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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

 
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 8/17/2018 12:56:30 PM   
PaxMondo


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Joined: 6/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Dec 27, 1944


... I never anticipated this fast a demise, but he's put a lot of force behind the Allied army with bombardments by sea and air...


But this is of course the key about initiative: the ability to focus on offense whereas on defense the tendency is to disperse too many of your forces.


I am always reminded of the remarkable defense that PzB put up, and still astounded with his ability to react so effectively. As much as I have analyzed his game, I still cannot quite see how he managed it.


Still, you are playing very well, using all the tricks one can, against a very capable player. Watching with interest to see if you can shift enough force to Hokkaido to dislodge him.



_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2281
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 8/17/2018 1:26:57 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
Watching with interest to see if you can shift enough force to Hokkaido to dislodge him.



I think that ship has sailed....but Japan can bleed him, and then bleed him some more and when not bleeding him, buy time. Easy to say!

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 2282
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 8/17/2018 1:48:04 PM   
Wuffer

 

Posts: 371
Joined: 6/16/2011
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'Valar morghulis', in GJ's immortal sense: That was exspected.
If not for the stupid points, you should be glad getting rich of these huge fuel suckers. Seriously. At least it encourages him to continue in this sector of approach. And they have served you allready exceptional well (show me a another great performance of Axis' surface forces at the brink of '44/45?).

So, this 'Wakkidakki' base will fall. All its inhibitants are allready as dead as the garrisons on the invaded islands. He's in Hokkaido in force and will stay. That's life.

Only a suggestion, but instead of paralysis analysis (or some 'banzai'-yelling...), a day off and a calm hollistic view will probably serve you best. The first dam has broken, where to built the next, even better 'Gustav'-line? And what to commit?

The real fighting has just begun.
Yeah, some minor defeats in the last days, but your most valuable assets are still fine or even better than ever before. :-)

I don't believe in body-count as a senseful strategy at all, but what did he has left: 4Es, fighters... and where are all his divisions?

And what did he really need....?

Maybe you should study Nemo's endgame AAR's?
Alfreds ideas of a counter somewhere should not completely forgetten, too.

@ Pax
Regarding PzB: Someone wise has suggested that Andy was faaar too predictable, perhaps some nasty auto-settings? (And he bugged out as supply become an issue...)

ah, 'in the long run we are all dead'. Lol.
----
back into radio silence...





(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 2283
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 8/17/2018 2:09:12 PM   
Wuffer

 

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Joined: 6/16/2011
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PS: I wonder how you could handle three (3) of this beats (games including AARs) at a time?
wow.

(in reply to Wuffer)
Post #: 2284
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 8/17/2018 4:32:09 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 8719
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
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It "helps" that I'm so slow in getting turns back to him in one of them

(in reply to Wuffer)
Post #: 2285
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 8/17/2018 5:17:48 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 24324
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

It "helps" that I'm so slow in getting turns back to him in one of them

It's not your fault: now that you've learned your stealth technology is useless, you have to think harder!

_____________________________


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Post #: 2286
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 8/18/2018 6:22:04 AM   
obvert


Posts: 12836
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Dec 27, 1944


... I never anticipated this fast a demise, but he's put a lot of force behind the Allied army with bombardments by sea and air...


But this is of course the key about initiative: the ability to focus on offense whereas on defense the tendency is to disperse too many of your forces.


I am always reminded of the remarkable defense that PzB put up, and still astounded with his ability to react so effectively. As much as I have analyzed his game, I still cannot quite see how he managed it.


Still, you are playing very well, using all the tricks one can, against a very capable player. Watching with interest to see if you can shift enough force to Hokkaido to dislodge him.




Thanks Pax.

The Wakkanai invasion wasn't unexpected, and my reaction was ready to go. The non-base landings really changed the situation and I should have anticipated that. My mistake there.

Still, Hokkaido has a lot of troops and some good territory, plus it's getting a lot of troops flying back in from the very nearby Kuriles. The advantage of having only a one hex path to Wakkanai could turn into a bottleneck, even without stacking limits, if I can react quickly with massive force there.

The Allied response should be to then land beyond, which I'll be aware of. I was shocked that a tank unit landed outside a base was in such good fighting condition after less than a week. This could be a game changer.

_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 2287
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 8/18/2018 8:11:23 AM   
obvert


Posts: 12836
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wuffer

'Valar morghulis', in GJ's immortal sense: That was exspected.
If not for the stupid points, you should be glad getting rich of these huge fuel suckers. Seriously. At least it encourages him to continue in this sector of approach. And they have served you allready exceptional well (show me a another great performance of Axis' surface forces at the brink of '44/45?).



