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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

 
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 8/8/2018 1:17:53 PM   
Lowpe


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Joined: 2/25/2013
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If I recall correctly in Jan of 45 both Formosa and Manchuko get lots of ground troops. Feb of 45 China gets bulked up along with Formosa...it is not till March of 45 that Honshu starts to get lots of ground troops.

And sadly, most of these are poor, poor troops with low morale, low experience, and half disabled.

Since your western front is solid, are you planning on stripping China or Manchuko or both?



< Message edited by Lowpe -- 8/8/2018 1:18:48 PM >

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2221
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 8/8/2018 5:05:25 PM   
obvert


Posts: 12925
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

The planners for D-Day say been there done that, 5 divisions is old hat, where are your three airborne divisions?


He hasn't used those anywhere. I hope he's forgotten the paras somewhere in deep Burma.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Bif1961)
Post #: 2222
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 8/8/2018 5:09:08 PM   
obvert


Posts: 12925
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

If I recall correctly in Jan of 45 both Formosa and Manchuko get lots of ground troops. Feb of 45 China gets bulked up along with Formosa...it is not till March of 45 that Honshu starts to get lots of ground troops.

And sadly, most of these are poor, poor troops with low morale, low experience, and half disabled.

Since your western front is solid, are you planning on stripping China or Manchuko or both?




Well, he just released the invasion package too. That's mostly Honshu.

I've got a lot of free troops around though for Hokkaido. I'll most likely stack the Manchurian/Korean coastline with large numbers of troops and the same on the Chinese coast once they arrive. If I have PPs and need I'll definitely buy some, but right now I think there are a lot of troops, I just need more of them in Wakkanai!

My forts at other bases are pretty decent in major ports on Hokkaido. Had trouble building this one higher than level 6 since it was periodically bombed. I also just thought I'd rail in more if it was invaded. Whoops!

< Message edited by obvert -- 8/9/2018 3:09:00 PM >


_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 2223
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 8/8/2018 11:20:24 PM   
adarbrauner

 

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It reminds of the atmosphere within Japanese command after the Leyte landings, going in for a decisive battle all for all!

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2224
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 8/9/2018 9:51:36 AM   
obvert


Posts: 12925
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

It reminds of the atmosphere within Japanese command after the Leyte landings, going in for a decisive battle all for all!


Actually, I'm not that keen to send the main battle line into the Allied fleet. I'm definitely not going to divert the Death Star by sacrificing my remaining CVs.

I hope to have learned something from history, and from a few other games, and my defence will be piecemeal, very conservative, and will only involve main fleet assets if the situation looks beneficial for both strategic concerns and the VP ratio.

Decisive Battle is a losing doctrine, especially late in the war, unless the Allies leave themselves completely open and vulnerable. I don't think Dan will give me that, but he might open some small doors for action and that's what I hope to use. I want small but positive actions that improve the Japanese situation and give at least an even VP exchange.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to adarbrauner)
Post #: 2225
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 8/9/2018 10:21:58 AM   
obvert


Posts: 12925
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
Dec 22, 1944


The 22nd opens with more little battles, mostly patrol craft and midgets against the invasion TFs. A small MTB TF manages one torpedo hit against an LSD. Always good. Some DDs get caught in a minefield. Also good. PBs sink some YMS that stray too far forward. Good. DD Porter II tangles with another midget and gets a TT after taking the earlier mine hit. Likely a goner. Very good. Another midget puts two fish into APA Golden City! Fantastic! DE Crouder takes a mine and looks to be in trouble. Great.

In the morning sweeps go in over Allied troops that landed one hex outside of Wakkanai. This is the advantage of them being here blocking my rail. After the first few difficult sweeps the rest relentlessly pound CV bleeding CAP, decimating the Hellcats and putting a dent in the Corsairs.

This all opens the door for some smaller strikes to go in (I set them at short range to avoid Wakkanai and the Death Star itself right now). Got a small TF trying to unload troops closer to Sapporo. All gone, which is great. A number of strikes went after the cruisers here but couldn't get a hit. Later strikes in the afternoon saw return of the CAP, and lost some escorts and Graces to even out the daily air loss totals. They did sink some LST and an xAK, plus a few smaller craft.

