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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

 
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/9/2013 7:41:47 PM   
Canoerebel


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I'm already feeding xAKs into and out of Sabang - efficiently and effectively (and getting accused by some readers of trying to soak off carrier sorties in the process, I might add). However, Sabang cannot stand merely by using xAKs to run the gauntlet. Japanese combat ship bombardments against a clear terrain base will completely wipe out supply and disable the troops in short order. I have a (pardon me for saying) well-thought-out defense in depth that cannot be broken (IMO) unless Japan can win the air war. The weak point is, as noted, the fighter war (or, more specifically, meager replacement rates). So, from that aspect, it can be argued the campaign wasn't well thought out. I understand that thinking. But my thinking is that by late '42, when the Allies have already performed very well in the air war, it shouldn't be nearly impossible to replace fighter losses or to sustain an air campaign.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/9/2013 7:44:42 PM   
witpqs


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@CR - When you say 'the game' I really think you should limit that to 'the scenario', as the basic scenarios for the game should try to mimic the historical units/men/material/capabilities. The game balance there is in the victory conditions.

You guys are playing a mod that, while based on a historical units/men/material/capabilities scenario (Babes), is an intentional non-historical variant. A 'what if?'

If you want greater Allied pools in '42, that is also a non-historical mod. And plenty valid it is, but asking the basic historical units/men/material/capabilities scenarios to have greater Allied pools is not valid.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/9/2013 8:39:14 PM   
Canoerebel


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12/28/42

Another quiet day! But this time I think it ends. John took an inordinantly long time on the orders phase of his turn and then tried to cover it by saying he'd had a little thing to do at home. I don't believe him. I think he was gearing up for the grand assault. (But I've thought so every day...)

Carriers: No sign of the KB, but there continue to be patrol reports of some kind of enemy carriers in the Malacca Straits - carrying aux planes but no strike aircraft. Probably a few expendable CVE or a robust CS would be my guess. The Allied carriers are SE of Ceylon - escorts tangled with I-166 to no effect. The carriers will move SE tonight - not far, but somewhat into Indian country. I need them in this general sector to allow them to transfer fighters to Sabang if called on.

Sumatra: Continued minor tweaking by the Allies. Sabang supply up to 275k. Two more supply TFs inbound. Fatigue on fighter units is very good. Not a single fighter is disabled. I toyed with bringing in carrier fighters, but decided to see how the first round of combat goes. I'm concerned, as you can tell by my posts, but I'm not without hope. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

Elsewhere: Nothing worth going into.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/9/2013 8:59:19 PM   
Lomri

 

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Yes, clear terrain in Sabang is a liability. But right down the road you have Langsa which can be developed into a level 9 AF. And it is on the rail line so you can shift between them. And it is jungle terrain. (Of course it is closer to his lines, but it gives you options).

I do think you could use a little dose of the GJ spirit - you are already wary of having issues in the air and he hasn't even hit you with the kitchen sink yet! Buck up! If this is getting boring, do something crazy. You always have the Kuriles. (Plus I really want to see how this plays out ;)


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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/9/2013 9:05:45 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I'm already feeding xAKs into and out of Sabang - efficiently and effectively (and getting accused by some readers of trying to soak off carrier sorties in the process, I might add). However, Sabang cannot stand merely by using xAKs to run the gauntlet. Japanese combat ship bombardments against a clear terrain base will completely wipe out supply and disable the troops in short order. I have a (pardon me for saying) well-thought-out defense in depth that cannot be broken (IMO) unless Japan can win the air war. The weak point is, as noted, the fighter war (or, more specifically, meager replacement rates). So, from that aspect, it can be argued the campaign wasn't well thought out. I understand that thinking. But my thinking is that by late '42, when the Allies have already performed very well in the air war, it shouldn't be nearly impossible to replace fighter losses or to sustain an air campaign.


I don't expect to change your mind, but for the record:

1) Forts help immensely at protecting the troops. Bombardment doesn't damage them.

2) You have huge supply dumps and 200-300 running xAKs, with more shuttles coming and going from CT to Colombo, will keep up with what he can bombard and burn.

3) To bombard he has to re-arm. At Singers for BBs most likely. You have enough subs to be able to walk on them in the Malacca Strait. If he comes around the IO side of Sumatra you can pounce from open water. Do the math on BB cycle time for bombarding Sabang from Singers. About one mission a week? With no damage from CDs? You can stand that.

4) You have over 800 mines at Sabang.