Yes, the first Shikuka battle and bombardment was positive, and it did set the game on a track that is more difficult for the Allies in the end. The BBs will be missed, but they simply aren't as competitive against modern Allied gunnery.

quote:



So, this 'Wakkidakki' base will fall. All its inhibitants are allready as dead as the garrisons on the invaded islands. He's in Hokkaido in force and will stay. That's life.

Only a suggestion, but instead of paralysis analysis (or some 'banzai'-yelling...), a day off and a calm hollistic view will probably serve you best. The first dam has broken, where to built the next, even better 'Gustav'-line? And what to commit?

The real fighting has just begun.
Yeah, some minor defeats in the last days, but your most valuable assets are still fine or even better than ever before. :-)

I don't believe in body-count as a senseful strategy at all, but what did he has left: 4Es, fighters... and where are all his divisions?



I'll go through what I believe are the airframe counts as the new year turns, plus some status reports not eh Japanese economy.

quote:


And what did he really need....?

Maybe you should study Nemo's endgame AAR's?
Alfreds ideas of a counter somewhere should not completely forgetten, too.



The game itself has changed a bit due to patches and air fixes since those days. Nemo was a master, but massing Oscars for high kami runs just won't work as well as it used to do.

quote:


@ Pax
Regarding PzB: Someone wise has suggested that Andy was faaar too predictable, perhaps some nasty auto-settings? (And he bugged out as supply become an issue...)

ah, 'in the long run we are all dead'. Lol.
----
back into radio silence...



This is it. PzB did run out of supply in 44. A master tactician, but what good does it do if you suddenly can't supply troops or fuel up and arm the airplanes?

Due to the early loss at PH this game was intended as a conservative Japanese effort, not overextending, not over-building, not trying to create a decisive battle. I want to pick my spots, try to hit where I can get some positive VPs back, and protect the economy as best I can.

Thanks for the comments! Good to have a lot of these old references in, and I do withs GJ would pop back into the forum.


< Message edited by obvert -- 8/18/2018 8:12:07 AM >


_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Wuffer)
Post #: 2288
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 8/18/2018 8:13:56 AM   
obvert


Posts: 12836
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
Watching with interest to see if you can shift enough force to Hokkaido to dislodge him.



I think that ship has sailed....but Japan can bleed him, and then bleed him some more and when not bleeding him, buy time. Easy to say!


There might be a chance to still get troops to blockade the base even if it does fall. We'll see. The movement problem that lost me three days of travel for the majority of troops there will not help though.

_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 2289
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 8/18/2018 8:47:08 AM   
obvert


Posts: 12836
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: online
Dec 28, 1944


Daily landings continue at Wakkanai. It seems another Marine division has appeared. He's definitely piling on and it won't be long now I'm thinking.

The troops moving up from Asahikawa get a 3:1 against his blocking armor unit, but somehow can't move it or make it surrender. More time wasted. There is enough in place now though that it'll be vaporized tomorrow.

I stood down sweeps and I think the DS moved back as well, both sides needing to replenish and rest no doubt.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 28, 1944
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Night Air attack on TF, near Sapporo at 120,51

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 12 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-Sa Irving x 11
Ki-45 KAId Nick x 22

Allied aircraft
PBY-5 Catalina x 3

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
PBY-5 Catalina: 1 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 122,50 (near Asahikawa)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 12620 troops, 189 guns, 347 vehicles, Assault Value = 1552

Defending force 1212 troops, 4 guns, 137 vehicles, Assault Value = 30

Japanese adjusted assault: 181

Allied adjusted defense: 59

Japanese assault odds: 3 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
Vehicles lost 20 (6 destroyed, 14 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
Vehicles lost 24 (12 destroyed, 12 disabled)

Assaulting units:
4th Tank Division
4th Division
56th Div /3
19th Tank Regiment
25th Tank Regiment
27th Tank Regiment
4th Engineer Co
20th Division
85th Naval Guard Unit
68th Brigade
89th Div /3
20th RF Gun Bn /1
67th Ind. AA Battalion
14th RF Gun (Pack) Battalion
18th RF Gun Bn /1
68th Ind. AA Battalion
17th RF Gun Battalion
3rd Hvy.Artillery Regiment
141st AA Regiment
15th Base Force
3rd Ind. Mtn Gun Rgt /1
3rd Rocket Gun Bn /1
33rd Army /1

Defending units:
711th Tank Battalion

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The number of troops in the non-base hex south of Wakkanai has steadily grown. He must be finding success with getting them ashore without too much disruption.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2290
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 8/18/2018 11:38:50 AM   
Lowpe


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Joined: 2/25/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


The number of troops in the non-base hex south of Wakkanai has steadily grown. He must be finding success with getting them ashore without too much disruption.



It is so hard to see what is going on near Wakkanai? You need to replace those wimpy cloud graphics with something better...I dropbboxed you some, it is only two files (you can just unzip right into you witpae folder).



