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Movies like "Das Boot"? - 8/21/2012 3:42:01 PM   
StK


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I just watched "Das Boot" again, which in my opinion is simply the best movie about naval warfare (nevermind it's only about subs). It's a shame that the english dubbing is in no way up to the german original though.
Are there any movies like it out there? (without the overdone heroism crap, action scenes that no one really needed except the box office, ... you get my point)

Btw when did the Americans forget how to make really A-class movies? I mean just look at it there is "the longest day", "Tora! Tora! Tora!" and the likes of the old days and then theres stuff like the movie which in this forum I'm not allowed to name (which is a good thing. It doesn't deserve a name)

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RE: Movies like "Das Boot"? - 8/21/2012 4:01:44 PM   
Canoerebel


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American's haven't forgotten how to make good historical movies. Just like in the past, good ones are made and bad ones are made. In the former category you might consider Glory, Gettysburg, Schindler's List, Letters from Iwo Jima, and Valkyrie. You can quibble with details about each of them, but by and large they are credible efforts to present history in a compelling and truthful manner.

In the latter category you can toss in a bunch of bad ones, including TMTSNBN, The Thin Red Line, and Wind Talkers.

There were many classic WWII movies from the past. Stalag 17, Mister Roberts and Bridge on the River Kwai come to mind in addition to those you refer to, but even in its Golden Era Hollywood was producing historical junk: Battle of the Bulge.

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RE: Movies like "Das Boot"? - 8/21/2012 4:13:04 PM   
LoBaron


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Stalingrad and Der Untergang come to mind, both are German productions though....

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RE: Movies like "Das Boot"? - 8/21/2012 4:15:24 PM   
gradenko2k

 

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Run Silent Run Deep is what I'd consider the American equivalent to Das Boot

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RE: Movies like "Das Boot"? - 8/21/2012 4:29:25 PM   
StK


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True those are all exceptional (even though Gettysburg and Schindler's list are nearly 20 years old now) although i would argue with Valkyrie but that just might be my personal loathing for Tom Cruise. I would also add Gods and Generals come to think of it.
I usually don't bother about details much (as long as its not totally ridiculous) its more the overall spirit in which the movie is presented. But all in all I still think good movies get rarer and rarer .. maybe because they over-saturate nearly everything with action scenes at the cost of depicting the character.
(An example: I liked Departed but when I saw the original Infernal Affairs... the original is so much more. Because they really show how and why the characters behave in the way they do.)
But the majority seems to want that (I can't count the occasions anymore in which I heard statements like "It's a brilliant movie and it has the longest and most expensive car-chase ever produced).

but back to what I actually wanted to say: Any good movies about Naval warfare during WW2 (or the pacific theater for that matter)?
I've seen: Flags of our fathers, Letters from Ivo Jima, Tora! Tora! Tora!, Bridge on the River Kwai, The Pacific (Thats no movie but still) and for naval warfare during WW2 I only saw Das Boot (I think)

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RE: Movies like "Das Boot"? - 8/21/2012 4:36:03 PM   
Canoerebel


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Movie making, at least in the United States, was at its best from the '30s through the '50s. The '60s and the '70s were an awful interlude (with notable exceptions). But, in my opinion, there have been many, many great movies made in the 90's and '00s.

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RE: Movies like "Das Boot"? - 8/21/2012 4:39:17 PM   
StK


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@LaBaron: German movies seem to be different as they shy away from depicting heroism (which I really like, after spending hours of talking to my grandfather) and rather depict all the little things that happen everywhere and how people react under the stress. Also they show brutality differently .. there doesn't have to be much blood, but some (many scenes) in Stalingrad, Das Boot and der Untergang are just heartbreaking.

@gradenko_2000: ty. I found it on Amazon.de and will have a look

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RE: Movies like "Das Boot"? - 8/21/2012 6:05:21 PM   
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'King Rat' & '12 O'clock High' were very good flicks.

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RE: Movies like "Das Boot"? - 8/21/2012 6:50:07 PM   
JocMeister

 

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Der Untergang and Stalingrad is as LoBaron says perhaps two of the best war movies ever made. Along with Das Boot that is.

If you move away from WW2 there are some very good war movies about the Vietnam war. I know little about this war besides reading "We were soldiers once" so that might be why I enjoy the movies. That movie sucked though. Come to think of it almost everything with Mel Gibson does... But Platoon, Full Metal Jacket, Hamburger Hill and Apocalypse now are excellent. Especially Apocalypse Now!