The Allies try a shock with a few units, likely armor, and do cause some disablements, but luckily don't drop forts and also disable their own. So he knows forts, knows the adjusted defence score currently, knows we have been able to fly in portions of two divisions unhindered, and will likely LR CAP heavily tomorrow.

So will I. I'd like to hit the large air strikes over Wakkanai and see if we can't get into a war of attrition over the base. Sapporo is now relatively secure with two SCTFs in the hex and a 1,000 plane CAP, which will partially be LR CAPing Wakkanai. Sweeps will come from elsewhere.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 22, 1944
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Night Time Surface Combat, near Wakkanai at 123,49, Range 8,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
MTB G-550, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
MTB G-551
MTB G-882

Allied Ships
APA Haskell
APA Bowie
APA Highlands
AKA Artemis
LSV Ozark
LSD Ashland
LSD Belle Grove
LSD Carter Hall
LSD Epping Forest
LSD Gunston Hall
LSD Lindenwald
LSD Oak Hill, Torpedo hits 1
LSD White Marsh
DD Walke II
DD De Haven II

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 335 encounters mine field at Wakkanai (122,48) - Coastal Guns Fire Back!

41 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
DMS Forrest, Shell hits 10, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Little II
DD Porter II, Mine hits 1

Soya Fortress firing at DMS Forrest
DMS Forrest firing at Soya Fortress
11 mines cleared

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Sapporo at 120,51, Range 9,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
PB Chitose Maru #2
PB Kohoku Maru
PB Manyo Maru

Allied Ships
YMS-383, Shell hits 4, and is sunk
YMS-385, Shell hits 4, and is sunk



Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions and 53% moonlight: 11,000 yards
Range closes to 10,000 yards...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 126 encounters mine field at Wakkanai (122,48) - Coastal Guns Fire Back!

6 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
AM Zeal, Shell hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage

Soya Fortress firing at AM Zeal
AM Zeal firing at Soya Fortress
11 mines cleared

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Wakkanai at 122,48

Japanese Ships
SSX Ha-56, hits 10, heavy damage

Allied Ships
DD Porter II, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage
DD Aulick
DMS Forrest, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Little II

SSX Ha-56 launches 2 torpedoes at DD Porter II

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Wakkanai at 122,48

Japanese Ships
SSX Ha-D-101

Allied Ships
APA Golden City, Torpedo hits 2, heavy damage

APA Golden City is sighted by SSX Ha-D-101
SSX Ha-D-101 launches 2 torpedoes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Invasion Support action off Wakkanai (122,48)
Defensive Guns engage approaching landing force

28 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
xAK Kainalu, Shell hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
xAK Diamond head
AK Caelum

15cm 41YT CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Kainalu at 18,000 yards
10cm T98 DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Diamond head at 18,000 yards

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Invasion Support action off Wakkanai (122,48)
Defensive Guns engage approaching landing force

60 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
LST-38, Shell hits 1
AM Triumph
LST-73
SC Constant
LST-42, Shell hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
PF Sausalito
LST-66

AM Triumph firing to suppress enemy battery at 10,000 yards

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Invasion Support action off Wakkanai (122,48)
Defensive Guns engage approaching landing force

25 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
LST-38, Shell hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage
SC Constant
LST-42, heavy fires, heavy damage
LST-66
LST-73

15cm 41YT CD Gun Battery engaging LST-38 at 6,000 yards

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Invasion Support action off Wakkanai (122,48)
Defensive Guns engage approaching landing force

22 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
LST-475, Shell hits 3, on fire
PF Hoquiam
LST-472
LST-474
LST-473

15cm 41YT CD Gun Battery engaging LST-475 at 4,000 yards
Massive explosion on LST-475
PF Hoquiam fired at enemy troops

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 126 encounters mine field at Wakkanai (122,48) - Coastal Guns Fire Back!

