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RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222)

 
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RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 7/10/2012 11:26:19 PM   
Peltonx


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Not a bad blizzard. Probably a draw less then 10 total wiped german units. His morale took a beating.

Wow you have allot of units and just over 5 million men still? Thats not a good sign I am guessing. Your not going to be close to 6.5 million are you by June?

Game is in the balance for sure, allot different from ours with no lvl 3-4 forts and lowered manpower output.

You never lost Moscow, so I would say at this point you still have the upper hand, but not by much.

Very good AAR.

Good Luck



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RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 7/11/2012 12:30:40 AM   
KamilS

 

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quote:

Pelton

Wow you have allot of units and just over 5 million men still? Thats not a good sign I am guessing. Your not going to be close to 6.5 million are you by June?



I do not have many units - I cannibalized plenty to get offensive going, so my lines will be very thin.


No chance for 6,5M army.

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RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 7/11/2012 12:39:33 AM   
KamilS

 

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T37 center (German)


Calm before the storm. To be honest it suits me, because I won't have any problems with withdrawing.




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RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 7/11/2012 12:40:38 AM   
KamilS

 

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T37 south (German)


Nothing significant happened.




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RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 7/11/2012 1:39:09 AM   
KamilS

 

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T37 north (Soviet)


Last turn of blizzard so great withdrawal has began.

I am aware, that North-western front might be stronger than opposing German units but I want to have to lines of defense here.




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RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 7/11/2012 1:43:24 AM   
KamilS

 

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T37 center (Soviet)


I flee towards Moscow and will make my stand there using pre-blizzard fortifications.




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RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 7/11/2012 1:46:52 AM   
KamilS

 

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T37 center/south (Soviet)



My forces here are very strong and numerous so I do not plan to give much ground here.




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RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 7/11/2012 1:48:53 AM   
KamilS

 

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T37 center/south 2 (Soviet)


Situation here is bad and any decent push will breach my lines with ease.




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RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 7/11/2012 1:56:59 AM   
KamilS

 

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T37 south (Soviet)


I would really like Saper to attack here. Finger crossed.



(btw something is wrong with servers, i really struggle to upload files)




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RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 7/11/2012 1:59:18 AM   
KamilS

 

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T37 OOB (Soviet)


February casualties:

Axis - 270k
Soviet - 394k




Overall blizzard:

OOB change:

German: - 286k and - 354 AFV
Soviet: - 36k and - 1025 AFV



Losses:

German: 1005k (246k captured, 128k killed)
Soviet: 1,310k (30k captured, 691k killed)


Destroyed German units:

divisions: 10 (2 mot, 6 inf, 1 mtn, 1 air)

regiments: 55 (1 mot, 54 inf)




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< Message edited by Kamil -- 7/11/2012 2:00:53 AM >

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RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 7/11/2012 2:12:31 AM   
Peltonx


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You destoried 25 total divisions?

If so his morale is in the dumps and he is toast. His got 3.2 million men, but they are toothless.

You lost allot of men, but so what. Not as good as TDV blizzard, but you have destoried his morale.

There are allot of trade offs in the game. Most poeple don't take the risks. The risk is high, but the reward is high also.

You risked allot, but the pay off is the German army is crippled.



< Message edited by Pelton -- 7/11/2012 2:20:45 AM >


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RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 7/11/2012 2:21:10 AM   
KamilS

 

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quote:

Pelton

If so his morale is in the dumps and his toast. His got 3.2 million men, but they are toothless.




Depends how many units were stationed in winter quarters, but I think his panzers should be in good condition.

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RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 7/11/2012 2:28:23 AM   
Peltonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kamil

quote:

Pelton

If so his morale is in the dumps and his toast. His got 3.2 million men, but they are toothless.




Depends how many units were stationed in winter quarters, but I think his panzers should be in good condition.


If they were near the front they will be weak.

The back bone of the German army is the infantry and you have crippled it. He will have allot of trouble doing much until June.

You will recover quicker then him. His morale can't recover unless he wins battles by design.

You could probably start marching west before the end of the yr, but I would wait until January. Some of his tanks will still pack a punch.

Very good job on your blizzard


< Message edited by Pelton -- 7/11/2012 2:29:16 AM >


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RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 7/11/2012 2:52:51 AM   
Harrybanana

 

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I am playing Saper as well with him the GHC and me the SHC. I think he leaned a lot in our game (which is currently in turn 95) which he used against Kamil. In particular he ran a better 41 offensive against Kamil than he did me. He is a very good player. His one failing, IMHO, is that he doesn't retreat as much as he should in the blizzard with the result that he allows too many units to be surrounded and destroyed. He explained it to me that he stood his ground because it was more "historical". Very true and very honourable of him. But "history" didn't stop me as the Russians from retreating whenever I thought he was in a position to surround me. Guess I'm not as honourable. But he is an excellent opponent and I would recommend him to all Russian players looking for a challenge.

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RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 7/11/2012 3:59:32 AM   
notenome

 

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I am absolutely amazed at the number of German units you managed to destroy. That's 28 divisions worth of troops man! It's incredible!

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RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 7/11/2012 5:00:07 AM   
Flaviusx


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A staggering butcher's bill for 1941. That's an early Stalingrad right there in losses. He hung on way too long around Rostov and Tula and it cost him dearly. But I wonder if you went overboard on those merges.

