviet city/production site, that they start with, is in enemy hands, then after they play a cheap card, they get slowly back up to 100%.

I think that the soviet union was alittle too weak in this game.

(in reply to kombrig)
Post #: 579
RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame - 3/13/2014 4:31:43 PM   
Jeffrey H.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lion_of_judah

once moscow has fallen, we can talk of a possible peace deal. Here are a few items to contemplate......

item 1- ALL ALLIED FORCES WITHDRAW FROM SPAIN, INDIA AND THE NEAR EAST
item 2- ITEM 1 IS NEGOTIABLE WITHIN TERMS SET FOURTH BY BERLIN



Rhetoric aside, I will not continue to play. I am willing to pass my game to Bombur or anyone else for that matter if they wish to continue the game. The British are in better shape than you might think.



_____________________________

History began July 4th, 1776. Anything before that was a mistake.

Ron Swanson

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RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame - 3/13/2014 4:58:57 PM   
ironduke1955


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Thanks for the AAR guys entertaining and informative. I will express no opinion on the reasons for winning and losing I wasn't there so I can't say. But thanks again for the AAR.

(in reply to Jeffrey H.)
Post #: 581
RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame - 3/13/2014 5:01:37 PM   
Jeffrey H.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lion_of_judah

I would like to know what each player thinks about the strengths and weaknesses of each player in this game so we can learn not to repeat those same mistakes again or repeat if possible those actions which helped victory become a real possibility. I'll go first



Since you asked.... :)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lion_of_judah

the British..... in my opinion if the British had kept up the air war no matter the loses and was more aggressive in their land campaign then things may have turned out different. By the British stopping their air war when they did, this gave me the time to rebuild my Luftwaffe cause I will tell you, the western front air war was on the verge of defeat for me as I was truly nervous and worried...



Several things happened at that time. I had no more targets flying from England with my fighter sweeps. I had two fighter groups of Spit V's IIRC that had cleared the skies, but only within their range, which was very limited. I moved one over to Stockholm to try and help the Russians, supply was not maintained and I barely got them back several tuns later to England, their readiness shot for another few turns after that. The other group I moved into Spain to cover the coming offensive there.

So, this notion of "stopping" was simply not true. I had been using British home production for fighters instead of supply as well, which had to be changed as my HQ's ran out of supply, so I was really overextended to begin with.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lion_of_judah

The British stopped me in Spain, but then stopped. If they had of moved more mobile forces there while it was still just italy they could have been in France and at the Rhine in no time. As all my German forces for the most part were on the Eastern front and I did not have much in the way of infantry stopping or much else that could have stopped them. Their pause again, helped me to bring more forces too bear and basically stop the Allies. This gave Italy time to rebuild and there you have it, Turkey finally fell.



When I tripped Spain diplomatically I knew I had trouble on my hands. In retrospect I still debate this move. The reality of the Spanish forces was lack of supply, zero command and a rag tag assembly of 2nd line troops from all over the place. Amazingly we were able to stop and then beat back the Italians. The Americans came in and made a great contribution, at first.

I had driven the Italians back to the Pyrenees and I knew the Axis was getting desparate because the Germans showed up. In a few turns, my air units were ruined and I was no longer facing a withering Italian presence. I was facing front line German units on the ground. The forces in Spain were no match given the poor supply, commmand and force structure and defensive terrain. Add to that the loss of air supremacy and there was no other choice but to stop and use the terrain to our advantage on defense.

It was a duct tape and shoestring operation from the start to the end.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lion_of_judah

In my opinion pausing for very long once you have begun your offensive is not good, especially when you have the enemy on the ropes. That is when you go all out and defeat the enemy. The Japanese while it was beginning to look promising and victory was again looking like it might happen was only thin, a little more of a push from the Allies in this theater and My front line forces for the Japanese were paper thin in most areas and a good push a time or two would have cracked this baby and opened a hole for a major breakthrough if the allies had just been more aggressive.



And what would we use to push them with ? The offensive strength of Indian units vs. Japanese units was very poor. A few attempts were made at offense and those were completely obliterated. Again, the only choice it to wage a war of defensive attrition on the ground and make the most of the air advantage.




_____________________________

History began July 4th, 1776. Anything before that was a mistake.