(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2291
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 8/18/2018 2:36:25 PM   
inqistor


Posts: 1577
Joined: 5/12/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

The troops moving up from Asahikawa get a 3:1 against his blocking armor unit, but somehow can't move it or make it surrender. More time wasted. There is enough in place now though that it'll be vaporized tomorrow.

There is no US Base at Hokkaido, so their every LCU is technically zombie unit, and will not retreat, as there is no supply source. That means, you will probably not pass blocking hex, because you don't have enough fire power, to destroy everything there quick enough.
You should wait, until Wakkanai falls, so blocking units could retreat losing many devices. Just make sure, they will lose several months of squads production. You can either bid for time, or destroy more things, that Allies can replace.

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2292
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 8/18/2018 3:15:15 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 24324
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: inqistor

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

The troops moving up from Asahikawa get a 3:1 against his blocking armor unit, but somehow can't move it or make it surrender. More time wasted. There is enough in place now though that it'll be vaporized tomorrow.

There is no US Base at Hokkaido, so their every LCU is technically zombie unit, and will not retreat, as there is no supply source. That means, you will probably not pass blocking hex, because you don't have enough fire power, to destroy everything there quick enough.
You should wait, until Wakkanai falls, so blocking units could retreat losing many devices. Just make sure, they will lose several months of squads production. You can either bid for time, or destroy more things, that Allies can replace.

Good point!

I would keep up 'rolling assaults' though: attack with half your stack each day so defender morale/fatigue/disruption is as bad as possible. When you have enough superiority in troops that often hastens demise.

The other thing about Wakkanai is he doesn't need to expand from there if your favorable-terrain defense proves too tough. He can use it as a close-in airfield while he invades a nearby base, flanking the defense. Has he planned for that with unit preparations?

_____________________________


(in reply to inqistor)
Post #: 2293
RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs Historiker (A) - 8/18/2018 3:23:11 PM   
Wuffer

 

Posts: 371
Joined: 6/16/2011
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found something in your AAR, what a gem! :-))
quote:



quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

How many fighters do you get from the cost of the Musashi? I´m guessing a lot?


- Musashi arrive on 1 December 1942. So 359 days of production
- Each day require 233 naval points
- Every naval point cost 3 HI points

So 359x233x3=250941 HI points to produce Musashi

Each Single engine planes cost 36 HI (18 for engine and 18 for airframe)

250941/36= 6970,58 1E planes


I've stopped BB Musashi. [smb=00000622.gif]


(in reply to SqzMyLemon)
Post #: 2294
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 8/18/2018 7:21:38 PM   
adarbrauner

 

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From: Zichron Yaaqov, Israel; Before, Treviso, Italy
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


The number of troops in the non-base hex south of Wakkanai has steadily grown. He must be finding success with getting them ashore without too much disruption.



It is so hard to see what is going on near Wakkanai? You need to replace those wimpy cloud graphics with something better...I dropbboxed you some, it is only two files (you can just unzip right into you witpae folder).






To me too please..

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 2295
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 8/19/2018 1:10:23 AM   
palioboy2

 

Posts: 135
Joined: 12/16/2009
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: inqistor

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

The troops moving up from Asahikawa get a 3:1 against his blocking armor unit, but somehow can't move it or make it surrender. More time wasted. There is enough in place now though that it'll be vaporized tomorrow.

There is no US Base at Hokkaido, so their every LCU is technically zombie unit, and will not retreat, as there is no supply source. That means, you will probably not pass blocking hex, because you don't have enough fire power, to destroy everything there quick enough.
You should wait, until Wakkanai falls, so blocking units could retreat losing many devices. Just make sure, they will lose several months of squads production. You can either bid for time, or destroy more things, that Allies can replace.

Good point!

I would keep up 'rolling assaults' though: attack with half your stack each day so defender morale/fatigue/disruption is as bad as possible. When you have enough superiority in troops that often hastens demise.

The other thing about Wakkanai is he doesn't need to expand from there if your favorable-terrain defense proves too tough. He can use it as a close-in airfield while he invades a nearby base, flanking the defense. Has he planned for that with unit preparations?


Dan seems like the type that always has troops preping for all near by possibilities.

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 2296
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 8/19/2018 4:39:11 PM   
obvert


Posts: 12836
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


The number of troops in the non-base hex south of Wakkanai has steadily grown. He must be finding success with getting them ashore without too much disruption.



It is so hard to see what is going on near Wakkanai? You need to replace those wimpy cloud graphics with something better...I dropbboxed you some, it is only two files (you can just unzip right into you witpae folder).





I'll make an easier pic. Sorry about the clouds. I usually leave them off and toggle, but I'l be happy to try the new files too.