5 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
AM Zeal, Shell hits 2, heavy damage
DE Crouter, Mine hits 1, on fire, heavy damage


Soya Fortress firing at AM Zeal
2 mines cleared

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 112th Cavalry Regiment, at 122,49 , near Wakkanai

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 48 NM, estimated altitude 44,010 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K1-J George x 18
N1K2-J George x 20
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 27

Allied aircraft
Seafire L.III x 13
Spitfire VIII x 13
F4U-1D Corsair x 61
F6F-3 Hellcat x 132
F6F-5 Hellcat x 74

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K1-J George: 4 destroyed
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 10 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
Spitfire VIII: 1 destroyed
F4U-1D Corsair: 1 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 2 destroyed
F6F-5 Hellcat: 1 destroyed


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 112th Cavalry Regiment, at 122,49 , near Wakkanai

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 34 NM, estimated altitude 41,300 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K2-J George x 31

Allied aircraft
Seafire L.III x 10
Spitfire VIII x 13
F4U-1D Corsair x 52
F6F-3 Hellcat x 102
F6F-5 Hellcat x 65

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K2-J George: 7 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 6 destroyed
F6F-5 Hellcat: 2 destroyed


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 112th Cavalry Regiment, at 122,49 , near Wakkanai

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 19 NM, estimated altitude 40,910 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M5 Jack x 29

Allied aircraft
Seafire L.III x 8
Spitfire VIII x 9
F4U-1D Corsair x 40
F6F-3 Hellcat x 72
F6F-5 Hellcat x 50

Japanese aircraft losses
J2M5 Jack: 4 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Seafire L.III: 1 destroyed
F4U-1D Corsair: 1 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 3 destroyed
F6F-5 Hellcat: 7 destroyed


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 112th Cavalry Regiment, at 122,49 , near Wakkanai

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 17 NM, estimated altitude 38,270 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K2-J George x 20
Ki-84r Frank x 22

Allied aircraft
Seafire L.III x 6
Spitfire VIII x 7
F4U-1D Corsair x 31
F6F-3 Hellcat x 54
F6F-5 Hellcat x 27

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-84r Frank: 4 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1D Corsair: 3 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 3 destroyed
F6F-5 Hellcat: 1 destroyed


Aircraft Attacking:
5 x Ki-84r Frank sweeping at 38270 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 112th Cavalry Regiment, at 122,49 , near Wakkanai

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 31 NM, estimated altitude 35,440 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-84a Frank x 25

Allied aircraft
Seafire L.III x 6
Spitfire VIII x 5
F4U-1D Corsair x 22
F6F-3 Hellcat x 37
F6F-5 Hellcat x 17

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-84a Frank: 6 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1D Corsair: 1 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed
F6F-5 Hellcat: 2 destroyed


Aircraft Attacking:
8 x Ki-84a Frank sweeping at 34440 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 112th Cavalry Regiment, at 122,49 , near Wakkanai

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 44 NM, estimated altitude 37,440 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K2-J George x 16
Ki-84b Frank x 37

Allied aircraft
Seafire L.III x 6
Spitfire VIII x 3
F4U-1D Corsair x 19
F6F-3 Hellcat x 29
F6F-5 Hellcat x 11

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-84b Frank: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Seafire L.III: 1 destroyed
F4U-1D Corsair: 1 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 3 destroyed
F6F-5 Hellcat: 1 destroyed


Aircraft Attacking:
20 x Ki-84b Frank sweeping at 34440 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 112th Cavalry Regiment, at 122,49 , near Wakkanai

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 37 NM, estimated altitude 39,440 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K2-J George x 16
Ki-84b Frank x 48

Allied aircraft
Seafire L.III x 3
Spitfire VIII x 2
F4U-1D Corsair x 13
F6F-3 Hellcat x 22
F6F-5 Hellcat x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-84b Frank: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Seafire L.III: 1 destroyed
Spitfire VIII: 1 destroyed
F4U-1D Corsair: 1 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 6 destroyed
F6F-5 Hellcat: 2 destroyed


Aircraft Attacking:
22 x Ki-84b Frank sweeping at 34440 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 112th Cavalry Regiment, at 122,49 , near Wakkanai

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 39 NM, estimated altitude 45,370 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K5-J George x 40

Allied aircraft
Spitfire VIII x 1
F4U-1D Corsair x 7
F6F-3 Hellcat x 10
F6F-5 Hellcat x 2

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K5-J George: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Spitfire VIII: 1 destroyed
F4U-1D Corsair: 2 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 6 destroyed
F6F-5 Hellcat: 1 destroyed


