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How to best reinforce PM in the early days of the war?

 
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How to best reinforce PM in the early days of the war? - 5/3/2012 10:35:59 PM   
macroman247

 

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(GC vs AI/Scen #2)

Perhaps I am not forming my TFs well because getting troops into PM is a nightmare. It's the first week of January 1942 and I have some APs/xAPs trying to unload some troops to PM. Japan has already taken Rabaul/Lae etc and any ships at PM get blown out of the water by AF. I have tried forming both Amph and Transport TF but it isn't pretty. I would think it is realistic to lose ships given what I am trying to do but how else does anyone reinforce PM?
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RE: How to best reinforce PM in the early days of the war? - 5/3/2012 10:51:27 PM   
Canoerebel


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You can reinforce a variety of ways:

1.  Sub transport (for small numbers)
2.  Air transport (for small numbers)
3.  Fast transport using APDs
4.  Amphibious transport
5.  Strategic transport

If Netties are in range, as they are in your case, you'll need some fighter protection at Port Moresby for methods 4 and 5 (and for 3, too, if you don't want to risk the loss of those precious APDs).  If you don't have it, then you just have to accept the losses you're taking.

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RE: How to best reinforce PM in the early days of the war? - 5/3/2012 11:12:47 PM   
macroman247

 

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Sounds like I'm doing it right then. This early in the war, there is little/no fighter cover and I don't have APDs for fast transport. Thanks.

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RE: How to best reinforce PM in the early days of the war? - 5/3/2012 11:27:01 PM   
JohnDillworth


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One adjustment you might make. If it's just troops you need to get there don't load supplies. Send the troops on xAP's and then send supply on xAk's. Small task forces or single ships perhaps? If the allies have enough of anything in 1942 it's small xAK's so you can send them up one at a time (subs will get a bunch)

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RE: How to best reinforce PM in the early days of the war? - 5/3/2012 11:31:44 PM   
ny59giants


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You have some small xAKLs that are KMP Class that can convert to xAPs to help.

Your should get some P-40 groups in mid January that stay for two months, but have lousy pilot quality in Australia.

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RE: How to best reinforce PM in the early days of the war? - 5/3/2012 11:33:10 PM   
pompack


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Also, playing against the AI sending troops to PM is a good thing. However, when you play against a human you are just throwing them away. The Japanese can take PM anytime they please between January and April. If they choose not to take it, you will have fighters that you can throw in in May and thus cover a larger convoy. Until then you need to insure that there are enough supplies there to support the fighters if you wish to send them. Conversely, if the Japanese take PM it cannot be held in the face of 4E bombers which can (sometimes) hurt merchies and the rest of the time destroy supplies; PM can be retaken in Fall 42 after the Japanese have starved for a while. Once again, the more troops there the worse the losses when it does fall; applies to both the Allies and the Japanese.

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RE: How to best reinforce PM in the early days of the war? - 5/4/2012 12:55:33 AM   
Q-Ball


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I think Pompack is right; against a human, it's a deathtrap for both sides. The Japanese would really be better off if Port Moresby sank into the ocean, but it's there......unfortunately.



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RE: How to best reinforce PM in the early days of the war? - 5/4/2012 2:54:14 AM   
Mike Solli


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

I think Pompack is right; against a human, it's a deathtrap for both sides. The Japanese would really be better off if Port Moresby sank into the ocean, but it's there......unfortunately.




I wish I could program. I'd program Pt. Moresby to sink about Feb 42, right after the Allies packed it with planes and men.

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RE: How to best reinforce PM in the early days of the war? - 5/4/2012 3:33:11 AM   
geofflambert


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It's too late in your case but I think the best way to reinforce PM is to reinforce Rabaul.  It will distract them for a while, hopefully long enough for the Americans to start arriving.  It's going to be a long war, and if you're scared of casualties, well, get used to it.  Be aggressive!  (I'm a real woosie in Burma though.)  Also if you're determined, throw in a bunch more AKLs and give him too many targets to hit, especially when you're moving troops.  Some things are more expendable than others, and the cost to retake something is often more than it is to hold it.  Yes on the subs though, they're not good for anything else until you get decent torpedoes, and even if enemy DDs are patrolling your port, they usually get through and dock.