_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 2297
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 8/19/2018 4:41:37 PM   
obvert


Posts: 12836
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: inqistor

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

The troops moving up from Asahikawa get a 3:1 against his blocking armor unit, but somehow can't move it or make it surrender. More time wasted. There is enough in place now though that it'll be vaporized tomorrow.

There is no US Base at Hokkaido, so their every LCU is technically zombie unit, and will not retreat, as there is no supply source. That means, you will probably not pass blocking hex, because you don't have enough fire power, to destroy everything there quick enough.
You should wait, until Wakkanai falls, so blocking units could retreat losing many devices. Just make sure, they will lose several months of squads production. You can either bid for time, or destroy more things, that Allies can replace.


I don't know what is there yet!! So I can't know if I'll be able to destroy it or not. The number of troops seen by recon has no bearing on whether they are battle ready or not.

It doesn't make sense to wait to attack at any rate, because he'll just move out the troops from Wakkanai, including a lot of armor, very quickly. I'll take my chances on hitting it all as soon as I'm in hex. The main issue is that he can also bombard that hex, so I'll face a lot of action once there.

_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to inqistor)
Post #: 2298
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 8/19/2018 4:45:54 PM   
obvert


Posts: 12836
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: inqistor

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

The troops moving up from Asahikawa get a 3:1 against his blocking armor unit, but somehow can't move it or make it surrender. More time wasted. There is enough in place now though that it'll be vaporized tomorrow.

There is no US Base at Hokkaido, so their every LCU is technically zombie unit, and will not retreat, as there is no supply source. That means, you will probably not pass blocking hex, because you don't have enough fire power, to destroy everything there quick enough.
You should wait, until Wakkanai falls, so blocking units could retreat losing many devices. Just make sure, they will lose several months of squads production. You can either bid for time, or destroy more things, that Allies can replace.

Good point!

I would keep up 'rolling assaults' though: attack with half your stack each day so defender morale/fatigue/disruption is as bad as possible. When you have enough superiority in troops that often hastens demise.

The other thing about Wakkanai is he doesn't need to expand from there if your favorable-terrain defense proves too tough. He can use it as a close-in airfield while he invades a nearby base, flanking the defense. Has he planned for that with unit preparations?


Wakkanai had the least amount of defensive prep on Hokkaido. All other bases are pretty tough. I'll be adding a few more units in to provide a reserve as well, and it's less possible to block reinforcements to the other bases, except Hakodate. I would be surprised, to say the least, if he's planning for that one though.

Northern Honshu bases are also tough, so I've just been thinking that the actual base of Wakkanai doesn't give him too much more than what he has at Toyohara. A few more hexes closer. The depot divisions do give me some troops now for rear area bases as well.

_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 2299
RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs Historiker (A) - 8/19/2018 4:48:04 PM   
obvert


Posts: 12836
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wuffer

found something in your AAR, what a gem! :-))
quote:



quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

How many fighters do you get from the cost of the Musashi? I´m guessing a lot?


- Musashi arrive on 1 December 1942. So 359 days of production
- Each day require 233 naval points
- Every naval point cost 3 HI points

So 359x233x3=250941 HI points to produce Musashi

Each Single engine planes cost 36 HI (18 for engine and 18 for airframe)

250941/36= 6970,58 1E planes


I've stopped BB Musashi. [smb=00000622.gif]




I remember this post! I'd forgotten the number though. Good reminder. I'll take those airframes over one BB any day!!

Although the downside is that they're also 6,970 VPs, which is quite a lot more than Musashi so I'd have to sue them wisely.

_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Wuffer)
Post #: 2300
RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs Historiker (A) - 8/19/2018 8:47:14 PM   
obvert


Posts: 12836
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: online
Dec 29, 1944


Interesting day. Very little on in the air, and the flak takes a toll on Allied bombers in the North and the South.

The IJA finally takes care of the Allied blocking armor unit after the divisions made it in three days late. Interestingly, it is destroyed rather than retreating. Not sure why as there is a clear path back. It wasn't landed in the hex by sea and ownership shows Allies controlling both borders on the hex crossing.

At any rate, the IJA trudges on, and gets a glimmer of hope, as the Allies shock and get a 1:2, but forts were lowered to 3. It looks like this is the whole army, not some little piece shocking, and maybe the multiple attacks in a short period have caught up to them. Landings still come in, wave after wave, but it does look like some of these aren't fully prepped.

So it'll be four turns before I can really see what he's got blocking. I'll have about 1,650AV to start with an additional 1,200AV moving up within a few days more. Some decent arty and armoured units, and some decent full IDs.

An interesting opportunity has presented itself in the Kuriles. Singular focus on a goal can leave rear zones less than well-protected.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 29, 1944
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Night Naval bombardment of Wakkanai at 122,48 - Coastal Guns Fire Back!

