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OT - ASW interviews with Japanese officers - 7/12/2012 2:44:23 PM   
pharmy

 

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http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AAF/USSBS/IJO/IJO-63.html
http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AAF/USSBS/IJO/IJO-74.html -commander of 901 flotilla I think in the game this the 51st air flotilla
http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AAF/USSBS/IJO/IJO-47.html from 2nd commander 901 flotilla
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RE: OT - ASW interviews with Japanese officers - 7/12/2012 3:07:39 PM   
Shellshock


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quote:

Q. Did pilots object to anti-submarine duty?
A. The pilots objected and much preferred active combat.


That snippet of Q & A speaks volumes to aerial Japanese ASW difficulties.

(in reply to pharmy)
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RE: OT - ASW interviews with Japanese officers - 7/12/2012 4:53:40 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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they started way too late in the game



< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 7/12/2012 4:54:29 PM >

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RE: OT - ASW interviews with Japanese officers - 7/12/2012 5:54:09 PM   
pharmy

 

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And by that time a/c became the bigger threat :)

Q. Which caused the most shipping losses in Western NEW GUINEA at that time -- submarines or aircraft?
A. If you take the total, submarines. In my whole area, up until May of 1944, the losses to submarines and aircraft were about equal; after May 1944, the air losses increased in proportion.

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AAF/USSBS/IJO/IJO-49.html

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AAF/USSBS/IJO/index.html
lots of interviews here on all topics by US intelligence after/during war

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effect of MAD wasnt bad though- 11 subs - 7/12/2012 5:58:06 PM   
pharmy

 

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http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AAF/USSBS/IJO/IJO-48.html
Not bad for having only 1/3 of the 560 dedicated a/c being installed with it
Edit : not bad at all considering the resources used http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AAF/USSBS/IJO/IJO-56.html


< Message edited by icepharmy -- 7/12/2012 6:00:11 PM >

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RE: effect of MAD wasnt bad though- 11 subs - 7/12/2012 6:50:23 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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They keep talking about MAD; or what to do when a plane without MAD made the contact.... this is interesting because in game terms MAD is supposedly not giving a very high ASW bonus

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RE: effect of MAD wasnt bad though- 11 subs - 7/12/2012 7:07:36 PM   
pharmy

 

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and having read most of the interviews - it seems that to US intelligence officers they were not inflating numbers (strange how they did that with their own officers). The AA gunner claims that in Ambon they shot down maybe 5 planes with AA during his long tenure there for example, and the IJN commander of the 901st is surprisingly modest and probably undervalues the number of sinkings, while dismissing his own pilots ridiculous numbers :


Q. At what time during the war do you consider that aircraft were most successful against submarines?
A. Defensively speaking, it was during May 1944, at which time we convoyed ships from the EMPIRE to SAIPAN, with the loss of only one ship. Speaking from offensive standpoint, the most successful period of operation was the fall of 1944 when we were shipping very heavily between FORMOSA and the PHILIPPINES to supply the Army based there. I estimate that the Americans had over 10 submarines operating in that region and I think the flying boats were able to sink four or five of them. I lay much credit to the fact that we equipped the aircraft with MAD. No ships were lost to submarines at that time.

Q. Make an estimate of the total number of submarines sunk by Japanese aircraft during the entire war?
A. The 901st Air Flotilla estimated that they sunk about 20 during the entire war. I've no accurate information on the total number of sinkings, although they reported at one time to have sunk as high as 500. This exaggeration is caused by the fact that pilot reports are inaccurate since they are not required to furnish proof.

Edit : sorry six planes
Q. How successful were your AA in shooting down our planes at AMBON?
A. Those of which I have sure knowledge on raids were: crashing on land -- two P-38's, crew killed; two B-25s, crew killed. On the water, one B-25, crew saved by PBY from rubber boat; one P-38, crew saved.

Q. How many heavy AA guns did you have at AMBON?
A. 28 heavy AA guns at AMBON; 14x12cm. high angle guns and 14x8cm. high angle guns.

< Message edited by icepharmy -- 7/12/2012 7:09:32 PM >

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RE: effect of MAD wasnt bad though- 11 subs - 7/13/2012 12:44:11 AM   
spence

 

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There is a movie which specifically concerns the fate of the crews of Allied aircrew shot down on Ambon. While it is an Australian film rather than US it certainly conveys a sense both of why the Japanese might be lying in their BSSS interviews and the U.S. reasoning behind promoting the "revised" accounts.

The name of the movie is "Prisoners of the Sun". Who did what and what resulted because of their actions is not a simple matter. In point of fact the IJN officers interviewed may have had quite a few reasons for lying. Separating their lies from what else they may have said at the time is not an easy task.

The IJ Player starts with a deficit of shipping to move the amount of supply required by his combat units once his war starts against everyone else (Turn 1). After that his deficit gets worse.



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RE: effect of MAD wasnt bad though- 11 subs - 7/13/2012 12:53:52 AM   
JeffroK


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Spence is right about the movie.

The low numbers of aircraft shot down could accurately represent the USAAF losses, but ignore any RAAF (incl 18 NEI Sqn) losses.

Not one RAAF aircrew survived being shot down over the DEI.

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RE: effect of MAD wasnt bad though- 11 subs - 7/13/2012 1:54:01 AM   
JohnDillworth


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Nice find, thanks. Was the MAD really that effective? I think it is still used today but I assume the electronics are a lot more sophisticated. I am surprised that they tracked subs for 3 days after contact. It looks like the limitation was in the aircraft weapons. They could track the subs, but not kill the subs

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RE: effect of MAD wasnt bad though- 11 subs - 7/13/2012 5:48:42 AM   
msieving1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: icepharmy

and having read most of the interviews - it seems that to US intelligence officers they were not inflating numbers (strange how they did that with their own officers). The AA gunner claims that in Ambon they shot down maybe 5 planes with AA during his long tenure there for example, and the IJN commander of the 901st is surprisingly modest and probably undervalues the number of sinkings, while dismissing his own pilots ridiculous numbers :



Q. Make an estimate of the total number of submarines sunk by Japanese aircraft during the entire war?
A. The 901st Air Flotilla estimated that they sunk about 20 during the entire war. I've no accurate information on the total number of sinkings, although they reported at one time to have sunk as high as 500. This exaggeration is caused by the fact that pilot reports are inaccurate since they are not required to furnish proof.



Considering that the US lost 10 submarines to air attack during the war (six of those to combined air and surface forces), he certainly doesn't underestimate sinkings. His estimate is not as completely delusional as the 500 claimed, but it's still well exaggerated.

(One British and one Dutch submarine were also sunk by Japanese aircraft - the Dutch sub while in port at Soerabaja - but those don't add much to the score.)

< Message edited by msieving1 -- 7/13/2012 6:02:34 AM >

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