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Characters trade bonus skill - 9/17/2012 9:10:48 AM   
feelotraveller


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Does the character trade income skill require that you have a trade agreement or better to work? Or will it provide income from trade with an empire that you do not have an agreement?

Prompted to ask because I have a diplomat stationed at another empires homeworld who I do not intend to make a treaty with. Will I be getting any income from trade with them merely through my diplomats skill? But also curious to more general applications of the skill.
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RE: Characters trade bonus skill - 9/18/2012 6:27:47 PM   
Darkspire


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Id like to know thhe answer to this one, I sack them if they have a trade bonus in the black, if its red I send them off to the other empire. Would be great if I knew I was doing the right thing ...

Darkspire

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RE: Characters trade bonus skill - 9/19/2012 1:38:59 AM   
Nedrear


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*Red Hering removed*

< Message edited by Nedrear -- 9/19/2012 3:53:19 PM >


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RE: Characters trade bonus skill - 9/19/2012 3:20:21 AM   
feelotraveller


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Nedrear what is 'no trade'?  I find this confusing in your reply.

Without trade agreements my private sector can still buy from/sell to other empires.  Do I get trade bonus in this instance (no trade agreement) if I have a character with trade income bonus skill there?  That is my question.

Or to ask the question in another way-
Is the characters trade bonus skill applied to the trade between the empires or is it only applied the the state sector taxes I extract from this trade?

< Message edited by feelotraveller -- 9/19/2012 3:23:22 AM >

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RE: Characters trade bonus skill - 9/19/2012 8:19:44 AM   
Nedrear


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Free Trade Quote:

You gain income when you form Free Trade Agreements with other empires. In this situation a percentage of the entire trade volume between the two empires is earned as bonus income by each empire. Over time the bonus percentage grows until it reaches a maximum limit.

This is fixed too and builds on the same concept of private trade volume. Still I highly doubt a cumulative effect here as an increase by 20% on a 20% marker would imply a 100% bonus.
You generate trade income between empires ALWAYS and therefore it should apply directly to the general trade not the trade uplifting FTA.

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RE: Characters trade bonus skill - 9/19/2012 11:49:05 AM   
feelotraveller


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Yes Nedrear I am clear about the effects of free trade agreements and mutual defense pacts.  That is not my question.  But you are getting closer - the space port income you were talking about previously is a complete red herring.

What is not clear is when a characters trade income skill is applied.  It could be additive with the effects of a free trade agreement like scientist and research location bonuses.  Or it could be mulitplicative with FTA income.  Or maybe it needs a FTA in place to make any difference at all.  Maybe there are other limitations, like the character only providing the bonuses for trade conducted at the location they are present at.  I suspect not, I suspect that a diplomat with the skill will effect all trade with the empire that they are stationed at and a leader with the skill will effect all trade period.  But I don't know.  I was hoping that someone else might.  All the guessing the world does me no good.   

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RE: Characters trade bonus skill - 9/19/2012 4:03:14 PM   
Nedrear


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The character stat clearly states to increase the trade income, not the free trade efficiency. Of course this applies ot the whole empire trade they are stationed at. You station them on the homeworld after all. Therefore I stay with the fact that Elliot did not add any unrelated character traits into the game and trust his judgement to push the correct game part.

Lets look at both versions:

A trade bonus on the general trade and a trade bonus on a FTA

Lets say we got a empire trade volume between Bug A and Bug B of 3000K per year. Now we apply the trade bonus of 15% and get 3450K instead. That way our private taxes increase and they buy more ships.
Now Bug A and B got a FTA and the general trade is still 3000K. They got it a long time os they get the full 20% bonus. We still add the bonus on the general trade. Now we get 3450K * 1.2 = 4140K.

Now lets turn the table and only support the FTA.

Bug A and Bug B got no FTA and therefore stay with 3000K trade volume each. Nothing changes...
Now we got Bug A and Bug B with a FTA of 20% top amplified by 15% making for a 35% bonus. The result is 3000K * 1.35 = 4050K

Not only is the total amount less in a full FTA statt without it the diplomat would be useless - he would be useless anyway if trade sanctions are in place in either version.

Now if you are that desperate to know you can add an extra starting character with a certain trade bonus and create a small map test game with "friendly" nations in a close spawning range. Now you can see your trade volume before you send your premade diplomat. After you did that wait for the next trade information tick and check the result. If your trade volume increased significantly without a FTA you will know if it aplies on the trade income in general as the trait states or the FTA.

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"Nothing incorporeal wields such power as a word. Though it is the weapon of the smart and cunning it alas needs the same to prevail."

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RE: Characters trade bonus skill - 9/20/2012 2:15:42 AM   
feelotraveller


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Yes they are possibilities.  It seems that you have no idea which one the game actually uses either.  So why are you carrying on?

I was hoping that someone might have already conducted such tests, or followed through with a close observation in an actual game, and might know (or at least have evidence to support) the workings of this bonus.  It's is fine if nobody does and it certainly doesn't hurt to ask.

Barring a helpful response I do intend to test this, and have even given some thought to the design of the intial experiment.  The design you suggest is full of holes.  If things are somewhat complex and/or surprising it may be the case that a series of differently setup tests will be needed.  However for me playing takes a precedence over testing, usually...

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