5) Same as you can shuttle in fighters you can shuttle CAs and good, modern DDs in and out. You don't have to sink BBs to relieve Sabang from bombardment. You only have to dent them.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/9/2013 9:21:08 PM   
Canoerebel


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Moose, you're not telling me anything I don't know since I created Fortress Sabang with these things in mind. I've discussed those things previously. For instance, it's why I turned on fort building recently. I'd just prefer the capability to defend it with some modicum of air power. Not saying I can't. We'll see.

As for GreyJoy, methinks your memory is askew. Go back and read GJ's AARs and you'll find lots of good-natured and sincere hand wringing about his various plights. (But the dude is an uncommonly good sport.)

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/9/2013 9:54:58 PM   
crsutton


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Not sure why in the world John would have to post hundreds of fighters over Palembang. Allied 4EB are present in limited numbers and fighters don't have the range for escort. From what I've seen, John could easily defend P'Bang and have scads leftover.

There are many other places that it doesn't make sense to invade if the Allies can't fight a fair air war in late '42.

My point simply is that the Allied replacement pools are too low. This wouldn't be tough to address. Big deal, right?



Well probably not in 1942, but by giving him that HR you were only "leaning into his curveball."

Personally, I think you can hold and if you don't the campaign alone has beat him as he has really done nothing since your invasion but react to it. He could have been elsewhere on the map conducting offensive operations otherwise. Do everything you can to hold Sabang but lose your carriers. You can recover from any other loss. If if he throws you out his victory will be pyrrhic. As for your weariness. After the campaign, ask for a break until after the new year. No since giving up what can be a very long and fine game because you are burnt out. Take a break. You have done that before.

BTW I am on vacation in Cape Hatteras and really enjoying my first copy of Georgia Backwoods. It is a very nice magazine. My wife likes it too.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/9/2013 10:05:37 PM   
witpqs


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Do you guys also have a house rule about 4EB and bombing ground troops?

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/9/2013 10:31:44 PM   
Canoerebel


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12/29/42

I am agog! Yet another day with no big enemy attacks. Am I utterly misreading my opponent? Is he about to invade Perth? I don't think so.

Carriers: No sign of enemy carriers. The Allied carriers will make a bigger jump today, just to keep from being predictable. I consider transferring some fighters to Ramree, which has recently been under concerted air attacks with the Hurricanes now wiped out, but decide that this isn't the time to chance attriting my "theater reserve fighters." The carriers will, however, move fairly close to Port Blair.

Sumatra: CL Richmond TF, under command of Ching Lee, is going to attempt the sprint from Bay of Bengal to Sabang. All fighter groups at Sabang continue to look very good. One supply TF finished unloading and is retiring to Ceylon; two more are inbound, taking a more southerly course to avoid John's raiders (and thus taking a course likely to lead to accusations of trying to soak off sorties). Several enemy TFs west of Padang - could be amphibious and combat ships bound for Nias or Sinabang or perhaps even something deeper (I continue to watch Diego, thinking it unlikely but not impossible that John might target it).

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/9/2013 11:56:59 PM   
GreyJoy


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Dan, Even if you lose the air battle, you're not gonna lose Sebang imho. Untill your CVs are alive, he won't be able to stop you completely from resupplying it.
And he'll be forced to keep the KB there... thus opening a can of possibilities everywhere in the rest of the map. This game will become even more interesting if you actually lose the air battle and start the siege of Sebang.

keep it up!

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/10/2013 12:32:52 AM   
MateDow


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i am enjoying following this game, and I hope that you continue with it.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/10/2013 7:08:43 AM   
CaptBeefheart


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I hope you keep going. This is a very interesting and informative AAR, as are all of yours.

Cheers,
CC

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/10/2013 3:19:37 PM   
Canoerebel


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12/30/42

"I am aghast! I am agog!" (What recent blockbuster movie features those lines?) No IJ attack today. Judging by John's email, though, it's imminent. And judging by the developments on the map, ditto. He's coming.

Allied Carriers: Move to a point NW of Port Blair, a position from which SBDs sortie against three IJN DDs damaged in a fight earlier in the day with Ching Lee's CL TF (which sank a fourth DD). The SBDs sink two more DDs. From whence do they go from here? See next paragraph. (Ching Lee's combat ships are a little worse for the wear, so they shall retire to Ceylon rather than moving forward to Sabang. At Colombo, newly repaired CA New Orleans is anxious to reunite with her erstwhile commander.)