Aircraft Attacking:
30 x N1K5-J George sweeping at 39370 feet
5 x N1K5-J George sweeping at 39370 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Asahikawa at 122,50

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 20 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5c Zero x 44
A6M8 Zero x 63
B7A2 Grace x 44

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
DE Jack Miller, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
LCI-781, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
LCI-784, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
LCI-779, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
LCI-783, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
LCI-778, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk


Allied ground losses:
1083 casualties reported
Squads: 15 destroyed, 38 disabled
Non Combat: 29 destroyed, 17 disabled

Engineers: 5 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
44 x B7A2 Grace bombing from 6000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DE Jack Miller
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring LCI-779

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Asahikawa at 122,50

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 28 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 64
D4Y4 Judy x 32

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
DE Jack Miller, Bomb hits 3, and is sunk

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x D4Y4 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
29 x D4Y4 Judy releasing from 10000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 112th Cavalry Regiment, at 122,49 , near Wakkanai

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 20 NM, estimated altitude 42,370 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K2-J George x 16
N1K5-J George x 27

Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 1
F6F-3 Hellcat x 1

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1D Corsair: 1 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed


Aircraft Attacking:
27 x N1K5-J George sweeping at 39370 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Wakkanai at 122,48

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 85 NM, estimated altitude 35,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 23 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 20
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy x 18
Ki-100-I Tony x 35

Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 4

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 1 destroyed
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged
Ki-100-I Tony: 1 destroyed


No Allied losses

Allied Ships
LST-356
DD Petard
LST-24
CA Cumberland

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy bombing from 31000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb
9 x Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Wakkanai at 122,48

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 91 NM, estimated altitude 35,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 25 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 17
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy x 9

Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy: 1 damaged

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
AK Naos, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CA Shropshire
xAK Diamond head

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Wakkanai at 122,49

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 25 NM, estimated altitude 35,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy x 9
Ki-100-I Tony x 35

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
LSM-317, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
LSM-319
LSM-310, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

Carrier support unable to supply air cover..

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Wakkanai at 121,49

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 22 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5c Zero x 44
A6M8 Zero x 29
B7A2 Grace x 44

Allied aircraft
Seafire L.III x 2
Spitfire VIII x 3
F4U-1D Corsair x 26
F6F-3 Hellcat x 44
F6F-5 Hellcat x 22

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5c Zero: 11 destroyed
A6M8 Zero: 12 destroyed
B7A2 Grace: 13 destroyed, 4 damaged
B7A2 Grace: 2 destroyed by flak


Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
DD O' Brien II
DD Barton II
DD Lyman K. Swenson

Aircraft Attacking:
16 x B7A2 Grace launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Wakkanai at 122,48

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 78 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 21 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 45
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy x 21

Allied aircraft
Spitfire VIII x 8
F4U-1D Corsair x 8
F6F-3 Hellcat x 11
F6F-5 Hellcat x 12

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M8 Zero: 18 destroyed
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy: 16 damaged
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy: 1 destroyed by flak

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
LST-454, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
xAK Kainalu, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
LST-17, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk

CA Pensacola
LST-451, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
LST-457

Aircraft Attacking:
20 x Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Invasion Support action off Wakkanai (122,48)
Defensive Guns engage approaching landing force

33 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
xAK Lihue
DE Damon M. Cummings
PF Pasco
xAK Mahukona, Shell hits 2, on fire
xAK Diamond head
AK Caelum

DE Damon M. Cummings firing to suppress enemy battery at 14,000 yards

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Invasion Support action off Wakkanai (122,48)
Defensive Guns engage approaching landing force

31 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
LST-66, Shell hits 6, heavy fires, heavy damage
SC Constant
LST-42, heavy damage
LST-74
LST-73

15cm 41YT CD Gun Battery engaging LST-66 at 3,000 yards

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Wakkanai (122,48)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 30876 troops, 304 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1026

Defending force 73476 troops, 1068 guns, 1736 vehicles, Assault Value = 1983

Japanese ground losses:
148 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 10 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled

Engineers: 1 destroyed, 1 disabled
Guns lost 4 (2 destroyed, 2 disabled)