59 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
BB New Jersey, Shell hits 6
BB Iowa
CA Pensacola, Shell hits 1
CL Raleigh
DD Stevens
DD Rowe
DD Knapp
DD Kidd, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Erben
DD Eaton
DD Cogswell
DMS Hobson

Japanese ground losses:
153 casualties reported
Squads: 3 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 21 disabled

Engineers: 1 destroyed, 2 disabled

Airbase hits 3
Runway hits 4
Port hits 2

OS2U-3 Kingfisher acting as spotter for BB New Jersey

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pre-Invasion action off Wakkanai (122,48)
Defensive Guns engage approaching landing force

343 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
APD Kline
APD Knudson
APD Barr
APD Scribner
APD Greene
APD Liddle
APD Belknap
APD Goldsborough
APD King
APD Stringham
APD Colhoun
APD Ward
APD Schley
APD Chew

Allied ground losses:
150 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 26 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

APD Kline fired at enemy troops

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pre-Invasion action off Wakkanai (122,48)
Defensive Guns engage approaching landing force

406 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
LCI(G)-441
LCI(G)-440
LCI(G)-439
LCI(G)-438
LCI(M)-632
LCI(R)-225
LCI(R)-224
LCI(R)-73
APA Calvert
DD Rapid
APA McCawley

Japanese ground losses:
47 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
57 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 26 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Vehicles lost 21 (1 destroyed, 20 disabled)


LCI(G)-441 fired at enemy troops

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amphibious Assault at Wakkanai (122,48)

TF 416 troops unloading over beach at Wakkanai, 122,48

Allied ground losses:
126 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 35 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 30 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 16 (0 destroyed, 16 disabled)
Vehicles lost 11 (0 destroyed, 11 disabled)



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pre-Invasion action off Wakkanai (122,48) - Coastal Guns Fire Back!
Defensive Guns engage approaching landing force

383 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
DD Quickmatch
LCI(G)-437
LCI(G)-408
LCI(G)-405
LCI(G)-401
APA Laurens

Japanese ground losses:
13 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
132 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 10 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 21 disabled

Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

DD Quickmatch firing at Soya Fortress

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amphibious Assault at Wakkanai (122,48)

TF 624 troops unloading over beach at Wakkanai, 122,48

Allied ground losses:
117 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 31 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 26 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 34 (0 destroyed, 34 disabled)
Vehicles lost 23 (0 destroyed, 23 disabled)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 122,50 (near Asahikawa)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 38407 troops, 363 guns, 665 vehicles, Assault Value = 1645

Defending force 1116 troops, 4 guns, 128 vehicles, Assault Value = 17

Japanese adjusted assault: 1027

Allied adjusted defense: 1

Japanese assault odds: 1027 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), leaders(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
41 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Guns lost 4 (1 destroyed, 3 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
Guns lost 4 (4 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Vehicles lost 139 (139 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units destroyed 1

Assaulting units:
4th Tank Division
56th Div /3
4th Division
Det. 3rd Special Base Force /1
4th Engineer Co
27th Tank Regiment
20th Division
25th Tank Regiment
85th Naval Guard Unit
19th Tank Regiment
68th Brigade
Kyuko Naval Guard Unit
89th Div /3
17th RF Gun Battalion
3rd Ind. Mtn Gun Rgt /1
51st Air Defense AA Regiment
67th Ind. AA Battalion
3rd Hvy.Artillery Regiment
3rd Rocket Gun Bn /1
68th Ind. AA Battalion
20th RF Gun Bn /1
3rd Special Base Force /1
13th Base Force
14th RF Gun (Pack) Battalion
15th Base Force
141st AA Regiment
18th RF Gun Bn /1
1st Ind. FA Bn /1
33rd Army /1

Defending units:
711th Tank Battalion

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Wakkanai (122,48)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 73643 troops, 1111 guns, 1783 vehicles, Assault Value = 2570

Defending force 43696 troops, 442 guns, 25 vehicles, Assault Value = 933

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 3

Allied adjusted assault: 1628

Japanese adjusted defense: 2963

Allied assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 3)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), disruption(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
3162 casualties reported
Squads: 71 destroyed, 112 disabled
Non Combat: 7 destroyed, 41 disabled
Engineers: 17 destroyed, 48 disabled
Guns lost 33 (16 destroyed, 17 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
741 casualties reported
Squads: 9 destroyed, 119 disabled
Non Combat: 5 destroyed, 70 disabled
Engineers: 6 destroyed, 24 disabled
Vehicles lost 132 (9 destroyed, 123 disabled)