KB: Picket DE Stewart (I dare anybody to claim it's positioning and purpose was gamey) was given orders to move due south about four hexes and ran into the KB, engaging in at least four rounds of surface combat and landing small caliber shots on several enemy fleet carriers before getting sunk by surface fire. The enemy carriers are well to the west of Sabang and not too far from my main sea lane - enemy strike aircraft and sink three inbound supply xAK. I think the KB is hunting my carriers - not positioning to hit Sabang. Since my carriers are even more important than Sabang, I order them to retire to a point near Trincomalee. The KB can cut the corner and engage, but that would be about the least advantageous position John could seek for battle - far from his ports and with lots of my subs able to intercept - so I don't think he'll do that. I briefly considered a variety of uses for the carrier fighters, but ultimately decided to keep the current lineup.

Enemy Combat Ships: Five BBs came in to bombard Langsa and Sinabang today, so it's unlikely John has surface combat in mind in the immediate future. So this is shaping up as an air battle at first, rather than an all-out attack.

Sabang: 280k supply; airfield at 8.16; forts should reach level three tomorrow. All fighter squadron fatigue looks good. The Allies have about 40 P-40K in the pool now, so the cubbard isn't completely barren.

Johnny OpSec: His email yesterday indicated tomorrow was the big day. An email that arrived a minute ago reconfirmed. I wish I could have thought up some way to take advantage of him giving me the precise moment of attack, but ultimately I just felt like I have to give the current lineup a chance before committing my carriers in a big way. But if he chooses this moment to flank speed his carriers to Ceylon, we are in for a big dust-up.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/10/2013 6:20:49 PM   
Canoerebel


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12/31/42

What Hath God Wrought? I'm wrong yet again. No massive Japanese attack on Sabang. This reminds me of two other occasions: (1) when John thought the Allies were going to invade New Guinea back in early November, and (2) our first WitP PBEM match in which a massive Allied invasion fleet steamed west towards Wake Island and then Iwo Jima, moving slowly and in plain sight while I tried to figure out what I wanted and while John declined to attack. I may be misreading John here. Perhaps he's up to something else, like hoping the proximity of his forces will goad me into making a mistake. Or maybe it's just that it's taking him awhile to get all pieces - like base forces and supply - into place. I dunno, but we end the year quietly instead of with fireworks.

Carriers: The IJN carriers are about midway between Sabang and Colombo, slightly west of a straight line between the two. No sorties flown. The Allied carriers "disappeared into the shades," as GJ would say. John knows there approximate location, I'm sure. So what do I do now? Move the carriers towards Colombo? Strip the fighters and move them to Sabang and Langsa? Strip the fighters and move them to Akyab to orchestrate an ambush over a field that's recently come under heavy attack? I haven't decided yet.

Sumatra: Everything looks good here. The elements of 37th Infantry Division recombined today (proving that the three RCT don't need to be the same HQ, which I thought was the case, and thus saving 800 PP). This is one of the units blocking the road leading to northern Sumatra. Sabang forts go to level three.

Colombo: As usual, the triage unit is full - mainly with CAs Pensacola and Quincy, a few DDs, and some subs. 220 fighters are posted here - enough to bleed but not stop and enemy attack. I don't think John willl get frisky enough to attack what to him must seem to be a hardened target. I hope that's the case.

New Caledonia: Some enemy small carriers and at least three CAs are operating near Noumea. John's done well to continue looking out for other theaters, but at the same time it's great to see major forces out here in what, to my way of thinking, is unimportant territory.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/10/2013 6:47:32 PM   
JohnDillworth


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quote:

(1) when John thought the Allies were going to invade New Guinea back in early November
I wouldn't worry too much about this, but I'm not sure what those coded numbers at the end of each of his posts are

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/10/2013 6:50:38 PM   
Canoerebel


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*ack*!

It would be very appropriate and funny if a big invasion TF showed up at Perth or Pago Pago tomorrow. I would tip my cap to John (though I'd also question his sanity). But I think where his carriers are, there he be.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/10/2013 6:54:03 PM   
Walloc

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

[Sumatra: Everything looks good here. The elements of 37th Infantry Division recombined today (proving that the three RCT don't need to be the same HQ, which I thought was the case, and thus saving 800 PP). This is one of the units blocking the road leading to northern Sumatra. Sabang forts go to level three.