Btw, Anyone seen Galipoli? Been trying to get my hands on that but never found it. Ordered it from Amazon once but they cancelled it. Is it worth trying to find?



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RE: Movies like "Das Boot"? - 8/21/2012 6:55:50 PM   
treespider


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War Movies and no one has mentioned Saving Private Ryan?

As far as Naval movies - Operation Petticoat ranks at the top.

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RE: Movies like "Das Boot"? - 8/21/2012 7:03:50 PM   
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Das Boot's ASW scene is probably the closest a layman will ever get to experiencing the claustrophobic terror of a seemingly never ending and punishing Depth Charge attack during WWII.

That alone makes the movie worth seeing.

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RE: Movies like "Das Boot"? - 8/21/2012 7:32:27 PM   
khalfani

 

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12 o'clock High is definitely worth watching. That, Das Boot, The Longest Day, and A Bridge too Far are my favorite war films.

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RE: Movies like "Das Boot"? - 8/21/2012 7:36:50 PM   
StK


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@treespider I was originally speaking about movies about Naval warfare/the Pacific Theater, but it soon went in another direction.. (^^,).
I know all the others and have enjoyed most of them.

Private Ryan.. hmm.. I might get stoned for this, but I think its overrated. My reason for saying this is, if i think about the really good movies there are immediately scenes coming to mind that left an impression. All I remember about Pvt. Ryan are some very nice pictures even though I saw it several times.

< Message edited by StK -- 8/21/2012 7:38:55 PM >


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RE: Movies like "Das Boot"? - 8/21/2012 7:41:41 PM   
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I am currently re-watching Patton.

Red Tails is awful.

TMTSNBM is awful.

Gettysburg is my all time favorite.

The Pacific and Band of Brothers are very good in my opinion as well.

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RE: Movies like "Das Boot"? - 8/21/2012 7:47:04 PM   
Empire101


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How about 'Hell in the Pacific'?.

Not really anything to do with the Naval side, but Lee Marvin & Toshirô Mifune's performances are absolutely brilliant, the ideas, the fears, the hatreds, the conflict, & comradeship 'in extremis', are captured brilliantly in microcosm in this film.

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RE: Movies like "Das Boot"? - 8/21/2012 7:52:40 PM   
StK


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simply talking good war movies in general the one that surprised me the most was "Waterloo". An Italian/Russian co-production from 1970 and the movie is really really good.
They used some 17000 to 20000 extras and the effect that creates is insane.

edit: @Empire101 sounds very interesting. will go to my list and will be bought on the next occasion.

< Message edited by StK -- 8/21/2012 7:54:19 PM >


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RE: Movies like "Das Boot"? - 8/21/2012 7:58:59 PM   
Empire101


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quote:

ORIGINAL: StK

simply talking good war movies in general the one that surprised me the most was "Waterloo". An Italian/Russian co-production from 1970 and the movie is really really good.
They used some 17000 to 20000 extras and the effect that creates is insane.

edit: @Empire101 sounds very interesting. will go to my list and will be bought on the next occasion.


Waterloo (1970), is a great film!

I'm sure you will enjoy Hell in the Pacific, the two actors are great, and the ending is gut wrenching.

Another truly brilliant war film is 'Battle of Britain', a brilliant taste of WWII aviation combat, with loads of real Heinkels, Spitfires, Stukas, Hurricanes and Me109's.


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RE: Movies like "Das Boot"? - 8/21/2012 8:00:51 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Empire101

quote:

ORIGINAL: StK

simply talking good war movies in general the one that surprised me the most was "Waterloo". An Italian/Russian co-production from 1970 and the movie is really really good.
They used some 17000 to 20000 extras and the effect that creates is insane.

edit: @Empire101 sounds very interesting. will go to my list and will be bought on the next occasion.


Waterloo (1970), is a great film!