Assaulting units:
72nd Division
11th Ind.Mixed Regiment
43rd Div /2
Soya Fortress
Karafuto Mixed Brigade
51st Ind.Mixed Brigade
89th Div /2
206th Naval Construction Battalion
5th Fleet
23rd Air Flotilla
29th Field AF Construction Battalion
218th Naval Construction Battalion
178th JAAF AF Bn

Defending units:
77th Infantry Division
192nd Tank Battalion
762nd Tank Battalion
2/6th Armoured Regiment
2/4th Armoured Regiment
5th USMC Tank Battalion
110th Combat Engineer Battalion
98th Infantry Division
3rd Marine Division
3rd Regiment
93rd Infantry Division
1st Australian Division
11th Airborne Div /2
82nd Mortar Battalion
3rd USMC Field Artillery Battalion
205th Field Artillery Battalion
265th Coastal Artillery Regiment
I Corps Artillery
8th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
147th Field Artillery Regiment

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Wakkanai (122,48)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 11930 troops, 258 guns, 838 vehicles, Assault Value = 1983

Defending force 39603 troops, 362 guns, 25 vehicles, Assault Value = 1017

Allied adjusted assault: 417

Japanese adjusted defense: 2019

Allied assault odds: 1 to 4 (fort level 6)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), disruption(-), preparation(-)
experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
1157 casualties reported
Squads: 4 destroyed, 100 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 9 disabled

Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled

Allied ground losses:
226 casualties reported
Squads: 3 destroyed, 45 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 49 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Vehicles lost 84 (2 destroyed, 82 disabled)


Assaulting units:
110th Combat Engineer Battalion
3rd Marine Division
2/6th Armoured Regiment
3rd Regiment
762nd Tank Battalion
192nd Tank Battalion
77th Infantry Division
1st Australian Division
93rd Infantry Division
98th Infantry Division
2/4th Armoured Regiment
5th USMC Tank Battalion
11th Airborne Div /2
265th Coastal Artillery Regiment
3rd USMC Field Artillery Battalion
I Corps Artillery
8th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
82nd Mortar Battalion
205th Field Artillery Battalion
147th Field Artillery Regiment

Defending units:
72nd Division
51st Ind.Mixed Brigade
Karafuto Mixed Brigade
11th Ind.Mixed Regiment
Soya Fortress
43rd Div /2
89th Div /2
23rd Air Flotilla
5th Fleet
29th Field AF Construction Battalion
218th Naval Construction Battalion
206th Naval Construction Battalion
178th JAAF AF Bn

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is the hex where the Allies tried to land more and were thwarted by Graces.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2226
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 8/9/2018 10:23:07 AM   
obvert


Posts: 12925
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
Here are the air losses for the day. Pretty heavy, but not unexpected. I hope to turn it slightly in our favour tomorrow.






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2227
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 8/9/2018 10:24:58 AM   
obvert


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The midgets are turning out to be pretty good right now. Getting more hits than the larger I-boats and RO-subs, which have all been DCed before launching lately. I've got about 15 more on the way though, so there is some hope that in the tight straits up here something will get lucky.




Attachment (1)

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(in reply to obvert)
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 8/9/2018 10:28:15 AM   
obvert


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Here are the recorded ship losses for the day, but obviously missing some of the Allied sunk due to FOW. Should be a DD or two there, plus another 1-2 DE, some more LST and a few extra LCI/LSM.





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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 8/9/2018 12:50:09 PM   
adarbrauner

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert



Actually, I'm not that keen to send the main battle line into the Allied fleet. I'm definitely not going to divert the Death Star by sacrificing my remaining CVs.

I hope to have learned something from history, and from a few other games, and my defence will be piecemeal, very conservative, and will only involve main fleet assets if the situation looks beneficial for both strategic concerns and the VP ratio.

Decisive Battle is a losing doctrine, especially late in the war, unless the Allies leave themselves completely open and vulnerable. I don't think Dan will give me that, but he might open some small doors for action and that's what I hope to use. I want small but positive actions that improve the Japanese situation and give at least an even VP exchange.