< Message edited by geofflambert -- 5/4/2012 3:34:20 AM >

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RE: How to best reinforce PM in the early days of the war? - 5/4/2012 4:16:10 PM   
armin


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Get B bombers there. Small squad should be enough. They can fly without escort - destroy the enemy air cap, bomb target and get back. Japanese player has absolutely nothink that can counter any air raid in that area except KB. If you know KB is not there you can level bomb any port and airfield in area.

The worst that can happen is lot of damaged B bombers but then again early jap fighters have no cannons.

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RE: How to best reinforce PM in the early days of the war? - 5/4/2012 5:31:36 PM   
Empire101


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

I think Pompack is right; against a human, it's a deathtrap for both sides. The Japanese would really be better off if Port Moresby sank into the ocean, but it's there......unfortunately.




How true. Personally I try to bomb the airfield and then the port at Moresby to destruction and try to keep it that way, thus leaving many Allied units slowly starving to death.
Its cheaper than taking it!!


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RE: How to best reinforce PM in the early days of the war? - 5/4/2012 8:40:18 PM   
dr.hal


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Maybe I'm the odd ball.....Ok, I AM the odd ball, but I don't agree that PM has to be a sink hole for the allied player. I've kept it and stopped a Jap division in its tracks that landed and tried to do something about it......

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RE: How to best reinforce PM in the early days of the war? - 5/4/2012 11:02:40 PM   
pompack


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

Maybe I'm the odd ball.....Ok, I AM the odd ball, but I don't agree that PM has to be a sink hole for the allied player. I've kept it and stopped a Jap division in its tracks that landed and tried to do something about it......


Assuming play against a human player who takes Rabaul NLT Feb42

Given Rabaul, it does not take much to take Lae and Buna since they are on the wrong side of the Own Stanley's from the Allied perspective.

Once the Japanse have fighters at Lae, PM can be suppressed easily given the tiny number of defending fighters that the Allies can put into PM in Spring 42

Once PM CAP is suppressed, it makes a nifty training ground for incipient bombers by bombing the PM airfield and port for fun and practice. This also steadily reduces the PM supply level as well as making anything except Fast Transport and Sub Transport suicidal. And a port at 100 % damage makes even Fast Transport risky

Now the Japanese do not have to go around Milne Bay, then can really walk from Buna to PM. It takes a while, but it also takes a while for the Allied defenders in PM to starve.

Once a Japanese division walks over the mountains and confronts a starving garrison it is all over. If the Allies choose to run a couple of division equivilents in as garrison, the Japanese can afford to allocate a second division equivilent of their own because of the increased value of the prize (and the prize is Allied infantry loss, not the points for PM)

Now the best thing that the Japanese can do after taking PM is to march everyone except a minimal (very minimal) garrison back over the mountains to safety.

Just my experience (from both sides)

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RE: How to best reinforce PM in the early days of the war? - 5/5/2012 7:59:03 AM   
inqistor


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quote:

ORIGINAL: macroman247

(GC vs AI/Scen #2)

Perhaps I am not forming my TFs well because getting troops into PM is a nightmare. It's the first week of January 1942 and I have some APs/xAPs trying to unload some troops to PM. Japan has already taken Rabaul/Lae etc and any ships at PM get blown out of the water by AF. I have tried forming both Amph and Transport TF but it isn't pretty. I would think it is realistic to lose ships given what I am trying to do but how else does anyone reinforce PM?

It is mostly problem of unloading speed, not TF composition. You just need to load ships in such way, that they drop everything in one phase, and get back home, so APs can not be optimal choice, because they take too much troops anyway.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pompack

Once PM CAP is suppressed, it makes a nifty training ground for incipient bombers by bombing the PM airfield and port for fun and practice. This also steadily reduces the PM supply level as well as making anything except Fast Transport and Sub Transport suicidal. And a port at 100 % damage makes even Fast Transport risky

Now the Japanese do not have to go around Milne Bay, then can really walk from Buna to PM. It takes a while, but it also takes a while for the Allied defenders in PM to starve.