< Message edited by Flaviusx -- 7/11/2012 5:01:45 AM >


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RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 7/11/2012 9:52:18 AM   
Peltonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana

I am playing Saper as well with him the GHC and me the SHC. I think he leaned a lot in our game (which is currently in turn 95) which he used against Kamil. In particular he ran a better 41 offensive against Kamil than he did me. He is a very good player. His one failing, IMHO, is that he doesn't retreat as much as he should in the blizzard with the result that he allows too many units to be surrounded and destroyed. He explained it to me that he stood his ground because it was more "historical". Very true and very honourable of him. But "history" didn't stop me as the Russians from retreating whenever I thought he was in a position to surround me. Guess I'm not as honourable. But he is an excellent opponent and I would recommend him to all Russian players looking for a challenge.


Honourable and historical, but the blizzard is not reflexive of history in wite in general. The hole supply system thingy.

I beleive he could stand forward better if he used a little better tactics, atleast against 90% of the russian players.

Kamil is the 2nd best blizzard player I faced out of the 20+ peeps I have played against.

After supplies morale is huge for the German side.

Retreating 2 hexes a turn starting the last turn of snow through the month of December is the only way to make it through the blizzard vs everyone other then TDV. Your going to lose 50+ vs him no matter what.

His summer was very good, but his infantry morale is smashed. So he is toast, unless Kamil makes a mistake.

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RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 7/11/2012 12:59:41 PM   
KamilS

 

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quote:

Pelton

His summer was very good, but his infantry morale is smashed. So he is toast, unless Kamil makes a mistake.




Unfortunately he is not in as bad shape as I thought and I started to pay price for my miscalculation.

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RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 7/11/2012 2:30:20 PM   
Walloc

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton


quote:

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana

I am playing Saper as well with him the GHC and me the SHC. I think he leaned a lot in our game (which is currently in turn 95) which he used against Kamil. In particular he ran a better 41 offensive against Kamil than he did me. He is a very good player. His one failing, IMHO, is that he doesn't retreat as much as he should in the blizzard with the result that he allows too many units to be surrounded and destroyed. He explained it to me that he stood his ground because it was more "historical". Very true and very honourable of him. But "history" didn't stop me as the Russians from retreating whenever I thought he was in a position to surround me. Guess I'm not as honourable. But he is an excellent opponent and I would recommend him to all Russian players looking for a challenge.



quote:


Honourable and historical, but the blizzard is not reflexive of history in wite in general. The hole supply system thingy.


No one can argue honourable as its a subjective title, not that i think many disagree with in this case.
As to historical its more debateble. Yes they had an no withdraw order overall.
Then there are the realities on lower levels. Historicly at points the frontline was pushed back what is up too 5 -10 hexes in game. If there never would have been any tactical/opertional withdrawls the chances that as we know, no major formation was surrounded and surrender seems implausible.
Obviously and we know that withdrawls in fact happened so i see no problem with germans doing it in game and not breaking historicy.

Apart from that my personal opinion is that as there are no tactical or operational breaks on how players use their counters. This gives both players the ability to change things in playing better/using tactics that the game provide. The opposite side IMO have to adjust to that.
So for example if russian side uses tactics like attacking/forcing back every other counter to ZoC out axis units in between there is nothing unhistorical in withdrawing to avoid that. Its just adjusting to how the game mechanics are. Im aware ppls opinion on stuff like ofc differs.

quote:


I beleive he could stand forward better if he used a little better tactics, atleast against 90% of the russian players.


While not very honorble to critize some one who cant speak up. Ill have to agree with Pelton and Flav. The surrenders here were avoidble, but it would have required to give up more terrain and doing some pre strictly necesarry withdrawls. Not to take away from Kamils play in creating such situasions.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

< Message edited by Walloc -- 7/11/2012 6:30:07 PM >

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RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 7/11/2012 4:20:25 PM   
HITMAN202


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So with 28 destroyed division, what does the computer do ??? I understand that another division unit replaces each one as a "shell", but how is each new division filled with troops ??? How long does it take to get their TOE > 50 ??? What is the new unit's morale after it is replenished ???

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RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 7/11/2012 6:42:30 PM   
randallw

 

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I believe the men/equipment of rebuilt German divisions simply comes from the pool. Perhaps two turns to get back over 50% TOE, and three-four turns to be full strength?

The morale is slightly randomized, based on the national morale at the time and some dice roll.

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RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 7/18/2012 11:36:42 PM   
KamilS

 

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T38 south (German)



Thanks to my withdrawal along the whole length of the front Saper wasn't able to do me any harm.




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RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 7/18/2012 11:44:37 PM   
KamilS

 

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T38 center (Soviet)


Next turn I should be safe here.




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RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 7/18/2012 11:46:27 PM   
KamilS

 

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T38 south (Soviet)



I try to maintain sensible distance between my and German units and reinforce Soviet defenses east of Kharkov.




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RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 7/19/2012 12:48:16 AM   
KamilS

 

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T39 center (German)


No attacks here.




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RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 7/19/2012 12:49:40 AM   
KamilS

 

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T39 south (German)


Situation east of Kharkov can become serious, so I need to bring reinforcements there.




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RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 7/23/2012 12:34:09 AM   
KamilS

 

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T39 center (Soviet)



Steady withdrawal to more secure position continues.




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RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 7/23/2012 12:35:31 AM   
KamilS

 

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T39 south (Soviet)


With every passing turn situation here becomes safer.




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< Message edited by Kamil -- 7/23/2012 12:36:01 AM >

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RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 7/23/2012 12:47:53 AM   
KamilS

 

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T40 center (German)


Not the most successful turn in the center.

4 infantry divisions were surrounded. They are understrength. but battle hardened units (One has morale of 58). It will be small but annoying loss.




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< Message edited by Kamil -- 7/23/2012 12:48:06 AM >

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RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 7/23/2012 12:50:05 AM   
KamilS

 

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T40 south (German)


Same old in the south - steady advance of German army.




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