Another truly brilliant war film is 'Battle of Britain', a brilliant taste of WWII aviation combat, with loads of real Heinkels, Spitfires, Stukas, Hurricanes and Me109's.

warspite1

Two quality choices

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RE: Movies like "Das Boot"? - 8/21/2012 8:08:58 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Btw, Anyone seen Galipoli? Been trying to get my hands on that but never found it. Ordered it from Amazon once but they cancelled it. Is it worth trying to find?

warspite1

Galipoli is a very, very good film. Sure there is an irritant - the anti British slant that runs through the film is pathetic - but if you ignore that, it's a very good war film with a tear-jerker of an ending. The film also features a great soundtrack - Albinoni meets Jean Michel Jarre . Thoroughly recommend this film.

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RE: Movies like "Das Boot"? - 8/21/2012 8:33:20 PM   
CaptDave

 

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One of my favorites that hasn't been mentioned yet is "The Caine Mutiny" -- sort of the Pacific naval counterpart to "Twelve O'Clock High," though admittedly not quite up to the same standard.

I've always liked "Run Silent, Run Deep," but the more I learn about reality the less I like it's concessions to Hollywood's idea of a good war movie (and I am NOT a great fan of Burt Lancaster). Can't think of my other favorites right now, there are so many of them (and so many duds).

Interesting to see at least one comment that agrees with something I said just last week. My brother and I had a "military movie marathon" day, and I mentioned that most war movies seem to go on too long with the actual battle scenes. The quality of the scenes might be high, as in "Tora! Tora! Tora!", but there comes a point where yeah, we get it, there's a lot of fighting going on. The half-hour of battle scenes in that movie could be cut back to 10 minutes without losing the effect (maybe 15, to keep the Tyler and Welch drama intact). Same goes for "Master and Commander," where the battle on board the Acheron is longer than necessary. Maybe I'm just getting old, but action scenes for the sake of action scenes just don't do it for me anymore.

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RE: Movies like "Das Boot"? - 8/21/2012 9:19:03 PM   
littleike

 

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Das Boot is one if not "the best" war film i have ever seen.

A film where you forget the side for whom the soldiers are fighting and you only feel them as fellows and brothers that are at war for their country.

12 o clock high is another great film (Another B17 well done film is "Memphis belle") where you feel the homesickness not of the war but of the men who shared that experience together.

Talking of homesickness I remember also a touching scenery from "the best days of our lives" where an ex B17 pilot dismissed at the end of the war walks though an airplane graveyard looking for a job . (You can find it easily on you tube….Ah how i would have payed to take home one of these beasts to restore it bit by bit!!)

I agree totally that there is no need of mad action to have a good war film.

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RE: Movies like "Das Boot"? - 8/21/2012 9:24:17 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: littleike

Das Boot is one if not "the best" war film i have ever seen

I agree totally that there is no need of mad action to have a good war film.

warspite1

First comment +1

Second comment - for proof of that have a look at Conspiracy if you have not yet seen it. Stonkingly good piece of drama

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RE: Movies like "Das Boot"? - 8/21/2012 9:53:59 PM   
Empire101


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: littleike

Das Boot is one if not "the best" war film i have ever seen

I agree totally that there is no need of mad action to have a good war film.

warspite1

First comment +1

Second comment - for proof of that have a look at Conspiracy if you have not yet seen it. Stonkingly good piece of drama


I agree with Warspite1.

Das Boot is probably the best war film ever made ( with 'Apocalypse Now' running a very close second ).

Conspiracy is BRILLIANT!!
One of the scariest portrayals of wartime bureaucratic brutality ever made.







Attachment (1)

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RE: Movies like "Das Boot"? - 8/21/2012 10:01:44 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Empire101

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: littleike

Das Boot is one if not "the best" war film i have ever seen

I agree totally that there is no need of mad action to have a good war film.

warspite1

First comment +1

Second comment - for proof of that have a look at Conspiracy if you have not yet seen it. Stonkingly good piece of drama


I agree with Warspite1.

Das Boot is probably the best war film ever made ( with 'Apocalypse Now' running a very close second ).

Conspiracy is BRILLIANT!!
One of the scariest portrayals of wartime bureaucratic brutality ever made.



Warspite1

Kenneth Brannagh is superb (and suitably menacing) as Heydrich. But the incredible thing was when someone asked for a show of hands; how many people round the table at the Wannsee conference were qualified lawyers. It must have been around half to three quarters. The people that set the Final Solution in train were not mindless thugs, but well educated human beings..... Shocking...

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RE: Movies like "Das Boot"? - 8/21/2012 10:14:31 PM   
spence

 

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"Gods and Generals" is the reason that they'll never make a movie out of "The Last Full Measure" which was a much better book (probably because it was the author's second effort). Way too bad.