Ron Swanson

(in reply to lion_of_judah)
Post #: 582
RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame - 3/13/2014 5:06:12 PM   
Jeffrey H.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kombrig

After the Allies stopped their air offensive in Europe the Soviets did not have real chance anymore. It was possible to keep the Germans back until they researched Medium Tank IV and especially V. Until then the German armor did not impress much, the Soviet T-34 M40s were able to deal with them without much problems even if they were less in numbers than the German armor. However the Soviet industry was unable to keep pace in arms research.



Wrong ! There was no stopping. It never stopped. It was going on all the time but in different ways.


_____________________________

History began July 4th, 1776. Anything before that was a mistake.

Ron Swanson

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Post #: 583
RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame - 3/13/2014 5:12:15 PM   
Jeffrey H.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

Still think the kiss of death was absolutely no bombing by the USA. Germany was free of attrition on their production centers and from what I got from the updates was skimping on air defense because of it.



It is true that the USA had nothing going on in Western Europe, (less Spain of course). In the end England had achieved a fledgeling strategic bombing group and the addition of a 3rd, home based aircraft factory was adding more to the force. I would say I had a temporary air supremacy withing the range of the Spit XiV's which was not very good.

So, at least within the range of the Spit XiV's, German production was going to progressively suffer more and more. I did see on my last bombing mission some Ta152's along with FW190D's but they were not doing any significant damage to my forces.



_____________________________

History began July 4th, 1776. Anything before that was a mistake.

Ron Swanson

(in reply to Twotribes)
Post #: 584
RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame - 3/13/2014 5:23:09 PM   
Jeffrey H.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lion_of_judah

I think what helped the Italians was their producing the torpedo bomber which took a heavy toll on allied ships in the European theater. Also their production of level 2 tank destroyers as I was producing them enough to outfit 2tankdestroyer units every 2 turns. The Japanese were building cruisers again and they were about ready too come out in force. Also the Japanese level 2 torpedo bombers took their share of allied ships, so all in all the tide of war was very much turning in my favor on all fronts. That is at least my opinion



This was an entertaining part of the game. I WANTED you to continue to attack the French. Ha ! They were useless. All the French forces were completely useless once Saigon fell, they had no supply. Your belief that you were having great victories sinking useless out of supply rusting hulks that I could not even move was something I wanted. So I kept quiet about it and hoped you'd send you planes after them again, instead of using them for something more valuable. I shot up most of those on the ground. Too funny.

The Japs really did clean me out of ships, although I had countered that to some extent. Lots more ships were heading into the region, things' there were looking up from my perspective.



_____________________________

History began July 4th, 1776. Anything before that was a mistake.

Ron Swanson

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RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame - 3/13/2014 5:28:52 PM   
ironduke1955


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Purely from a historical perspective the USA split was Europe 90% resources Pacific 10% the Pacific war was fought on a shoestring.

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RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame - 3/13/2014 5:32:15 PM   
Jeffrey H.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ernieschwitz

Things the allies did right:

Well firstly, it was a great idea to build those factories in India. It is possible to get from India to africa pretty quick, and also from India to Burma and Indonesia quick as well. Especially I think that it was going to be very annoying for the Japanese ...



Yes, it was a great move. It was Bomburs suggestion and it immediately changed the course of events. I was sending Indian units to North Africe and Spain as well as Burma.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ernieschwitz

I think that the allies might have had a better time with their transports across the atlantic, the way things were, by using actual transport ships, and loading them, and convoying them with actual destroyers. The transfers of units simply cost, in my view, too many troops, and the assigning of US troops under the flag of the Soviet and British was a waste, cause they fought only at 80% of their strength.



I was using transports. I had managed to build up a fleet of troop transport II's that was shuttling units all over the place. They were escorted by a small destroyer group that would move out ahead of them and trip any hidden sub groups. It worked pretty well but there was only so much. I think the US could have done more of this.



_____________________________

History began July 4th, 1776. Anything before that was a mistake.

Ron Swanson

(in reply to ernieschwitz)
Post #: 587
RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame - 3/13/2014 5:48:07 PM   
Jeffrey H.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ernieschwitz

I also found that the Allies, early on should have blocked the naval passageways to the North Sea, and through the Channel, with their subs, to prevent german Uboats from escaping into the Atlantic. It´s about 5 hexes that need to be covered, with submarines. Having to fight those submarines each turn to get out, was one of the worst things I have ever tried.