Assaulting units:
2nd Marine Division
2/4th Armoured Regiment
3rd Regiment
2/6th Armoured Regiment
98th Infantry Division
131st Combat Engineer Regiment
5th USMC Tank Battalion
7th Infantry Division
3rd Marine Division
110th Combat Engineer Battalion
77th Infantry Division
762nd Tank Battalion
192nd Tank Battalion
93rd Infantry Division
1st Australian Division
11th Airborne Div /2
265th Coastal Artillery Regiment
I US Corps
82nd Mortar Battalion
8th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
3rd USMC Field Artillery Battalion
147th Field Artillery Regiment
I Corps Artillery
205th Field Artillery Battalion
Provisional GMC Grp
25th Infantry Div /3
160th USA Base Force /15

Defending units:
43rd Div /2
11th Ind.Mixed Regiment
Karafuto Mixed Brigade
51st Ind.Mixed Brigade
72nd Division
89th Div /2
5th Fleet
Soya Fortress
23rd Air Flotilla
218th Naval Construction Battalion
29th Field AF Construction Battalion
206th Naval Construction Battalion
178th JAAF AF Bn

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Here is a better shot from yesterday (before the blocking unit was removed) of what is going on up here.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2301
RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs Historiker (A) - 8/19/2018 10:23:09 PM   
GetAssista

 

Posts: 1911
Joined: 9/19/2009
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
The IJA finally takes care of the Allied blocking armor unit after the divisions made it in three days late. Interestingly, it is destroyed rather than retreating. Not sure why as there is a clear path back. It wasn't landed in the hex by sea and ownership shows Allies controlling both borders on the hex crossing.

There is no path back because there is no "back", no Allied bases on Hokkaido yet.

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2302
RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs Historiker (A) - 8/20/2018 12:49:06 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 17325
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
8.4.2.2.1 RETREATS
If during the Assault Phase a defending unit is subject to high odds, it will attempt to retreat..
The hex retreated to must be able to trace a valid supply path to a friendly base and cannot
be solely occupied by enemy units. In addition the unit may only retreat out of a hex across
a friendly controlled hexside. If there is no valid hex to retreat to or the unit fails a morale,
fatigue, experience, and leadership check, the unit may surrender, disperse (cease to exist),
or if Japanese, execute a banzai charge. Units that retreat will lose supplies and suffer more
casualties.

If a unit is tries to retreat, but cannot, it will be checked for elimination. Many factors are
checked including morale, fatigue, experience, leadership, and terrain (for atolls). Troops on
atolls will be eliminated if put in conditions that would require retreat in other terrain. Once
elimination is triggered, if the defender is Allied, the force will surrender.

(in reply to GetAssista)
Post #: 2303
RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs Historiker (A) - 8/20/2018 1:43:28 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 17325
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wuffer

found something in your AAR, what a gem! :-))
quote:



quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

How many fighters do you get from the cost of the Musashi? I´m guessing a lot?


- Musashi arrive on 1 December 1942. So 359 days of production
- Each day require 233 naval points
- Every naval point cost 3 HI points

So 359x233x3=250941 HI points to produce Musashi

Each Single engine planes cost 36 HI (18 for engine and 18 for airframe)

250941/36= 6970,58 1E planes


I've stopped BB Musashi. [smb=00000622.gif]




I remember this post! I'd forgotten the number though. Good reminder. I'll take those airframes over one BB any day!!

Although the downside is that they're also 6,970 VPs, which is quite a lot more than Musashi so I'd have to sue them wisely.


It is only a zero sum game if you run out of heavy industry and not even then....you have barely touched the surface of the analysis. Generally speaking, supply is a bigger constraint depending upon scenario.

7,000 planes x12 supply (assuming ftr) is 84,000 for just putting them on the map. Plus cost of flying them over their life .33 points per, plus they have to trade decently for their vp loss.

And then there is the time value of the analysis. Yamoto comes quite early in the game, what can you build then is 1st gen fighters...maybe Tojo IIa?

Then there is the morale impact of Yamoto...the Allies will spot her, and it will most likely impact their tactical choices...is their a value for slowing down the Allied counter offensive by her mere presence?

And finally, what if they just sit in the pools unused.

Don't get me wrong,not nec. a big Yamoto fan, and not everything mentioned above carries the same weight --but rather are you the kind of Japanese player that can effectively use the Yamoto or something else and it depends a bit on what kind of Allied player (and strategy) you are facing.

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2304
RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs Historiker (A) - 8/20/2018 2:21:59 AM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 8719
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
The Yamato is at least as useful as an intimidation tool as it is a practical weapon. Which is not to say it doesn't have its combat uses. It's seen combat in all of my games so far.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 2305
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 8/21/2018 5:47:54 PM   
Wuffer

 

Posts: 371
Joined: 6/16/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

It "helps" that I'm so slow in getting turns back to him in one of them

It's not your fault: now that you've learned your stealth technology is useless, you have to think harder!


