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RE: May 1945 - 3/1/2018 9:05:21 PM   
Canoerebel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
Being unfamiliar with the RA mod of this game, what sorts of benefits were imparted to Allied OOB, if any?


I don't recall any additional military ships except that some AOs could be converted to CVEs. I didn't convert any (I think).

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RE: May 1945 - 3/1/2018 9:08:35 PM   
Canoerebel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Allied CA losses.


Because of your H/K CL/DD groups deployment (per your previous post), were your CL losses as marked as were your DD losses?


I lost 27 CLs, of these nationalities:
NZ: 1
Dutch: 4
Australian: 2
RN: 10
USN: 10

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RE: May 1945 - 3/1/2018 10:42:47 PM   
DOCUP


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John 3rd: Great game and AAR Thanks for it all.

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RE: May 1945 - 3/1/2018 11:00:26 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
Being unfamiliar with the RA mod of this game, what sorts of benefits were imparted to Allied OOB, if any?


I don't recall any additional military ships except that some AOs could be converted to CVEs. I didn't convert any (I think).



Increased fighters? Anything unusual about the land forces available? I simply don't know.

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RE: May 1945 - 3/1/2018 11:06:15 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Allied CA losses.


Because of your H/K CL/DD groups deployment (per your previous post), were your CL losses as marked as were your DD losses?


I lost 27 CLs, of these nationalities:
NZ: 1
Dutch: 4
Australian: 2
RN: 10
USN: 10



IRL, the US lost 7 CAs and 3 CLs. Were the heavier CL losses also mostly related to the Sumatra campaign?


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RE: May 1945 - 3/2/2018 11:59:08 AM   
Canoerebel


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I think CL losses were spread out throughout the war.

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Post #: 6306
RE: May 1945 - 3/2/2018 12:01:42 PM   
Chickenboy


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John,

Can you summarize the OOB benefits to the Allied OOB with your mod for us? This game started many moons ago and I don't recall.

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RE: May 1945 - 3/2/2018 12:02:24 PM   
Canoerebel


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I don't know much about changes to Allied air and ground OOB. John might know.

My memory is that the Allies did get a few more fighter squadrons (Hurricanes?) and a couple of Banshee dive bomber squadrons. (The Banshees didn't have an upgrade path and thus ended the war as Banshees posted in Oz.)

I think there may have been a few additional ground units (base forces?) posted somewhere like Darwin or aboard ships near Darwin. Nothing major but a few things to work with.

But I'm fuzzy on these things now and was then.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
Being unfamiliar with the RA mod of this game, what sorts of benefits were imparted to Allied OOB, if any?


I don't recall any additional military ships except that some AOs could be converted to CVEs. I didn't convert any (I think).



Increased fighters? Anything unusual about the land forces available? I simply don't know.


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Post #: 6308
RE: May 1945 - 3/2/2018 12:23:13 PM   
ny59giants


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quote:

John,

Can you summarize the OOB benefits to the Allied OOB with your mod for us? This game started many moons ago and I don't recall.


I cannot speak for John, but this version of RA has gone through multiple revisions since this game started. I've probably been the major contributor to changes for the Allied OOB. Most of the changes for the Allies have gone into BTS and BTSL mods. Don't recall what we did for RA. Sorry.

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Post #: 6309
RE: May 1945 - 3/2/2018 12:38:55 PM   
Chickenboy


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From Page 1 of this AAR:

The Allies see continued major changes in their starting locations, new air units, several ground units, a CLAA conversion for the Omaha-CL, a pair of additional CVLs, and options for nearly 10 CVEs. The added warships reflect a ‘stopgap’ counter to the increased Japanese strength found at war’s start.


From Page 3:

Allies
1. CV Lexington is NE of Pago Pago and has a reinforced screen with CA Minneapolis and a few more DDs.
2. Allied Reinforcement TFs sit at Pago Pago and Townsville unloading and/or preparing to more. Each TF has a Cruiser--DD Escort protecting it.
3. The Pensacola Convoy starts at Darwin and is unloaded. It carries three full Squadrons of A-24 and a P-40E Squadron. The pilots are terrible but those A-24s are DANGEROUS! The Base Forces and Artillery units in the TF are unloaded with the Planes at start. Pensacola and her escorts adds a bit more to the Allied position as well.
4. The Philippines begin the war slightly more prepared (but not much).
5. A squadron of Hurricanes start at Singapore.
6. Several CD and small Base Forces are added to Pt Blair, Cocos, Pt. Moresby, and other places.