Hi Dan,

If i were u. i would look further into this(ask MichaelM). This isnt universally true. Including a pic of the Americal div that cant recombine exactly cuz of one of the reg is a diff HQ than the 2 others. Only difference i could see tho i as i read the rules it shouldnt make any difference. Is that this is a case of 1 reg is in a restricted HQ and that prolly isnt the case in ur example and taht ur is as a recombine of RCTs not a such a rebuild of a division. Then there has been so many changes in the patches that well no one can be sure any more:-)

No, my test isnt in RA so there is that difference, but i would assume tho it might be incorrect that the rules for such is suppose to be the same as it goes to core rules of the game.

Rasmus




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Walloc -- 9/10/2013 7:08:37 PM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/10/2013 8:14:08 PM   
Capt. Harlock


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quote:

"I am aghast! I am agog!" (What recent blockbuster movie features those lines?)


"Les Miserables" -- which is probably a good description of your remaining forces on New Caledonia.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/10/2013 8:21:54 PM   
Canoerebel


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Capt. Harlock, you are right! How did you pick that out?

As for New Caledonia, that's a pretty decent victory for the Allies no matter what happens. I expended expendable forces (Kiwi plus one Marine regiment) and in so doing have tied up two IJA divisions and a host of good capital ships. That's worthwile since New Caledonia is a backwater of no particular importance. It would be effective to do the same thing several more times.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 9/10/2013 8:22:07 PM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/11/2013 12:07:27 AM   
princep01

 

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And tomorrow, the Allied torpedos magically get better as the former head of the Bureau of Naval Ordinance rolled slowly and majestically bouncing down the steps of the Capital building (figuratively, of course).  Your subs should start scoring a bit better.  IJN shipping will step a bit more gingerly as they crawl along the surface of the Pacific.

Let us know if you notice an increase in effectiveness.  As an Allied player, mired in October of 42, I weep occasionally as yet another dud smacks against the side of a IJN ship.  My most recent frustration being that torpedos hit, but did not explode, against the side of CV Shokaku as it entered Truk Atoll.  He screamed like a girl while I cried out for divine intervention in my deep frustration.  I can only image what the Captain of USS Pollack had to say.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/11/2013 12:12:27 AM   
Canoerebel


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Speaking of USS Pollack, Bullwinkle said in his AAR that was his least favorite name. I know that's a racial epithet, but I wondered if there was something deeper or more personal to the Moose. I thought his comment interesting.

American subs in my game have been scoring an epidemic number of duds, which tells me they are fairly well placed. Mainly, though, I think it makes the Malacca Straits much more dangerous to Yamato and friends. Eventually the Allies are going to score some hits against some big targets.

P.S. I see from the title of John's most recent AAR post that something has begun. I'm assuming that I know what it is, but perhaps he's crossed me up. I'll find out later tonight.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/11/2013 1:05:45 AM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Speaking of USS Pollack, Bullwinkle said in his AAR that was his least favorite name. I know that's a racial epithet, but I wondered if there was something deeper or more personal to the Moose. I thought his comment interesting.

American subs in my game have been scoring an epidemic number of duds, which tells me they are fairly well placed. Mainly, though, I think it makes the Malacca Straits much more dangerous to Yamato and friends. Eventually the Allies are going to score some hits against some big targets.

P.S. I see from the title of John's most recent AAR post that something has begun. I'm assuming that I know what it is, but perhaps he's crossed me up. I'll find out later tonight.


In various spellings it IS a derogatory term. But besides that it just sounds like a big, fat, doughy, rotting-in-the sun fish somebody left behind on the dock. Not a sleek killer of the deep.

"Steel boats! Iron Men!"



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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/11/2013 5:14:12 AM   
JocMeister

 

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Sorry for being ignorant but what does Pollack mean? I thought it was a fish but I take it there is another meaning for it?

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/11/2013 5:33:34 AM   
Canoerebel


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If my memory is correct regarding spelling, the word is similar in spelling to a racial slur. I don't know the origin - it's probably way back, but it was made well known in a 1970s television sitcom called "All in the Family."

Here's hoping we don't discuss it any further. :)

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/11/2013 5:38:35 AM   
JocMeister

 

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Racial slur against Polish people? Or is it complete unrelated to Poland?

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/11/2013 1:08:46 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Racial slur against Polish people? Or is it complete unrelated to Poland?