As you note, I was doing this already. After 20 or 30 turns, I had no forces left. I was surviving on 2nd line stuff I was aquiring through diplomatic events and reflagging the vessels. It all boils down to prodution.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ernieschwitz

I also think that the allies gave up to early on the Night Bombing campaign. Early on the only defence Germany had was about 20 Night Fighter Is and 2 heavy flak in each obvious target. I also think that it was dead stupid to try and bomb somewhere that had a navy parked in it. As the navy gets to shoot back.



Wrong ! we didn't give up, we were obliterated. Throwing everything we had into a meat grinder turn after turn with nothing to show for it. Continuing to do so was not going to change anything. Every night capable unit was turned into scrap metal over Germany and France. Nothing left. You have to change your plans if you want to make it to turn 80+. If I had kept it up with the pointless night bombing the Russians would have capitulated in turn 60.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ernieschwitz

I found that in the beginning speed was of the essence, that Germany had to keep a good pace, and do surprising things, so as to constantly keep the allies guessing, and had the Soviets tried early to attack the Germans, especially while they were occupied sweeping through Europe that would have been the end.



Instead the Soviets attacked and conquered Finland and flipped Turkey. Both bad moves.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ernieschwitz

I think Frank essentially wasted the German fleet, in an attempt to send it towards Britain. It should have stayed in the Baltic, and shelled everything along the coastline there... Also I was very frustrated that Stockholm was not overrun...



From my perspective, the Germans could have had both Norway and Stockholm any time they wanted to. They simply chose not to. That was ok for them I think because those places didn't do very much the entire war.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ernieschwitz

Lastly, and not applying to later versions of the game, since counter battery has been removed from the game. The French essentially wasted their artillery, in the maginot, bombarding the German artillery across the river, thus losing alot of it.




All of it. It was doomed anyway so what's the difference ? It was amazing how ineffecive it was. It was actually entertaining to watch it be destoyed by counterbattery fire. Useless.




_____________________________

History began July 4th, 1776. Anything before that was a mistake.

Ron Swanson

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RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame - 3/13/2014 7:40:47 PM   
Twotribes


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A suggestion? Aircraft can not be ferried by ship anywhere except of course naval aircraft. You have to transfer it from a HQs to a unit or other HQs. This means that the German subs get to destroy the aircraft with no recourse. Perhaps make it possible to transport aircraft on cargo ships? Or make a special aircraft cargo version? During the war aircraft was shipped by cargo ships to locations, that's how all the low range aircraft made it to Europe and the Pacific.

(in reply to Jeffrey H.)
Post #: 589
RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame - 3/13/2014 8:35:11 PM   
lion_of_judah


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We'll Jeffrey you are partly correct, you forgot to mention those British ships mainly destroyers, but there were 1 or 2 battleships and some cruisers which the Italians did sink in the Med. :) The Itlaians hit the Soviets as well and the only reason why I hit the French was because they were all I could find, being that you were hiding your navy pretty well and my lack of recon planes

yes the Japs did do a pretty good of sinking some 1st line ships for the British, as the Americans did a good job sinking my main fleet as well.



< Message edited by lion_of_judah -- 3/13/2014 10:03:43 PM >

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RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame - 3/13/2014 8:49:04 PM   
ernieschwitz

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Twotribes
A suggestion? Aircraft can not be ferried by ship anywhere except of course naval aircraft. You have to transfer it from a HQs to a unit or other HQs. This means that the German subs get to destroy the aircraft with no recourse. Perhaps make it possible to transport aircraft on cargo ships? Or make a special aircraft cargo version? During the war aircraft was shipped by cargo ships to locations, that's how all the low range aircraft made it to Europe and the Pacific.


Because of the way carriers function, any cargoship that can carry aircraft, would be able to use them like they could land on the cargoship and preform missions.

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RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame - 3/13/2014 9:24:06 PM   
lion_of_judah


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on the Pacific theater..... the Chinese proved too be rather a touch cookie to crack, till toward the end as I was making headway but only because I make the choice and created a new HQ on the mainland and switched all army HQ's to the new China Command. I then created a tank factory and gun factory for the china command. My offensive was renewed cause I had a large force of light tanks along with arty level 3 which helped punch holes in the chinese lines. On the Thai Front I was making great progress and had two light tank groups with 10 tanks each heading for this location. I could say that a major breakthrough was about to occur.....