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RE: Islands of Destiny: RA 5.0 Japanese Side - 3/2/2018 12:40:20 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: SuluSea

Good luck John!






Oh no!

John, will your torpedo-equipped A6M aircraft all launch their torpedoes at a 15 degree angle off of true?

Will they drop torpedoes whilest overflying your BBs?

Shouldn't you want them to attack in closer proximity to the enemy?

Will your airgroups have such poor formation management that they appear to prepare set to slam into the forecastle of your BBs?

Will your aircraft stand much chance of making it to the enemy whilest belching smoke from 'friendly fire' battle damage?

I'll be keeping watch for these and other scintillating questions.



From page 1. Just so you can see I tried early and often to talk sense into John to not believe the propaganda.

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Post #: 6311
RE: Islands of Destiny: RA 5.0 Japanese Side - 3/2/2018 12:48:30 PM   
HansBolter


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I think its a mistake to make comparisons between the war and the game with regard to losses incurred as the game allows for a much greater pace of operations than was the case historically.

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Hans


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Post #: 6312
RE: Islands of Destiny: RA 5.0 Japanese Side - 3/2/2018 12:48:45 PM   
Chickenboy


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This was from page 5 or thereabouts:

Hey Sir!

You are correct. Japan starts off with—essentially—no additional CVs. They do get an additional CVL (18 F and 12 TB) and nothing else. Only other additional (non-historic to the OOB) ships the Fleet gets at start are 2 CL and 4 DD. NOTHING ELSE!

The biggest changes you see are deployment changes. KB (6CV) normal but Mini-KB starts at Babeldoap with all three CVLs together.

Does that help?
John


Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: 12-13

John,

I began the game "blind" as to what extra goodies Japan gets in the game. I did that on purpose to avoid some of the "godlike foreknowledge" we get as we start a new game. Now that I've gotten repeated sightings on your carriers, I've decided to open the game to see what carriers you get at or near the start of the war. So I opened the game on the Japanese side and didn't find anything other than the usual lineup. Is that right? Or do you indeed get additional carriers? If so, where are they hiding? I'll look it up (or you can just email the list if it isn't long and too much trouble).

I'm essentially finished with the turn, but I do want to review Japan's carrier lineup before I send it to you.

Thanks,

Dan


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Post #: 6313
RE: Islands of Destiny: RA 5.0 Japanese Side - 3/2/2018 12:52:04 PM   
Canoerebel


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I don't remember what additional forces Japan began the game with, nor what air or ground changes there were later in the game. I was familiar with the beefed up IJN OOB, especially carriers, CB and CA.

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Post #: 6314
RE: Islands of Destiny: RA 5.0 Japanese Side - 3/2/2018 1:26:45 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I don't remember what additional forces Japan began the game with, nor what air or ground changes there were later in the game. I was familiar with the beefed up IJN OOB, especially carriers, CB and CA.


Without parsing through the AAR's 210+ pages, the initial OOB didn't sound like it had much more in terms of Japanese CVs. Those must have been accelerated in 1942-1943. What is your impression about the availability of Japanese CB and CAs? Available at the initiation of hostilities or 'accelerated' later?

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Post #: 6315
RE: Islands of Destiny: RA 5.0 Japanese Side - 3/2/2018 1:32:44 PM   
Canoerebel


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I don't think much of the naval OOB was available at start. The additional CVs, CB, CA came in later. I don't know about DDs - how many and how early they were available, but I think there were additional hulls.

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Post #: 6316
RE: Islands of Destiny: RA 5.0 Japanese Side - 3/2/2018 8:04:24 PM   
Canoerebel


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The following is taken from John's second post in this AAR. It gives both Allied and Japanese additions to the OOB.

In so choosing to do this Yamamoto then changes the 4th Circle Building plan replacing the 3rd and 4th Yamato-Class Battleships with three improved Shokaku-Class CVs and a pair of Kawachi-Class fast Battlecruisers, two Tone-Class CAs, an accelerated Agano-Class deployment, and additional destroyers. Quick, reasonably cheap carrier conversions are moved forward seeing all of the pre-war CVs/CVLs deploy by December 7th or at slightly earlier dates in 1942.

The Japan Naval Air Arm is changed so that everything is staked to the Zero Airframe with a specialization of the Zero into a Land-Based Interceptor as well as CV-Based Fighters. Research and production expansion is achieved by streamlining the air industry (cutting several models) while bringing forward second generation aircraft: Judy, Jill, etc… By great effort the IJNAF deploys nearly all new aircraft on December 7th.