I was thinking more from the Army point of view on the Leyte land and air campaign rather than on sea.
Yamashita and the rest of the staff took it very seriously, sent all and the best they could to Leyte, they were spoiling for a decisive confrontation and victory, and thought the Allies had granted them a good occasion to be confronted at equal terms, and on the ground, finally; it was a very difficult campaign (going to purchase a good book on the subject I think...)


< Message edited by adarbrauner -- 8/9/2018 12:56:08 PM >

(in reply to obvert)
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 8/9/2018 12:57:58 PM   
Lowpe


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Great midget action!

(in reply to adarbrauner)
Post #: 2231
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 8/9/2018 1:37:54 PM   
JohnDillworth


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The Army had a decent plan for the Philippines. It got off to a terrible start because most of the good aircraft and pilots that were to be the backbone of the defense were held behind the lines in Formosa. Problem was Halsey had a poor concept of “behind the lines” and engaged them in them in preparation for action in the Philippines. Japan took the bait and most of the planes earmarked for the SHO plan were gone. Leyte Gulf May have been a closer run thing had those planes been available. As for books. I believe Ian Tolls recent The Conquering Tide might be just what you are looking for. BTW, if you are “Team Mcarther” you will not like this book. He was wrong and Halsey was right. Quickest road to Japan did not go through the Philippines. Great read. Highest recommendation.


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(in reply to adarbrauner)
Post #: 2232
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 8/9/2018 3:08:23 PM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert



Actually, I'm not that keen to send the main battle line into the Allied fleet. I'm definitely not going to divert the Death Star by sacrificing my remaining CVs.

I hope to have learned something from history, and from a few other games, and my defence will be piecemeal, very conservative, and will only involve main fleet assets if the situation looks beneficial for both strategic concerns and the VP ratio.

Decisive Battle is a losing doctrine, especially late in the war, unless the Allies leave themselves completely open and vulnerable. I don't think Dan will give me that, but he might open some small doors for action and that's what I hope to use. I want small but positive actions that improve the Japanese situation and give at least an even VP exchange.



I was thinking more from the Army point of view on the Leyte land and air campaign rather than on sea.
Yamashita and the rest of the staff took it very seriously, sent all and the best they could to Leyte, they were spoiling for a decisive confrontation and victory, and thought the Allies had granted them a good occasion to be confronted at equal terms, and on the ground, finally; it was a very difficult campaign (going to purchase a good book on the subject I think...)



On land it's possible the IJA could do some work here on Hokkaido. The USN will have it's say as well though, and there are enough BBs and 4Es around to make any land campaign dicey. If I do have time to engage the blockade hex before anything decisive happens at Wakkanai, it could relieve pressure on the base though as well. That could open the door for further reinforcement by air and sea.

I've been accumulating my APDs and LSTs around here for a few turns. The KB is nearby, or most of it. The BBs are moving to Sapporo, all available CA are there, and the many Northern Honshu airbases in range are gearing up for something soon.

_____________________________

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(in reply to adarbrauner)
Post #: 2233
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 8/9/2018 3:38:14 PM   
obvert


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MIDGETS!!

The 23rd starts off with a bang! Alabama takes two penetrating hits and could be out for a good while. This makes all of the 4 VP midgets I've lost so far completely worth it.

There was a also a damage to engines message, so it looks like she'll need yard time.



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< Message edited by obvert -- 8/9/2018 3:42:34 PM >


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"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 8/9/2018 3:49:13 PM   
obvert


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Some low unescorted Jills get through and hit the old and slow Adelaide with two fish. I didn't have any other strikes going on the day.




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(in reply to obvert)
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 8/9/2018 3:51:45 PM   
obvert


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In the air the LR CAP did fairly well, but was set so high for sweeps it didn't get to a lot of the strikes. Still had a good ratio in A to A.

The Allies hit Asahikawa fields, unexpectedly, and torched a few Oscars and Goerges, but this didn't really do anything for them otherwise, and that occupied a good portion of sweeps and bombers.





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"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2236
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 8/9/2018 3:56:01 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

MIDGETS!!



I've had some success with them in counter-invasion harassment too. The ones with >84km range are particularly useful. Rather than have them sit in a patrol hex, I'll move them in and out of the hex in question to reduce their DL.