'das Leben ist kurz, die Kunst ist lang'
life is short, art is long - W.Goethe

your results are... amazing.
Ironically, Obvert is quasi playing against himself now, :-),
studied by CR.

a LOT of superb AAR work atm


(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 2306
RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs Historiker (A) - 8/21/2018 5:52:56 PM   
Wuffer

 

Posts: 371
Joined: 6/16/2011
Status: offline

Maybe I should elaborate my point a bit further. We could easily recognize an evolution in tactics, operations and strategy in WitE during the last years - of course, one might add, regarding the quality of the player base, especially those who are not only willing to win but to learn and recognizing their own flaws.

Nemo's impact was not his (now partly outdated) use of certain game mechanics, but a showcase of strategy masterclass and therefore the most basic but paramount principles of conflict that will never get outclassed. (unfortunately he went a bit to far in certain aspects for some people...).

You are already more than a candidate for something like a 'tactical master'; I would let you happily running my airforce and my navy if my life would depend on a WitE-war. :-)

This a zero-sum game. As a lot of experienced spectators are happily to admit you are doing exceptionally well, especially for a scenario ONE(!) stock. Therefore one could assume that the yields of his strategy are falling below of his expectations, at least so far.

One should plan for the real Allies' capabilies: To paraphrase it in a big imaginary chess world, he has committed a big stack in the semi open A-line (Burma) and another one on the king's side (H-line in Sachalin) faaar away which are not supporting each other, _yet_. And he is not ruling the map: Both his advantages are astonishing well contained from your POV (you could add the failed air offensive, too) - he's like Heracles fighting a multi headed Hydra and it become worser every day. What would you do facing this very real chance of defeat? Where is the land of honey and milk?
On the other hand, coming back to Nemo's term, one could argue he had attracted a big japanese Army to be pinned down in a nice blob far forward around Ragoon, where it could neither easily extracted nor supplied...like a nice big egg: hard shell, soft juice.

The strategic architecture of Operation Bragation, the devasting annihilation of the German Armygroup Mitte in 1944, was astonishing simple in comparison with the results - attack all front as long as all opponent's reserves are socked and (over)committed and then surprisingly unleash the real effort; basically one third of the forces for maskirowka, one third real attack and the best for reinforcing the success.

The most interesting aspect of the whole japanese defensive problem is that it is unsolvable. :-)

That said, good luck, hard times are coming. maybe next time it's not a single French DD suddenly in the middle, but a bit more, who knows.



















(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 2307
RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs Historiker (A) - 8/21/2018 8:38:42 PM   
adarbrauner

 

Posts: 1421
Joined: 11/3/2016
From: Zichron Yaaqov, Israel; Before, Treviso, Italy
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wuffer


That said, good luck, hard times are coming. maybe next time it's not a single French DD suddenly in the middle, but a bit more, who knows.






Nice closing bless and wish, heartwarming

(in reply to Wuffer)
Post #: 2308
RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs Historiker (A) - 8/22/2018 7:54:56 AM   
obvert


Posts: 12836
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: online
Dec 30, 1944


As we inch closer to 45 I will continue to try little things to take advantage of any openings Dan leaves. Right now it's all about Wakkanai, but I saw a lone CV and a bunch of amphibs at Ketoi with only a 50 plane CAP. I installed several hundred planes in the Kuriles and set sweeps and strikes. The sweeps never came in, but the strikes scored some hits anyway. Unfortunately the Peggy-T flew only tiny missions out of the total possible. Very odd.

The CV moved out of strike range and toward the DS, so the CAP was light, but we didn't get a shot at it, which is too bad. Both the morning and afternoon strikes do get to the APA TF, which was either loading or unloading, and some troops were nailed, which is always nice. It looks like 1-2 APA sunk, with 2-3AK, 2-3 xAK a DD (Tjerk Hiddes) and an xAP sunk on the day, with a number of LST and smaller amphibs also nailed. The strikes of course targeted some YMS and other silly little TFs instead of the big juicy fat ladies with troops, but that's the way it goes.

It all counts.

Wakkanai continues to struggle against the daily unloading TFs that spark the auto-bombardments, which are much more damaging to the defenders than anything else.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 30, 1944
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on TF, near Ketoi-jima at 132,49

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 17 NM, estimated altitude 20,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 33
D4Y4 Judy x 20

Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk IV x 1
Kittyhawk IV x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 1 destroyed
D4Y4 Judy: 4 destroyed, 1 damaged


Allied aircraft losses
Kittyhawk IV: 1 destroyed
Kittyhawk IV: 2 destroyed


Allied Ships
LST-609, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
LST-585, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

LST-712
LST-912

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x D4Y4 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Ketoi-jima at 134,50

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 131 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 39 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5c Zero x 20
D4Y4 Judy x 19

Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk IV x 16

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5c Zero: 3 destroyed
D4Y4 Judy: 2 damaged
D4Y4 Judy: 2 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
Kittyhawk IV: 4 destroyed