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Post #: 592
RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame - 3/14/2014 1:03:51 AM   
lion_of_judah


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looks like bombur is going to keep fighting. sounds good too me

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Post #: 593
RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame - 3/14/2014 6:01:17 AM   
lion_of_judah


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America refuses to sign peace deal, says they will continue to fight so "WAR SHALL CONTINUE".......new turn has been emailed out

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RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame - 3/15/2014 8:30:23 PM   
Jeffrey H.


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IF the game continues I'll not post screenshots of the British force and production disposition. If no one picks it up, I'll add some more pictures.



_____________________________

History began July 4th, 1776. Anything before that was a mistake.

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Post #: 595
RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame - 3/22/2014 4:44:29 PM   
lion_of_judah


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.....NEWS UPDATE....WAR CONTINUES ON ALL FRONTS.....

German forces have now captured Moscow, and Leningrad. Germany is now eying those air factories the soviets have and new objective is to capture these and put them to good use. The Luftwaffe is now moving some air units toward the western front as the war in the east appears too be almost over.

Italy is continuing to move forces into the middle east, Turkish front has collapsed for the Soviets and for now has stabilized.

Chinese/Thai fronts....... Appears the U.S. supply interdiction is beginning to take effect on my forces in China. The Japanese command has now made several changes and brought supply in china up to acceptable levels in order to sustain our offensives. The Indian city of Daaca has fallen as well, as our drive into India continues

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RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame - 3/24/2014 8:51:59 PM   
lion_of_judah


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......NEWS UPDATE.....

Soviet lines have solidified on the central front again, so hard fighting ahead before the aircraft factories objective is reached, but they will be reached. Rostov has fallen but Kertch is proving too be a harder nut to crack than first thought.

Western front- all new aircraft are being sent to this front as replacements for current losses. this front is rather stalemated, but hopefully soon, this will change

Pacific theater.......

Japanese forces are driving deeper into India, but Chinese offensive will now go over to defensive with counterattacks as needed. Having a harder time bringing over more infantry over too the mainland as the U.S. and British navies are causing me supply problems. China command has solved the supply problem and now all forces are supplied.

(in reply to lion_of_judah)
Post #: 597
RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame - 4/5/2014 7:09:17 PM   
lion_of_judah


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........Soviets have attacked the Japanese in a sneak attack, which will be avenged unless the Soviets withdraw their forces. A message was sent through diplomatic channels in hopes of averting a wider war.

Eastern front.....offensive continues, Stalingrad fell without a fight. The Soviet oilfields are now within site as are the Soviet aircraft factories....

Pacific theater.....

Japanese offensive in India continues.....

(in reply to lion_of_judah)
Post #: 598
RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame - 4/6/2014 6:26:46 AM   
lion_of_judah


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.......NEWS FLASH.....

Soviets have chose to ignore the gracious offer from Japan, so now Japan declares a full state of war against the Soviets. Imperial Japanese GHQ has declared all of Soviet Asia is now for the taking. Forces are now being sent north into Manchuria. It appears though that now Chinese conscripts will have too be used.

Eastern Front......German secret weapon has now been deployed and operational. Offensive in the east continues

Italy.....Italian forces have now moved into the middle east......

(in reply to lion_of_judah)
Post #: 599
RE: GD 1938 v 2, testgame - 4/27/2014 2:20:28 AM   
Bombur

 

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Update: December 1944

European Front
-Stalemate in Spain, Barcelona is almost surrounded and some Italian units were forced to retreate, but lines are stable
-Spitifires XIV are inflicting heavy losses to German early jets. Superiority in numbers is a big issue here. Some strategic bombing against German and occupied cities
Middle East: Italian Forces took Palestine, Syria, Lebanon and now are at the gates of Cairo and Baghdad. Some Soviet forces are joing the British ones
East Front
-USSR on the verge of collapse. USA Engineers are building factories for the Soviets in the Far East.
India
-Japanese offensive stalled. British aircraft inflicting heavy losses to Japanese land troops and Japanese artillery doing the same to British ones
-Pacific
-Japanese navy has all but ceased to exist. USAAF starting strategic bombing of Japanese cities. Japan has no counter to the new P-51H´s and night Bombers.
Tokyo almost destroyed.
-Taiwan fell to USA forces, it will become an airbase soon.
-China
-Slow advance of Japan, Chinese taking losses but able to keep most positions.
-Sian fell to Japan
-Chinese aircraft flying from Hainan are starting to attack Japanese targets in Canton
-Japanese expelled from Phillipines

(in reply to lion_of_judah)
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