In a recent use, I had them hit BB Pennsylvania with two torps while it was supporting an amphibious invasion. They also put two into a damaged Lexington as it was egressing the area. 6-8 of these guys around a target hex can be a potent annoyance.

_____________________________


(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2237
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 8/9/2018 4:00:02 PM   
obvert


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On the day the air losses are roughly even, just over 100 each, but ours include the 25 fighters lost on the ground, and the LR CAP did get to about 15 4Es on the day.




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(in reply to obvert)
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 8/9/2018 4:02:01 PM   
adarbrauner

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

The Army had a decent plan for the Philippines. It got off to a terrible start because most of the good aircraft and pilots that were to be the backbone of the defense were held behind the lines in Formosa. Problem was Halsey had a poor concept of “behind the lines” and engaged them in them in preparation for action in the Philippines. Japan took the bait and most of the planes earmarked for the SHO plan were gone. Leyte Gulf May have been a closer run thing had those planes been available. As for books. I believe Ian Tolls recent The Conquering Tide might be just what you are looking for. BTW, if you are “Team Mcarther” you will not like this book. He was wrong and Halsey was right. Quickest road to Japan did not go through the Philippines. Great read. Highest recommendation.




So it results that Halsey had a good concept;

The book currently in the crosshair actually is this "eyte 1944, The Soldiers' Battle" by Natan Prefer; it is very detailed; but the real gem would be something detailed from the side of Japan, if available in English;

Edit: McArthur should be judged according to his ability as a field commander, that I still can't grasp somehow, as opposed to is counterpart Yamashita and teammate Nimitz, whose field and sea record and deeds are more evident;

< Message edited by adarbrauner -- 8/9/2018 4:26:56 PM >

(in reply to JohnDillworth)
Post #: 2239
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 8/9/2018 4:33:44 PM   
Bif1961


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In consulting the PC editors of this thread the term midget submarines will be replaced by submarines for little sailors.

(in reply to adarbrauner)
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 8/9/2018 5:18:04 PM   
modrow

 

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Excellent work, very inspiring description of it.

Do you have an idea why the midget subs work as well as they seem to do at the moment? I always have difficulties to make them work well when I play IJ.

Thanks

Hartwig

(in reply to obvert)
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 8/9/2018 6:30:17 PM   
JohnDillworth


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Mcarther was at the July 27, 1944 meeting with Rosevelt and Nimitz. Nimitz wanted Formosa and Mcarther wanted the Philippines. He was wrong and should be judged on his strategic decision making. Pure ego killed a lot soldiers, sailors and civilians. Ultimately it was Rosevelts decision but Mcarther incorrect strategy won out.

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(in reply to adarbrauner)
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 8/9/2018 6:34:47 PM   
witpqs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

Mcarther was at the July 27, 1944 meeting with Rosevelt and Nimitz. Nimitz wanted Formosa and Mcarther wanted the Philippines. He was wrong and should be judged on his strategic decision making. Pure ego killed a lot soldiers, sailors and civilians. Ultimately it was Rosevelts decision but Mcarther incorrect strategy won out.

That's my reading of history as well.

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 8/9/2018 8:18:43 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

Mcarther was at the July 27, 1944 meeting with Rosevelt and Nimitz. Nimitz wanted Formosa and Mcarther wanted the Philippines. He was wrong and should be judged on his strategic decision making. Pure ego killed a lot soldiers, sailors and civilians. Ultimately it was Rosevelts decision but Mcarther incorrect strategy won out.


I'm not convinced that it was such a Black: White issue, John. MacArthur's (actually King's, but who's counting) island hopping / base hopping strategy up the P/NG coast and into the Moluccas was effective. Particularly so when there was a lack of a 'real' navy for most of this effort. And MacArthur did a decent job in using our limited ground LCUs (combined with the Australians and New Zealanders) in this arena. Were it not for his efforts to bypass Rabaul and nullify Truk's value in the SoPAC, I think a Formosa-or-bust CentPAC-focused effort was much more risky. MacArthur's campaign effectively sealed off the DEI and Philippines from the Japanese and reduced their threat to our left flank. Imagine a Formosa campaign without the Philippines sealed off-that could have been really ugly.