"The Lighthorsemen", "Anzacs", and "Beneath Hill 60" are all Australian WWI movies that call to mind the American Private's comment in "Gettysburg" about "these officers that ain't fit to lead a jonny detail, that ain't fit to pour pee out of a boot with the instructions written under the heel" (It would seem that Australians have a certain displeasure with the way that British commanders have employed them over the years). I really thought each of those movies, as war movies, were really good.

I don't think the Stukas were real in "Battle of Britian" but the Heinkels, Messerschmitts, Sptifires, Tante Ju and Hurricane were. The air to air stuff was the best that any studio has even done IMHO (a lot of the air to air stuff in that other classic "Twelve O'clock High" wasn't done in any studio).

Along with "Das Boot" and "Run Silent, Run Deep" I'd say "The Enemy Below" is a great "ASW Movie". The ending was a little corny (in the American movie- different and reflecting the prevailing hatred of the time in the British book) but that didn't spoil the tension as the two commanders tried to out-think one another.

It's really great when any movie reaches into and touches something inside a person. Such movies overall are rare. As a minority of movies the number of good war movies is even smaller. Too bad most of Hollywood's efforts aim merely to collect money.

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RE: Movies like "Das Boot"? - 8/21/2012 10:14:36 PM   
spence

 

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"Gods and Generals" is the reason that they'll never make a movie out of "The Last Full Measure" which was a much better book (probably because it was the author's second effort). Way too bad.

"The Lighthorsemen", "Anzacs", and "Beneath Hill 60" are all Australian WWI movies that call to mind the American Private's comment in "Gettysburg" about "these officers that ain't fit to lead a jonny detail, that ain't fit to pour pee out of a boot with the instructions written under the heel" (It would seem that Australians have a certain displeasure with the way that British commanders have employed them over the years). I really thought each of those movies, as war movies, were really good.

I don't think the Stukas were real in "Battle of Britian" but the Heinkels, Messerschmitts, Sptifires, Tante Ju and Hurricane were. The air to air stuff was the best that any studio has even done IMHO (a lot of the air to air stuff in that other classic "Twelve O'clock High" wasn't done in any studio).

Along with "Das Boot" and "Run Silent, Run Deep" I'd say "The Enemy Below" is a great "ASW Movie". The ending was a little corny (in the American movie- different and reflecting the prevailing hatred of the time in the British book) but that didn't spoil the tension as the two commanders tried to out-think one another.

It's really great when any movie reaches into and touches something inside a person. Such movies overall are rare. As a minority of movies the number of good war movies is even smaller. Too bad most of Hollywood's efforts aim merely to collect money.

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RE: Movies like "Das Boot"? - 8/21/2012 10:30:37 PM   
StK


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@spence I don't know the book but from experience all I can say is good books don't make good movies. Some books can't be made into an adequate film, but most books simply aren't made into good movies because someone screws up.

All I can say is I think Gods and Generals made a terrific movie.
"Battle for Britain" is actually a movie I wanted to buy a long time ago but somehow I never did.. My next order will include it.

< Message edited by StK -- 8/21/2012 10:31:32 PM >


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RE: Movies like "Das Boot"? - 8/21/2012 10:52:48 PM   
spence

 

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I read somewhere that at the time of the making of "Battle of Britian" the studio could only find 6 "flyable" Spitfires (perhaps of the appropriate Mark-I'm not enough of an a/c afficionado to recognize which ones they were using). But during the filming it sure looks like they crashed one/one really crashed (in the final battle sequence).

As for "Gods and Generals" I eagerly anticipated it coming out. When I watched it all I can say is that I eagerly anticipated it coming to a (merciful) end.

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RE: Movies like "Das Boot"? - 8/21/2012 10:54:01 PM   
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Gods and Generals was terrible. Honestly. Just terrible.

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RE: Movies like "Das Boot"? - 8/21/2012 11:09:56 PM   
StK


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@Canoerebel:
Would you tell me why you say so?
I don't really know much about the realities of the American Civil war (which is a big oversight of mine because I'm supposed to be a history teacher. In my defense I do know may way around the theoretical aspects of it). As was mentioned in my other thread everybody is ignorant in some topic, but I would really like to know more.

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