Allied Ships
APA Montrose, Bomb hits 3, and is sunk
AK Triangulum, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires

APA Eastland
DMS Southard
APA Mountrail, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AK Ganymede, Bomb hits 1, on fire


Allied ground losses:
106 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 26 destroyed, 15 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 39 (37 destroyed, 2 disabled)
Vehicles lost 41 (31 destroyed, 10 disabled)


Aircraft Attacking:
16 x D4Y4 Judy releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
3 x D4Y4 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Ketoi-jima at 134,50

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 156 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 42 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5c Zero x 19
A6M8 Zero x 26
B7A2 Grace x 9

Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk IV x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5c Zero: 1 destroyed

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
xAK Mormachawk, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
KV Sudbury, Bomb hits 1, on fire
xAK Stella Lykes, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage


Aircraft Attacking:
5 x B7A2 Grace releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
13 x A6M5c Zero sweeping at 15000 feet
4 x B7A2 Grace releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Ketoi-jima at 134,50

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 84 NM, estimated altitude 36,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 23 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 44
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 30
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy x 6
Ki-100-I Tony x 30

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
LSM-353
LSM-363, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Ketoi-jima at 134,50

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 193 NM, estimated altitude 35,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 53 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 26
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy x 6
Ki-100-I Tony x 6

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
DD Van Galen
DD Tjerk Hiddes, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Ketoi-jima at 132,49

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 18 NM, estimated altitude 21,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
B6N2a Jill x 6

Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk IV x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
B6N2a Jill: 5 damaged

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
LST-586
LST-579, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B6N2a Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 112th Cavalry Regiment, at 122,49 , near Wakkanai

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 37 NM, estimated altitude 42,370 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K5-J George x 19

Allied aircraft
Hellcat I x 9

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Hellcat I: 4 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
18 x N1K5-J George sweeping at 39370 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Ketoi-jima at 132,49

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 26 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 30
D4Y4 Judy x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
D4Y4 Judy: 2 damaged
D4Y4 Judy: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied Ships
LST-586, Bomb hits 3, and is sunk
LST-661, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
LST-660, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires

LST-701

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x D4Y4 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
4 x D4Y4 Judy releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
8 x D4Y4 Judy releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Ketoi-jima at 134,50

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 97 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 28 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5c Zero x 30
A6M8 Zero x 27
B7A2 Grace x 3
D4Y4 Judy x 28

Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk IV x 8
Kittyhawk IV x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5c Zero: 1 destroyed
B7A2 Grace: 3 damaged
D4Y4 Judy: 6 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Kittyhawk IV: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
APA Telfair, Bomb hits 1, on fire
xAP Henry S Grove
LSM-367, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
LSM-357, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage

DD Mahan
AK Triangulum, Bomb hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage
DMS Southard
xAK National Eagle, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAP Pundit, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
LSM-369, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
LSM-359, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk


Allied ground losses:
176 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 16 destroyed, 9 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 2 (2 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Vehicles lost 11 (3 destroyed, 8 disabled)


Aircraft Attacking:
19 x D4Y4 Judy releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Wakkanai (122,48)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 4173 troops, 228 guns, 166 vehicles, Assault Value = 2627

Defending force 41964 troops, 426 guns, 23 vehicles, Assault Value = 783

Japanese ground losses:
149 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 7 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Engineers: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
7th Infantry Division
2nd Marine Division
670th Tank Destroyer Battalion
XIV Corps Combat Engineer Regiment
1st Australian Division
98th Infantry Division
77th Infantry Division
3rd Regiment
3rd Marine Division
2/4th Armoured Regiment
2/6th Armoured Regiment
192nd Tank Battalion
131st Combat Engineer Regiment
110th Combat Engineer Battalion
5th USMC Tank Battalion
762nd Tank Battalion
93rd Infantry Division
11th Airborne Div /2
160th USA Base Force
3rd USMC Field Artillery Battalion
I Corps Artillery
I US Corps
8th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
82nd Mortar Battalion
Provisional GMC Grp
205th Field Artillery Battalion
265th Coastal Artillery Regiment
147th Field Artillery Regiment
25th Infantry Div /3

Defending units:
51st Ind.Mixed Brigade
43rd Div /2
Karafuto Mixed Brigade
72nd Division
89th Div /2
23rd Air Flotilla
11th Ind.Mixed Regiment
29th Field AF Construction Battalion
218th Naval Construction Battalion
Soya Fortress
5th Fleet
206th Naval Construction Battalion
178th JAAF AF Bn

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





Attachment (1)

_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Wuffer)
Post #: 2309
RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs Historiker (A) - 8/22/2018 7:56:19 AM   
obvert


Posts: 12836
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: online
There is still a lot there to strike, but I'll pull back and avoid a massive CAP trap possibility for tomorrow.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2310
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