MacArthur was a prima donna-a real pain in the neck. And a showboat. But the contribution of the SOPAC campaign was appreciable and necessary to the Allied victory.

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 8/9/2018 8:22:42 PM   
witpqs


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No differences of opinion about the campaign up to The Philippines, only over choosing the Philippines.

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 8/9/2018 9:53:35 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

No differences of opinion about the campaign up to The Philippines, only over choosing the Philippines.


So take P/NG, Morotai, isolate Rabaul and Truk, island hopping=good, but don't take the Philippines once you've accomplished that? Leave all of the PI 'behind your lines'? I don't see the military logic in that either. If you're going to Formosa, you've *got* to take the Philippines.

I think there's some argument about whether Palau was necessary in the hops up there. But if not the Philippine archipelago, then how did you intend to secure your flank?

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 8/9/2018 10:09:14 PM   
JohnDillworth


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quote:

MacArthur's campaign effectively sealed off the DEI and Philippines from the Japanese


Actually, it didn't, and don't think Halsey didn't notice. Subs kept hitting stuff but ships were still getting through the gap behind Formosa. Halsey & Nimitz thought, correctly I believe, that holding Formosa would have sealed that door tightly shut and would have allowed us to better supply and use China to end the war. Keep in mind nobody knew about a A-Bomb. I suspect with Formosa in hand the Philippines would have been necessary. Fortunately....we have an excellent simulation in this game. Imagine, or recreate, the respective forces and positions in the game in say.....September 1944. I submit to you that the obvious choice would be Formosa. That takes all resources out of play 100% and save the need for massive ground forces to take back the Philippines. The assumption , at the time, was that an invasion of the mainland of Japan was going to be required. Why burn all those divisions taking something off the direct path? Mcarther just wanted his Army show and to say "I have returned". Same reason he refused to let the Australians participate in the Philippines. More glory for him

< Message edited by JohnDillworth -- 8/9/2018 10:17:03 PM >


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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 8/9/2018 10:58:27 PM   
Lokasenna


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Not to mention the potential geopolitical ramifications of a bigger end-war presence in mainland China. However, in real life unlike in the game, B-29 bombing from the Marianas really turned out to be sufficient.

RE: the Philippines choice... I'm not certain taking the Philippines was absolutely necessary either, from a purely military perspective. But there was also politics at play: it was a de facto (but not de jure) US territory prior to the war.

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 8/9/2018 11:11:52 PM   
anarchyintheuk

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

MacArthur's campaign effectively sealed off the DEI and Philippines from the Japanese


Actually, it didn't, and don't think Halsey didn't notice. Subs kept hitting stuff but ships were still getting through the gap behind Formosa. Halsey & Nimitz thought, correctly I believe, that holding Formosa would have sealed that door tightly shut and would have allowed us to better supply and use China to end the war. Keep in mind nobody knew about a A-Bomb. I suspect with Formosa in hand the Philippines would have been necessary. Fortunately....we have an excellent simulation in this game. Imagine, or recreate, the respective forces and positions in the game in say.....September 1944. I submit to you that the obvious choice would be Formosa. That takes all resources out of play 100% and save the need for massive ground forces to take back the Philippines. The assumption , at the time, was that an invasion of the mainland of Japan was going to be required. Why burn all those divisions taking something off the direct path? Mcarther just wanted his Army show and to say "I have returned". Same reason he refused to let the Australians participate in the Philippines. More glory for him


$.02

You would need even more 'massive ground forces' to take Formosa. It would have made Okinawa look like a cat meme. Worse terrain, more troops, . . . I think . . . although I don't ever remember seeing a reliable estimate for the Formosan garrison during that period.

Absent carriers, it would have been relatively easy to reinforce from China as well.

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 8/9/2018 11:29:05 PM   
JohnDillworth


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I meant ground forces compared to the Philippines. Certainly a large ground force would have been necessary maybe as the large as the Philippines, but it probably would have been over in a few months. That campaign was still going on when the war ended. When Operation Causeway was planned it was estimated that there were 50,000 Japanese combat troops on he island. Figure you need 3x that to consider an invasion. Yeah....that would have been a mess. Still even if it was comparable to the Philippines the tactical value was greater

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