Once a Japanese division walks over the mountains and confronts a starving garrison it is all over. If the Allies choose to run a couple of division equivilents in as garrison, the Japanese can afford to allocate a second division equivilent of their own because of the increased value of the prize (and the prize is Allied infantry loss, not the points for PM)

Now the best thing that the Japanese can do after taking PM is to march everyone except a minimal (very minimal) garrison back over the mountains to safety.

It is quite hard to close airfield for CAP (more than 50%+5*airfield size damages needed). With enough Engineers it can be reopened during one phase. Also, there are enough nearby bases, and islands to provide LRCAP, unless Japan takes them all (and they can be supressed from Australia). So it is doable only during primary shortage of fighter units.

And I do not understand, why it is supposed to be Japanese death trap, as surrounding whole base by land will take weeks, so in most cases, even when Japanese forces will be defeated, they just retreat into jungle.

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RE: How to best reinforce PM in the early days of the war? - 5/5/2012 2:39:47 PM   
pompack


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1. You don't suppress CAP by bombing, CAP is suppressed by sweeps
2. The game is not a matter of weeks, it is a matter of years. The Japanese "retreat into the jungle", harrassed by bombers for practice. By the time they get to Buna, it has been isolated as supressed from PM. So they walk to Lae; the few that survive are still starving because by then Lae is cut off. And so it goes. By 1944, they have contributed nothing to the defense of NG since they "retreated into the jungle" and there are few if any survivors.

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RE: How to best reinforce PM in the early days of the war? - 5/5/2012 4:24:26 PM   
Misconduct


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I've played 4 pbem's so far and half way through my 4th, each time Port Moresby is a key target (For me its always been Darwin). As a Japanese player, you have choices in what to do - I say stay the hell away from Moresby, Milne Bay is worth more in my opinion, having to have ships round Milne Bay to resupply Moresby can be a dangerous game.

On my third PBEM I straight ignored Rubaul and took Moresby early, then Milne Bay - which was a bad idea, LBA eventually bombed me back to Rubaul then in late 43 my opponent simply walked over - taking Moresby without a fight.

On this PBEM, I handed moresby over on a platter, ignoring it completely as allied, I instead focused on Cooktown and Townville, I had to give up Darwin, however my opponent simply wanted nothing of it, he was trapped at Darwin before as I was in the previous PBEM.
Darwin is logitically good for the Japanese, it can be built into a nice base, and resupplying isn't to much of a problem, however Airpower is - as the Allies can come over with 4E's, you simply are buying time.

My opponent this time around completely ignored Rubaul even, focusing on keeping the Marshall island chain under heavy air threat, while building up WeWak and Hollindia instead.

So far I basically captured Tarawa, Luganville (7/43) and starting a rebuild process, he has all his carriers as do I, however I am looking at the long term goal of walking my way over to Darwin then up to Java.


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RE: How to best reinforce PM in the early days of the war? - 5/5/2012 5:36:22 PM   
Banzan

 

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Against the AI, i wouldn't reinforce PM at all. Too easy to destroy too many ships and LCUs. I even let the AI land in australia if the implied script is chosen. Defending hard can give you a good feeling, but it will ruin the japanese forces far too fast as the AI will send troops and troops and troops without enough cover/support like a human player would. And once you send enough aviation support and planes to Australia, you can take back PM any time. Many players (including me) use their small ammount of early P-38s there, once the droptanks are avaible.

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RE: How to best reinforce PM in the early days of the war? - 5/5/2012 5:38:59 PM   
USSAmerica


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For a fantastic example of how NOT to reinforce PM in the early game (or even May, 1942), take a look at Historiker's AAR. I'm sure he has provided many details of the lesson I learned.

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RE: How to best reinforce PM in the early days of the war? - 5/6/2012 10:38:06 AM   
cantona2


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vs Human opponent, if he wants it he will get it. There are some things that can be done to give the Japs a bloody nose or make him bring a big hammer, though they often do! There is a RAA Coastal gun unit, I think in Adelaide that isn't restricted closed. Its 6 inchers can cause a lot of damage. You make also get a lucky hit with those USAAF Banshees you get early on. Ultimately if the Jap is serious about getting PM he'll get it.

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