Yes, it's a slur on Polish people. In the US, immigrants. We have had dozens of "helpful" names for various immigrant groups in our history with new ones being created daily. We are a nation of immigrants like no other in the world or history. Sociologically it's interesting to see how formerly oppressed groups, after a generation or two, merrily joined in the creation of pressure on later-comers. Look at US newspapers from the 1840s for example. The Irish were . . . low. By 1900 they were running a lot of urban police forces and not a few city halls. And busting Eastern European immigrants in that wave.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/11/2013 1:16:51 PM   
Canoerebel


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Yeah, although I don't think the term is limited to America. I think it has been widely used againt Polish folks. Like everybody else here, I detest the term (which I why I'm hoping we can drop it an move on). For me personally, though, I detest it because when I think of Poland, I think of the Polish troops that served at Normandy and Market Garden, the people of the Warsaw uprising, the wife of my best friend (he married a girl he met in Gdansk), and the kind people my wife and youngest son met in Poland this summer.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/11/2013 1:31:39 PM   
JocMeister

 

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We call them "Polack". But there is absolutely nothing derogatory in the name. It just means "person from Poland". I´ll make sure not to say that when I´m in the states obviously

Having encountered lots of Polish people in my work (and actually having a half polish girl for apprentice) they are generally happy and outspoken people that tend to drink even more than us Swedes.

Just never put them in the same room as a russian...


< Message edited by JocMeister -- 9/11/2013 1:35:10 PM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/11/2013 2:00:27 PM   
viberpol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister
We call them "Polack". But there is absolutely nothing derogatory in the name. It just means "person from Poland". I´ll make sure not to say that when I´m in the states obviously


Well... it actually always depends on who uses it, how uses it and in what situation.
It's the English loanword and loanword only ("Polack") which is taken as derogatory and/or offensive.

Funny thing is that we use the same word in our language (I am a Pole/Jestem Polakiem) spoken the same /ˈpoʊlɑːk/ but written as: Polak (a person from Poland) and it's perfectly ok.
[Rather derogatory in my native language and abroad, especially if used by the Germans, is: "Polaczek"].
So... if you learn Polish language and trying to use a word that sounds similar to our language, you can use "Polak" freely...
However, the English-Polish dictionaries suggest using rather pc word: Pole

[EDIT]Would you dare to call the Pope John Paul II a Pol(l)ack?

< Message edited by viberpol -- 9/11/2013 2:26:08 PM >


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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/11/2013 2:45:31 PM   
Canoerebel


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1/1/43

At Last: John finally sends the massed fighter sweeps over Sabang. Roughly seven groups ranging from 30 to 42 aircraft tangle with the Allied fighters, which are mainly P-40K, P-40E, and F4F, with some P-38G, P-38E and Beaufighters thrown into the mix. Pretty rough day - 1:1 losses (each side around 100 fighters). The Allies lose 21 pilots KIA and 38 WIA, but a surprisingly large number of fighters are out of commission due to damage. It's going to be ugly tomorrow in all probability. I'm not committing my carrier fighters yet, but that's no more than a couple of days away. On the good side, pilot morale and fatigue are excellent.

Pools: I have nothing to work with at all. Bear in mind that the Allies, to date, have done well in the air war (meaning the Japanese have suffered 50% higher losses, so it's not like the Allies have frittered away fighters unproductively). Also, we haven't had air combat involving fighters in nearly two months, so the pools have had plenty of time to build if they were going to. But I don't have anything anywhere. The Brits are dry. I have 20 P-40K and 20 F4F in the pools. I don't have any P-39. I have six P-38G. And that's it - zero P-40E, zero P-38F, zero P-38E.

On map (at Sabang), I have one squadron of P-38G with 25 aircraft (and, as noted, six in the pools). I have one P-38E squadron there - six aircraft with zero in the pools. I have a handful of P-38E and P-38F squadrons at Seattle and San Fran, but these are permanently restricted. I can't swap out their planes for a lower model (to flush their Lightnings into the pools) because I don't have any aircraft to change them to. Neither can I disband or withdraw - these options result in "planes and pilots lost."

The Allies have done well in the air war; the air war hasn't been particularly intense; but there's nothing to fight with. Something seems wrong. I don't know if it's peculiar to the mod or if something is out of whack or if I've overlooked something fundamental. But if I'm right, I don't think even a Japanese player would enjoy a contest this uneven.

I'm afraid what's going to happen is that the Allies feed in the carrier fighters in a couple of days, and then that's it.

Carriers: No sign of the KB, which I think means it's moved SW out of range of my patrols. Allied carriers are trying to "stay in the shades" within range of Sabang.

Elsewhere: Nothing else matters at the moment, though stuff is going on elsewhere.

(in reply to viberpol)
Post #: 3510
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