RA 5.0 now brings his ‘vision’ to the IJN’s Land Component. He reorganizes the SNLF units into a Brigade-Sized offensive force and—knowing it will be a war of attrition—converts many Naval Guard into enhanced units with Coastal Defense artillery for a stronger defensive unit. Additional small units are added to the IJN’s Troops and support units better reflecting Yamamoto's foresight into base building, defense, and expansion needs.

The foresight of the Admiral paysoff during 1942 and early-1943 as new ships, aircraft, and ground units enter into the Japanese Order-of-Battle, however, the cost is steep. Though expanded and using modern aircraft many Japanese Naval Air units start with their experience lowered to reflect the dilution of the experienced pilots into new units. Supply and fuel reserves start at a much reduced state. The Japanese MUST take the DEI as fast as possible.

In a major change over the previous versions of Reluctant Admiral, the 3.0 postulates more of Yamamoto’s influence upon the wartime Kaigun. First class destroyers are accelerated and emphasis is shifted to the AA Akizuki-Class at the expense of the more balanced Yugumo’s. Manpower is at a premium within the Fleet so Submarines, Escorts, and ASW forces all see a major retooling reflecting the Japanese quality over quantity belief. Yamamoto chooses the immediately useful projects, including 2nd-class destroyers, fast transports and coastal defense fleet, at the expense of large destroyers and subs offered by the stock, historical choice.

It should be noted that not all the changes are for the Japanese. The Allies see continued major changes in their starting locations, new air units, several ground units, a CLAA conversion for the Omaha-CL, a pair of additional CVLs, and options for nearly 10 CVEs. The added warships reflect a ‘stopgap’ counter to the increased Japanese strength found at war’s start.

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Post #: 6317
RE: Islands of Destiny: RA 5.0 Japanese Side - 3/2/2018 9:20:57 PM   
Chickenboy


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NYGiants,

Can you speak to the diminished supply and fuel levels cited for the IJ player versus stock? Pilot quality? Number of larger DDs / Submarines unbuilt per Yamamoto's vision? If not for RA 5.0, then for current iterations?

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RE: Islands of Destiny: RA 5.0 Japanese Side - 3/3/2018 4:08:33 AM   
Capt. Harlock


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quote:

The Japan Naval Air Arm is changed so that everything is staked to the Zero Airframe with a specialization of the Zero into a Land-Based Interceptor as well as CV-Based Fighters. Research and production expansion is achieved by streamlining the air industry (cutting several models) while bringing forward second generation aircraft: Judy, Jill, etc… By great effort the IJNAF deploys nearly all new aircraft on December 7th.

RA 5.0 now brings his ‘vision’ to the IJN’s Land Component. He reorganizes the SNLF units into a Brigade-Sized offensive force and—knowing it will be a war of attrition—converts many Naval Guard into enhanced units with Coastal Defense artillery for a stronger defensive unit. Additional small units are added to the IJN’s Troops and support units better reflecting Yamamoto's foresight into base building, defense, and expansion needs.

The foresight of the Admiral paysoff during 1942 and early-1943 as new ships, aircraft, and ground units enter into the Japanese Order-of-Battle, however, the cost is steep. Though expanded and using modern aircraft many Japanese Naval Air units start with their experience lowered to reflect the dilution of the experienced pilots into new units.


For whatever my opinion is worth, the additional airpower is the biggest benefit to the Japanese in this mod. The Sumatra Campaign was decided because the Japanese were actually able to win an air war of attrition. U.S. industry had not yet surpassed Japanese airframe production.

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Post #: 6319
RE: Islands of Destiny: RA 5.0 Japanese Side - 3/3/2018 4:20:41 AM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock

quote:

The Japan Naval Air Arm is changed so that everything is staked to the Zero Airframe with a specialization of the Zero into a Land-Based Interceptor as well as CV-Based Fighters. Research and production expansion is achieved by streamlining the air industry (cutting several models) while bringing forward second generation aircraft: Judy, Jill, etc… By great effort the IJNAF deploys nearly all new aircraft on December 7th.

RA 5.0 now brings his ‘vision’ to the IJN’s Land Component. He reorganizes the SNLF units into a Brigade-Sized offensive force and—knowing it will be a war of attrition—converts many Naval Guard into enhanced units with Coastal Defense artillery for a stronger defensive unit. Additional small units are added to the IJN’s Troops and support units better reflecting Yamamoto's foresight into base building, defense, and expansion needs.

The foresight of the Admiral paysoff during 1942 and early-1943 as new ships, aircraft, and ground units enter into the Japanese Order-of-Battle, however, the cost is steep. Though expanded and using modern aircraft many Japanese Naval Air units start with their experience lowered to reflect the dilution of the experienced pilots into new units.


For whatever my opinion is worth, the additional airpower is the biggest benefit to the Japanese in this mod. The Sumatra Campaign was decided because the Japanese were actually able to win an air war of attrition. U.S. industry had not yet surpassed Japanese airframe production.


Even in stock, that's not going to happen until late 1943-1944, right?

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Post #: 6320
RE: Islands of Destiny: RA 5.0 Japanese Side - 3/5/2018 4:49:50 PM   
anarchyintheuk

 

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IMO the Sumatra campaign was decided by IJN bombardment tfs. Once the allied screen sctfs for the base were gone, it was over.

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RE: May 1945 - 3/6/2018 1:26:15 AM   
cardas

 

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Thank you to both John and Canoerebel for keeping two interesting AAR:s going!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
I think there may have been a few additional ground units (base forces?) posted somewhere like Darwin or aboard ships near Darwin. Nothing major but a few things to work with.

No clue as to the specifics however I believe some of the Chinese LCUs were supposed to have higher starting experience as well while some of the Japanese air units would start with less experience.

Overall when it comes to the OOB one should remember that Reluctant Admiral is based on DBB and not stock so there shouldn't be, as an example, any Japanese so-called "super E" weapon loadout problems despite how long ago it was that the game started.

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Post #: 6322
RE: May 1945 - 3/6/2018 5:30:09 PM   
Canoerebel


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Following Japan's capitulation, the two nations developed close economic, social and cultural ties. Japan and American celebrated their rapprochement in 2015, when a Japanese school orchestra performed Glen Miller's hits from the war years: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0xRQb_K1hE

John III was terribly moved by all accounts, but continued regular visits to saunas, where he insisted on baring his pasty-white thighs while bleating melancholy dirges of utter defeat and despair.

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Post #: 6323
RE: May 1945 - 3/6/2018 8:33:15 PM   
AcePylut


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Excellent match, great reading, kudo's to both of you.

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Post #: 6324
RE: May 1945 - 3/6/2018 10:19:07 PM   
Bif1961


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If you were forced to listen you have to ask yourself did you really win?

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Post #: 6325
RE: May 1945 - 3/7/2018 1:57:25 PM   
John 3rd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

John,

Can you summarize the OOB benefits to the Allied OOB with your mod for us? This game started many moons ago and I don't recall.

I can later today.


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Post #: 6326
RE: May 1945 - 3/7/2018 2:59:18 PM   
John 3rd


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Will go thru my old notes. This version of RA is so out-of-date compared to now. The OOB changes are reasonably straight-forward but some of the others require looking in the archives. Dan and I's match served as the 'test' for RA as a Mod. Once we saw how powerful the changes to air production were, we implemented the off-map Allied aircraft purchase system. It, seemingly, works pretty well for RA, BTS, and BTSL.


< Message edited by John 3rd -- 3/7/2018 3:00:42 PM >


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Post #: 6327
RE: May 1945 - 3/7/2018 3:29:23 PM   
Canoerebel


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Before going into archives, spending what might be tedious hours extracting old information that may no longer be relevant to games going forward, is there a way to gauge whether there's any real interest out there in the info? I'd be surprised if there was, although there might be 27 Forumites eagerly awaiting it.

I think we both had a pretty good feel for what was going on, though with the passage of 5.5 years, our memories aren't encyclopedic. :)

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Post #: 6328
RE: May 1945 - 3/7/2018 3:38:10 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Will go thru my old notes. This version of RA is so out-of-date compared to now. The OOB changes are reasonably straight-forward but some of the others require looking in the archives. Dan and I's match served as the 'test' for RA as a Mod. Once we saw how powerful the changes to air production were, we implemented the off-map Allied aircraft purchase system. It, seemingly, works pretty well for RA, BTS, and BTSL.



So, to clarify, for this match was CR able to 'buy' additional Allied fighter frames with PPs or no?

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Post #: 6329
RE: May 1945 - 3/7/2018 3:42:37 PM   
Canoerebel


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No.

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Post #: 6330
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